Tubeless Road Tandem?

[Morat]

Oh wise ones....
after suffering two visits from the Fairy yesterday, I'm seriously considering going tubeless. The first problem was a tiny flint that embedded so completely into the tyre tread that the air was foaming out of the sides of the (wet) tyre. The flint itself seemed to be totally airtight. The second was a thorn about 2mm diameter which caused a slow puncture.

Am I right in expecting that a tubeless set up would have allowed us to pump and go rather than have to stop to replace the tubes? (I realise that without photos it's hard to guess).

The tandem has DT Swiss 540 rims (700C) which have been great but are not "Tubeless Ready". Has anyone dared to try the tape and sealant approach with a tandem yet?

The other half of the equation is tyres. The machine came equipped with 25mm Gartorskins front and back which are pretty harsh for a big team. The rear wore square after 900 miles and has been replaced by a 28mm Gatorskin Hardshell. Based on experience with my halfbike my first instinct would be to throw on tubeless 28mm Schwalbe Ones front and back to get some ride quality but the 75Kg limit on them gives me the fear. If the max accross two tyres is 150Kg then, with the bike, we're at least 80Kg short! So, apart from turning the tandem into a trike, does anyone have any suggestions?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

The Things are the experienced ones here. Schwalbe do not recommend tubeless for tandems yet.

[bikenrrd]

Do not try the tape and sealant method for road tyres, full stop.  Road tyres have too high a pressure to run like people run their MTB tubeless setup.  On a tandem this is going to be even worse.  MTB tubeless tyres: 30 PSI, road tubeless, 80 PSI!

Only use tubeless rims (they have a different inner profile and hook shape) and tubeless tyres (they have a stronger and different shape bead.  Hutchnison beads are made from carbon fibre).

If you really want to do it: new wheels (or rims) and new tyres.  The Schwalbe One is a lightweight racing tyre, you could try something heavier duty, like the Hutchinson Sector or intensive.  There are other Schwalbe tubeless tyres arriving next year.

Something you could try: if you buy inner tubes with removable valve cores (like Continental ones) you could fill the inner tube with the latex fluid you run in tubeless.  This might stop some of the punctures.

[Morat]

Hmm. so no quick fix for true tubeless. I think this may be a project for next season if the tyres become available. Sealant in the tubes does sound like a good plan, might give it a go.

Fangu!

[tiermat]

Schwalbe are brining out a Marthon Supreme and a Marathon Almotion in "Tubeless Easy", which is what they call their system for tubeless tyres (used on One, G-One etc etc) Max weight is stated as 100Kg and 110Kg respectively, so suitable for tandem use*?

*Assuming that is per tyre and the combined weight of tandem plus riders and luggage does not exceed 200Kg, or 220Kg.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Schwalbe specifies weight per tyre.

[Simon Galgut]

Do not try the tape and sealant method for road tyres, full stop.  Road tyres have too high a pressure to run like people run their MTB tubeless setup.  On a tandem this is going to be even worse.  MTB tubeless tyres: 30 PSI, road tubeless, 80 PSI!

Not really true. I have been using rim strips & sealant for a long time with Mavic Open Pro and Mavic A319 rims and tape & sealant with Mavic Ksyriums with Schwalbe one tyres. Although the initial inflation is more difficult (needs a compressor), once inflated they are absolutely fine.

That being said, I would still recommend tubeless rims (I use DT X392) as they are a whole lot easier to setup.

[bikenrrd]

Do not try the tape and sealant method for road tyres, full stop.  Road tyres have too high a pressure to run like people run their MTB tubeless setup.  On a tandem this is going to be even worse.  MTB tubeless tyres: 30 PSI, road tubeless, 80 PSI!

Not really true. I have been using rim strips & sealant for a long time with Mavic Open Pro and Mavic A319 rims and tape & sealant with Mavic Ksyriums with Schwalbe one tyres. Although the initial inflation is more difficult (needs a compressor), once inflated they are absolutely fine.

That being said, I would still recommend tubeless rims (I use DT X392) as they are a whole lot easier to setup.

You're at least using a tubeless tyre, rather than converting a normal kevlar beaded tyre.  In MTB circles, people will run kevlar beaded tyres on standard rims that have been converted.  Here the pressure is low enough to not blow the tyre off the rim.

I wouldn't risk what you're doing, as I'd be very wary every time I road the bike.  This is probably just an over active imagination, though, imagining death and maiming on every corner!

I'll be setting my wheels up tubeless for the first time this weekend (on a solo).  I have tubeless ready wheels (DT Swiss R23 spline) and tyres (Hutchinson Fusion 3 tubeless).  Still expecting it to be difficult to set up, though.

[Morat]

I'd definitely use a tubeless tyre, it's the matter of getting new rims that would put the whole thing beyond "May as well, if it saves us a few P******s for a few quid" into Actual Money territory. The _wheels_ we have are fantastic, especially with the rebuilt rear, but the tyres are letting us down.*

I'd really like to experience the same sort of supersonic magic carpet ride I get with 28mm Schwalbe Ones on my half bike, while tubeless and on a tandem. It's a tall order, I know.

*apologies, that was terrible.

[Thing2]

It may be that we've had a lot if bad luck, but using tubeless tyres on the tandem has been quite expensive. We've had to retire far more tires due to sidewall damage than ones we've worn out. We started with Hutchinson fusion and Hutchinson intensive tires. We found the intensive to be pretty good, but the fusion was not robust enough for tandem use. We've also tried Schwalbe One, but again they didn't seem robust enough. When working, the tubeless tyres are great. We do always carry a couple of super light tubes which we can put inside the tubeless tyres or use with the spare clincher tyre.

[thing1]

Few more thought to add to what Thing2 said.
We used Pacenti SL23 rims, stans tape, and Orange sealant. Other than issues with longevity on the rims (got the 2015 edition on order as a replacement, will see if that fares better) I was pretty happy with this combination.
A challenge for tandems is if you get a puncture that seals, you have a greater chance of blowing it out when you reinflate, compared to a half-bike, as you'll probably be reinflating to a higher pressure.
With the exception of the Fusion 3, the tyres we had cuts in were all still usable with a tube inserted. The issue is this feels like you're missing the benefit of tubeless so we tended to replace them sooner than we would have otherwise. Combined with the higher price, this is what made it an expensive endeavour.

At the USA nationals last year, several (fast) tandems were racing on tubeless and where the envy of those that weren't. I'll try and find out more about which tyres they used.

We've not yet tried the Hutchinson Sector 28. Sounds like we'd be pushed to fit that in our frame.

[Morat]

Thank you Things That's invaluable insight. I suspect I'll just have to be patient and hope that Tubeless tech trickles up to tandems.

[Morat]

http://tomsbiketrip.com/schwalbe-marathon-supreme-touring-tyre-review/

They're out!
But I think we're going to stick with the HD Guard tubed version for now. I'm not confident of setting up tubeless on non-tubeless rims.
Anyway, Rose Bike have these
http://tinyurl.com/zlv8gfg
but not the tubeless version yet.