Author Topic: Tubeless for Dummies  (Read 194271 times)

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #500 on: 03 February, 2017, 10:40:46 am »
Here you go...

contains blood  ;)
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Excellent bloodage  :thumbsup:
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #501 on: 03 February, 2017, 11:18:27 am »
Bad luck.  I have had one tyre that would not seat at home so I took it to the local bike mechanic and left it with him.  Less than the cost af an airshot and he gets income.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #502 on: 03 February, 2017, 12:42:27 pm »
Ouch. Track pump only for me. Then off to local friendly shop to borrow their compressor the very few times I've needed to - always with mtb and not road tyres




Kim

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #503 on: 03 February, 2017, 01:56:25 pm »
*wince*

Having done the put-some-dry-ice-pellets-in-a-coke-bottle-and-run-away thing in my yoof, I've never really trusted PET bottles for anything more strenuous than containing their factory load of fizzy drink.  When they go, they really go.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #504 on: 03 February, 2017, 02:05:48 pm »
Hmmm. I've made damn sure I'm not right next to my pop bottle inflator when I've used it, and the first couple of times I put it under a towel or a fleece to damp any excitement, but I've been more blasé recently. I think I'll be digging out an old towel again for next time.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #505 on: 03 February, 2017, 04:28:43 pm »
Ouch - I guess that's the price of "ghetto"?   :-\

I understand the point of tubeless on MTB - low pressures with no pinch flats. On road, where you want a reasonable pressure, that doesn't seem like enough of a USP. If simply avoiding punctures is the name of the game, is there any reason why you can't just put that sealant stuff inside an inner tube? I guess it might stick the inner tube to the tyre as it sealed the holes, but I'm sure with enough persuasion you could part them when the time came.

Kim

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #506 on: 03 February, 2017, 05:12:07 pm »
Not having a tube reduces the rolling resistance.

Slime in tubes is the worst of both worlds, really.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #507 on: 03 February, 2017, 06:51:43 pm »
Ouch - I guess that's the price of "ghetto"?   :-\

I understand the point of tubeless on MTB - low pressures with no pinch flats. On road, where you want a reasonable pressure, that doesn't seem like enough of a USP. If simply avoiding punctures is the name of the game, is there any reason why you can't just put that sealant stuff inside an inner tube? I guess it might stick the inner tube to the tyre as it sealed the holes, but I'm sure with enough persuasion you could part them when the time came.

What if a reasonable pressure is low enough to make pinch flats likely? What if you want a higher pressure and don't want any risk of pinch flats?  what if you just don't want any flats?

There is only one answer to this.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #508 on: 03 February, 2017, 06:59:41 pm »
Yeah,  for me it's having fast tyres that are also reliable.   - the Audax holly grail.   
Eddington: 114 Miles

Morat

  • I tried to HTFU but something went ping :(
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #509 on: 03 February, 2017, 07:24:39 pm »
Yeah,  for me it's having fast tyres that are also reliable.   - the Audax holly grail.

There's your problem! ;)
Everyone's favourite windbreak

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #510 on: 03 February, 2017, 10:29:09 pm »
What if a reasonable pressure is low enough to make pinch flats likely? What if you want a higher pressure and don't want any risk of pinch flats?  what if you just don't want any flats?

There is only one answer to this.
Solid tyres?  :P
I've read this whole thread, and there seem to be a few people reporting significant downsides, so I was looking for the compelling reason to go road tubeless. :) Low rolling resistance, better comfort, and reduced chance of "small" p*ctures seem like pretty good reasons, if your wheels are suitable and you don't ride over big bits of glass too often!
Cheers
Duncan

bikey-mikey

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #511 on: 05 February, 2017, 12:42:48 am »
Well I've ridden close to 150,000 kms and only had one cut too big to seal.

People are reporting problems, but it's usually because they have either used a wheel badged as tubeless compatible (rather than a Stans built specifically for purpose), or are using new makes rather than tried and tested Hutchinsons, or are using too high a pressure, or try to fit them at home, rather than getting the bike shop AND THEIR COMPRESSOR to do it...

Or maybe because they don't like the idea, and tell tall stories (nobody on here, of course!)

Frankly how can they not work if you buy the right rims and the right tyres?

I have utterly proven that....
I’ve decided I’m not old. I’m 25 .....plus shipping and handling.

Cycling heatmap
https://www.strava.com/athletes/4628735/heatmaps/6ed5ab12#10/51.12782/-3.16388

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #512 on: 05 February, 2017, 07:21:48 am »
Well, Ive had no problems and Ive not used Stans rims, not used a compressor, not used a bike shop, not used tried and tested tyres  ;D


bikey-mikey

  • AUK 6372
  • Yes, I am completely mad ! a.k.a. 333
Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #513 on: 05 February, 2017, 11:16:21 am »
Well, Ive had no problems and Ive not used Stans rims, not used a compressor, not used a bike shop, not used tried and tested tyres  ;D

Indeed I'm not saying my way or the highway, just that I've not tried others because "if it ain't broke..."
I’ve decided I’m not old. I’m 25 .....plus shipping and handling.

Cycling heatmap
https://www.strava.com/athletes/4628735/heatmaps/6ed5ab12#10/51.12782/-3.16388

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #514 on: 05 February, 2017, 12:09:39 pm »
l'm sticking with your recommendation of Hutchinson Sectors (although Ive got 32s) for the winter/spring. :thumbsup:
They've been great. Well over 1000 miles winter use on some really crap roads and they are in fine condition. In fact, they look new.  Deflated them yesterday in order to refresh the sealant. Pumped back up to a solid seal with no problems (although there was a brief bit of fizzing out of the spoke holes.

For late spring and autumn it'll be Schwalbe One Pro. Bit too fragile for winter, but a nice fast tyre.


Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #515 on: 05 February, 2017, 09:09:34 pm »
I wasn't trying to be rude, and I'm glad that there are some significant success stories here. It's often the case that threads are full of people with issues, because they keep coming back, while those for whom it works are too busy having fun!  ;)
I'm just looking for a new bike and wondering whether tubeless is something that I should consider when replacing the standard tyres (and they are only 25s, so I'll probably go 28 or 30 fairly quickly).

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #516 on: 05 February, 2017, 09:32:43 pm »
For spring and winter its a no brainer

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #517 on: 05 February, 2017, 10:14:44 pm »
I wasn't trying to be rude, and I'm glad that there are some significant success stories here. It's often the case that threads are full of people with issues, because they keep coming back, while those for whom it works are too busy having fun!  ;)
I'm just looking for a new bike and wondering whether tubeless is something that I should consider when replacing the standard tyres (and they are only 25s, so I'll probably go 28 or 30 fairly quickly).


Yes, you should go tubeless. Even if you want a new bike that comes with the usual quality of OEM wheels, you should buy some tubeless rims or wheels and transition straight away.

Dare I say it - Flatus is correct. And it's good sense in summer too I reckon given that you can buy Vittoria Corsa Speeds in tubeless ready. There are increasing numbers of nice tyres from 23 upwards.

Mike

 

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #518 on: 06 February, 2017, 10:31:32 am »
Cycling weekly rolling resistance test - tubulars vs clinchers vs tubeless.

https://youtu.be/5NGnKMvZ5Ig

No prizes for guessing which is the fastest.   

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk

Eddington: 114 Miles

Samuel D

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #519 on: 06 February, 2017, 11:27:46 am »
Vittoria’s tyre range is as impenetrable as ever, but that Cycling Weekly test seems to compare the Corsa Speed tubeless tyre with the regular (non-Speed) Corsa tubular and tube-type clincher.

Since the Speed is significantly faster than the non-Speed Corsa among tubular and clincher models tested by Bicycle Rolling Resistance, the comparison doesn’t seem fair.

Additionally, the test used a 23 mm tubeless tyre while the others were 25 mm. With that power-monster riding in his aerodynamic position (both the opposite of what you’d want when testing rolling resistance, by the way, since those factors exaggerate aerodynamic noise), on a smooth surface, and using tyres of generally very low rolling resistance, a 23 mm tyre almost certainly gains more aerodynamically than it loses in rolling resistance compared to a 25 mm tyre. So using a 23 mm tyre gives tubeless a second unfair advantage here.

From what I’ve read and understood on this topic, tube-type tyres with a latex tube are still the fastest among similar tyres. The tubeless Corsa Speed is the only faster option than the fastest tube-type clinchers, but its problems of poor wet grip, short lifespan, and extreme fragility are now well documented. There is no similarly race-orientated tube-type clincher to compare to it, although the Continental Grand Prix Supersonic with latex tube is probably very nearly as fast.

The mass appeal of road tubeless remains surprising to me. There is a long list of disadvantages – many documented at length in this thread – and only one non-trivial advantage: greater resistance to small punctures. Since punctures are not a significant problem for me, even with lightweight tyres in glass-strewn Paris, this trade-off doesn’t work for me. The gouging price of everything tubeless-related is off-putting anyway.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #520 on: 06 February, 2017, 12:31:23 pm »
Here you go...

contains blood  ;)
(click to show/hide)

yuck. 
 
FWIW most PET bottles will start to split longitudinally when they fail, but then shatter into many smaller pieces in all directions. A new bottle usually won't burst until it gets to about 175psi. However if a bottle has been flexed repeatedly, it will be a lot easier to burst it; PET cannot be creased without weakening it.

  For the sake of safety, it is an excellent idea to bind a load of tape (almost any tape is better than nothing) around the bottle. This won't stop it from splitting, but it will mitigate the damage when if it does burst.  Also, it isn't a bad idea to have the bottle inside an old trouser leg or something.

As for going tubeless, I'm not tempted.  Too much faff.

cheers

Kim

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Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #521 on: 06 February, 2017, 02:09:09 pm »
For the sake of safety, it is an excellent idea to bind a load of tape (almost any tape is better than nothing) around the bottle. This won't stop it from splitting, but it will mitigate the damage when if it does burst.  Also, it isn't a bad idea to have the bottle inside an old trouser leg or something.

Top tip:  Remove trousers first.

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #522 on: 06 February, 2017, 07:13:00 pm »

Yes, you should go tubeless. Even if you want a new bike that comes with the usual quality of OEM wheels, you should buy some tubeless rims or wheels and transition straight away.

Dare I say it - Flatus is correct. And it's good sense in summer too I reckon given that you can buy Vittoria Corsa Speeds in tubeless ready. There are increasing numbers of nice tyres from 23 upwards.
It will have to wait - budget gone on bike plus bottle cages etc. It will have to wait until next year for the grand tubeless setup (unless I can make these Fulcrum 77s work properly as tubeless rims and not have a significant faff doing so - maybe my birthday might be a good time for new tyres). I shall keep an eye on this thread...
Cheers
Duncan

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #523 on: 07 February, 2017, 10:06:30 pm »
Am I correct in summarising that:
Optimal is tubeless tyres and rim, best/essential for higher pressures
Rims can be adapted to tubeless with stans tape, depending on the rim you will hold higher pressures
Tyres can be adapted to tubeless with stans sealant, but you need to run low pressures
You can adapt both rims and tyres

The further you go down the list the lower your psi and the greater the risk.
simplicity, truth, equality, peace

Re: Tubeless for Dummies
« Reply #524 on: 08 February, 2017, 12:50:04 pm »
Am I correct in summarising that:
Optimal is tubeless tyres and rim, best/essential for higher pressures
Rims can be adapted to tubeless with stans tape, depending on the rim you will hold higher pressures
Tyres can be adapted to tubeless with stans sealant, but you need to run low pressures
You can adapt both rims and tyres

The further you go down the list the lower your psi and the greater the risk.
I think that's somewhat inaccurate. You need sealant for all types of tyre. Running non-tubeless tyres tubeless is probably a bad idea - the beads are not as strong as tubeless beads... But I'm only a reader - I have no actual experience of tubeless...
Cheers
Duncan