Author Topic: Do eTrex units wear out?  (Read 4923 times)

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Do eTrex units wear out?
« on: 11 August, 2013, 07:54:54 pm »
My Legend seems to have lost its mojo - it takes ages to lock onto satellites and easily loses reception, even in a commercial aircraft with an unrestricted view of the sky.  Do the receivers get lazy?  I rarely use it but wouldn't want to be without it on an unknown route.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #1 on: 11 August, 2013, 08:03:33 pm »
It doesn't sound like it's worn out, so much as something has failed.

Since it's still working to some degree, it's an unusual failure mechanism, since most things would just total the device, with no reception whatsoever.

At a guess, some component failure in the front end amplifier could be enough to reduce the link budget, or damage to the antenna could also leave it either with a reduced gain, or poor performance in certain directions.

Unless it's a fairly new and/or expensive model, I'd suspect that it wouldn't be cost effective to have it repaired.
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Kim

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Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #2 on: 11 August, 2013, 08:05:10 pm »
That's an interesting one.  Usual failure modes of the eTrexes of that vintage are the silly rubber surround stretching and coming unstuck, and problems with the battery connection.

Have you tried thumping it?

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #3 on: 11 August, 2013, 08:08:49 pm »
Most failure modes are kind of binary with these things: workee / not-workee.
So dunno how slowness appears.

However, in more general terms:
Yes, consumer electronics are now designed to wear out.
Thanks to Lead-free solder.
Expect them to fail the day after the 1-year warranty expires.

R.

Euan Uzami

Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #4 on: 11 August, 2013, 08:12:58 pm »
Do 'consumer' GPSes even work in planes?
My phone (samsung galaxy S3) has excellent GPS reception, it even gets a signal indoors, but I tried it on a plane and it didn't work at all.

When you say you were in a commercial aircraft with "an unrestricted view of the sky" I'm not sure it's that unrestricted as the window's tiny. Were you in the cockpit?

Has anyone here ever tracked the route the plane's flying on their phone (or etrex or whatever)?  I thought it'd be quite interesting...

Kim

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Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #5 on: 11 August, 2013, 08:16:00 pm »
Most failure modes are kind of binary with these things: workee / not-workee.
So dunno how slowness appears.

As TimO said, slowness to obtain (and trouble maintaining) a lock - as distinct from UI sluggishness - is probably signal/noise related.  Some fault in the RF side or power supply seems likely.


If the unleaded solder doesn't get them, the capacitors will.  If the capacitors don't fail, then the plastic disintegrates.  You can't really win.

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #6 on: 11 August, 2013, 08:17:57 pm »
Do 'consumer' GPSes even work in planes?

Yes, my Garmin Colorado 300, Montana 600 and Edge 800 can all get enough signal through the window of an aircraft.
Needs to be right at the window, though.
And I've only tried it on small regional flights, so I dunno if bigger airliners are more screened from the signals.

R.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #7 on: 11 August, 2013, 08:22:09 pm »
It used to work OK on planes.  I have a rather interesting 3D Google Earth plot of a takeoff from Gatwick into a westerly wind; you can see how the plane climbs sharply for a short period, levels out (noise abatement?) then turns to face east - Salzburg, in this case - then climbs again when over the sea.  I have always landed heading SE at Salzburg; there never seems to be much wind there and it's very lightly used, so they let planes come in and take off in the most convenient direction.  The plpane that brought us back yesterday landed SE from Gatwick but took off NW for Gatwick an hour later.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Kim

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Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #8 on: 11 August, 2013, 08:22:54 pm »
Do 'consumer' GPSes even work in planes?
My phone (samsung galaxy S3) has excellent GPS reception, it even gets a signal indoors, but I tried it on a plane and it didn't work at all.

When you say you were in a commercial aircraft with "an unrestricted view of the sky" I'm not sure it's that unrestricted as the window's tiny. Were you in the cockpit?

Quite.  A plane is hardly the ideal environment for GPS reception.  The middle of a field is about as optimal as it gets.

Similarly, the now legendary Class 220/221 Voyager train - as operated by Crosscountry and Virgin Trains - is a particularly tricky environment for GPS reception, in spite of plenty of great big windows.  None of my GPS-enabled phone-type devices have ever managed to maintain a fix in one.  The 'H' series eTrex can just about manage it (I assume the new ones can, too).  I understand this is because the drive system spews out vast amounts of RF interference, rather than a Faraday cage effect.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #9 on: 11 August, 2013, 08:46:47 pm »
It may be that the latest 737-800 (just off the production line, according to the plane bore next to us) has more GPS-unfriendly guts wrapped around the fuselage than the older ones.  I'm afraid all planes look the same to me inside - a nightmare of Formica, navy leather and signage that seemed cool in about 1972.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Charlotte

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Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #10 on: 11 August, 2013, 09:13:06 pm »
My old eTrex is giving me some really weird grief.  It won't turn off any more - when you hold down the on/off button, it emits a steady electronic tone and just locks up. You need to take the batteries out to get it to shut up.

It's just recently been doing an even worse thing; under certain circumstances, the nipple joystick on the front now responds to a select click by locking everything up and making you de-battery it to restart.  I reckon there's gremlins in the firmware because the satellite lock is as good as it ever was and everything else works okay.  Can one re-flash the firmware on these things?
Commercial, Editorial and PR Photographer - www.charlottebarnes.co.uk

Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #11 on: 11 August, 2013, 09:32:52 pm »
There are theoretical limitations on the operation of GPS receivers above a certain altitude or velocity.  This was introduced by the US government to stop (undesirable) people using them on missiles.  As far as I recall the altitude limitation is 60000 feet, and velocity is limited to 999mph (some receivers cease to operate when both limitations are reached, others when only one is reached!).  Since there are plenty of weapons systems that operate below this, it seems a bit of a minor limitation, and of course jamming or deliberate cessation of the C/A signal would stop that from working anyway.  Of course, GPS receivers could be built outside of the USA, and some are built for purposes which would need to operate outside of that range, spacecraft being an important one.

A plane in some respects isn't a bad place to put a GPS receiver, because it has a nice unrestricted view from horizon to horizon, but the metal shell of most aircraft does operate as a fairly effective Faraday cage.  Since GPS receivers are on the edge of working from an RF budget POV, it doesn't take a lot to stop them.  It's unlikely much electronic equipment in an aircraft would interfere with a GPS receiver, because anything which radiates that badly, is likely to interfere with some of the aircraft's own systems.  Good EMC/EMI performance within an aircraft, which is a damned good idea if you're an avionics manufacturer, will require that, and the only thing which will radiate significantly are transmitters, which will not be transmitting on the GPS frequencies, because it would interfere with GPS receiving equipment, which the aircraft uses itself, so would not be allowed by the CAA or FAA.
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Kim

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Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #12 on: 11 August, 2013, 09:35:04 pm »
My old eTrex is giving me some really weird grief.  It won't turn off any more - when you hold down the on/off button, it emits a steady electronic tone and just locks up. You need to take the batteries out to get it to shut up.

It's just recently been doing an even worse thing; under certain circumstances, the nipple joystick on the front now responds to a select click by locking everything up and making you de-battery it to restart.  I reckon there's gremlins in the firmware because the satellite lock is as good as it ever was and everything else works okay.  Can one re-flash the firmware on these things?

My spidey sense says that's a power problem rather than firmware, but applying a firmware update should re-flash the firmware:

http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=3709

Charlotte

  • Dissolute libertine
  • Here's to ol' D.H. Lawrence...
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Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #13 on: 11 August, 2013, 09:48:46 pm »
Thanks Kim - I shall schedule that for a twenty minute slot of my copious free time  :D
Commercial, Editorial and PR Photographer - www.charlottebarnes.co.uk

frankly frankie

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Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #14 on: 11 August, 2013, 10:40:36 pm »
[response to all problems]
give it a hard reset - can't do any harm - and IME often does fix things.
http://www.aukadia.net/gps/lwg_00.htm
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Aushiker

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Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #15 on: 12 August, 2013, 12:36:51 am »
The issue  slow locking on to satellites does not seem to be that uncommon. I have experienced the same with my Garmin Edge 800 and see it posted often around the traps.

Garmin has some advice which may or may not help.

Oh I ended up replacing my Edge 800 with a 810 after it went back to Garmin, was replaced and then the replacement unit soon started doing the same.

Good luck on solving your issue.

Regards
Andrew


Oscar's dad

  • aka Septimus Fitzwilliam Beauregard Partridge
Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #16 on: 12 August, 2013, 01:59:49 am »
After over 4 years of faithful abuse mine gave up the ghost. Wouldn't power up properly. So I replaced it with an E30 which I don't like as much.

frankly frankie

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Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #17 on: 12 August, 2013, 08:45:58 am »
That's progress for you.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Kim

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Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #18 on: 12 August, 2013, 12:11:49 pm »
That's progress for you.

Indeed.

I maintain that the E10/20/30 series solve various long-term hardware annoyances, and then ruin it with idiotic design decisions in the software.

Oscar's dad

  • aka Septimus Fitzwilliam Beauregard Partridge
Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #19 on: 12 August, 2013, 05:09:00 pm »
100% agree with Kim

Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #20 on: 12 August, 2013, 05:58:27 pm »
It may be that the latest 737-800 (just off the production line, according to the plane bore next to us) has more GPS-unfriendly guts wrapped around the fuselage than the older ones.  I'm afraid all planes look the same to me inside - a nightmare of Formica, navy leather and signage that seemed cool in about 1972.

Buy GPS, use it to map flight pattern when flying.

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #21 on: 12 August, 2013, 06:17:00 pm »
I'm afraid all planes look the same to me inside - a nightmare of Formica, navy leather and signage that seemed cool in about 1972.

That's an American thing.

'Design' seems to have passed 'em by.
As a regular visitor to the US since about '87, I'm always surprised by how static the look-and-feel of the place is.
It never changes.

The décor is Brown with a Capital B.
I always feel I've stepped back into the '70s.
The carpets are brown.  The furniture is brown. Everything is brown.
The electrical stuff seems even older, harking back to the '50s.
All the kitchen appliances are the tobacco-stained brown colour of pub ceilings of old.
The general look and feel of them has not changed since 1950.
The light switches on the walls, and power outlets have not changed since 1950 either.
They are also a dated off-cream brown colour.
Telephones with mechanical bells that look and sound like the intro to 'The Rockford Files'.

If you wanted a set for an Indiana Jones movie set in 1950, all you'd need to do would be to take the plasma TV off the wall.

I mean, can you imagine brown swirly carpets, light switches with poky-out toggles and GPO-phones in your house today?

The hairyplanes are just an extension of this.

Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #22 on: 12 August, 2013, 07:59:14 pm »
Could it just be forgetting how long older GPSs take? I got out my Vista C the other week and used it alongside my Vista HCx for some Scout geocaching. Took forever to lock on. If I went back to my Summit...

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
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Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #23 on: 12 August, 2013, 10:38:43 pm »
Any GPS will take longer to lock if you haven't used it for a while.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Do eTrex units wear out?
« Reply #24 on: 12 August, 2013, 10:41:49 pm »
Yes, and also if you move it a significant distance ( long-haul flight) from last time it was used.