Super bright flashing bloody lights

[Charlotte]

The day when SMIDSY becomes unheard of is the day people stop using f-off powerful lights.

Up to a point.

An IQ Cyo or a Hope 1 up front and a Smart 1/2W on steady from behind, all with fresh batteries ought to be just about all the lights anyone needs.  Having said that, I have to admit to periods of using my Fenix strobe-of-thrashy-deth as a bike light during my winter commute, simply because I'd had an absolute basin full of knobheads pulling out of side roads on me and making the "oh - I never saw you" shrug when I jammed on the brakes to avoid teh splatty.

[teethgrinder]

Up to a point.

An IQ Cyo or a Hope 1 up front and a Smart 1/2W on steady from behind, all with fresh batteries ought to be just about all the lights anyone needs.  Having said that, I have to admit to periods of using my Fenix strobe-of-thrashy-deth as a bike light during my winter commute, simply because I'd had an absolute basin full of knobheads pulling out of side roads on me and making the "oh - I never saw you" shrug when I jammed on the brakes to avoid teh splatty.

Very true. I think the thrashy deth Fenix is more excusable in a big, well lit city when lights are coming from all directions. Especially this time of year. The "Festive Period" gets worse each week in the lead up to Christmas. More drunks, more stress, more anger on the roads. Fist fights for parking spaces etc. Season of goodwill and all that.
I think there's a fine line between top defence and being a %^*£ with silly lights. Even cars get SMIDSY'd, so good lights don't cure all, as I expect y'all ready know.
I suspect this thread might develop into an argument about where that line lays...

[Euan Uzami]

I only have one of my rear lights on flashing, for the "obviously a cyclist" effect - but it's ok as it's only the puniest one, a smart 1/2W, so not exactly a lazer of deth. All my other rear lights, including the fibre flares, the XR9s, the Fenix, and the fog light, are always on constant     

[YahudaMoon]

Its all gone wrong !!! We never heard about cyclist having to much a bright light a few year back and now its one of the new big cycling issues ! Well I agree with Andy Gates, naughty words not excepted :O. So many cyclist out with bright lights. Its at the point of to many with bright lights against the cyclist with no lights :O

Where will it end ? Come on you Hope n Magic Shine light users turn down the off road mode :O

[Feanor]

I think it depends where you are.

In busy traffic, yes, you can tone it down a bit.
In deeply dark lanes, a medium setting may be appropriate.
Enough to see by, but not so much as to set the tarmac on fire.

On a 40mph descent in a pitch dark quiet road, then turning it up to 11 is appropriate.
I appreciate that's not a 'normal' scenario.

--
F

[mcshroom]

I think it depends where you are.

In busy traffic, yes, you can tone it down a bit.
In deeply dark lanes, a medium setting may be appropriate.
Enough to see by, but not so much as to set the tarmac on fire.

On a 40mph descent in a pitch dark quiet road, then turning it up to 11 is appropriate.
I appreciate that's not a 'normal' scenario.

--
F

Agreed, though out in the countryside you don't need as bright a rear light as a good sensible rear light can bee seen from a long way away.

I spend most of my time riding hilly unlit roads, so my ultrafire torch gets used quite a bit, however I don't see people with bright flashing lights when riding in the countryside - the light is needed to see

[Andrew Br]

I like the Radbot because I think the 'throbbing' is much less offensive than a standard on/off flash, but I understand that its peak brightness isn't something you want in your eye at point blank range.  I've deliberately fettled a bracket to mount it as low as possible, so it disappears behind the bonnet of the car behind at junctions, and to keep it below the eyeline of other cyclists.

I hate to say it Kim but on the York-Hull FNRTTC, your Radbot was voted (electorate of 2, 100% turnout, unanimous verdict) the most irritating rear light 'cos it was so *king bright and the slow flash was very hypnotic. FWIW, Slowcoach's rear light (RSP Astrum ? on steady) came in a close second. I appreciate that group rides aren't the same as solo rides where visibility from afar is more important.

I've stopped using flashing front lights since I've found that my pair of (large area) IQ Speeds get me more respect. I think that I'm not so obviously a cyclist so I don't get drivers pulling any last minute stunts.
I'm going to change my rear light policy. Previously they were all (Mars 3 or Superflash plus Trek bar end light plus Aldi ankle wrap) on flash. I'm going to put the main rear lamp on steady and leave the supplementary lights to flash.

[Kim]

I hate to say it Kim but on the York-Hull FNRTTC, your Radbot was voted (electorate of 2, 100% turnout, unanimous verdict) the most irritating rear light 'cos it was so *king bright and the slow flash was very hypnotic. FWIW, Slowcoach's rear light (RSP Astrum ? on steady) came in a close second. I appreciate that group rides aren't the same as solo rides where visibility from afar is more important.

Interesting.  I've had many people comment on how much less annoying it is^[1] compared to similar lights like the Smart, which matches my own experience of riding behind one.  Which I suppose goes to show that you can't win.   

I tend to turn it off on group rides like the FNRttC once off the busy roads, but I do sometimes forget, or find myself effectively riding solo (due to the group spreading out, or riding at the back) and tactically leave it on^[2].



_{[1] In 'slow throb' mode, that is.  It's easily one of the most irritating lights on the planet in its 'throbby-flashy epileptic disco frenzy' mode, which is why I've only used that one twice, both during torrential rain in daylight.
[2] I'm for the most part pragmatic about the seeability vs visibility of recumbents, but in the dark I do get slightly paranoid that there's an awful lot of me that's not actually visible^[3] from directly behind.  I'm less nervous about it on an upright.
[3] All that useful retroreflective clothing and moving limb stuff is hidden behind the seat/luggage.}

[Si_Co]

I'm not so sure it's all about power, I regulary see a guy coming the other way with just a flashing front, it's not a particulary bright light compared to my Hope 1, but it's set-up very badly - straight in front so it lights the air not the road and angled  into coming traffic. Stupid people will do stupid things.

I'm quite keen on flashing rears, particulary ankle mounted ones as the sinusoidal motion causes motons to really think WTF is that. Can't comment on the group aspect really as 99.9% of my riding is solo but can see how they would be a PITA over a long time

[mattc]

flashing lights and over-bright lights are particularly stupid in a group.

Say you're in a group of 5 riders, all with legal lights plus the usual random array of retro-reflec on clothes etc etc ...   Do you REALLY think other road users will strugle to see any of you? Really?

On top of that, the only thing more annoying than a flashing light in front of you is 3-4 flashing lights.

Ask yourself another simple question - what if cars were fitted with this nonsense? Hmm?

Cars have dippable lights for a reason. Think about that, too.

[perpetual dan]

I only use flashing front lights once street lights make seeing where I am going easy but suggest a level of lit clutter where standing out is helpful. Flashing front lights annoy me too much to use if I can see the flashing myself and I'm deeply perplexed by all the riders I see on dark roads using them as their only light. I usually go for creating a patch of light on the road rather than pointing up - for exactly the reasons Andy mentions.

I'm with Kim re area being important and if I'm in the market for another white light it is one that has a bigger lit area, not a brighter one - I rarely put my Fenix on full. I've been musing about creating a light / retro-reflective / diffuser front for my bar bag for a while now.

At the back I tend to have one flashing and one rear to try and mix the cyclist message with something that doesn't break distance judging. I like to have two lights so one can fail unseen without leaving me invisible. Following a previous lights thread here I also point one down and a little to the right, to create a big red patch on the road.

[bobb]

flashing lights and over-bright lights are particularly stupid in a group.

Say you're in a group of 5 riders, all with legal lights plus the usual random array of retro-reflec on clothes etc etc ...   Do you REALLY think other road users will strugle to see any of you? Really?

"Over-bright" lights are for seeing where you're going - not to be seen!

I hate stupidly bright rear lights though and I always point front lights down a bit. I need (with my useless night vision) to see immediate pot holes in front of me, not 100 yards down the road...

[mattc]

Flashing front lights annoy me too much to use if I can see the flashing myself

Hmm ...

[perpetual dan]

Flashing front lights annoy me too much to use if I can see the flashing myself

Hmm ...

Confusing or have I stumbled upon some innuendo?

[Tim]

In the context of the OP which I understood to relate to front lights, I would assume that it is within an urban environment (or at least one with adequate third party light sources) as the cyclists presumably do not need a light to see by (as a flashing light does not provide for this). I would assume that this leads to a reduced chance that the light has ever been trained on the tarmac with the result that far more are aimed at eye level.

Under those circumstances the light is solely for drawing attention to yourself and an indiscriminately bright flasher in everyone's eyes is just antisocial. It's not just group riding it is about everyone you share the space with, other road users and pedestrians beside the road.

For seeing where you are going the light should be concentrated on the tarmac which is best achieved through pointing your photons down. I don't want a round puddle of light - roads aren't round, so just spitting out more power in that shape wastes a lot of effort. Where the beam shape corresponds to the road you need to see a far greater proportion of your light output becomes useful rather than wasted.

And while I'm at it, the radbot rear is an annoying little $%^* of a rear light to follow (particularly for many sleep depraved hours).

[mattc]

Flashing front lights annoy me too much to use if I can see the flashing myself

Hmm ...

Confusing or have I stumbled upon some innuendo?

Darn, I should have considered that 

Sorry, I was hoping to make the point that if YOU find it annoying (and the thing is pointed away from you), imagine what it's like for other road-users!

[arabella]

Suspect my front light is not ideally pointed, it's a dynamo and the stand light has gone so it's hard to adjust.  So anyone is welcome to drop unsubtle hints (if the hints are subtle I just don't get them, you see).

I suspect my rear light is suitably unbright already. 
I can't stand flashing lights as my eyes have to keep adjusting to ligh-nolight-light-nolight-light-etc.  need a constant amount of light output.  so I don't do flash myself (I usd to, before I started rigin outside town etc.)

I don't like laser front lights of deth iether.  Even about 4 years back I remember one of El Supremo's rides (?400) with an out and back stretch where you were facing oncoming cyclists was hard work.
I often wonder whetner putting a hood around my front light (like they do for traffic lights) would help.

[perpetual dan]

Exactly my point too! If I find the world around me flashing annoying, I assume other people do too. That light (a smart something or other) is too much and scatters so wide that road signs flash back at me even if I point it down, so I have swapped back to something more sociable.

[Tim]

If you could line a hood out of reflective material you may even make a gain in the effectiveness of your light for seeing where you are headed. Though it would ideally want some focussing component which would make it challenging.

Maybe a fresnel lens across the top of the light?

[mattc]

Reflective Hoods/Cowls:
People have tried these. I had a go at Wothill's method, it was quick and (very!) cheap but didn't help a LOT. Here's his original post (edited a bit):

The DIY cowl is attached to the end with duct tape and consists of some foil glued to an appropriately shaped bit of plastic milk bottle. It makes the beam almost semicircular with the cut-off just above the hot spot. I have used it on all my night riding for the last year with no problems of glare that I have been aware of. I point it at the road between 5 and 10 metres ahead of me.
This is the torch

This is the beam against a white wall.

I think a proper lens (Tim's "fresnel" thing?!?) is required. Anyone fancy marketing one to fit a variety of the modern torch-style lights? Could be the winning bike-light VFM answer.

p.s. @Vorsprung: please undelete your post! Not sure how serious it was, but there was some sense in it 

[PaulR]

I really like the gentle flicker of my dynamo light as I ride along at about 4mph and the steady light it makes when I occasionally travel at higher speeds.  And I like the rectangle of light it throws onto the tarmac.  And the little pools on the road either side of me.  And the shape of the light patch when I pull up behind a bus at the lights - a nice sharp cut-off that reminds me (not coincidentally) of the beam pattern of car headlight.  And the occasional flash of reflected light from signposts and other retroreflective stuff when I hit a bump in the road. 

My only concern about my dynamo light is that it might, in a close group, produce a weird effect that I've witnessed on a FNRttS, when someone with a similar light is riding behind me, and their light is properly angeled down and is lighting up the road beneath my bike and, when I look down, I can see every detail in the road surface repeated in an incredibly fast strobing sort of effect.  It was a bit like those LED cats'-eyes on the descent into West Wycombe, which break up into swirling  streams of tiny dots when you ride fast past them.  Or a bit like walking into a room where a data projector is on, and it breaks up into a mad pattern of red, blue and green blocks as I move.

Is there a loose connection in my brane or has anyone else noticed this?

[LEE]

PBP was a great example of how a rear light on constant mode is more acceptable.

I don't recall many, if any, issues with rear lights (and you get to look at many hundreds for 4 nights).

It would be unbearable to stare at the same lights on flashing mode.

My front light (a B&M IQ) is constant and it has a distinct cut-off.  On top of that I manually adjust the height of the beam as situations change (it's conveniently located just in front of the stem).  If, as usual, I'm on totally dark country lanes I have it tilted up.  If I see a car approaching I'll aim it down.  It seems fair because most cars dip their lights when they see me.

My rear light(s) are set to flashing mode when I'm riding alone on those lanes.  I've carefully angled it quite low, so it wouldn't shine in a cyclist's eyes following close behind but it probably shines right into a driver's eyes at 100 yards.  It's a Cateye LD600 and very directional, not bright at all unless you are within its narrow "kill zone".  I doubt whether it's all that bright for a motorist as they get close but they should have been made well aware of my presence at 100 yards or more.

[LEE]

, I can see every detail in the road surface repeated in an incredibly fast strobing sort of effect.  It was a bit like those LED cats'-eyes on the descent into West Wycombe, which break up into swirling  streams of tiny dots when you ride fast past them.  Or a bit like walking into a room where a data projector is on, and it breaks up into a mad pattern of red, blue and green blocks as I move.

Is there a loose connection in my brane or has anyone else noticed this?

My old Solidlights used to strobe my tyre tread pattern and raindrops.  I don't notice the same effect with my CYO.

It looked freaky when the tyre would appear to stop rotating.  Maybe it only happens when the tread pattern repeats at the same interval as the dynamo magnets/pulses.

[mattc]

PBP was a great example of how a rear light on constant mode is more acceptable.

I don't recall many, if any, issues with rear lights (and you get to look at many hundreds for 4 nights).

It would be unbearable to stare at the same lights on flashing mode.

Exactomundo. The NO FLASHING LIGHTS rule was the only PBP rule that I saw no complaints about, before or after.

It would be great if the 24H Fellowhip would follow suit (cos you meet oncoming riders every few minutes on the 24). And maybe AUK? Or am I being too ridiculous now?!?

[Andrew Br]

I probably had this thread in mind when I wrote the following last night in the "Have you been out today ?" thread:-

The MTB is fitted with the Philips dyno lamp. It's a formidable bit of kit but I'm beginning to realise the limits of current bike lights; they really need dip-switches since, if you set them to give the maximum reach, they will dazzle anyone coming in the opposing direction. Point them down and you're not using their full potential. The MTB light is mounted on the fork crown (not any other "easy" options for the Philips) so moving it down when there's traffic coming the other way isn't an option.

The beam of the Philips isn't TOO anti-social since it is focussed into a rectangle along the road with very little vertical scatter and I've angled it down quite a bit.