Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: quixoticgeek on 05 March, 2019, 11:05:08 am
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Audaxes with ferries are relatively common, If I understand correctly, the time still counts, but the distance on the ferry doesn't. Is this the same for other bits where you have to take a motorised system due to the laws of physics or the land preventing you from doing the bit by bike? My thinking here is things like the dartford crossing, where they put you in a van and drive you across, or the fietsbus across the soon to be closed Afsluitdijk ? Is it treated the same way as a ferry? Clock keeps going, but the distance doesn't?
J
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Correct
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Yes, as I discovered when adding a trip to the Isle of Wight to a Dinner Dart from Basingstoke to Guildford. Crossing from Lymington to Yarmouth was not too time consuming but on the second crossing back to Portsmouth I just missed a ferry. That added well over an hour to the time and, for a moment put me at risk of not finishing in time. Worse still, it cut down on the drinking time at the AGM.
It is, however, the only ride I've done where I've ready a weekend newspaper cover to cover during the actual event. ;D
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Afsluitdijk
Gesundheit.
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Afsluitdijk
Gesundheit.
That genuinely made me laugh out loud. Thank you!
J
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Afsluitdijk
Why? I've done it twice and it's fine if extremely wind dependent
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You got extra time for the New Forest / IOW rides which involved 2 crossings
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I did the 150km New Forest/Isle of Wight ride several years ago and seem to remember no extra time for ferries. The clock started at the scheduled arrival time of the ferry in Yarmouth, and the next two ferries (short chain ferry crossing in Cowes and much longer crossing back to Lymington) had to be included in your time. Most people used the long crossing as a lunch break with the result that they sold out of sandwiches on the ferry! The trick was to arrive just in time for a ferry and not just too late. We checked the time at Cowes and speeded up a bit to achieve the magic 5 mins before departure cycle onto the boat.
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I rode the first On and Off Shore and just about managed to cycle onto the ferry without putting a foot down. We waved goodbye to the riders who turned up 5 minutes later just as the ramp lifted. There was no extra time allowed for ferry crossings, same as every brevet I've done with ferries.
The first Portuguese 1000 felt quite unfair at times, 1 km after starting the event you got your ticket before riding onto a lengthy ferry journey, so you were well behind the minimum average speed when you got off the ferry. There was another infrequent and lengthy ferry trip later that day that you had to board well inside minimum average speed, so it was a bit of a hammer session in the heat to make it. Miss the one achievable sailing for the second ferry and you were automatically well out of time. A Russian bloke had travelled a long way to the start and his ride ended on the first day.
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Ah, I'm now all teary-eyed* with memories of the Fishnish pish dish ;D
*Not really.
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Ah, I'm now all teary-eyed* with memories of the Fishnish pish dish ;D
*Not really.
That doesn't rhyme....
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Ah, I'm now all teary-eyed* with memories of the Fishnish pish dish ;D
*Not really.
That doesn't rhyme....
Maybe not, but it certainly does stir memories!
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Is it treated the same way as a ferry? Clock keeps going, but the distance doesn't?
I don't think there are any rules about this. It may usually be applied as you say, but I think common sense prevails, on a case-by-case basis. (I don't mean individual rides, but local conditions.)
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Ah, I'm now all teary-eyed* with memories of the Fishnish pish dish ;D
*Not really.
The Mull it Over 300 had 3 ferry crossings. But the first one was neutralised, as the clock didn't start until we landed on the island of Mull. The other ferries were short crossings, and frequent. It's not so much the time spent crossing, as the time spent waiting. Ferries make the ride quite sociable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdlUNP8MjNY
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I rode the first On and Off Shore and just about managed to cycle onto the ferry without putting a foot down. We waved goodbye to the riders who turned up 5 minutes later just as the ramp lifted. There was no extra time allowed for ferry crossings, same as every brevet I've done with ferries.
The first Portuguese 1000 felt quite unfair at times, i km after starting the event you got your ticket before riding onto a lengthy ferry journey, so you were well behind the minimum average speed when you got off the ferry. With another infrequent and lengthy ferry trip later that day that you had to board well under minimum average speed, so it was a bit of a hammer session in the heat. Miss the one achieveable sailing for the second ferry and you were automatically well out of time. A Russian bloke had travelled a long way to the start and his ride ended on the first day.
The sensible thing to have done would have been to issue brevet cards for a départ réel at the other end of the first ferry crossing, surely?
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Afsluitdijk
Why? I've done it twice and it's fine if extremely wind dependent
It's closed for road works for 3 years starting in April. So rather than the 200km detour, they offer a bus for cyclists from one end to the other, runs once an hour. Timetable to come. There's a thread with more info in the tours and rides section.
J
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Now the challenge is to include as many obscure modes of transport in an audax as possible.
Train, plane, helicopter, cable car, hovercraft?
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There's a Dutch BRM in May (Ronde van Texel), which has a ferry, twice. If I understand the route correctly, It starts late on the Friday, and the first ferry on Saturday morning is timed to match the min speed. So if you do the min speed, you'll get to ferry just in time. Does mean that you roll off the ferry behind time, have a 50 km loop on Texel, then back to the ferry, and onwards for to the finish for a total of 400. Each ferry crossing is under 30 minutes, but only runs every 30 minutes, so worst case if you have bad timing, you lose an hour to the ferry. If you are lucky you have a 30 min rest. I'm hoping there's something approximating food on the ferry.
Am really looking forward to it.
J
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I rode the first On and Off Shore and just about managed to cycle onto the ferry without putting a foot down. We waved goodbye to the riders who turned up 5 minutes later just as the ramp lifted. There was no extra time allowed for ferry crossings, same as every brevet I've done with ferries.
The first Portuguese 1000 felt quite unfair at times, i km after starting the event you got your ticket before riding onto a lengthy ferry journey, so you were well behind the minimum average speed when you got off the ferry. With another infrequent and lengthy ferry trip later that day that you had to board well under minimum average speed, so it was a bit of a hammer session in the heat. Miss the one achieveable sailing for the second ferry and you were automatically well out of time. A Russian bloke had travelled a long way to the start and his ride ended on the first day.
The sensible thing to have done would have been to issue brevet cards for a départ réel at the other end of the first ferry crossing, surely?
Yes, of course. New events often have some things that could be done a little better...
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The on/off shore did infact start on the isle of wight side after the crossing from mainland, so no time lost to start.
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The on/off shore did infact start on the isle of wight side after the crossing from mainland, so no time lost to start.
Yes, as mentioned by bhoot. I was talking about the third ferry of the day, back to the mainland. Mind you, I arrived late to the start, so was virtually the last to pick up my card, fairly close to the ferry departure time too. I kind of like the chain ferry but it is a bit cramped in comparison.
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Time to revisit the island and see the new cowes ferry, if it's working Oh don't take your car across
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Afsluitdijk
Why? I've done it twice and it's fine if extremely wind dependent
It's closed for road works for 3 years starting in April. So rather than the 200km detour, they offer a bus for cyclists from one end to the other, runs once an hour. Timetable to come. There's a thread with more info in the tours and rides section.
J
3 years! That makes Network Rail look quick.
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3 years! That makes Network Rail look quick.
It's a 32km defence keeping the north sea out on once side, and protecting millions of people from flooding on the other side. They aren't just resurfacing a cycle path, this is work to improve the 86 year old structure to better be ready for stronger storms and increases in sea level as climate change takes hold more and more. So yeah, 3 years is pretty good going really.
J
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Ok, slight variation on these scenarios. If you had an Audax route that involved a ferry as the only viable option to get across a river, yet for reasons the ferry was out of service, if there were no bridges in a sensible cycling distance, would back tracking 10k to a station, taking a train across the river, getting off at the first station, cycling back to the ferry terminal on the new side of the river, and then continuing on with the route, be acceptable, if you made no claim for extra time, and just swallowed the extra distance, would this be accepted, say on a DIY (I'm assuming on a calendar event this would be tripping up a lot more people, and the org would likely have a view) ?
J
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3 years! That makes Network Rail look quick.
It's a 32km defence keeping the north sea out on once side, and protecting millions of people from flooding on the other side. They aren't just resurfacing a cycle path, this is work to improve the 86 year old structure to better be ready for stronger storms and increases in sea level as climate change takes hold more and more. So yeah, 3 years is pretty good going really.
J
We need them at Dawlish!
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Ah, I'm now all teary-eyed* with memories of the Fishnish pish dish ;D
*Not really.
That doesn't rhyme....
A rhyme? You wish!
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Ok, slight variation on these scenarios. If you had an Audax route that involved a ferry as the only viable option to get across a river, yet for reasons the ferry was out of service, if there were no bridges in a sensible cycling distance, would back tracking 10k to a station, taking a train across the river, getting off at the first station, cycling back to the ferry terminal on the new side of the river, and then continuing on with the route, be acceptable, if you made no claim for extra time, and just swallowed the extra distance, would this be accepted, say on a DIY (I'm assuming on a calendar event this would be tripping up a lot more people, and the org would likely have a view) ?
I can't imagine any possible objection to that. In fact I'd say you wouldn't necessarily need to visit either ferry terminal as long as the total distance ridden didn't decrease.
(c.f. A normal road closure, where there would be no obligation to ride all the way up to the "Road Closed" signs at both ends of the detour - just choose a sensible alternative route)
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Ah, I'm now all teary-eyed* with memories of the Fishnish pish dish ;D
*Not really.
That doesn't rhyme....
Maybe not, but it certainly does stir memories!
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8523/8647313649_0b4db369e5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/eb8K5D)
IMG_1403 (https://flic.kr/p/eb8K5D) by The Pingus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/), on Flickr
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IIRC, they also wanted to charge us for taking photos of the wild birds.
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IIRC, they also wanted to charge us for taking photos of the wild birds.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8383/8647314981_a86411fd39_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/eb8KtB)
IMG_1402 (https://flic.kr/p/eb8KtB) by The Pingus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/), on Flickr
;D
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I can't imagine any possible objection to that. In fact I'd say you wouldn't necessarily need to visit either ferry terminal as long as the total distance ridden didn't decrease.
(c.f. A normal road closure, where there would be no obligation to ride all the way up to the "Road Closed" signs at both ends of the detour - just choose a sensible alternative route)
Ah yes. I'm conflating the TCR rules with borders you can't cross by bike. They require you to have a continuous cycling line, even if you have to take a bus for the actual border crossing...
J
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3 years! That makes Network Rail look quick.
It's a 32km defence keeping the north sea out on once side, and protecting millions of people from flooding on the other side. They aren't just resurfacing a cycle path, this is work to improve the 86 year old structure to better be ready for stronger storms and increases in sea level as climate change takes hold more and more. So yeah, 3 years is pretty good going really.
J
As I understand the Dutch are currently reviewing all of their sea defences with a view to what predicted sea levels will be in 2080 and starting to plan the necessary work. The UK is somewhat more haphazard in its planning.
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The default event distance on Double Dutch is via the West Lynn ferry rather than the bridge.
I doubt anyone will get back quicker that way though...
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IIRC, they also wanted to charge us for taking photos of the wild birds.
This'll be the café at Fishnish then?
I've been there once, just off the first ferry, full of people going to the island for the same reason and the woman running it was having a major huff about the "bloody rally" which was the source of her entire custom that morning.
(Feeshneesh, although for some reason it's Mihshnish above Tobermory which doesn't seem to fit with Gaelic pronunciation rules but then they're written in Stornoway, just ask an Islay Gaelic speaker about it...)
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Ok, slight variation on these scenarios. If you had an Audax route that involved a ferry as the only viable option to get across a river, yet for reasons the ferry was out of service, if there were no bridges in a sensible cycling distance, would back tracking 10k to a station, taking a train across the river, getting off at the first station, cycling back to the ferry terminal on the new side of the river, and then continuing on with the route, be acceptable, if you made no claim for extra time, and just swallowed the extra distance, would this be accepted, say on a DIY (I'm assuming on a calendar event this would be tripping up a lot more people, and the org would likely have a view) ?
I can't imagine any possible objection to that. In fact I'd say you wouldn't necessarily need to visit either ferry terminal as long as the total distance ridden didn't decrease.
(c.f. A normal road closure, where there would be no obligation to ride all the way up to the "Road Closed" signs at both ends of the detour - just choose a sensible alternative route)
Agreed. You'd need to mention the problem and what you did about it to the DIY Org, who would be looking for reasons to validate, rather than the opposite.
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3 years! That makes Network Rail look quick.
It's a 32km defence keeping the north sea out on once side, and protecting millions of people from flooding on the other side. They aren't just resurfacing a cycle path, this is work to improve the 86 year old structure to better be ready for stronger storms and increases in sea level as climate change takes hold more and more. So yeah, 3 years is pretty good going really.
J
+1
It's an amazing achievement (Lelystad is built on reclaimed land and named after the man who envisaged the whole thing)
And as you say built long before the floods which brought about the rest of the Delta Project