Author Topic: Stem length change and lower back pain when pushing hard  (Read 3234 times)

Stem length change and lower back pain when pushing hard
« on: 14 August, 2016, 02:01:41 pm »
The obvious answer is pay £200+ and get a professional bike fit but I just don't see the value (and can't really afford it).

So now onto my point.

I've been riding with a 100mm 6 degree stem which has always felt a fraction too short (and you could see the front hub). I've replaced with with a 110mm 7 degree stem which was comfy when I took it out for an hour and fine on a 180K ride apart from the last 15K where I was pushing hard to get home in time for dinner. Today I went out for a 100K ride and was fine apart from when the pace was being pushed up and I was putting in a lot of effort.

Should I return to my 100mm stem which I know doesn't cause me any pain, perverse with the longer stem or do something different?

Re: Stem length change and lower back pain when pushing hard
« Reply #1 on: 14 August, 2016, 02:58:46 pm »
The muscles of the lower back stabilise the pelvis when you're pushing hard. Any change towards a flat back means that there's less mechanical advantage. If you watch top-class TT riders from behind, you can see their back muscles flexing. When tired, their pelvis moves.

Your back will adapt, but will hurt while it does that. It's a truism that sit-ups will save a lot of money on a bike fit.

Re: Stem length change and lower back pain when pushing hard
« Reply #2 on: 14 August, 2016, 03:35:26 pm »
I simply can't believe that a 1degree change in stem angle would make much difference, apart from a psychological difference.
A bit more sun, different wind angle, warmer/longer jersey; those will have more effect, IMO.

Doing planks, stretches, yoga and pilates will be of more value than fiddling with minute changes to bike parts.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Stem length change and lower back pain when pushing hard
« Reply #3 on: 14 August, 2016, 04:46:10 pm »
^^^

(Disclaimer: what follows is pure anecdata)

I've been tempted to try a bikefit but I find my position on the bike is constantly changing, depending on the terrain, weather conditions, how fresh I feel or simply my mood, so it's really hard to see how any specific setup will deliver significant benefits over any other. It's all so marginal and variable. If I was a racer or tester looking for that extra 1% then I can see how it would be worthwhile but as an AUK it doesn't seem terribly relevant.

Re: Stem length change and lower back pain when pushing hard
« Reply #4 on: 14 August, 2016, 05:01:58 pm »
So the response basically is.

Harden the fuck up and do some exercises to improve your core strength.

That's the response I was hoping for.

Re: Stem length change and lower back pain when pushing hard
« Reply #5 on: 15 August, 2016, 07:23:55 am »
Different stack height between the two stems?

Re: Stem length change and lower back pain when pushing hard
« Reply #6 on: 15 August, 2016, 08:00:40 am »
Lower back pain can be caused by something as simple as saddle angle - having the saddle nose too high. 
Move Faster and Bake Things

Re: Stem length change and lower back pain when pushing hard
« Reply #7 on: 15 August, 2016, 11:28:53 am »
Back pain can be caused by only owning one bicycle and not riding enough miles on it.

Re: Stem length change and lower back pain when pushing hard
« Reply #8 on: 15 August, 2016, 12:07:51 pm »
The obvious answer is pay £200+ and get a professional bike fit but I just don't see the value (and can't really afford it).

So now onto my point.

I've been riding with a 100mm 6 degree stem which has always felt a fraction too short (and you could see the front hub). I've replaced with with a 110mm 7 degree stem which was comfy when I took it out for an hour and fine on a 180K ride apart from the last 15K where I was pushing hard to get home in time for dinner. Today I went out for a 100K ride and was fine apart from when the pace was being pushed up and I was putting in a lot of effort.

Should I return to my 100mm stem which I know doesn't cause me any pain, perverse with the longer stem or do something different?

What's the reason for feeling the 100mm is too short? I presume you are quoting the "rule" about seeing the hub which is nonsense anyway. If you want to try a longer stem, I suggest getting one that puts the bars 5mm further forward which is as small as you can go whilst making a difference.

Re: Stem length change and lower back pain when pushing hard
« Reply #9 on: 15 August, 2016, 12:19:53 pm »
Back pain can be caused by only owning one bicycle and not riding enough miles on it.

Pain in the arse?  Obviously but my observation:

Lower back pain can be caused by something as simple as saddle angle - having the saddle nose too high. 

is based on 30+ years of cycle commuting, 2 Raids Pyrennean, many cycle tours and heaven knows how many miles.  I own far too many bicycles, 2 in France and 4 in York.

Thanks to spending a lot of my time doing building work I also have a very strong back and am very fit indeed.  But I am still very careful to get the angle of my saddles right!
Move Faster and Bake Things

Re: Stem length change and lower back pain when pushing hard
« Reply #10 on: 15 August, 2016, 02:12:59 pm »
Lower back pain ‘Pushing hard’ in the last 15km of a 180km might not be the spinal muscles. It might be you're aching for a slash.

Dave_C

  • Trying to get rid of my belly... and failing!
Re: Stem length change and lower back pain when pushing hard
« Reply #11 on: 15 August, 2016, 05:14:41 pm »
What in your back is hurting?

personally I suffer occasionally from muscle pain on my left side which I put down to pushing to big a gear. I've tried upping my cadence, which takes concentration as my default is not to spin which works. My new problem it keeping my speed sensible. When I get into a rhythm I speed up which is great for getting to the next control fast but my knees hurt the next day!
Suppose we all have our problems.
@DaveCrampton < wot a twit.
http://veloviewer.com/athlete/421683/

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Stem length change and lower back pain when pushing hard
« Reply #12 on: 16 August, 2016, 08:18:20 am »
Whilst we're talking about backs... something I've noticed is that when I transition from seriously unfit to fit and start to put more  power through the bike for longer periods , holding a steady'forward'  position on the bike, I go through a period of excrutiating pain high up between the lower neck and shoulder blades. It feels like a trapped nerve but isn't; there's no specific locus to the pain, nothing to put ones finger on, as it were. As I get fitter I work through it and after a few weeks it goes away, so I've put this down to some little used muscles buried in my back that dont otherwise see the light of day complaining.

As a fixer, I find huge (well , huge-ish :) ) amounts of power/tension go through the lower back, especially when climbing in the saddle, and that's somewhat analogous to TTing, as referenced above. ISTM the lower back is the fulcrum between the legs and hips which do all the work, and the upper body which stabilises the whole operation (hence the upper back issue referenced above). To counteract all this tension, I try and maintain a 'steady but relaxed' posture , and stand up and stretch out the back every now and then.

Again, as I get fitter I become more flexible/supple (and my stomach gets out the way) I'm able to hold a flatter position on the bike, which lengthens my upper body line. Aside from being more aero, I find that helps me focus on what my lower back, hips, and legs are doing.

Apols for the self analysis; I'm on family hols without bike...

Re: Stem length change and lower back pain when pushing hard
« Reply #13 on: 16 August, 2016, 11:28:46 am »
What in your back is hurting?

It's the bit directly above where your bum finishes and the pain is evenly spread across the back. Standing up and pedalling helps a bit as does backing off the pace and going a bit easier for a while.

This is what makes me think it's just not enough strength

Back pain can be caused by only owning one bicycle and not riding enough miles on it.

Two bikes and about 300-400K a week


What's the reason for feeling the 100mm is too short? I presume you are quoting the "rule" about seeing the hub which is nonsense anyway. If you want to try a longer stem, I suggest getting one that puts the bars 5mm further forward which is as small as you can go whilst making a difference.

Always felt a bit cramped and wanted a more stretched out agressive position

Re: Stem length change and lower back pain when pushing hard
« Reply #14 on: 16 August, 2016, 12:49:16 pm »
My back pain in a similar region was described by the physio as being the result of a huge imbalance between the powerful thighs and utterly feeble core.
I have a set of stretches and exercises to do and was pointed at pilates.
I'm a fervent believer that most 'bike fit' & 'bike comfort' issues are massively helped by losing excess weight (not that I've managed that this decade) & improving your core strength.

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: Stem length change and lower back pain when pushing hard
« Reply #15 on: 16 August, 2016, 01:55:18 pm »
What in your back is hurting?

personally I suffer occasionally from muscle pain on my left side which I put down to pushing to big a gear. I've tried upping my cadence, which takes concentration as my default is not to spin which works. My new problem it keeping my speed sensible. When I get into a rhythm I speed up which is great for getting to the next control fast but my knees hurt the next day!
Suppose we all have our problems.

Yes I get lower back pain early season when I go out and climb too many hills
After a while my body sorts itself out

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: Stem length change and lower back pain when pushing hard
« Reply #16 on: 16 August, 2016, 01:56:52 pm »
I simply can't believe that a 1degree change in stem angle would make much difference, apart from a psychological difference.
A bit more sun, different wind angle, warmer/longer jersey; those will have more effect, IMO.

Doing planks, stretches, yoga and pilates will be of more value than fiddling with minute changes to bike parts.

I've found that a 10mm difference in stem length can make a difference with comfort on longer rides.  I tend to get the ache in the shoulders rather than the lower back
however

Re: Stem length change and lower back pain when pushing hard
« Reply #17 on: 16 August, 2016, 02:19:13 pm »
My back pain in a similar region was described by the physio as being the result of a huge imbalance between the powerful thighs and utterly feeble core.

I do have the thighs of Beyonce on steroids and the core strength of a life long programmer, so that could be it

I'm a fervent believer that most 'bike fit' & 'bike comfort' issues are massively helped by losing excess weight (not that I've managed that this decade) & improving your core strength.

I'm 30Kg down from my starting point and it's made a vast difference. Only 10Kg more to get to where I'll be moderately happy and 15Kg to my goal weight.