Disc brakes in the pro peloton

[mzjo]

Watching the Tour of Catalonia 6th stage today there were two riders up the road of which one, Schachmann of the Quickstep, was riding a disc-braked S-Works. Looking down the bunch I couldn't see any other discs, even among the other Quickstep riders. I have not followed the UCI's position on discs in the pro pelotons. What is the current position? How does a pro team manage to service discs and calipers in the same race?

Mods, if you feel this should be in the racing thread please move it - I am assuming it is of more general interest.

[yoav]

Disc brakes are allowed in pro road racing from the year. Also at all levels in U.K.

And it will create headaches for service course, esp if riders from the same team choose different braking systems, and god knows what neutral service is going to do. But that’s not the UCI’s or British Cycling’s problem.

[giropaul]

The situation is, I believe, that teams can use disc brakes on a trial basis.
Last season saw quite a lot of use. This year, even in races like Strade Bianca and wet Belgian races they have been rare.
The best explanation of this I have seen is that last year the sponsoring manufacturers put pressure on teams to be seen with discs. Now that the disc has been established on “ sportive” and “ gravel” bikes the manufacturers have eased off.
You are right, discs make wheel changes much, much longer. That’s a key reason why teams don’t use them.
Strangely ( in my view) British Cycling jumped the UCI gun and have allowed discs in domestic racing - apparently to ease the way for sportive riders who want to try racing!

[mattc]

Mods, if you feel this should be in the racing thread please move it - I am assuming it is of more general interest.

I think you mean the "Wiggo is a big fat cheat" forum! that's pretty much all they want to talk about.

has Wiggo (or Sky) cheated by using the wrong sort of discs?!?

[mzjo]

Thanks for those explanations. In my mind I was still at the stage where the experiment had been stopped by the UCI. I did wonder if what I saw was a break being allowed to help the sponsors (with little hope that it would go to the line - but then for various reasons I couldn't watch right to the finish). It is not the first time I think I have seen discs in a pro race this year but it is the first time the camera has panned the whole bike to give a good close-up view. Spotting them in the middle of the bunch ios a bit more difficult because the cameras tend to concentrate on the riders not the hubs.
This made me think a bit of Phil Anderson showing off his Kirk magnesium bike on the Paris stage of a TdF (1988 or 89, I think, before I moved to France). The pros have to help the sponsors from time to time, that's why they're pros!

[mzjo]

Mods, if you feel this should be in the racing thread please move it - I am assuming it is of more general interest.

I think you mean the "Wiggo is a big fat cheat" forum! that's pretty much all they want to talk about.

has Wiggo (or Sky) cheated by using the wrong sort of discs?!?

I cannot claim total innocence in this matter 

[Samuel D]

How does a pro team manage to service discs and calipers in the same race?

So far, I have not seen a team attempt to change a wheel on a disc-braked bicycle in a race. They have simply changed the whole bicycle in every instance I’ve seen.

It’s a pity that all sorts of expensive, pointless things have been allowed into racing: disc wheels, radios, electric shifting, and now disc brakes. None of them have added anything to the racing and have often detracted from it while increasing costs for everyone. Of course it is all justified by saying that manufacturers need to showcase innovation they can sell to the public. I’m insensitive to that argument because I don’t care about the size and profitability of the bicycle industry. There would be other sponsors if bicycle manufacturers weren’t there, and that arrangement with fewer vested interests would be better for the sport. The big bicycle manufacturers have become too influential in road racing.

[PaulF]

Mods, if you feel this should be in the racing thread please move it - I am assuming it is of more general interest.

I think you mean the "Wiggo is a big fat cheat" forum! that's pretty much all they want to talk about.

has Wiggo (or Sky) cheated by using the wrong sort of discs?!?

Well he did cut someone's head with one* so I'd say yes.

*Allegedly, or I may have just made it up I'm not sure

[cygnet]

Also at all levels in U.K.

Does anyone know about overseas? The FFCT/ASO had issues when they were last introduced I know, (e.g. being disallowed in the Etape etc)

[mattc]

Mods, if you feel this should be in the racing thread please move it - I am assuming it is of more general interest.

I think you mean the "Wiggo is a big fat cheat" forum! that's pretty much all they want to talk about.

has Wiggo (or Sky) cheated by using the wrong sort of discs?!?

Well he did cut someone's head with one* so I'd say yes.

*Allegedly, or I may have just made it up I'm not sure

I hope Sky have detailed records of what discs they've used, on what day, where, and whose heads they've cut. We demand full transparency!!! Anything less is pretty much a clear admission of guilt. 

[Samuel D]

Mattc: don’t get them started in this thread too!

[mattc]

Mattc: don’t get them started in this thread too!

Sorry. I've clearly let it get to me 

[Karla]

How does a pro team manage to service discs and calipers in the same race?

So far, I have not seen a team attempt to change a wheel on a disc-braked bicycle in a race. They have simply changed the whole bicycle in every instance I’ve seen.

[luddite rant]

Yawn.  If you don't want to go faster on a bike, go get a pair of trainers and start running.

[mattc]

How does a pro team manage to service discs and calipers in the same race?

So far, I have not seen a team attempt to change a wheel on a disc-braked bicycle in a race. They have simply changed the whole bicycle in every instance I’ve seen.

[luddite rant]

Yawn.  If you don't want to go faster on a bike, go get a pair of trainers and start running.

got a motor yet Karla?

[mrcharly-YHT]

How does a pro team manage to service discs and calipers in the same race?

So far, I have not seen a team attempt to change a wheel on a disc-braked bicycle in a race. They have simply changed the whole bicycle in every instance I’ve seen.

It’s a pity that all sorts of expensive, pointless things have been allowed into racing: disc wheels, radios, electric shifting, and now disc brakes. None of them have added anything to the racing and have often detracted from it while increasing costs for everyone.

Oh, I absolutely agree. They should be riding on fixed gear. Steel frames only.

People who do super long-distance racing (RAAM, TransAM and suchlike) think highly of electronic shifting.

[hubner]

How does a pro team manage to service discs and calipers in the same race?

So far, I have not seen a team attempt to change a wheel on a disc-braked bicycle in a race. They have simply changed the whole bicycle in every instance I’ve seen.

[luddite rant]

Yawn.  If you don't want to go faster on a bike, go get a pair of trainers and start running.

For rider to rider pro racing, it doesn't matter anyway. If one rider has a bit of kit that gives them an advantage then everyone else should be using it if it's going to be allowed; result is no advantage.

For amateurs, I suppose having faster bikes would make a difference for people doing TT personal bests, but not in a race against other riders.

[Samuel D]

Karla and mrcharly-YHT: you can do better than that low form of wit.

Hubner: but disc brakes give a disadvantage, not an advantage, as Lennard Zinn describes here (scroll down to “Rim brakes vs. disc brakes”).

Granted, the difference is negligible, so the best man wins anyway (unless he gets a puncture; see below). Marginal gains or marginal losses conferred by technology are less important than Trek and Specialized wish we believed.

The question remains how to change a disc-brake wheel quickly or service a mixed fleet in a race. There’s presently no satisfactory answer, but the pressure to get this technology on television is strong enough that it gets raced anyway.

[Karla]

How does a pro team manage to service discs and calipers in the same race?

So far, I have not seen a team attempt to change a wheel on a disc-braked bicycle in a race. They have simply changed the whole bicycle in every instance I’ve seen.

[luddite rant]

Yawn.  If you don't want to go faster on a bike, go get a pair of trainers and start running.

got a motor yet Karla?

Yes, but it got nicked.

[zigzag]

global cycling industry is too small and poor to hire highly skilled engineers and product designers, hence many new products are released as beta versions to be tested and adopted/rejected by consumers. some products catch on and evolve, others stay as they are or disappear. without innovation (flawed as it is) the industry would not survive.

[hubner]

but disc brakes give a disadvantage, not an advantage, as Lennard Zinn describes here (scroll down to “Rim brakes vs. disc brakes”).

My point was really about riders in a race should have bikes of the same performance. Either everyone has disc brakes, disc wheels etc or no one has them.

[sojournermike]

Mods, if you feel this should be in the racing thread please move it - I am assuming it is of more general interest.

I think you mean the "Wiggo is a big fat cheat" forum! that's pretty much all they want to talk about.

has Wiggo (or Sky) cheated by using the wrong sort of discs?!?

He certainly wasn’t fat when he was (allegedly) cheating, any more Han Froome is fat;)

I’ll get me coat

[Karla]

but disc brakes give a disadvantage, not an advantage, as Lennard Zinn describes here (scroll down to “Rim brakes vs. disc brakes”).

My point was really about riders in a race should have bikes of the same performance. Either everyone has disc brakes, disc wheels etc or no one has them.

What, like exactly the same?  Like in strict one-design dinghy racing?  Because even there, people find advantages.  Usually it makes racing more expensive and exclusive, not less, because it means it's the competitors with lots of time and money who can work out which subtle advancements are actually useful, and who can buy a new set of sails every season.  I remember Chris Boardman saying the same when the UCI introduced restrictions on something or other: that BC had the resources to fund the fine measurement labs that could differentiate what gave them a performance advantage, while everyone else was reduced to guesswork. 

Face it, cycling is a sport that is fundamentally about using technology to enhance man's capabilities.  If you don't like that, it isn't the sport for you. 

[Kim]

Face it, cycling is a sport that is fundamentally about using technology to enhance man's capabilities.

Just as long as they don't use too much technology...

[Hot Flatus]

If you don't have to pay for your own rims, you have a team of mechanics tuning brakes and replacing cable inners and outers, and you are racing on closed roads with no surprises then I'm not really sure what the advantage is of disc brakes in racing (other than for manufacturers)

I can see the advantage of electronic shifting in racing, but that is because I've been using it extensively for 2 years.

Let's not bring Wiggins and Sky's lying and cheating into this thread. Samuel and Matt have already been ripped a new one on that thread. They need time for it to heal.

[rafletcher]

global cycling industry is too small and poor to hire highly skilled engineers and product designers, hence many new products are released as beta versions to be tested and adopted/rejected by consumers....

I really don’t think that applies to Shimano, with 12,000 plus employees and a turnover of $2.5 billion in 2013.