Saddle life?

[quixoticgeek]

3600km ago I put a saddle on my bike, it's made by specialised, and it was the most comfortable sale during my bike fit. In the last few hundred km it's been getting more and more uncomfortable, and I had to pull out of a race at 20% distance the other day as the saddle was just too painful.

Do saddles have a life expectancy, after which they stop being comfortable? How far have you gone on your saddle?

I've now ordered a brookes, which being a brooks will of course last for ever with just and ever improving patina of use. But had I gone for a more modern saddle, what life would I expect?

J

[The French Tandem]

Do saddles have a life expectancy, after which they stop being comfortable?

All modern saddles are made of a plastic shell, possibly reinforced with fibers, and possibly covered with some padding or not! The plastic shell is not expected to change its shape under normal use. Mine is now 4 years old, and is still in perfect shape, even though I'm over 100 kg.

I've now ordered a brookes, which being a brooks will of course last for ever with just and ever improving patina of use.

That's unfortunately not true anymore. Modern Brooks tend to be made of thinner/cheaper leather that will ultimately stretch to the point where the saddle becomes unusable.

A

[Kim]

Do saddles have a life expectancy, after which they stop being comfortable?

About 5 minutes.  YMMV.

How far have you gone on your saddle?

My longest currently serving saddle (Spesialized Lithita) has done something of the order of 3000 miles, only noticeable change is that the ink's rubbed off a bit where they printed the name on it.  The BG saddle that it replaced had done about double that, and was looking tired in the stitching, but felt just fine.

But (shades of the when-do-you-replace-your-helmet thread) I've never come close to wearing a plastic saddle out.  They always seem to get damaged by something first.  Once the outer layer is torn, it's just a matter of time.  I suspect the typical bike-falling-onto-something-sharp event that leads to this sort of thing would only cause cosmetic damage to a leather saddle.

[hubner]

I've got the exact same saddle on my main bike for at least 15 years and there's no change in comfort. Saddle is the Selle Italia Turbo; plastic base covered with foam and leather. The rear corners on the top has started to wear, the black leather surface has worn away revealing the grey leather underneath. But that doesn't affect its ride. The first saddle I bought (Selle Italia "Hinault" Turbo, same saddle model) rides the same now as when it was new.

I've got several Turbos, one has a rear corner with the leather scraped off after a crash and it still rides OK.

Perhaps with modern lightweight saddles, the thickness of the plastic shell has been reduced so much that they loose their shape after relatively few miles.

If it's not the shell that has changed, maybe the foam has been affected.

[Ben T]

Concerned about saddle life so you ordered a brooks? isn't that a bit like ... well, something that's an oxymoron?

[Brucey]

I agree that saddles with plastic hulls (provided they are not built too complicated and/or light) last very well and in practice their life is usually limited by damage to the outer covering. On bikes that are used a lot in town, I often wear or damage the RHS of the saddle nose through constant mounting and dismounting.

However saddles with plastic hulls change far less than leather ones but do become more flexible over time. A while back I came across an unused spare plastic-hulled saddle in a box where it had been languishing for many years. Its partner (identical and bought at the same time) had done a lot of miles; the latter was appreciably more flexible than the unused one, but I could not see any deformation of the frame or cracks etc. 

I don't know what the mechanism for this is, exactly, but I note that in some plastics, when they are stressed, the molecules become aligned in one direction. You can see this quite clearly in some cases; for example the PE (bird strangling) thingy that is used to join beer cans in four-packs does this and the change is obvious. It may be that lower stresses cause a smaller but still significant effect in the plastic of some saddle hulls.

FWIW if you are using a leather saddle for the first time, look out for two things;

1) the rivets on some (mostly cheaper) models will chafe their way through your clothing; (the flush-beaten copper rivets are more than just an affectation) and

2) getting a traditional leather saddle wet means it can 'break in' in  single ride. However repeated wetting just knackers them.   I have pretty much given up using leather saddles because I have ruined a grand or two's worth of them over the years; since I am lucky enough to have a bum that works on some cheaper/more durable saddles (I like turbos too BTW) there is not much point in me using a leather saddle.

BTW some allegedly 'modern' designs (which have seemingly all been tried and rejected about 100 yeas ago in fact) have all kinds of weird cutouts and bits of gel in and all kinds of gimcrackery. IME none of these features improve longevity and few provide any worthwhile improvement in comfort in the long term.

cheers

[giropaul]

I’ve noticed that the saddles we use for Wattbikes ( of various types) don’t last long before they sag enough to make them uncomfortable. I notice that in use, the rails flex significantly, and ultimately that’s why the tension goes. I guess that some metals will be different to others.
I have sometimes used the old 6 day rider trick of jamming a thick rubber “ bumper” between the top of the seatpost and the saddle base.

[Roy]

I am still using a Brooks proffessional which I bought 'butchered' from Roy Swinnertons in Stoke in 1970. I have ridden thousands of miles on it, time trialled, road raced and toured. It is still in regular almost daily use. I can do centuries on it with no discomfort.

[Canardly]

Get some bathing caps and stick em in your bag, take seconds to put on the saddle.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Yup, plastic saddles can get more flexible over time and can creep to sag 'a bit'. Usually it takes a fair few years and miles though. Most folk don't notice the change as it happens so slowly. It is unlikely that your saddle has changed so drastically so soon. If you are having problems in <4000km, it is probably because of your bum or something else changing, not the saddle.

Brooks comment: After almost exclusively riding B17 saddles of various types for a couple of decades, I'm going through another saddle trial phase. The durability just isn't there any more, because of younger cattle, less durable tanning methods and less care by Brooks regarding orientation of leather grain. For what it is worth, for me the organically tanned Select models last about 3x as long as the modern Standard models. The 1970s-era Brooks saddles I've used seem almost indestructible. YMMV

You didn't ask for specific recommendations and what works for someone can be the worst possible option for somebody else, so ignore the following. The Rivet Pearl is the best match for me so far and has lasted exceedingly well for HK, lots of miles and rain since 2012. She does about 18,000 miles a year using about 4 bikes. Her Brooks B17S Imperial equivalents lasted less than 6 months each. Some people like to ride hammocks but we don't.

HK reminds me that there can be incompatibilities between specific combinations of shorts/ pads and saddles. Is this a possibility, have you started using a different model of shorts/ pad recently?

[T42]

My left leg is 11mm shorter than the other, and almost any plastic saddle is painful. That said, I rode about 14 years on a San Marco Aero, which has a soft gel nose that I seem to have done most of my sitting on. Since then I've done ~15,000 on a Selle Anatomica, which is made of supple leather and works very well with my asymmetric anatomy.  The only thing I don't like about them is that the current range have tacky aluminium labels at the back, but you can pop them off at cost of a couple of rivet holes.

I'd try a Rivet if someone would pay for it.  Selle Anatomica have Christmas offers at ~50% off, and occasionally sell off seconds that have minor cosmetic defects.

[bikepacker]

I'd try a Rivet if someone would pay for it.  Selle Anatomica have Christmas offers at ~50% off, and occasionally sell off seconds that have minor cosmetic defects.

Carradice loaned my a Rivet saddle to test, they may still do the same. I have had two Selle Anatomica saddle and didn't like them at all.

[Karla]

The Specialized saddle that I've had for most of ten years is a bit saggy, but it's done goodness knows how many thousands of miles by now.  If yours is sagging after such a short time it's either defective or else something else is the problem.

[T42]

I'd try a Rivet if someone would pay for it.  Selle Anatomica have Christmas offers at ~50% off, and occasionally sell off seconds that have minor cosmetic defects.

Carradice loaned my a Rivet saddle to test, they may still do the same. I have had two Selle Anatomica saddle and didn't like them at all.

They need to be laced, otherwise they splay out & cut into your legs, but once I'd done that mine turned into a wonderful bum-hammock.  It's the only saddle I've tried so far that I've found really comfortable.

[T42]

Brooks comment: After almost exclusively riding B17 saddles of various types for a couple of decades, I'm going through another saddle trial phase. The durability just isn't there any more, because of younger cattle, less durable tanning methods and less care by Brooks regarding orientation of leather grain. For what it is worth, for me the organically tanned Select models last about 3x as long as the modern Standard models. The 1970s-era Brooks saddles I've used seem almost indestructible. YMMV

Come to think of it, I have a Brooks Swift with Ti rails that I bought in 2006 and hardly used. Reckon it dates from before the degeneration?  It has a number cut in the underside, reading 0D5 if that's any indication.

[GrahamG]

The Specialized saddle that I've had for most of ten years is a bit saggy, but it's done goodness knows how many thousands of miles by now.  If yours is sagging after such a short time it's either defective or else something else is the problem.

Same here, a few thousand miles seems to be what the newer toupe sales need to just bed in a little for me.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Brooks comment: After almost exclusively riding B17 saddles of various types for a couple of decades, I'm going through another saddle trial phase. The durability just isn't there any more, because of younger cattle, less durable tanning methods and less care by Brooks regarding orientation of leather grain. For what it is worth, for me the organically tanned Select models last about 3x as long as the modern Standard models. The 1970s-era Brooks saddles I've used seem almost indestructible. YMMV

Come to think of it, I have a Brooks Swift with Ti rails that I bought in 2006 and hardly used. Reckon it dates from before the degeneration?  It has a number cut in the underside, reading 0D5 if that's any indication.

The Italians bought Brooks in 2002 but I am uncertain how quickly the manufacturing approach changed in Smethwick. Mad cow disease resulted in cattle being slaughtered younger. Don't know when the old tanning method was banned.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

I'd try a Rivet if someone would pay for it.  Selle Anatomica have Christmas offers at ~50% off, and occasionally sell off seconds that have minor cosmetic defects.

Carradice loaned my a Rivet saddle to test, they may still do the same. I have had two Selle Anatomica saddle and didn't like them at all.

They need to be laced, otherwise they splay out & cut into your legs, but once I'd done that mine turned into a wonderful bum-hammock.  It's the only saddle I've tried so far that I've found really comfortable.

I had to lace my Anatomica X to stop it killing my inner thighs. It is on its way out, due to the leather stretching. I see Anatomica keep reducing the maximum weight limits for their various saddles and recently introduced carbon and non-slotted versions. https://selleanatomica.com

[Oxford_Guy]

I can highly recommend the Gilles Berthoud leather saddles, especially the Aspin/Aravis models (the only difference between these two is that the former has steel rails, the later titanium) - the build quality on these I've found to be better than Brooks. especially the leather, which is much thicker. I've also found them to be far more comfortable (from day 1, though has got even more comfortable with use), at least on my drop-bar tourer. I use a Brooks saddle cover with mine to prevent it getting wet. They are quite expensive, but you do get what you pay for here.

http://www.gillesberthoud.fr/_en/selles/index.php

[Chamford Sideplate]

You might have piriformis syndrome.

[Dtcman]

I use Rolls Classics (plastic hull, leather top) and they just keep going. One is at least 20 years old and done well over 20k including 3 PBPs, LEL and LEJOG and still going strong.   

[Bolt]

Last week I replaced a broken tension bolt on a B17S without losing any blood, flesh or my temper.  Feeling motivated by my new found technique I did the same to another B17S that has been lying around broken for years.  Just as I was feeling that I might be learning to love leather again I went out for a spin on a seldom used bike that's fitted with a Spa Nidd.  20 minutes into the ride the nose cone the Nidd fractured in spectacular fashion sending an assortment of saddle related shrapnel across the road   Neither of these three motley examples of saddle shaped objects have done more than 3000km...

[Brucey]

Nidds break in the nose piece quite often. There is a nasty stress concentration in the corner where the metal is formed.  IIRC Spa should sort you out with some new parts.

cheers

[Bolt]

Nidds break in the nose piece quite often. There is a nasty stress concentration in the corner where the metal is formed.  IIRC Spa should sort you out with some new parts.

What puzzled me looking at the broken Nidd nose cone is that there is an extra hole drilled just forward of where the centre rivet goes, not sure whether it's a stress relieving measure or a mistake that's led to the failure?  One saving grace with the Nidd is that the leather is thick and stiff enough to carry on riding without any tension.  I just increased the tension on the laces that I'd fitted previously and I have to admit I couldn't feel any difference!

[Brucey]

the crack may have passed through that hole, and the hole may have hastened the failure, but I would imagine that the crack started in the corner. I have seen photos of nosepieces that have cracked but not yet broken, and that is where the cracks started.

cheers