Author Topic: "filtering"  (Read 11958 times)

"filtering"
« on: 03 August, 2012, 03:53:49 pm »
I thought it more appropriate to start a thread on this specifically, even if it related to current stories.

When I started cycling with a club, in Derbyshire in the 60s, it was considered very poor form to try to over/under-take stationary or very slow cars/ trucks etc at lights etc. You held your position in the queue, and moved off with the traffic.

Is it just a London/city thing, or do many cyclists now see doing this as acceptable?

I can see how it can have fatal consequences when a cyclist creeps up the side of a turning vehicle, and I would never go alongside a vehicle within, say 5 vehicles of a junction. In fact, I would hold position in the queue.

I can also see how a careful driver, who has patiently waited to safely overtake a cyclist, gets mightily pee'd off if said cyclist creeps up the inside at the next lights, meaning the whole procedure has to be repeated.

Jaded

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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #1 on: 03 August, 2012, 03:58:37 pm »
When I started cycling with a club, in Derbyshire in the 60s, it was considered very poor form to try to over/under-take stationary or very slow cars/ trucks etc at lights etc. You held your position in the queue, and moved off with the traffic.

It still is poor form, it is just considered more acceptable the closer to London you get.

Occasionally it is merited, but most of the time I see it in London it is simply "Me me me" behaviour, akin to speeding.

Cyclists come from the same pool of people as motorists so not surprising, I guess.
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jogler

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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #2 on: 03 August, 2012, 04:06:05 pm »
I reckon kerbside cycle lanes terminating in ASL boxes encourage filtering at lights.

In addition the driving standards,traffic volume ,car ownership demographics & other considerations all contribute to a driving culture that is now very different to that of the '60s

Human nature being what it is,there will always be someone who wants to be at the front & someone who objects to those not waiting their turn.

Kim

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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #3 on: 03 August, 2012, 04:22:41 pm »
I reckon kerbside cycle lanes terminating in ASL boxes encourage filtering at lights.

To be fair, I wouldn't class passing stationary traffic in another lane (even a dubious cycle facility) as 'filtering'.  Though you're probably right in that it encourages the practice even when there aren't feeder lanes.

It's not something I do an awful lot of.  I spend the bulk of my time riding bikes that don't filter well (due to lack of articulation or wider than average bars), so tend to just queue with the traffic by default.  It's more useful in London where traffic not really flowing (rather than just being stopped by lights) is more common.

OTOH, I don't have a problem with other people doing it, if it's done safely.

Rhys W

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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #4 on: 03 August, 2012, 04:30:39 pm »
I agree, ASLs encourage single riders to filter up the inside. I have no problem with this most of the time, if we don't occupy the ASL there are plenty of motorists who will. On a group ride there's no point and I'll hold my place but it spoils it a bit if 2 or 3 filter up ahead.

I was riding back on my own through Cardiff after a club ride recently and I stopped in front of 3-4 cars at a red light - no point filtering through, there was no ASL and these lights stay red for a long time, nobody was going anywhere for a few minutes. I heard the driver of the car behind me ask something in a loud voice - sounded like asking for directions so I turned round to see if I could help. The irate driver was actually asking "Is it legal for you to ride in the middle of the road?"  :facepalm:

Re: "filtering"
« Reply #5 on: 03 August, 2012, 04:40:27 pm »
Is it just a London/city thing, or do many cyclists now see doing this as acceptable?
I see it as perfectly acceptable, if done sensibly.

I prefer filtering on the outside because drivers are more likely to expect to be passed on that side, and don't tend to drop passengers off in the middle of the road. It's also easier to predict a right turn than a "sod waiting in this I'm taking a shortcut down the next left turn". There's often a stretch of very slow moving traffic, heading out of town in rush hour, which means I can often use the comparatively empty other lane to overtake, when the cycle of the traffic lights permit. This is obviously better as it can be done much faster, safely out of the door zone.

I hate waiting for pretty much anything, so if I can avoid it, I do. I understand some drivers get annoyed with bikes passing them, and when I'm stuck in traffic in a car, I wish that I was cycling instead.

Biggsy

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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #6 on: 03 August, 2012, 04:56:41 pm »
I have no qualms about filtering on the outside or inside anywhere when I judge I can do it safely, and I do it a great deal, but I'm perfectly happy to stop and wait at real danger spots.

Too many of the cyclists I see in London just aren't prepared to even vary their speed, let alone stop and start.  It's partly ignorance, which we can do something about through education.  More woryingly, the rest is down to a lack of self respect.
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John Henry

Re: "filtering"
« Reply #7 on: 03 August, 2012, 05:08:56 pm »
There's precious little correlation between 'presence of ASL' and 'safe to move to the front' and vice versa.

I don't make it a point of principle either way. If I want to and it's safe, I will... But normally I'm not in a hurry, so I don't. Sometimes I am tempted to do it when some twunt has overtaken me 30 yards before a queue at a red light, just to make a point...  ;)

ian

Re: "filtering"
« Reply #8 on: 03 August, 2012, 05:38:33 pm »
If I'm moving slowly and its safe, I'll filter on the inside. If I were moving fast, or felt that I could be trapped by left turning vehicles, I'd take the outside instead.

Eccentrica Gallumbits

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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #9 on: 03 August, 2012, 05:47:47 pm »
If I know the junction, know the light sequence and I'm confident that it's safe, I'll filter on either side, but never on the left of a long vehicle. If there's a long vehicle ahead of me in a queue, I'm quite happy to wait behind it, preferably far enough back and to the side that I can see its mirrors.
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mcshroom

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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #10 on: 03 August, 2012, 06:25:32 pm »
^^^
This

The only exception is I commute along a rural A-road with a 1.5m wide hard shoulder. On there bikes use the HS and cars use the road and we leave each other alone, whoever is going faster.
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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #11 on: 03 August, 2012, 07:17:20 pm »
I never do. At least, I can't remember when I last did.

O- yes I can, 'Great' Yarmouth. Chris took us down the outside and I followed- I had to, we were on the tandem.

It's not a moral thing, more a mindset thing. I want to be treated as traffic, I act as traffic.

If I lived in London I'd ride buses, not bikes. It scares the living shit out of me.

Basil

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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #12 on: 03 August, 2012, 07:22:27 pm »
I don't make it a point of principle either way. If I want to and it's safe, I will... But normally I'm not in a hurry, so I don't. Sometimes I am tempted to do it when some twunt has overtaken me 30 yards before a queue at a red light, just to make a point...  ;)

and this ^^^
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Biggsy

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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #13 on: 03 August, 2012, 07:33:20 pm »
Don't forget your helmet if you're going to use London buses!  I seriously seriously feel more vulnerable standing in one of those jerky bastards than when filtering past one on my bike.
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Cudzoziemiec

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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #14 on: 03 August, 2012, 08:00:19 pm »
I would say ASLs and kerbside cycle lanes have legitimised, rather than encouraged, filtering on the left. People have always done it as long as I can remember - admittedly that doesn't go back to club runs in the 60s, but small town in the 80s, so it's not just a London or city thing. So these lanes have put an official stamp of approval on what people were doing anyway - but probably this seeming approval is unintentional. I tend to think the access lane to the ASL should be on the off-side - then cyclists would filter like motorbikes, where there is more space anyway as well as better visibility to all drivers, not just HGVs and buses, and we'd be more traffic-like while still getting to the front.
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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #15 on: 03 August, 2012, 10:30:43 pm »
I think another aspect that encourages filtering in London is the low traffic speed. On the occasions that I commuted in anything approaching rush hour traffic, if I filtered past cars to get to the front at traffic lights, the chances are that they'd never catch me up.

Filtering in a small town, you're more likely to have the cars overtake you pretty much immediately - which is pointless and aggravating to everyone.

I'll filter or not depending upon traffic levels - if I expect to be able to get a clean getaway and not be overtaken, I'll filter. If I expect to be overtaken, I'll sit in my position in the queue - usually in the middle of the lane, claiming my space (and also allowing those who choose to filter to do so).

It's something that irritates me sometimes on audaxes - being in a group of riders in the middle of nowhere as we approach a queue of traffic at lights (such as roadworks), and many of the group will filter to the front. Pointless, as once past the roadworks it's a 60mph limit and those cars will then be trying to do an overtake.

Manotea

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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #16 on: 03 August, 2012, 11:05:01 pm »
Cud & Matth have it, ISTM.

I've most always worked my way to the front of queuing traffic (as does most every motorbike & scooter); then again, I'm a Londoner.

Re: "filtering"
« Reply #17 on: 03 August, 2012, 11:08:55 pm »
In most big cities the point of cycling is to get through traffic faster than a car could.. If you don't filter what is the point of riding a bike?

Jaded

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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #18 on: 03 August, 2012, 11:13:50 pm »
In most big cities the point of cycling is to get through traffic faster than a car could.. If you don't filter what is the point of riding a bike?

Fitness, price, flexibility, blah blah.

If you don't speed in town, what's the point of having a car?
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: "filtering"
« Reply #19 on: 03 August, 2012, 11:20:31 pm »
I can also see how a careful driver, who has patiently waited to safely overtake a cyclist, gets mightily pee'd off if said cyclist creeps up the inside at the next lights, meaning the whole procedure has to be repeated.

On the flip side, if in a long stretch of traffic lights a careful cyclist, who had filtered carefullly, could get pee'd off by a car driver insisting on overtaking just before hitting the next queue of stopped cars and causing the whole filtering procedure to be repeated.

I think it just has to be judged on the situation in hand. Sometimes filtering is valid, other times not so much.

Personally I filter/overtake if I expect to make good headway (and if it's safe) and just join the queue if it's a leapfroggy situation.
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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #20 on: 03 August, 2012, 11:21:54 pm »
Filtering is a perfectly acceptable technique on a motorcycle.
It's expected.

I can't see why it's precluded for bicycles.
However, that does not over-ride the need to Not Put Yourself in Danger.
( On either type of cycle.)

So, filter where it is safe to do so.
Otherwise, hold back.
Doesn't sound too hard.

Jaded

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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #21 on: 03 August, 2012, 11:29:41 pm »
Filtering is a perfectly acceptable technique on a motorcycle.
It's expected.

I can't see why it's precluded for bicycles.

I rarely see motorbikes filtering on the LHS.
It is simpler than it looks.

Feanor

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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #22 on: 03 August, 2012, 11:39:34 pm »
Indeed.
I would not do that on a m/c, and would only do it on a cycle if I could assure my safety.

Since that would result in a 'fail' 90% of the time, I'd usually only filter in the LHS when the traffic was firmly stopped.
If it was beginning to move, I'd place myself well in front of a vehicle, where I was visible, make eye contact, and stop.
I'd assume the vehicle in front had not seen me, and may left-turn, so I'd not move any further forward untill it had stopped again, or it was plain to me he was not turning left.


Jaded

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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #23 on: 03 August, 2012, 11:44:31 pm »
That's pretty much how I filter on a cycle.
It is simpler than it looks.

Feanor

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Re: "filtering"
« Reply #24 on: 03 August, 2012, 11:48:53 pm »
I need to admit that my cycling experience of filtering in big city traffic is rather minimal...

Sheep and Deer are a more likely problem for me...