Author Topic: Flags on St George's Day  (Read 5872 times)

Martin

Flags on St George's Day
« on: 24 April, 2018, 08:08:54 pm »
As I now refuse to wave the Union Flag other than for sporting / royal occasions due to its toxicity I thought I'd strap a St George's flag to my bike yesterday as I happen to think it's a day worth celebrating despite having been pretty much castigated;

Thanks to the Random other cyclist possibly OTP (his attire fitted anyway) who shouted something about Palestinians at me as I rode across Hyde Park

Huh? (yes I know about the history)

Re: St George's Day
« Reply #1 on: 24 April, 2018, 11:07:38 pm »
We paraded with the Scouts as usual. As I pointed out to them and the parents, there are 24 countries, on at least five continents, in which St George is recognised, and he is a patron saint in, for example, Georgia, Brazil, Ethiopia and Greece as well as England. As that leaves only Antarctica and Australasia as continents where he is not so significant, and penguins are not known for having patron saints, he is probably one of the most international of saints.

Our attititude is a bit odd.

Kim

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Re: St George's Day
« Reply #2 on: 24 April, 2018, 11:37:55 pm »
As I now refuse to wave the Union Flag other than for sporting / royal occasions due to its toxicity I thought I'd strap a St George's flag to my bike yesterday as I happen to think it's a day worth celebrating despite having been pretty much castigated

Curious.  For me the St George's flag is irreparably tainted with ballsports and nastier shades of nationalism, while the Union Flag is still acceptable in sufficiently international[1] contexts.

But then while I'm happy to think of myself as British, I don't really identify with Englishness.  *shrug*

I don't really know or care about saints.  I'm not sure what I'm missing out on...



[1] Flying one in the UK would be suspect unless accompanied by an assortment of other flags, but I'd be fine with sticking one on my pannier while touring abroad[2], and it's always pleasing to see one on a spacesuit.
[2] In practice it seems that a jersey with a .co.uk address on it is sufficient, and avoids the flaggy baggage.

Re: St George's Day
« Reply #3 on: 24 April, 2018, 11:50:31 pm »
A model to look up to. Obviously legendary in this case, but Baden Powell chose him for Scouting because he symbolises, responsibility, truthfulness, devotion to duty, bravery, a noble spirit and dedication to helping others.

Of course, some people don't feel that they need a model, which is fine. But sometimes it's hard to hit the target if you're not looking at it. Even if you have to imagine the target a bit ;D

Re: St George's Day
« Reply #4 on: 25 April, 2018, 07:30:23 am »
As I now refuse to wave the Union Flag other than for sporting / royal occasions due to its toxicity I thought I'd strap a St George's flag to my bike yesterday as I happen to think it's a day worth celebrating despite having been pretty much castigated

Curious.  For me the St George's flag is irreparably tainted with ballsports and nastier shades of nationalism, while the Union Flag is still acceptable in sufficiently international[1] contexts.


Maybe this depends on age?  I have no idea whether you’re older or younger than me, but IME as a teenager in the 70s the Union Jack was hijacked first by the NF and then by the BNP, with the growing use by English sports fans of the cross of St George in the late-80s and 90s a way of showing support whilst keeping their distance from the NF/BNP. 
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T42

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Re: St George's Day
« Reply #5 on: 25 April, 2018, 08:09:54 am »
UJ also hijacked by prod extremist bastards in Norn Iron. What annoys me even more is that they also hijacked the Red Hand of Ulster, meaning that while Scots, Welsh and English can wear their national symbols proudly, decent folk from NI can't.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Martin

Re: St George's Day
« Reply #6 on: 25 April, 2018, 09:46:12 am »
As I now refuse to wave the Union Flag other than for sporting / royal occasions due to its toxicity I thought I'd strap a St George's flag to my bike yesterday as I happen to think it's a day worth celebrating despite having been pretty much castigated

Curious.  For me the St George's flag is irreparably tainted with ballsports and nastier shades of nationalism, while the Union Flag is still acceptable in sufficiently international[1] contexts.


I find the Union Flag has become a lot more tainted with nastier shades of nationalism since a certain vote (witness how many now fly around some of the more down at heel residential areas)

Yes the England flag is moslty just ballsports now (which is how I obtained it) I think it's a sad day when the patron saint of another country is recognised far more than our own (Which is probably true for many countries on St Partick's Day)

re NI I've never seen a car number plate with any sort of flag (UK NI Eire or EU) in that province

Pingu

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Re: St George's Day
« Reply #7 on: 25 April, 2018, 10:00:56 am »
...I don't really know or care about saints.  I'm not sure what I'm missing out on...

Some bizarre stories.

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: St George's Day
« Reply #8 on: 25 April, 2018, 10:39:40 am »
...I don't really know or care about saints.  I'm not sure what I'm missing out on...

Some bizarre stories.

And body parts. Don't forget about the body parts.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: St George's Day
« Reply #9 on: 25 April, 2018, 11:03:06 am »
As I now refuse to wave the Union Flag other than for sporting / royal occasions due to its toxicity I thought I'd strap a St George's flag to my bike yesterday as I happen to think it's a day worth celebrating despite having been pretty much castigated

Curious.  For me the St George's flag is irreparably tainted with ballsports and nastier shades of nationalism, while the Union Flag is still acceptable in sufficiently international[1] contexts.


I find the Union Flag has become a lot more tainted with nastier shades of nationalism since a certain vote (witness how many now fly around some of the more down at heel residential areas)

Yes the England flag is moslty just ballsports now (which is how I obtained it) I think it's a sad day when the patron saint of another country is recognised far more than our own (Which is probably true for many countries on St Partick's Day)

re NI I've never seen a car number plate with any sort of flag (UK NI Eire or EU) in that province
I think St Patrick has been adopted as the patron saint of beer drinkers.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

T42

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Re: St George's Day
« Reply #10 on: 25 April, 2018, 11:20:12 am »
re NI I've never seen a car number plate with any sort of flag (UK NI Eire or EU) in that province

An EU plate might pass muster with prod & mick arseholes, but your car'd probably be burnt out by enraged Brexiters.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Martin

Re: St George's Day
« Reply #11 on: 25 April, 2018, 11:22:14 am »
re NI I've never seen a car number plate with any sort of flag (UK NI Eire or EU) in that province

An EU plate might pass muster with prod & mick arseholes, but your car'd probably be burnt out by enraged Brexiters.

I think the GB bit would be the problem....

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: St George's Day
« Reply #12 on: 25 April, 2018, 11:24:21 am »
I think St Patrick has been adopted as the patron saint of beer drinkers.

Nope. St. Arnulf of Metz got there first.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Re: Flags on St George's Day
« Reply #13 on: 25 April, 2018, 11:42:22 am »
I've got a multi-purpose flag for special occasions. It's John O' Gaunt's standard. So serves for Lancashire where I'm from, and alludes to Gaunt's speech in Richard II, which neatly encompasses England and Shakespeare, whose birthday is 23rd April. It does lay claim to France and Spain, so it's a bit ambiguous regarding Brexit.

Here I am chatting about it to Prince Charles at a hedgelaying competition.


Re: St George's Day
« Reply #14 on: 25 April, 2018, 01:49:27 pm »
As I now refuse to wave the Union Flag other than for sporting / royal occasions due to its toxicity I thought I'd strap a St George's flag to my bike yesterday as I happen to think it's a day worth celebrating despite having been pretty much castigated

Curious.  For me the St George's flag is irreparably tainted with ballsports and nastier shades of nationalism, while the Union Flag is still acceptable in sufficiently international[1] contexts.

This is definitely my perspective. There are legitimate cases for flying either or (eg Olympic vs Commonwealth games). My feeling is that there is much more subtext about the cross of St George than there is about the union flag. But then, as a Welshman, the flag of St George doesn't even theoretically represent me in any way. ;)

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: St George's Day
« Reply #15 on: 25 April, 2018, 01:50:05 pm »
re NI I've never seen a car number plate with any sort of flag (UK NI Eire or EU) in that province

An EU plate might pass muster with prod & mick arseholes, but your car'd probably be burnt out by enraged Brexiters.

I think the GB bit would be the problem....

GB has always been a problem. ;)
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Kim

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Re: St George's Day
« Reply #16 on: 25 April, 2018, 02:07:32 pm »
As I now refuse to wave the Union Flag other than for sporting / royal occasions due to its toxicity I thought I'd strap a St George's flag to my bike yesterday as I happen to think it's a day worth celebrating despite having been pretty much castigated

Curious.  For me the St George's flag is irreparably tainted with ballsports and nastier shades of nationalism, while the Union Flag is still acceptable in sufficiently international[1] contexts.


Maybe this depends on age?  I have no idea whether you’re older or younger than me, but IME as a teenager in the 70s the Union Jack was hijacked first by the NF and then by the BNP, with the growing use by English sports fans of the cross of St George in the late-80s and 90s a way of showing support whilst keeping their distance from the NF/BNP.

Seems likely.  I was born in 1979, and mostly missed the NF.  Also, as white British sometimes-visible[1] QUILTBAG, my personal safety radar is calibrated to consider football fans a more immediate[2] threat than the politer shades of nationalist.


[1] Moreso in my teens and early 20s.  While I still wear comfortable shoes, I now have the invisibility of middle age on my side.
[2] I'm fully aware that the likes of the BNP would like to round me up just as soon as they've finished with the Poles, but that doesn't mean they're paying attention.

mattc

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Re: Flags on St George's Day
« Reply #17 on: 25 April, 2018, 04:27:42 pm »
I have no love for the NF or similar groups - but I'm quite happy to wave an England flag on appropriate occasions. It is not a racist/xenophobic symbol. (and neither is a shaved head). Same for the Union Flag.

IMHO, part of standing up to these twats is to stand by things like national flags; otherwise what next - stop speaking English cos so many racists do??
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Pingu

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Re: St George's Day
« Reply #18 on: 25 April, 2018, 06:05:51 pm »
...I don't really know or care about saints.  I'm not sure what I'm missing out on...

Some bizarre stories.

And body parts. Don't forget about the body parts.

Hell, yeah!

Re: St George's Day
« Reply #19 on: 25 April, 2018, 09:32:31 pm »
... in the 70s the Union Jack was hijacked ...
So let's hijack it back. Best ever use of flags? Probably the Last Night of the Proms. Wave whatever makes you proud, and we'll all enjoy watching you.

Mr Larrington

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Re: Flags on St George's Day
« Reply #20 on: 26 April, 2018, 01:09:01 pm »
Didn't that tedious peasant Farage get thoroughly exercised over someone waving a large EU flag at the Last Night?  Anything which rouses that bean-filled scrotum's ire is undoubtedly a Good Thing.
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Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Flags on St George's Day
« Reply #21 on: 26 April, 2018, 01:24:49 pm »
Didn't Flatus have fun when flying a Dorset flag from his Flatusmobile winding up a French woman who turned out to be a Mme Farage type? Or so he said...

I reckon flying a St George with a UN flag would be fun. Or a combination of nautical flags that means something like "Stay away, bubonic plague on board".
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

handcyclist

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Re: Flags on St George's Day
« Reply #22 on: 29 April, 2018, 07:48:03 pm »
I have no love for the NF or similar groups - but I'm quite happy to wave an England flag on appropriate occasions. It is not a racist/xenophobic symbol. (and neither is a shaved head). Same for the Union Flag.

IMHO, part of standing up to these twats is to stand by things like national flags; otherwise what next - stop speaking English cos so many racists do??

^ This

Now having dual British/Irish nationality as a post-Brexit insurance policy, I feel fine waving an Irish/English/British national flag as appropiate.
Doubt is is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.

Re: Flags on St George's Day
« Reply #23 on: 29 April, 2018, 10:17:17 pm »
I rarely find myself in flag waving situations, though I'm not opposed to holding a flag or showing it respect. Given a choice I prefer the union flag to the England one. I sing along to Jerusalem with a stronger voice than Rule Britannia at last night of the proms style events. As a child of the 70s I share the avoidance of nationalists and football fans upthread.

My neighbour put up a big flag pole and a union flag somewhere around Brexit and puts it half mast at appropriate times. He also flew it upside down for several weeks, which amused me.

I can't think of reason that I'd put a large flag on my bike. Though I might get an EU one for when Brexit happens (and go cycling not in the UK to avoid the whole thing). There's too many reasons to have a flag on a bike to get shouty at the with them though. So :shrug:

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Flags on St George's Day
« Reply #24 on: 30 April, 2018, 08:45:15 am »
There's a house a few streets away that has a flagpole in the garden and flies various appropriate flags at appropriate times. For the last week they've been flying a curious version of a St George. Curious because I've not seen anything exactly like it before; it has a miniature cross of St George in the hoist quadrant, within the big normal cross.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.