Author Topic: Weight Loss Discussion Thread  (Read 1285155 times)

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #625 on: 01 July, 2009, 02:58:24 pm »
I 'm still yoyoing after having been off food & drink for my x-rays yesterday, getting dehydrated & v. hungry, then pigging out. :(

But, yes, it's up from last week (and where it was at the weekend, which had been more promising. *sigh*

I need to keep working at it, and trying to ride when I can...

Edit: Probably TMI, but I have shifted the Barium (it's alarmingly white - glad I was warned! :o ), and lost a lot of weight in the process ;D
Getting there...

alan

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #626 on: 01 July, 2009, 03:27:38 pm »
I seem to be fluctuating + or- 0.5 kg @ 91kg & suspect that no further significant reduction will occur without
a) a significant change to diet/quantity
b) a significant increase in excercise.

ATM I regard successfully giving up cigarettes coffin-nails as sufficient significance in recent times.

So for the foreseeable future I will remain a slightly fat cyclist.

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #627 on: 01 July, 2009, 04:41:57 pm »
Post audax dip for a change, but probably more due to dehydration from the extra hour of 5-a-side I played last night in the heat. And only one pint in the pub afterwards.

Might even get down to that magic 76.2kg for LEL although it really doesn't matter much at all now. Fitness and miles in the legs are far more important (and all of that has gone ok).
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Charlotte

  • Dissolute libertine
  • Here's to ol' D.H. Lawrence...
    • charlottebarnes.co.uk
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #628 on: 01 July, 2009, 04:45:43 pm »
I put on four pounds during this year's TRAT.

It was Melbourne12's excellent cooking wot did for me  :-[
Commercial, Editorial and PR Photographer - www.charlottebarnes.co.uk

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #629 on: 01 July, 2009, 04:50:26 pm »
Might even get down to that magic 76.2kg for LEL although it really doesn't matter much at all now. Fitness and miles in the legs are far more important (and all of that has gone ok).
Best shoot me now...

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #630 on: 02 July, 2009, 05:53:12 pm »
Hmm! bit of a tetchy subject really, innit! I've now BOUNCED on my goal of 89kg, WOW!  Bat ph'ardsd You say, but I feel I look Hollow. Did my bmi thing anits 25.1, still puts me as Phat. So new all singining and dancing whistles and bells new goal is 85KG! That makes me officially bi-afran but FIT! then I'll have a real top feed!   :thumbsup:   But WHY is it so important? 6 months ago I was perfectly 'appy being  phat. Then some thing happened, and I wantd to be less phat. Now I bl@@dy obsessed. Oh bugga, better get some more miles in, postmans obviously not bringing my new B17 special today then!  Stumpy.

simonp

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #631 on: 07 July, 2009, 10:07:25 pm »
So I went to the gym this evening and did a bit of work there.

I weighed myself in afterwards, at 70.8kg.

So I'm slightly less flabby, and the gym will help with that too.

Tomorrow is Kung Fu class in the evening.  That will also help with tone.

And Tour de Commute this morning, was my fastest ride to work on fixed, ever.  Despite it not being a tail wind this time, and some crawling along in a queue for a bit.  Maximum speed of about 44kph on the flat (overtaking a car between speed humps).

I think I might have a go at the local club 10 on Thursday.

It's all good.  :thumbsup:

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #632 on: 13 July, 2009, 10:49:58 am »
Interesting discovery this year:

Cycling several thousands of miles/year does this for my fatloss: 0.

Skate instruction, really low intensity, mostly testiculating with a little bit of skating around: Makes me lose weight faster than I can eat it back on again.
Your Royal Charles are belong to us.

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #633 on: 13 July, 2009, 10:56:21 am »
Testiculating? :o

It's interesting though, it's mindnumbingly difficult to cycle at such a "slow" rate as to keep within the traditional "fat burning zones" where your body gets much more energy from burning fat and uses relatively little glycogen.

Imagine your body stores 2000kcal of energy in glycogen in the blood/liver.

If you go balls out on the bike for a few hours then you could use up 2000kcal with 90% coming from glycogen and only 10% from fat stores. After finishing you've got to eat to replace 1800kcal of glycogen.

Towards the other end of the spectrum, if you go out nice and steady for 8 hours or so then you could use up 2000kcal but with 90% of it coming from fat and only 200kcal of energy from glycogen. You the only have to eat to replace the 200kcal of glycogen.

In the middle of these the proportions change, but you should see the effects.

What you do eat afterwards is a separate matter, and related to hunger and your BMR but burning fat puts you in a better position that glycogen. It's too complex to consider without having a strictly kept food diary, I found it all too easy to kid myself about what I was eating.

I eat enough to keep my weight slightly edging downwards given all of the cycling I do. This means feeling hungry some times but it works. If I want to lose 1lb a week I can eat 500kcal a day less and, if I'm strict, that's what will happen. More often than not I'm not strict enough, and my weight stays about the same. I lost ~15kg the other year, purely from cycling but mainly from watching what I ate and not overeating to compensate for the increased exercise.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #634 on: 13 July, 2009, 11:21:02 am »
(c) Adam Hart Davis IIRC.  Equals waving your arms around and talking boll0cks, i.e. a perhaps over-critical and sardonic view of my own teaching, LOL.
Your Royal Charles are belong to us.

simonp

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #635 on: 13 July, 2009, 12:54:59 pm »
If you are consuming signficant amounts of booze thatt is not going to help. I think the fact I have been virtually TT for 9 years has helped me. Currently I am also tryingg to be very careful about fat input to see if that will help. On Sunday morning I was 70.5kg and i'm hoping that I can stay around that weight til LEL. Unfortunately it's beer and curry night tonight but as I am driving there will be no booze for me and I will try going sans starter to help keep the calories undress control.

The upper body flabbiness I described a few posts back is diminishing too which is good.

I have never bought into the fat burning zone btw. If I ride in the fat zone for an hour I burn maybe 300 kcals. If I ride in the aerobic zone I might burn 500. I will burn more fat in the latter case. As long as I don't consume extra fat as a result I can't lose.  If I consume extra 200kcsls of carbs then I lose the same weight as if I did the fat burning workout. But I get fat more training benefit.

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #636 on: 13 July, 2009, 01:16:17 pm »
I have never bought into the fat burning zone btw. If I ride in the fat zone for an hour I burn maybe 300 kcals. If I ride in the aerobic zone I might burn 500. I will burn more fat in the latter case.

I'd always assumed that not only wouldn't burn more fat at higher intensities (once over a certain maxium), but you'd also burn less fat anyway once over this threshold, which was the point of trying to remain in the fat burning zone.

It was more along the lines that there's a maximum amount of energy you can get from burning fat and that this is slightly less efficient than using glycogen directly and so, once over this maximum energy-from-fat value you're going to be burning less and less fat for more effort.

At the slower rate you'll burn 300kcal an hour. That could be 90% fat and 10% glycogen. So 270kcal of fat, 30kcal of glycogen.

As you go faster you can't burn more fat and, more importantly, as you body gets more energy from glycogen it can't burn as much fat. It may drop to a 50:50 split so only 250kcal from fat and 250kcal from glycogen. Faster than this and you'll get more energy from glycogen but, more importantly, less energy from fat.

At 800kcal an hour it might be down to 200kcal from fat and 600kcal from glycogen.

Again, that's just my understanding of it, and the figures are just random guesswork, but it reinforces the point of trying to stick within the fat burning zone. Anything over that is just burning extra glycogen that just needs replacing, but also burning less fat.

If your goal was purely fat loss then sticking within the fat burning zone is better than burning the same number of kcal in half the time at twice the rate. However, most people aren't looking at purely weight loss, they want to increase fitness/power/stamina/speed and do something other than bimbling along the road a painfully slow pace. So by sacrificing ~20% of fat burning power you can make your training much more interesting and enjoyable.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #637 on: 13 July, 2009, 01:27:05 pm »
Fat burning in the zone worked for me when I had to shed about 20kg last year. Painlessly. On a stationary bike in the gym with TVs to watch and ladies.

simonp

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #638 on: 13 July, 2009, 02:26:12 pm »
The peak fat burning occurs at 62% of maximum aerobic intensity (see Myths Under the Microscope Part 1: The Low Intensity Fat Burning Zone - AlanAragon.com  -  Fitness Based on Science & Experience ).  For me this would be around 144 watts or 518kcals/hour.  My example power output of 500kcals/hour was picked out of the air but it's close to the theoretical value (note that I guesstimated my lactate threshold to be around 200W - it might be higher as I maintained 198W for an hour on the MSG 300).

Hence in Greenbank's original example the low intensity 250kcal/hr burns less fat than the higher intensity 500kcal/hr.  It's only above this level that fat burning starts to drop.

Also note later in the article the stuff about long-term weight change.  Sustained high intensity and HIIT both beat the fat burning zone for long-term results.


Note: corrected 200 to 250kcal/hr.

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #639 on: 13 July, 2009, 05:09:47 pm »
Interesting, ta for that.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #640 on: 13 July, 2009, 07:03:50 pm »
I'm also with SimonP's stance on the "fat burning zone", but perhaps I'm having to rethink my attitude on it given the results of my own experience.

Two things that might indicate that Simon is right, but not in my circumstances, are that my teaching is of such length that I'm burning loads of calories, albeit at a slower rate, and that teaching does an excellent job of supressing appetite.
Your Royal Charles are belong to us.

simonp

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #641 on: 13 July, 2009, 11:44:52 pm »
I just take the simple view that if calories in is less than calories consumed then you are going to lose weight.  I don't believe it matters very much but if you work harder you burn more calories in less time, and you don't need to work at low intensity to burn fat.

Mikey: I'm not sure what you're getting at, but your exercise is long duration if you are teaching all day.  In long duration the percentage that comes from fat increases markedly.

Quote
Alternative research has suggested that when you cycle, swim, row or run at a modest intensity of only 50% VO2max (about 69% MHR), fat provides about 50% of the calories you need to keep going for the first hour or so. If you keep going after that, fat becomes even more generous, providing around 70% of the total energy after two hours and 80% or more if your work duration exceeds three hours. If you increase the intensity then the Fat contribution decreases - at 75% VO2max fat provides 33% of the energy.

From Fat Burning Zone - the exercise intensity which evokes the highest rate of fat oxidation

Further down the same page:

Quote
A moderately fit athlete exercising at 50% VO2max generally consumes about 220 Calories during a 30 minute workout. If the same athlete works out at 75% VO2max, 330 Calories are burned during the same period. Of course, 50% of 220 Calories and 33% of 330 Calories yield an identical number of calories coming from fat - 110 Calories.

There's a piece missing here, though, which is what happens in the long duration case for the 75% VO2max guy.  Can he get more calories from fat once he's been going for a while?


clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #642 on: 23 July, 2009, 09:13:43 am »
Crikey, it's tough when you're not riding.  After last week's rise almost back to 100kg, I am this week down to my lightest yet - 98kg! :o

I don't think I've been this, er, 'light' since about 2000, when I was riding regularly, and worked in a manual job. :thumbsup:

More to go, though.  I still want to reach that 95kg second target.  It's not very ambitious, but I need to get away from bumping along this plateau and make sure I am losing weight more consistently :)
Getting there...

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #643 on: 23 July, 2009, 09:22:29 am »
I am still around 70kg, was 69 once a couple of weeks ago, 71 yesterday. It's OK. Still getting thinner though and wider chest and shoulders, my upper arms are staring to rub the sides of my chest like my power lifting mate.

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #644 on: 23 July, 2009, 10:18:38 am »
Well finally decided I had to do something about my weight - which was 106kg  :o

So, started cycling again (I'd been off the bike for nearly 2 years for various reasons) about 6 weeks ago. Now riding 2-3 20 milers at weekends, 3-4 12 milers after work.

Also cut down on my "downfall" foods: carbohydrates (oh I do love mash with my salads, and fried mash with the next days salad!) of most types - potatoes, bread (no more sandwiches for lunch at work), rice, crisps,   and I've reduced fat intake (mayo!), and started to have fruit for lunch.

Progress has been good so far - now 98kg and falling.

Just got to keep it up. Ideal target 80kg. We'll see.

We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

hulver

  • I am a mole and I live in a hole.
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #645 on: 29 July, 2009, 07:21:25 am »
I've managed to lose 10kg since January. Which is pretty good, but if I carry on at this rate I'm not going to reach my goal at all.

Must stick to my "no snacking" rule. I've been a bit lack with it, but doing well this last week and a half. It helps to have a definate time based goal. If I don't have something like "If I eat this, I'm not going to be able to do x", then I'll find an excuse to eat that chocolate bar.

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #646 on: 03 August, 2009, 03:07:42 pm »
I know looking at daily weigh-ins is meaningless but...

79.1kg Saturday morning before LEL.
78.2kg Friday morning after LEL.
77.8kg Saturday morning after LEL.
77.2kg Sunday morning after LEL.
76.8kg Monday morning after LEL.

My Wednesday weigh in will be interesting, I'll be mildly chuffed if I can get under 76.2kg (12 stone) as this represents the entirely artificial boundary between "overweight" and "normal" as far as BMI is concerned.

(Note that I don't really care about being "overweight" according to BMI as I'm a reasonably stocky build.)

No huge appetite after LEL either. Back to normal 500kcal daily deficit eating habits.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Hummers

  • It is all about the taste.
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #647 on: 03 August, 2009, 03:13:19 pm »
I am still around 70kg, was 69 once a couple of weeks ago, 71 yesterday. It's OK. Still getting thinner though and wider chest and shoulders, my upper arms are staring to rub the sides of my chest like my power lifting mate.

Your power lifting mate rubs the sides of your chest?

I'd watch out for him dropping the soap in the communual showers and asking you to pick it up for him.

 :o

Think on.

H

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #648 on: 03 August, 2009, 03:30:17 pm »
It's OK H, the showers have soap dispensers on the wall, no need to bend over !! We go to different gyms anyway, his is much more serious than mine.