Eliteism in Audax

[Wobbly]

If there is an air of superiority in some yacf postings, it certainly isn't reflected in behaviour  (in deed and in word) at events.

That.

[hellymedic]

Audax is so elitist that I renewed my membership for yet another 5 years a while back, which will bring me up to 25 years' membership.
I was a full value rider and never did even a flat 200km in less than 11½ hours.
I managed a Super Randonneur series or three when I was young, fit and foolish.
I have almost never been 'done down' in AUK.
Which made a refreshing change.

If you look at the postings on the Western Isles thread, for example, you'll not see a hint of elitism; there's gratitude, appreciation pragmatism and more.

Maybe elitism is a subjective problem.

[Exit Stage Left]

Elitism and sport is an interesting area for the demographic that does Audax. I missed the 'non-competitive' era. Sport wasn't taken seriously by anyone but the sports teachers at our County Grammar. But it was avowedly competitive, and was a bit of a hangover from previous times, like religion. What mattered were O and A level results. Not being good at sports wasn't a big deal.

At about 35 I thought I should do some exercise, and gravitated to cycling. Time Trials were good, because it was target-led, structured, and you didn't get dropped, unlike club runs. Heather liked to cycle too, but didn't like time trialling, so Audax worked well as a shared pursuit. She'd been 'sporty' at her County Grammar, so liked all the cards and stuff a bit more.

I'm more of a back-row in the class kind of guy, not that bothered about results, so Audax works for me on that level. What it means to those educated in comprehensives, and brought up with a non-competitive philosophy I don't know.

Is this thread more about Elitism than Audax? It has been said that the present you got for passing the 11 Plus  was a bike, which was useful, as school was then a long way away. That likely explained the background of some past Audaxers, and their horror of boasting about their achievements, which was seen as a very bad thing.

[Peter]

I think we're in a bit of danger of putting chrometop off and I know that's not anyone's intention.  The original post doesn't say anywhere that elitist behaviour was actually evidenced on rides.  It was a comment on some posts that had been browsed.  I think probably elitism was the wrong word and I think we all know what was meant and that to a certain extent there is something in what was said.  Bragging goes on.  Some people see it as a carrot, plenty don't.  But the events themselves are full of really nice encouraging people, both riders and organisers and helpers.  We shouldn't be  dismissive of chrometop's view and I'm anxious that he/she hasn't felt able to respond.  I hope it's not because they feel wary of responses.

Peter

[Delph Cyclist]

Or even degregated

I didn't understand that

[rob]

A discussion at work the other day concluded that it doesn't matter what your branch of endurance sport is, someone will have ridden, run, swum, rode or walked further, faster, in more extreme conditions or in fancy dress than you.

I do, however, believe that a full value rider can become faster through training, nutrition and better organisation.   

[billplumtree]

An extraordinarily well-balanced post, Chris and not at all the sort of thing I expect from an incorrigible cynic.

I'm slightly less cynical on Sundays.

   Is that a religious observance thing?

[Somnolent]

An extraordinarily well-balanced post, Chris and not at all the sort of thing I expect from an incorrigible cynic.

I'm slightly less cynical on Sundays.

   Is that a religious observance thing?

Nah, fboab makes up for it with extra helpings of cynicism on Sundays. 

[Ray 6701]

Oi. Lazy fuckers at the back.  Stop eating so many cakes and dribbling piss on your sandals.

 

Brilliant 

[Karla]

I've taken audax reverse-elitism to its logical conclusion by not doing any audaxes this year.

[mattc]

A discussion at work the other day concluded that it doesn't matter what your branch of endurance sport is, someone will have ridden, run, swum, rode or walked further, faster, in more extreme conditions or in fancy dress than you.

I do, however, believe that a full value rider can become faster through training, nutrition and better organisation.

You need to know a lot about "a full value rider" to make that statement. I'd amend it with something like
most / probably / many
etc

Remember, all sweeping generalizations are bad!

[Google hasnt found me the graph I want, so this one sorta makes the point:

[caerau]

Remember, all sweeping generalizations are bad!

ALL?  Including that one? 

[rob]

And, of course, that 'full value rider' has to want to get faster.   If they're happy at that pace and don't fancy more sleep, longer meal stops and getting home earlier then that's fine.

Are we allowed to put 'slow' rather than 'full value' or is that not being excellent ?

I was slow, now I'm not as slow but would not consider myself fast.

[T42]

Plod, trudge and grind would best describe my performance.  I get my full value out of every event I enter by using the available time to the limit. 'Tis a fine art, sir, and not for the weak of spirit.

[Ningishzidda]

Audax is so opposed to elitism, they have a five stage categorisation system for entrants.

1/ Plebs on hi-ten.
2/ Squires on Alum.
3/ Gents on Mang-moly.
4/ Lords on Titanium.
5/ The aristocracy on Raleigh Sojourns.


This is so you all know your place you plebs. 

[Jacques]

I sometimes think that the faster riders seem to want to give "slower/full value" riders lots of advice on how to get round quicker whether they want it or not.

I'm sure some do but speaking as a full valuer, I get round most long rides just safely within the limit. I don't lose out on sleep, I eat like a maniac at controls & any other chance I get between. I generally plan to get full value because I love being out there on my bike & taking my time & relaxing. If I wanted to be faster so that I could get home earlier then maybe I would ask myself why I am doing it in the first place. Just because some of us arrive near the end please don't feel sorry for us, it may be intentional.

[rob]

I sometimes think that the faster riders seem to want to give "slower/full value" riders lots of advice on how to get round quicker whether they want it or not.

Oh yeah that gets to me.

No I wouldn't be better off with a GPS......
No I wouldn't be better off with gears.....

[Ningishzidda]

“Full value rider?”

Is that someone who wishes for the maximum enjoyment for their money?

Is that someone who wishes for the least dissatisfaction for their money?

Is that someone who gets more than they expected from the event?

[mattc]

Remember, all sweeping generalizations are bad!

ALL?  Including that one? 

Probably.

[The Seldom Killer]

I get it, I really do. There's a lot of talk about people getting faster, going longer, climbing higher, the optimum positions that it all seems as if they're telling you you're not doing it right if you go out as you are and just have a damn good ride. I think it's a bit misconstrued though. A lot of this is people just talking, perhaps a little myopically, about what makes them feel happy at the ending. The perception that they think they're on top and they're looking down at you isn't quite accurate though. There's as much glory in bringing up the rear as there is in finishing early as long as it puts a smile on your face and pretty much everyone here knows it. Don't worry about other entrants talking about what gets them off down the road, it doesn't mean they think you aren't adequate.

It's not the size but what you do with it if you'll forgive the crude metaphor.

[caerau]

I dunno about myopia but this thread is definitely too much navel gazing

[Phil W]

I dunno about myopia but this thread is definitely too much navel gazing

Well, when you've got a big navel....

[Somnolent]

I sometimes think that the faster riders seem to want to give "slower/full value" riders lots of advice on how to get round quicker whether they want it or not.

I'm sure some do but speaking as a full valuer, I get round most long rides just safely within the limit. I don't lose out on sleep, I eat like a maniac at controls & any other chance I get between. I generally plan to get full value because I love being out there on my bike & taking my time & relaxing. If I wanted to be faster so that I could get home earlier then maybe I would ask myself why I am doing it in the first place. Just because some of us arrive near the end please don't feel sorry for us, it may be intentional.

 

[Nethypete]

A discussion at work the other day concluded that it doesn't matter what your branch of endurance sport is, someone will have ridden, run, swum, rode or walked further, faster, in more extreme conditions or in fancy dress than you.

Just wondering, has anyone ridden an Audax with an ironing board? Not particularly elitist or relevant to this thread but it would amuse me to know it had been done.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

A discussion at work the other day concluded that it doesn't matter what your branch of endurance sport is, someone will have ridden, run, swum, rode or walked further, faster, in more extreme conditions or in fancy dress than you.

Just wondering, has anyone ridden an Audax with an ironing board? Not particularly elitist or relevant to this thread but it would amuse me to know it had been done.

I haven't.  But I did race a hill climb with my Lumicycle lights proudly strapped to my equally unnecessary tri-bars.