Weight Loss Discussion Thread

[hellymedic]

Relieved to read PD's sugar is down. 9 is not good as a long-term figure but you're doing the right thing seeing your doctor.

[crowriver]

A good dieter needs Will Power and Perseverance.

Amen, sister! Hallelujah! Praise be, etc.

We all know what we have to do. Alas, Satan in the form of cakes, biccies, sweeties and pastries can lead the weak astray. The path of righteousness is not an easy one to tread, many temptations lie in wait for the unwary.

[hellymedic]

A good dieter needs Will Power and Perseverance.

Amen, sister! Hallelujah! Praise be, etc.

We all know what we have to do. Alas, Satan in the form of cakes, biccies, sweeties and pastries can lead the weak astray. The path of righteousness is not an easy one to tread, many temptations lie in wait for the unwary.

Coming from an Orthodox Jewish background, I thought I'd put Religious Rules into eating habits and thought they'd be a good plan.

Before eating a meal wash hands and say Grace Before Meals.

Eat until you are satisfied not stuffed, then STOP.

Immediately after eating, say Grace After Meals.

Wash hands before handling computers (not a religious requirement but keeps your keyboard clean).

Always recite a Benediction before eating any snack.
Say a Benediction after eating a snack.

Do not let any food pass your lips without saying the correct Grace or Benediction, ever.

I'm sure religiously following these rules would reduce mindless eating and non-stop snacking...

More rules, followed by the ultra-orthodox:

Do not mix dairy foods with meat foods.

After eating meat (beef, lamb, poultry), do not eat anything containing milk for six hours. (Some people wait one hour, some wait three.)
After eating hard cheese, wait three hours before eating meat.

[citoyen]

Always recite a Benediction before eating any snack.
Say a Benediction after eating a snack.

That is brilliant. I may well adopt it.

[Wowbagger]

Well, buying my new bathroom scales may have ben a mistake. They say i weigh marginally more than the old, erratic, ones did at the top of their range!

[Oscar's dad]

Well, buying my new bathroom scales may have been a mistake. They say I weigh marginally more than the old, erratic, ones did at the top of their range!

Exactly what happened when we bought new, highly accurate scales.  Life is so unfair.

[mike]

MrsMike 'kindly' bought me some accurate ones for christmas.  As subtle hints go, it was quite a poor one..

[Wowbagger]

Well, buying my new bathroom scales may have been a mistake. They say I weigh marginally more than the old, erratic, ones did at the top of their range!

Exactly what happened when we bought new, highly accurate scales.  Life is so unfair.

To make matters worse, I put our two remaining bags of water softener salt onto the scales individually. Both bore the legend "25kg net" but, without taking the salt out of the bag, each weighed 24.5kg! Not only am I a lardier arse than I thought but I've also been short-changed by the salt company.

[Ningishzidda]

A good dieter needs Will Power and Perseverance.

Amen, sister! Hallelujah! Praise be, etc.

We all know what we have to do. Alas, Satan in the form of cakes, biccies, sweeties and pastries can lead the weak astray. The path of righteousness is not an easy one to tread, many temptations lie in wait for the unwary.

15 The Lord God took the man and put him on a bicycle to ride it and take care of it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of McVitie, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”


3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the cake isle, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”
4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your legs will be strong, and you will be like God, and ride up hills fast.”

[TimC]

5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your legs will be strong, and you will be like God, and ride up hills fast.”

Never worked for me.

[citoyen]

We've had a delivery of Krispy Kremes to the office today. I've managed to resist. I don't even like Krispy Kremes anyway, but it's still difficult.

M'colleague, who is trying to shed a few pounds in order to look good in a suit for a wedding he's attending in June, was moaning earlier about how going to the gym three times a week doesn't seem to make the slightest difference to his waistline. He's had at least two of the Krispy Kremes, as far as I am aware. As well as a bag of crisps with his substantial lunch.

I haven't done any exercise today (I don't count the short ride to the station) but even when you factor in his gym session, my net calorie intake today is probably about half of his. The level of denial going on there is staggering.

What can you say?

[Wowbagger]

That the level of denial going on there is staggering? 

[citoyen]

He would say: "No it isn't!" 

[crowriver]

was moaning earlier about how going to the gym three times a week doesn't seem to make the slightest difference to his waistline.

Exercise doesn't help you to lose weight, though it makes you fitter. Only calorie restriction in one form or another will work, ie. eating less.

Tell him that.

[Greenbank]

was moaning earlier about how going to the gym three times a week doesn't seem to make the slightest difference to his waistline.

Exercise doesn't help you to lose weight, though it makes you fitter. Only calorie restriction in one form or another will work, ie. eating less.

Exercise can help you lose weight, you just need to not over compensate with increased food intake when you increase the amount of exercise.

[citoyen]

Seriously, I don't think there's any point talking to him. He actually admitted to having three Krispy Kremes yesterday. And a bottle of wine with his dinner and cake for dessert last night.

By all accounts (from fellow colleagues who also go to the gym), his workouts aren't exactly what you'd call high-intensity either, so that's going to limit any beneficial effect (I'm guessing he did enough yesterday to work off at most 1-1.5 of those Krispy Kremes, but not all three).

Either he really doesn't see the connection between that and his failure to reduce his waistline, in which case, what can I possibly tell him that would make any difference? Or his heart isn't really in it. I suspect the latter - he seems quite happy with his lifestyle and the idea of looking good in a suit is a romantic fantasy.

I probably sound like I'm carping but that's not my intention. I'm just referring back to what I said earlier about being honest with yourself. He isn't honest with himself if he thinks his gym visits are worth the effort without making any other changes to his lifestyle.

[simonp]

I put new batteries in the scales last night (hence no weigh-in last week) and discovered that I wished I hadn't. 77.8kg. WTF?!

I blame the motorbike.

I was 2kg lighter this morning, though.

[crowriver]

Exercise can help you lose weight, you just need to not over compensate with increased food intake when you increase the amount of exercise.

I think that is an oft repeated myth.

Certain kinds of exercise can help burn fat* but what this mainly does is convert some fat into muscle. That won't necessarily lead to sustained weight loss, though one may observe some loss effects immediately after exercise due to dehydration.

Reducing calorie intake is the only way towards sustained weight loss and fat burning. The amount of work your muscles need to do to burn off the equivalent of one doughnut is quite formidable.

*though they need to be pretty intense and pretty extended to do so.

[citoyen]

As we've established over and again in this discussion, it's a bit more complicated than calories in vs calories out (even if you are able to measure the figures accurately).

However, when the discrepancy between the two figures is very heavily weighted in favour of "calories in" (as a diet majoring in Krispy Kremes, wine, crisps and cake will be), that rather simplifies matters.

And it doesn't help if the dieter is in denial about their calorific intake.

[crowriver]

As we've established over and again in this discussion, it's a bit more complicated than calories in vs calories out (even if you are able to measure the figures accurately).

Yes, it's an oversimplification, but then so is believing that exercise will lead to weight loss. It might, but there are other factors to consider before exercise helps a lot.

[geraldc]

Surely we should let our weight loss results do the talking!

[Chris S]

As we've established over and again in this discussion, it's a bit more complicated than calories in vs calories out (even if you are able to measure the figures accurately).

Yes, it's an oversimplification, but then so is believing that exercise will lead to weight loss. It might, but there are other factors to consider before exercise helps a lot.

Gary Taubes has some nice ways of explaining how the whole Calories In/Out thing is missing the point. Fat people get fat because they eat more than they consume - true, but irrelevant. You don't say "Children become bigger as they get older, because they overeat", though it's undoubtedly true. The point is, they're driven to "overeat" by hormones, because they're growing. Equally, hormones will largely "decide" how our Calories In are partitioned once inside, and it's that process we need to influence (as far as we can, given our genetic "lot") if we want to stay lean, or lose adipose tissue.

Doing daft amounts of exercise might help to achieve that - exercise fires up the metabolism we're told, and improves insulin sensitivity, thereby lowering blood sugar. But by and large it's bloody hard work, almost certainly unsustainable, and just as likely to make you hungry and head for the fridge.

I'm pretty sure the Krispy Kreme and Wine diet, whilst probably quite popular, wouldn't trigger any desirable hormonal changes.

[hellymedic]

You don't say "Children become bigger as they get older, because they overeat", though it's undoubtedly true.

What?!
Children become bigger because they are growing.
They continue to grow for a while even if starved.
Not all growing children become fat, whatever their hormones.

Some adults and some children get fat. The reasons for this fatness are multiple and may get discussed in circles until the internet blows up.
Some may take issue if I say they get fat because their consumption exceeds their needs; most won't.
Many will question why consumption exceeds needs.
Again the answers are complex.

[L CC]

You don't say "Children become bigger as they get older, because they overeat", though it's undoubtedly true.

What?!
Children become bigger because they are growing.
They continue to grow for a while even if starved.
Not all growing children become fat, whatever their hormones.

Chris isn't talking about children getting fat, he's talking about children growing.
They grow because their hormones manage their intake and don't convert it into fat, but into growth- even when they're starved (at least at first). They eat more than they 'need' and that excess becomes growth- height, natural maturation.
In exactly the same way, adult food intake is partitioned by hormones into muscle growth, energy for immediate use, and fat storage.
Some research seems to show the presence of body fat changes the hormone balance and a) reduces the desire for movement, hence fat people are more sedentary because they're fat, not fat because they're sedentary and b) changes the balance of hormones so that carrying fat makes you hungrier.

[citoyen]

Good news: 3kg down since the start of the year.

Bad news: none of that has come off my waistline, which is the one and only area where I need to lose a bit.

Sigh.

I know it'll come off eventually if I keep at it, but it's still mildly depressing.