Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: PizzaMan on 24 June, 2011, 12:27:47 pm
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I presume this is correct for DIY’s?
5.7 Speeds: events shall be run within maximum and minimum overall speeds and riders checked through a series of controls which have predetermined opening and closing times and which must be published in the brevet card for calendared events.
(i) The minimum speeds may not be altered and shall be:
for events up to 699km - within the range 14.3 to 15kph;
for events from 700 to 1299 km - 13.3kph;
for events from 1300 to 1899 km - 12kph;
for events from 1900 to 2499 km - 10kph; and
for events over 2499 km, 200 km per day.
So for a 2498 event you get about 10 day 10 hours.
If I did a 2500km DIY (by gps) how long would I have? 12 days or 12 days 12 hours or 13 days? (I am thinking of doing grand tour with a few days stopping at friends/relatives)
Also if did the End to End - Brevet Populaire perm details (http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/WW04/) then the minimum speed is 3kph? But this does not count towards AUK points? Take it that means it’s called and Audax but does not count for anything (such as Randonneur 5,000)?
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So for a 2498 event you get about 10 day 10 hours.
Yes (10 days 9 hours 48 minutes).
If I did a 2500km DIY (by gps) how long would I have? 12 days or 12 days 12 hours or 13 days? (I am thinking of doing grand tour with a few days stopping at friends/relatives)
It'll either be 12 days or 12 days 12 hours, it's not clear from that page. You certainly can't have 13 days as you're not doing 2600km.
Also if did the End to End - Brevet Populaire perm details (http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/WW04/) then the minimum speed is 3kph? But this does not count towards AUK points? Take it that means it’s called and Audax but does not count for anything (such as Randonneur 5,000)?
Correct, Populaires (even ones of 200km and over) do not count for awards like the Randonneur 5000.
You have to do the End to End in 116h40m (with a distance of at least 1400km) for it to count for points and Randonneur awards.
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Or you can do the E2E as a series of 7x200 and get 7x2=14 points also.
I know this because I am the organiser of the AUK validated E2E.
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2,500km would be 12 and a half days
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2,500km would be 12 and a half days
Well that's certainly what you get when you divide by 200km!
But is the rule intended to allow you to ride just 100km in 1 day? Is that dawn-till-dusk, or 14h, 24h, or what?!? I suspect the lawyers intended riders to do multiples of 200km. Maybe.
The sensible compromise seems to be to take the 10kph speed (for -2499km); that gives you 10.4 days. I can't believe anyone wants a rider to have a HIGHER average speed for a LONGER distance.
If it was 2700km there wouldn't be a problem - just ride it as 13x200km and treat the last 100km as riding home from the Audax!
I do wonder if this is a real route the OP has in mind, or if he's just being mischievous by picking the one distance that seems to fall between the cracks ;)
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The sensible compromise seems to be to take the 10kph speed (for -2499km); that gives you 10.4 days. I can't believe anyone wants a rider to have a HIGHER average speed for a LONGER distance.
?eh? ???
10.4 days is a sensible compromise instead of 12.5 days?
good point, brain fade. :facepalm:
What's your answer then, smart-arse? ;)
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I would have interpreted 12 and half days as meaning that you did the final 100km in 12 hours or less. e.g. if Pizzaman started the last 100km at 8am he would have until 8pm to finish.
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Isn't that just the deadline for the whole thing? Being out of time at intermediate controls on a DIY/Perm is not so much of a problem as long as the whole thing is done within the time limits.
(There are some problems with arriving at controls too soon but that's rarely a problem for us mere mortals.)
In other words, no-one would really care if you ended up doing 150km in the last 12 hours, just as long as the 2500km was done within 12 days and 12 hours.
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2,500km would be 12 and a half days
Thanks, that was what I was hoping to hear :thumbsup: But want to find out for definite, not just an interpretation....
For my purposes 12 and 1/2 days is basically the same as 13, eg. set off at 9am day 1, get till 9pm on day 13..... :)
EDIT (before posting) have rewritten parts several times as information keep being posted (I am a slow typer...) am just posting now....
But.... I guess I would have to nominate suitable check points and hit them at appropriately times? So if started at 9am on day 1, would effectively have to have done 2400km before bed on day 12, so even thought could have a good night sleep plus 12 hours riding could only do 100km (out of the 2500km) on final day?
if he's just being mischievous by picking the one distance that seems to fall between the cracks
for events over 2499 km, 200 km per day
I did not make up the rule.... surely if only whole days counted they would have made the rule for routes over 2399 or 2599?
Route comes to a bit less than 2500km and am struggling to come up with suitable schedule as want to spend couple of days not riding (staying with friends and family on route, will be my main holiday...). Seemed worth adding few extra km's to gian an extra 2 days.....
Route I am looking at is John O'Groats to Lands End via the most north, west, east and south points in UK Extreme points of the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_points_of_the_United_Kingdom), (John O'Groats and Lands End are not any of these....) plus a few other bits what to do on the way :)
Other option is to breaking the run up into smaller sections eg 1000km, days rest, 400km, days rest, 900km. The route brakes up quite naturally into these sections.
May even break the 1000km and 900km sections into smaller rides so can gain a nights sleep "off the clock".
This also give's added benefit of if something goes wrong on one section the whole ride is not a DNF... Would like to call a single ride but I will still know how long the whole ride was....
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Other option is to breaking the run up into smaller sections eg 1000km, days rest, 400km, days rest, 900km. The route brakes up quite naturally into these sections.
May even break the 1000km and 900km sections into smaller rides so can gain a nights sleep "off the clock".
The problem with that is you go from 1000km in 5 days (120h), as part of a long ride > 2499km, to having to do the 1000km in 75 hours (13.3kph), that's a difference of 45 hours!
Similarly you only get 67h40 for the 900km rather than 4.5 days (108h).
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What Audax don't want is for someone to organise a 2550km DIY with a time limit of 10 days 15 hours, ride constantly with short stops and no sleep until they are completely exhausted; and then keeling over and expiring in a hedge.
At least the rider would get his/her name in the obituaries column.
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I thought in the DIY by GPS guide the was a limit on distance for this type of ride. Is this incorrect?
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The problem with that is you go from 1000km in 5 days (120h), as part of a long ride > 2499km, to having to do the 1000km in 75 hours (13.3kph), that's a difference of 45 hours!
Hence the reason I am thinking about upping the distance to take me into that cartography... Just trying to work out if there is another way to do it....
Although get less time to ride, get more breaks "off the clock", if did that way. Would take a couple of days off between rides (each about 32 hours out the saddle eg 10pm stop riding, day off, start riding 6am), Plus would break 1000km up so got some long nights off (12 hours out the saddle). Need to do maths and see how could be fitted in with 24 hour days, but may work out similar due to amount of time taken out "off the clock" between the various sections....
One approach would be to decide how far want to cycle each day (200, 300 or 400km) can easily average 14.3km over these distances, then take time between the rides as rest "off the clock". Also with DIY by GPS rules can leave decisions till the last minute depending on how I feel/weather as don't need to send virtual brevet card off till 1 min before you ride....
Would be more over distance involved if broken up into more sections but that's not a big deal to me.
My problem scheduleding the ride to audax timing only exists because I want to take a few days off as part of the ride.
Plenty of different ways to do it, 200km a day average over 14.5 days would be my first choice, but looking at all the options. Need definite answers if would be 14.5 days for 2500km and if can fall behind maximum times and make up later on DIY by GPS)
EDIT Jord, just looked and appears maximum distance for DIY (GPS or not) is 1000km???? Seems strange.... looks like going to have to break ride up....
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I thought in the DIY by GPS guide the was a limit on distance for this type of ride. Is this incorrect?
It says "up to 1,000 km".
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I've had a 1300km DIY validated. You should contact your DIY org for clarification.
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Unless it's a "recent" (which I define as after 2003) rule there's no maximum lengh for permanent rides.
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The problem with that is you go from 1000km in 5 days (120h), as part of a long ride > 2499km, to having to do the 1000km in 75 hours (13.3kph), that's a difference of 45 hours!
Hence the reason I am thinking about upping the distance to take me into that cartography... Just trying to work out if there is another way to do it....
Although get less time to ride, get more breaks "off the clock", if did that way. Would take a couple of days off between rides (each about 32 hours out the saddle eg 10pm stop riding, day off, start riding 6am), Plus would break 1000km up so got some long nights off (12 hours out the saddle). Need to do maths and see how could be fitted in with 24 hour days, but may work out similar due to amount of time taken out "off the clock" between the various sections....
But a DIY 1000km must be done within 75 hours, plus 32 hours off the bike (107h) is still 13 hours less then the 120hours you get for that 1000km portion of a 2500km ride.
1000km in 75 hours.
32 hours off
400km in 28 hours (14.3kph)
32 hours off
900km in 67h40m
= 234.4 hours
2500km in 12.5 days = 300 hours.
So you're still better off with doing it all in one go.
It does, however, depend on whether being out of time for some of the intermediate controls is a problem. With the above schedule (or a complete day off between rides) you'll be fine though.
To really push the schedule you could do:-
1000km in 75 hours.
45 hours off the bike.
400km in 28 hours.
20 hours off the bike.
900km in 108 hours.
And still always be within time (@200km per day).
But, obviously, with one ride you risk losing it all if something goes wrong.
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I thought in the DIY by GPS guide the was a limit on distance for this type of ride. Is this incorrect?
It says "up to 1,000 km".
probably; John has to create a specific distance on the website in order to enter a result for it; anything over 1000 would have to be created specially; hence not every permutation is offered. I now offer a DIY 500 following a request from one rider.
DIY orgs are able to validate rides up to 600km; anything longer is passed to John Ward for validation. And the DIY validation app applies a blanket minimum of 14.3kph which can be ignored for rides over 699 or under 200km
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If you can validate a longer ride it may be worth someone changing the DIY by GPS guide?
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You are right Greenback, the longer distance in one defiantly seems the way to go (if get the right answers to below...).
Think will contact the DIY via GPS organizer to see if can get definite answers to the following:-
Can you do DIY (via GPS) for rides over 1000km?
For a 2500km ride do you get 12 or 12 1/2 days?
Do you just have to hit the full distance point in the required time or are the minimum daily limits enforced on route (ie do you have to hit the intermediate controls at required times)?
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Studying the awards lists, there is a badge for a R1000 but not a medal.
Riding Randos longer than 1000 would count towards a 'Mileater'; and of course boost one's points tally.
An E2E BR only gets a R1000 badge ( plus the lovely E2E medal ) although its 1400.
The regs say
5.6 Distances: standard distances for events are 200, 300, 400 and 600 km but any distance over 200 km may be
offered.
5.7 (i)
"for events from 1900 to 2499 km - 10kph; and
for events over 2499 km, 200 km per day."
So I guess if one offers a R10,000, just keep riding 201 per day until fatigue sets in.
When it does, the DIY organiser should credit you with the distance rounded down to the nearest 100.
I couldn't see any objection,, :thumbsup:
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I thought any distance, Audax, commuting or whatever, counted for a Mileater.
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I thought any distance, Audax, commuting or whatever, counted for a Mileater.
Yes.
Riding Randos over 1000 don't have there individual medals. There isn't a R2000 medal, for instance, so a 2000 DIY will get 20 points and of course score to a Mileater total.
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You could always get a generic medal from Neville custom engraved. Not listed in the handbook any more?
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So I guess if one offers a R10,000, just keep riding 201 per day until fatigue sets in.
When it does, the DIY organiser should credit you with the distance rounded down to the nearest 100.
Eh?
200km per day is simply the formula for calculating time allowed for rides greater than 2,499km. It does not mean you have to ride 200km per day.
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I'm not sure you get a R1000 simply by riding a single 1000km event. As I understand it you need a minimum of 3 events to get an R1000.
Yup, the people that did just LEL in 2009 (such as Collin Ainsworth) aren't listed in the R1000 listings for 2009.
So I guess if one offers a R10,000, just keep riding 201 per day until fatigue sets in.
When it does, the DIY organiser should credit you with the distance rounded down to the nearest 100.
Not really. For a ride to be validated you need to nominate what you are going to achieve before starting and, when finished, submit the proof for validation.
You either complete what you set out to achieve or you don't. You don't get anything for bailing out part way or completing less than you said you would, even if you were 99% of the way through your nominated ride.
The Mile-eater award is simply a log of distance traveled. There's no forward planning or proof of any kind required.
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... just keep riding 201 per day until fatigue sets in.
When it does, the DIY organiser should credit you with the distance rounded down to the nearest 100.
...provided (as I understand it) that you've previously stated that distance on your entry. Edit: beaten to it by GB
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A 2400km ride would be 240hrs but a 2500km ride would be 300hrs (24x12, +12).
Like all other DIY rides you'd need to specify controls at about 75-100km apart.
You could do it as a series of shorter rides and get the same points, but you'll have to be faster.
If you stopped halfway through a 2500 you'd get no points, so its a choice between shorter time or no points if anything happened.
Rich
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So I guess if one offers a R10,000, just keep riding 201 per day until fatigue sets in.
When it does, the DIY organiser should credit you with the distance rounded down to the nearest 100.
Eh?
200km per day is simply the formula for calculating time allowed for rides greater than 2,499km. It does not mean you have to ride 200km per day.
No it doesn't. One can ride 200 km from 08:00 to 19:00 and then have a shower, change and a nice meal in a hotel along the route; a decent kip and a hearty breakfast before riding the next day's 200.
Now why would AUK print "for events over 2499 km, 200 km per day" and not "for events over 2499 km, 8.33 kmh"?
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Now why would AUK print "for events over 2499 km, 200 km per day" and not "for events over 2499 km, 8.33 kmh"?
Because it's a bit easier to understand, maybe?
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200km per day is simply the formula for calculating time allowed for rides greater than 2,499km. It does not mean you have to ride 200km per day.
sure about that ?
I seem to recall a bit of a heated debate some years ago, when differing interpretations of that rule were deciding factors in the club points championship ;)
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200km per day is simply the formula for calculating time allowed for rides greater than 2,499km. It does not mean you have to ride 200km per day.
sure about that ?
I seem to recall a bit of a heated debate some years ago, when differing interpretations of that rule were deciding factors in the club points championship ;)
Well, I'm pretty sure about it. ;D
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An E2E BR only gets a R1000 badge ( plus the lovely E2E medal ) although its 1400.
A Randonneur 1,000 has ridden 100, 200 and 300km events, plus others to a total of 1,000km, longer distances can substitute.
here (http://www.aukweb.net/results/detail/this/r1000/)
I would have thought the E2E BR was an excellent way to finish an AUK (as opposed to ACP) Brevet 5000
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An E2E BR only gets a R1000 badge ( plus the lovely E2E medal ) although its 1400.
A Randonneur 1,000 has ridden 100, 200 and 300km events, plus others to a total of 1,000km, longer distances can substitute.
here (http://www.aukweb.net/results/detail/this/r1000/)
I would have thought the E2E BR was an excellent way to finish an AUK (as opposed to ACP) Brevet 5000
Talking about slightly different things. The Randonneur 1000 award is as described in the Handbook. If you complete a 1000 km brevet at randonneur pace (75 hrs), you can purchase a 1000 km badge (and a medal) but I can't find the badge and medal gallery in the current website. Longer rides can substitute for shorter, so you can complete E2E at randonneur pace and earn a 1000 ride award.
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200km per day is simply the formula for calculating time allowed for rides greater than 2,499km. It does not mean you have to ride 200km per day.
sure about that ?
I seem to recall a bit of a heated debate some years ago, when differing interpretations of that rule were deciding factors in the club points championship ;)
wasn't it that they didn't ride 200 every day; and as a result picked up less points than intended?
btw I was intending to do a 1000km PROFS down France in 2012 but Sweden (with luggage) put me off the idea...
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What's better for moral and happiness?
a/ 205 - 210 km per day and sleep in a hotel with good nosh, or
b/ Slog on to dusk and kip in a bus shelter?
b/ its supposed to be 'Self sufficiency'.... ain't it? ;)
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b/ its supposed to be 'Self sufficiency'.... ain't it? ;)
on the ride yes; when the ride ends beer bed and nosh is obligatory
for me at least...
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200km per day is simply the formula for calculating time allowed for rides greater than 2,499km. It does not mean you have to ride 200km per day.
sure about that ?
I seem to recall a bit of a heated debate some years ago, when differing interpretations of that rule were deciding factors in the club points championship ;)
wasn't it that they didn't ride 200 every day; and as a result picked up less points than intended?
Two groups riding the same route to different schedules got tangled up to the detriment of the more audacious group. It only became an 'issue' when it became apparent that this would decide the club championship (ref: Armstrong, 'every second counts; the problem is that at the time you don't know which seconds they are'). Several years later (...) we can agree a reasonable and amicable compromise was reached which did not in fact change the result of the championship.
At least not as much as the fact that for various reasons I DNF'd three 600s after 300km that year...
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Which raises the question about check/control points along the route being 'proofed' pro-rata.
Can you get to the first control at 32 kmh, the second control at 13 kmh but finish overall at 20 kmh?
Or have I missed something ?
I always thought each and every control had 15 - 30 kmh speed limits, and I plan my DIYs accordingly.
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There's two answers to that question
The first is that some rides have variable speed limits as they progress, with the minimum speed getting more relaxed as the ride progresses
The second is that many orgs have a relaxed attitude to intermediate controls times as long as the ride is finished overall in within the max. time allowance
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What's better for moral and happiness?
a/ 205 - 210 km per day and sleep in a hotel with good nosh, or
b/ Slog on to dusk and kip in a bus shelter?
b/ its supposed to be 'Self sufficiency'.... ain't it? ;)
It's supposed to be "long disatnce cycling".
If you say that X miles (in Z hours) is a long distance ride then how you achieve X miles in Z hours should be irrelevant.
[to self]No. No. No.. Wobbly don't feed the troll.[/to self]
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Which raises the question about check/control points along the route being 'proofed' pro-rata.
Can you get to the first control at 32 kmh, the second control at 13 kmh but finish overall at 20 kmh?
Some people have had time added on for being too fast at intermediate controls, i.e.
200km event with a roaring tailwind for the first 80km and then the wind drops.
Riders complete the first 80km in 2 hours (thanks to the tailwind) and then take 6 hours to do the remaining 120km to the finish (doing a steady 20km per hour).
The riders were 40 minutes early at the first control, so this is added to the final ride time giving 8h40m. Still within time for a 200km ride though (there are scenarios where you could end up being out of time if you take too long coming back, despite finishing the whole thing within the time limit - don't know if this has ever actually happened or been enforced though).
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On the other end of the scale, I don't know what the minumum speed for a DIY BP is - I've just had a friend complete a 50 at 14kpm (rather than 14.3). Is it worth submitting this result for validation?
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Did we ever get confirmation on what the situation is for DIY's greater than 1000km ?
J
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On the other end of the scale, I don't know what the minumum speed for a DIY BP is - I've just had a friend complete a 50 at 14kpm (rather than 14.3). Is it worth submitting this result for validation?
Certainly. Minimum speed for DIYs under 200 km is 10km/hour.
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Did we ever get confirmation on what the situation is for DIY's greater than 1000km ?
Isn't it in the post at the start of (page 1 of) this thread?
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... except the regulation quoted in the first post has been superseded, and the current version has detail differences germane both to 1000km and 2498km (original question and answer) distances.
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I haven't broken the 2500km+ DIY distance yet. Next year hopefully. But I assume as the rule says a minimum of 200km EVERY DAY. If I want to go and do 2x 300km days I do not assume I have a days rest. I do assume that if I start late on the first day I don't have to hit 200km, as with finishing on the final day. Just that every day in between needs to be 200km or more; that isn't to say I couldn't continue past midnight, have all day off for a bit of sight seeing and a nap, then begin late evening and continue through doing 200 |+100, 'day off', 100 |+200
Why do people ride 600km DIYs? Make it 700 and benefit from all the extra time to have a proper sleep (and go to the pub!)
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But I assume as the rule says a minimum of 200km EVERY DAY. If I want to go and do 2x 300km days I do not assume I have a days rest.
That original post is 7 years old, and the rule doesn't say that any more.
The current equivalent text:
9.7.1 The minimum speeds are:
- for events registered as 200 to 600 km – set by the organiser within the range 14.3 to 15kph;
- for events registered as 700 to 1200 km - 13-1/3 kph;
- for events registered as 1300 to 1800 km - 12 kph;
- for events registered as 1900 to 2400 km - 10 kph; and
- for events registered as 2500 km and over - 8-1/3 kph.
So your only question now is, how much time flexibility do you have at intermediate stops (controls)? Personally I think it's quite ridiculous to even think about passing times at unstaffed (includes all DIY) controls, but that's not the official view. That said, I don't see a very long bike ride as an excuse for a serial sleepover (disclaimer, never done more than 1400km).
Looking at the 1000km question, the time limit is 75h (for exactly 1000) under the current regulation, but was 75h12m under the old regulation quoted in the OP.
The (hypothetical, I hope) 2498km would surely be 'registered as 2500' and not as a 2400, and so would have a time limit of 300h.
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On the other end of the scale, I don't know what the minumum speed for a DIY BP is - I've just had a friend complete a 50 at 14kpm (rather than 14.3). Is it worth submitting this result for validation?
It would be what is on the entry form (or at least used to be in the days of proper entry forms), but since there's no official minimum speed for a BP (only a recommendation) then I would hope that the DIY organiser would validate it on the basis that they're generally looking for reasons to validate rides (not for reasons to prevent validation) and having the wrong minimum speed is just an administrative mistake.
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Why do people ride 600km DIYs? Make it 700 and benefit from all the extra time to have a proper sleep (and go to the pub!)
Because a 600 can be started Saturday morning and finished Sunday evening, so can be more easily fitted into any free weekend without encroaching into the preceding Friday or following Monday.
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Why do people ride 600km DIYs? Make it 700 and benefit from all the extra time to have a proper sleep (and go to the pub!)
Because a 600 can be started Saturday morning and finished Sunday evening, so can be more easily fitted into any free weekend without encroaching into the preceding Friday or following Monday.
I think the real reason is that most people haven't even considered this "loophole"; but Citoyen is right - requiring another 12* hours for the event would often be a disadvantage.
*EDITed! Is that right now??
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But I assume as the rule says a minimum of 200km EVERY DAY. If I want to go and do 2x 300km days I do not assume I have a days rest.
That original post is 7 years old, and the rule doesn't say that any more.
The current equivalent text:
9.7.1 The minimum speeds are:
- for events registered as 200 to 600 km – set by the organiser within the range 14.3 to 15kph;
- for events registered as 700 to 1200 km - 13-1/3 kph;
- for events registered as 1300 to 1800 km - 12 kph;
- for events registered as 1900 to 2400 km - 10 kph; and
- for events registered as 2500 km and over - 8-1/3 kph.
So your only question now is, how much time flexibility do you have at intermediate stops (controls)? Personally I think it's quite ridiculous to even think about passing times at unstaffed (includes all DIY) controls, but that's not the official view. That said, I don't see a very long bike ride as an excuse for a serial sleepover (disclaimer, never done more than 1400km).
Should there be some 99's in there? What happens between 1200 and 1300 for example?
J
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1299 is a 1200.
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9.6.1 Distances are registered and validated in increments of 100 km from 200km upwards.
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1299 is a 1200.
Why isn't it written as 200-699, 700-1299, 1300-1899, 1900-2499, 2500+ ?
Surely that would make it less ambiguous?
J
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It would be less ambiguous for AUK to define what bicycle lighting is but it isn't necessary.
9.6.1 defines ride distance increments, basically when X00 km appears on the odometer/ route website/ whatever.
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1299 is a 1200.
Why isn't it written as 200-699, 700-1299, 1300-1899, 1900-2499, 2500+ ?
Surely that would make it less ambiguous?
J
Because of 1299.5
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Although in practice a 1299 would surely be regarded as close enough to a 1300?
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So does that mean a 1800km gets 150 hours, and 1860km gets 155 hours, or 150 hours? The validated in multiples of 100km confuses me.
J
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BRs calculate minimum average speed for the actual ride distance. Riders get 'time credit' for riding beyond the nominal ride distance, 'Xxx'. The rides get validated for the nominal distance, 'X00km'.
BRMs have fixed time limits for nominal distance, so average speed means very little. Riders get no credit for over-distance.
It depends on the ride organiser and/ or validator whether or not 1299 = 1300.
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BRs calculate minimum average speed for the actual ride distance. Riders get 'time credit' for riding beyond the nominal ride distance. The ride get validated for the nominal distance 'X00km'.
BRMs have fixed time limits for nominal distance, so average speed means very little. Riders get no credit for over-distance.
Surely all AUK DIY's are BR or BP, and can't by definition be BRM?
J
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I believe the answer to that is "Yes, obviously!"
The same time limits apply to both calendar events and perms that are BRs or BPs.
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Although in practice a 1299 would surely be regarded as close enough to a 1300?
I would say so - but I know some others in high authority don't agree.
Put it this way - 1km in 1300 is about 0.08% of the total distance. What distance-measuring tools do we use that are reliable to this sort of accuracy?
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Although in practice a 1299 would surely be regarded as close enough to a 1300?
I would say so - but I know some others in high authority don't agree.
Put it this way - 1km in 1300 is about 0.08% of the total distance. What distance-measuring tools do we use that are reliable to this sort of accuracy?
Quite. And it's presumably for this reason that in other discussions on this subject, at least two of the DIY regional organisers have said that they would accept a route that was a couple of km under distance.
In line with what LWaB says, it's probably best to think of the 100km increments in nominal distances as being indivisible, and whether an actual route distance is rounded up or down should be decided on a case-by-case basis.
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Why do people ride 600km DIYs? Make it 700 and benefit from all the extra time to have a proper sleep (and go to the pub!)
Because a 600 can be started Saturday morning and finished Sunday evening, so can be more easily fitted into any free weekend without encroaching into the preceding Friday or following Monday.
I think the real reason is that most people haven't even considered this "loophole"; but Citoyen is right - requiring another 12* hours for the event would often be a disadvantage.
*EDITed! Is that right now??
When I did my DIY 600 last year, the actual distance was nearer 650km and I did consider rounding it up to 700, although I didn't realise that this would mean a more relaxed time allowance and in any case, I would still have had to be home on the Sunday evening.
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I haven't broken the 2500km+ DIY distance yet. Next year hopefully. But I assume as the rule says a minimum of 200km EVERY DAY. If I want to go and do 2x 300km days I do not assume I have a days rest. I do assume that if I start late on the first day I don't have to hit 200km, as with finishing on the final day. Just that every day in between needs to be 200km or more; that isn't to say I couldn't continue past midnight, have all day off for a bit of sight seeing and a nap, then begin late evening and continue through doing 200 |+100, 'day off', 100 |+200
Why do people ride 600km DIYs? Make it 700 and benefit from all the extra time to have a proper sleep (and go to the pub!)
All this extra time you think you are benefiting from is time when you woukd normally be asleep either on Friday night or Sunday night.
E.g. I tend to wake each day at 7 and go to bed at midnight. So starting at 7am my 42 hour limit on a 600 takes me to 1am on Monday. 34 of those 42 hours are the time I would normally be awake.
Starting a 700 at the same time gives you until 11am to finish, but of those 52 hours I only get 4 more in time I would normally be asleep so unless i can ride at 25km/h non stop for 4 hours I would be losing more sleep than on a 600.
Anyone who cannot bank enough time for a decent sleep on a 600 would be losing sleep on Friday and Sunday night to get a decent Saturday night. Poor trade.
800 makes more sense 60 hours limit means starting at 7am gives you until 7pm on day 3 so you can ride 3 days of 267km in 12 hours each giving ample time to relax overnight.
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That original post is 7 years old, and the rule doesn't say that any more.
Missed that and hadn't noticed the rule change, must have been 'recent'.
Why do people ride 600km DIYs? Make it 700 and benefit from all the extra time to have a proper sleep (and go to the pub!)
Because a 600 can be started Saturday morning and finished Sunday evening, so can be more easily fitted into any free weekend without encroaching into the preceding Friday or following Monday.
I think the real reason is that most people haven't even considered this "loophole"; but Citoyen is right - requiring another 12* hours for the event would often be a disadvantage.
*EDITed! Is that right now??
In all likelihood you wouldn't be going out on the lash on a Friday night if heading off on a 600 the following morning. I've done a few 700s now and find that extra 10hrs make for a very comfortable ride. You can spin it many ways. Start late and go through the first night giving you plenty of time off on the second night. Put the kid(s) to bed, nip out for a 100-150 and sleep at home ready for their breakfast then head off for the rest and still get a good sleep the second night. It's the way forward! IMHO ;D
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800 makes more sense 60 hours limit means starting at 7am gives you until 7pm on day 3 so you can ride 3 days of 267km in 12 hours each giving ample time to relax overnight.
Yep the longer the better, but if you are constrained to a weekend 700 gives you one extra point and you can get 2 good sleeps in if you wish.
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In all likelihood you wouldn't be going out on the lash on a Friday night if heading off on a 600 the following morning.
Blimey.
Randonneuring *has* changed, hasn't it...
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Austerity strikes. Pub budget cut backs. I have to rely on DIY now. At least the DNF of a beer at home is greatly reduced as you don't have to factor in stumbling back from a pub before heading off into the night.....
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On the other end of the scale, I don't know what the minumum speed for a DIY BP is - I've just had a friend complete a 50 at 14kpm (rather than 14.3). Is it worth submitting this result for validation?
Certainly. Minimum speed for DIYs under 200 km is 10km/hour.
Can I ask where this is written down? I've checked AUKWEB, and cannot find this anywhere.
I'm looking to do a few mandatory route DIY rides next year which will be under 200km, but I will be wanting to collect the AAA points.
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The regulations for BPs say. http://www.aukweb.net/_resources/files/official/AUK_Regulations_050418.pdf
12.3 Speeds: The minimum speed may be further relaxed at the discretion of the AUK events secretary
A minimum of 10 - 12.5 km/ph and maximum of 20 - 25 km/ph is normal practice.
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The regulations for BPs say. http://www.aukweb.net/_resources/files/official/AUK_Regulations_050418.pdf
12.3 Speeds: The minimum speed may be further relaxed at the discretion of the AUK events secretary
A minimum of 10 - 12.5 km/ph and maximum of 20 - 25 km/ph is normal practice.
Thank you for the link and quote.
How does that work in practice? My planned rides are off-road and rather hilly, so likely to be slow going. I can just enter them as mandatory route DIYs, but it would be helpful to understand what cut-off I should be aiming for. One way would be to contact the AUK events secretary before each ride, and then forward the response to the DIY organiser to ensure the validation is against an agreed minimum speed. But that sounds too laborious for all involved.
Is there a reason why the minimum is not fixed, as it is for events of 200km and above?
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The comment about the Events Secretary is aimed at organisers not riders. It's so that organisers putting on calendar events with minimum average speeds <10kph are aware of the implications (a calendar 100km BP with a minimum average speed of 5kph would require the organiser to potentially hang around for 20 hours for the last riders).
DIYs are a different kettle of fish, just email the DIY organiser (who may have to check, or has already checked, with the Event Secretary just once) and ask if there's any problem with them validating a BP with a minimum speed below 10kph. I bet they won't have a problem.
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... and ask if there's any problem with them validating a BP with a minimum speed below 10kph.
If I earn a AAA badge from doing rides at 8kph, how many kittens will die?
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... just email the DIY organiser ... and ask if there's any problem with them validating a BP with a minimum speed below 10kph
Perfect, thank you. I'm not looking for anything below 10km/h.
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... and ask if there's any problem with them validating a BP with a minimum speed below 10kph.
If I earn a AAA badge from doing rides at 8kph, how many kittens will die?
You can do this one again and again at 8.3kph: http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/SS23/
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... except the regulation quoted in the first post has been superseded, and the current version has detail differences germane both to 1000km and 2498km (original question and answer) distances.
Belated thanks for pointing that out, FF. It's an improvement that I should have been familiar with.