Author Topic: Tubeless for Dummies  (Read 194245 times)

bikey-mikey

  • AUK 6372
  • Yes, I am completely mad ! a.k.a. 333
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #100 on: 06 August, 2015, 11:26:46 pm »
Stan's (pretty sure - I didn't put it in myself).

I got mine refitted and inflated with no problems and it is staying at 75psi.  Seems fixed ok.  May get a new tyre for PBP though just to be on the safe side.

+ 1
I’ve decided I’m not old. I’m 25 .....plus shipping and handling.

Cycling heatmap
https://www.strava.com/athletes/4628735/heatmaps/6ed5ab12#10/51.12782/-3.16388

Ben T

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #101 on: 06 August, 2015, 11:52:21 pm »
I'm happier with a patch on (the inside of) a tubeless tyre as the natural inclination of the air pressure is to hold it on, unlike patching (the outside of) a tube where the natural inclination of the air pressure is to try to blow it off.

thing1

  • aka Joth
    • TandemThings
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #102 on: 07 August, 2015, 05:57:07 am »
We mostly use Orange Seal. When it's worked (including on tubeless and tubular) it worked great.

What sort of patches do you put inside? I've never really tried this. You rough up the inner surface and glue it like normal?

 

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #103 on: 07 August, 2015, 06:42:51 am »
I'm happier with a patch on (the inside of) a tubeless tyre as the natural inclination of the air pressure is to hold it on, unlike patching (the outside of) a tube where the natural inclination of the air pressure is to try to blow it off.

That's possibly a touch unfair.  Inner tubes don't hold their own pressure, they're just pushed against the tyre.  So a patch is normally squeezed hard between the tube and tyre anyway. 

Not to say the combination of patch and sealant isn't reassuring.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #104 on: 07 August, 2015, 07:12:01 am »
We mostly use Orange Seal. When it's worked (including on tubeless and tubular) it worked great.

What sort of patches do you put inside? I've never really tried this. You rough up the inner surface and glue it like normal?

Yes, just a normal tube patch + rubber cement.  I googled tubeless repair and that was the suggestion.  I roughed up the surface a bit and applied the patch, just like on a tube. 
It has held up overnight so I guess it is fixed.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #105 on: 21 September, 2015, 09:33:37 am »
My front wheel is leaking from the valve hole.  Any tips?

I spent a couple of hours over the weekend fitting Hutchinson Fusion 3s to DT Swiss R23 Spline wheels.  These wheels came with my bike and are "tubeless ready".  They already had the rim tape installed.  I bought two DT Swiss tubeless valves, two Fusion 3 tyres and a pint of Stan's sealant.

Fitting the tyres was quite easy.  I didn't have to use a tool, just my hands and a cloth over the tyre and rim to protect my fingers.  I installed the valve stem with the o-ring on the outside of the rim.
I used washing up liquid and water in a 1:1 ratio to lube the beads.  Inflating with a track pump was easy and happened first time on both the front and rear wheel.

I then deflated the tyre, removed the valve cores and used a syringe to inject 30ml of fluid into each tyre.  Spun the tyre a few times to distribute the fluid.  Replaced the valve cores and pumped the tyres up.  All was fine with the rear tyre, and that is holding air well (at ~100PSI at the moment).

For the front tyre I get bubbling (of washing up liquid) through some of the spoke holes and around the valve.  The tyre deflated from 100PSI to 30PSI overnight.  Quite a slow puncture, but still not good.

So, any tips?  The wheels were new in February and have covered about 1200km with a tube in the tyre, before attempting the tubeless conversion.  Things I can think of doing are: I could add some more tape (I have some yellow TESA tape), replace the valve (although it is new) or add more sealant.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #106 on: 21 September, 2015, 02:27:36 pm »
I'd suggest the rim needs re-taping (or an additional layer applied) if you're getting leaks through the spoke nipples.  Not sure what O ring you have - I've only used Stans and they have a tapered rubber bung/base that seals to the tape with the aid of sealant. You could try re-inflating and shaking/bouncing the wheel to distribute the sealant to the leaky areas. Took 2-3 days for mine to fully seal (Pacenti tubeless ready) and I still lose around 0.5 bar out of the front over the course of a week, but it's liveable with.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #107 on: 21 September, 2015, 06:34:45 pm »
I had a bit of valve hole leakage when I first installed my Stan's valves.
Just need to needed to tighten up the knurled locknut a fraction to force that tapered bung into the edges of the valve hole.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #108 on: 22 September, 2015, 08:13:49 am »
Thanks everyone, they hold air now.  I added a bit more sealant (~30ml to bring the total to 50ml).  When adding the sealant I unscrewed the valve and pushed it into the rim a little bit.  I then injected fluid upwards (just a bit, 10ml) into the valve so as to coat the valve bung.  I then screwed the valve back down, inverted the wheel and added the rest of the fluid.

Haven't had a chance to ride them yet so can't give a verdict.  Hutchy Fusion 3s in 25mm are big tyres - easily 28mm across and very tall.  Should be quite comfy at my usual skinny boy pressures - 70 to 80 PSI.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #109 on: 22 September, 2015, 09:20:32 am »
Thanks all for the educational thread!

[Anyone know a pub where they will serve you "A pint of Stan's Sealant" ??]

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #110 on: 22 September, 2015, 10:42:01 am »
.............. Hutchy Fusion 3s in 25mm are big tyres - easily 28mm across and very tall.
That's very useful information as I'm considering the option of tubeless on my Paccenti rimmed wheels that Mike Conway made (and they are superb wheels!).  But, I doubt 28mm will fit the bikes I wish to use them on.  I currently use 25mm Conti 4 Seasons which are not the biggest profile tyres, but matched with 23mm rim widths give a comfortable ride for me.

I have purchased a 28mm Conti 4 Seasons to experiment with sizes.  Knowing the 25mm Fusion comes up on the large size is good information

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #111 on: 22 September, 2015, 10:54:50 am »
[Anyone know a pub where they will serve you "A pint of Stan's Sealant" ??]

It's a US pint - 16 fl oz or 473ml.  Somewhere in Boston will probably serve it.

Fusion 3s are also available in 23mm size, which might (or might not!) be nearer to 25mm when mounted on a 23mm rims.  The R23 Splines my tyres are mounted have 23mm wide rims.

bikey-mikey

  • AUK 6372
  • Yes, I am completely mad ! a.k.a. 333
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #112 on: 22 September, 2015, 07:46:44 pm »
.............. Hutchy Fusion 3s in 25mm are big tyres - easily 28mm across and very tall.
That's very useful information as I'm considering the option of tubeless on my Paccenti rimmed wheels that Mike Conway made (and they are superb wheels!).  But, I doubt 28mm will fit the bikes I wish to use them on.  I currently use 25mm Conti 4 Seasons which are not the biggest profile tyres, but matched with 23mm rim widths give a comfortable ride for me.

I have purchased a 28mm Conti 4 Seasons to experiment with sizes.  Knowing the 25mm Fusion comes up on the large size is good information

I moved on from Hutchinson Intensive 25s to the new Hutchinson Sector 28, (28mm) and I would say it is a far better tyre.  It has a central section that is more or less a slick, and outside sections that have a sort of cross hatching grippy surface. I run them at 80 PSI and they are extremely comfy, whilst rolling very well - in groups I always end up having to brake on the downhills... .  They don't look that much taller than the 25s, but they are maybe, somehow wider...

I am also getting much better mileage on them...
I’ve decided I’m not old. I’m 25 .....plus shipping and handling.

Cycling heatmap
https://www.strava.com/athletes/4628735/heatmaps/6ed5ab12#10/51.12782/-3.16388

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #113 on: 22 September, 2015, 08:37:58 pm »
My first tubeless tyres arrived today from Germany (along with a tubeless conversion kit) The tyres are Schwalbe One 28.  I would have preferred 25s but the 28s were only £27 each which is nearly half what they usually cost.  The reduction will be because Schwalbe are bring out the One Pro, which is 70g lighter.

I'll probably do them at the weekend. Actually, bugger, Ive just realised I haven't bought any sealant.  Any recommendations for sealant?

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #114 on: 22 September, 2015, 08:43:08 pm »
Schwalbe recommend their stuff or Stans (same stuff).
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #115 on: 22 September, 2015, 09:28:07 pm »
I am also getting much better mileage on them...

Out of interest, how long are yours lasting? My Sector 28s are still going strong at over 8,000km, which seems rather impressive (that's on varyingly rough or silky smooth, but mostly rough, Yorkshire Dales roads).

bikey-mikey

  • AUK 6372
  • Yes, I am completely mad ! a.k.a. 333
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #116 on: 22 September, 2015, 10:57:11 pm »
I am also getting much better mileage on them...

Out of interest, how long are yours lasting? My Sector 28s are still going strong at over 8,000km, which seems rather impressive (that's on varyingly rough or silky smooth, but mostly rough, Yorkshire Dales roads).

Good question. I remember having a strap from my Koala seat bag get stuck in my rear wheel causing an enormous downhill rear wheel skid at close to 55 kph, and I wasn't slowing. There was a huge spongy mess where the tread was, but I thought 'what the hell', and rode the rest of the ride.

Then I got a new rear fitted.

Problem is I can't remember which ride it was, but I wrote about it on here, so can someone remember?

If not I'll have to trawl back through Strava.....
I’ve decided I’m not old. I’m 25 .....plus shipping and handling.

Cycling heatmap
https://www.strava.com/athletes/4628735/heatmaps/6ed5ab12#10/51.12782/-3.16388

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #117 on: 23 September, 2015, 08:30:01 am »
Does the slimey goo go semi-solid after a while or stay runny?

If it turns into a rubbery skin, does it peel off or is there a solvent needed to shift it when replacing a tyre?
If it stays runny, does it flow off the rim when a worn tyre is replaced?
If it stays runny, does it creep to the bottom of the tyre when the bike is stored for a few days?
How long does it take to uniformly redistribute itself when the bike is rolled?

If it semi-solidifies into a skin to keep air from escaping, it is effectively an innertube which is fitted in a liquid form after the tyre has been mounted.
If it stays runny, it is effectively a low viscosity inner tube that squeezes into the gap between tyre and foreign object when a foreign object pierces the tyre.



Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #118 on: 23 September, 2015, 12:58:48 pm »
Your second answer is closest, but it's not a slimey goo, it's a liquid.  When you spin the wheel I expect it coats the inside of the tyre but when you stop, it flows to the bottom immediately.

I expect it would seal around a foreign object but I would still take the object out when I spotted it and have it seal again with the tyre intact.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #119 on: 24 September, 2015, 10:12:45 pm »
OK.

All fitted.

Surprisingly easy. Sealed first time, no leaking, no mess.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #120 on: 30 September, 2015, 12:15:01 pm »
Anyone know of a source of 25mm Schwalbe One Tubeless?
My rear tyre has worn through to the canvas - & I've currently had to resort to a non tubeless Durano.

I've done a trawl of the German websites and the usual Google shopping search,but no luck.

I'm guessing the dearth of these tyres at the moment is because Schwalbe are switching over to the new pro version?

Edit: I've just interrogated veloviewer and I'm a bit disappointed with the milage (kilometreage?)  I've got from this tyre - only 3500 km. - that's only 10 rides for Steve!   I'm still prepared to give them another go though as in all other respects the tyres have been excellent

Anyone else got any stats on how long their tyres have lasted?
Eddington: 114 Miles

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #121 on: 30 September, 2015, 02:58:03 pm »
Having been putting off (and off, and off ...) actually switching over, can anyone tell me how large the 28mm Schwalbe Ones come up? Currently trying to work out whether they'll fit in place of Krylion 25s with reasonable clearance.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #122 on: 01 October, 2015, 05:50:07 am »
I have some. Remind me tomorrow and I'll measure them

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #123 on: 01 October, 2015, 07:31:53 am »
It is now 20 weeks and 2750 miles since my last puncture with olde fashioned tubed tyres.

"Pride comes before a fall,,,,,,"   ;) :-\

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #124 on: 01 October, 2015, 11:36:50 am »
Anyone know of a source of 25mm Schwalbe One Tubeless?
My rear tyre has worn through to the canvas - & I've currently had to resort to a non tubeless Durano.

I've done a trawl of the German websites and the usual Google shopping search,but no luck.

I'm guessing the dearth of these tyres at the moment is because Schwalbe are switching over to the new pro version?

Edit: I've just interrogated veloviewer and I'm a bit disappointed with the milage (kilometreage?)  I've got from this tyre - only 3500 km. - that's only 10 rides for Steve!   I'm still prepared to give them another go though as in all other respects the tyres have been excellent

Anyone else got any stats on how long their tyres have lasted?

I looked for the "25mm Schwalbe One Tubeless" recently and also found everywhere out of stock
I got Hutchinson Intensive 25mm instead ( from http://www.acycles.co.uk who despite the .co.uk are a French shop also know as "alltricks" )

As you say I have also heard that Schwalbe One tubeless do not have a great rep for lasting well.  But it's difficult to assess at this stage as there aren't that many people using them.  The Hutchinson Intensive do look like they might last a while.  Once the wheels are built etc etc they are going on the winter bike, I will be testing the tyres the hard way  ;D