Tubeless for Dummies

[PaulF]

How wide does the rim tape need to be?

With my Vernier caliper, the internal width of the Grail rim comes up as a smidge over 20mm. I've ordered some Effeto Caffelatex rim tape in the 20.5mm size but taking the dip of the rim channel into account, I'm concerned that might not be wide enough. Does it need to go right to the edges for a good seal?

The rear wheel rim is slightly narrower, so the tape should be fine for that one at least.

Only gone tubeless on a mountain bike so may be different on a road bike, but my strip just sits in the "well" of the rim to seal the spoke holes

[jiberjaber]

What's the panels thoughts on recommended accessories for the tubeless generation, both on and off bike?

Repair kits ? I've seen some reference to anchovies, I'm not a lover of fish but suspect these might be something else....
reinflation ?  Mini-pump for on the road and spare tube (I sometimes wonder if tubeless is that good an idea!) or just a couple of CO2 canisters?
tyre levers?  I think I saw something about needing to have some special none sharp levers?

[zigzag]

How wide does the rim tape need to be?

With my Vernier caliper, the internal width of the Grail rim comes up as a smidge over 20mm. I've ordered some Effeto Caffelatex rim tape in the 20.5mm size but taking the dip of the rim channel into account, I'm concerned that might not be wide enough. Does it need to go right to the edges for a good seal?

The rear wheel rim is slightly narrower, so the tape should be fine for that one at least.

i used 25mm tape on 19c rim, it worked fine. i didn't want to use narrower tape as i thought dismounting the tyre bead off the "shelf" may snag the edge of the tape.

[Si S]

What's the panels thoughts on recommended accessories for the tubeless generation, both on and off bike?

Repair kits ? I've seen some reference to anchovies, I'm not a lover of fish but suspect these might be something else....

I've had lots of joy with these: https://www.evanscycles.com/innovations-tubeless-tyre-repair-kit-EV150146 including repairing a fairly hefty split in my mates tractor MTB tyre, worth keeping in an airtight container to stop them drying out. I use an empty Nuun tube with my CO2 chuck and some other odds and sods in.

reinflation ?  Mini-pump for on the road and spare tube (I sometimes wonder if tubeless is that good an idea!) or just a couple of CO2 canisters?

I'm carrying a mountain morph, not exactly small but purchased in desparate need when the mini pump gave up, also one CO2 canister in case I need to reseat the bead, CO2 is no good for the sealant long term apparently.

tyre levers - Just standard

[jiberjaber]

I've got a couple of pumps I could use both Topeak Rocket mini's in HP and HV variants so will consider them...

In terms of sealant, is it all much of a muchness similar latex solution or is there some preference to which supplier?  I'm not sure my wheels will come with any spare other so will probably have to buy some of that too...

[Ivan]

I've had to re-tape both my SL23 rims after only 9 months or so - the 21mm Stans tape was rucking up along the edges and couldn't get the beads to seat with new tyres. My remaining half-roll had lost it stickiness, so had to get some more from Evans in an expensive last minute rush to get out last weekend.

What do people find the shelf life of this stuff is like? Before this happened I was thinking of getting 60m of generic tape off ebay, but don't want to if it isn't going to last. Though maybe I was unlucky with a dodgy batch that hadn't been stored correctly.

[DrMekon]

Jan Heine claims his tyres are designed for use with Orange Seal. I've had success with their tape and sealant (but can't speak to the shelf life). What I can say is that the Orange Seal valves are crap - the Stan's design is much better. The Orange seal uses o-rings that deform or leak, and finding the sweet spot between the two is an arse ache. They have finally settled down, but it's taken a lot of sealant and much cursing.

[JamieD]

Tubeless on non-tubeless rims is going to drive me mad.

I've now got the front wheel working fine.

Gorilla tape combined with a Stans Rim strip and a load of sealant.

Rear wheel, the same but with less sealant because most of the bottle is on the floor after repeated attempts on the front wheel. Air pissing through the valve hole.

Specialized have a different definition of tricky to me

“The Cruzero wheels can be set up tubeless, but have been tricky for some people due to the pinned joint construction. Some suggestions that have proved helpful have been to use a good airtight tape with extra attention paid to the adhesion at the seam of the rim, use extra sealant than you normally would, use a compressor, inflate the rim holding the valve side up and the pinned joint down, and when inflating, shake the rim vigorously."

[bikey-mikey]

Tubeless on non-tubeless rims is going to drive me mad.

I've now got the front wheel working fine.

Gorilla tape combined with a Stans Rim strip and a load of sealant.

Rear wheel, the same but with less sealant because most of the bottle is on the floor after repeated attempts on the front wheel. Air pissing through the valve hole.

Specialized have a different definition of tricky to me

“The Cruzero wheels can be set up tubeless, but have been tricky for some people due to the pinned joint construction. Some suggestions that have proved helpful have been to use a good airtight tape with extra attention paid to the adhesion at the seam of the rim, use extra sealant than you normally would, use a compressor, inflate the rim holding the valve side up and the pinned joint down, and when inflating, shake the rim vigorously."

Optimism is good, 👍, but this is a bit like turning my bike into a jet ski..  ⚓️ ⚓️, ain't gonna happen.... 

[Christophe]

I've jumped on the tubeless bandwagon on my road bike after success on mtb and fat bike.
Just set up a set of Schwalbe Marathon Supreme tubeless Easy 700x35s on Archetypes with two wraps of gorilla tape. After faffing about with split tubes, soapy water, rapid track pump action and c02 canisters on the off road tyres, invested in an Airshot inflator which I would definitely recommend. Marathons popped up straight away no problem, quick squirt of stans, a quick shake and that was it. Did 50km commute today and have to say performance increase is noticeable compared to the Vittoria Voyager Hyper (and even they are a quick tyre). Apart from the lighter weight they appear to offer a much more cushioned and compliant ride. So far impressed.

Edit - reading up thread, one thing I will say is that the bead on road tyres is TIGHT. Broke two Park tyre levers which is a first for me.

[Christophe]

What's the panels thoughts on recommended accessories for the tubeless generation, both on and off bike?

Repair kits ? I've seen some reference to anchovies, I'm not a lover of fish but suspect these might be something else....
reinflation ?  Mini-pump for on the road and spare tube (I sometimes wonder if tubeless is that good an idea!) or just a couple of CO2 canisters?
tyre levers?  I think I saw something about needing to have some special none sharp levers?

On bike a couple of Co2 canisters, tubeless repair kit (anchovies - sticky rubber strips you poke through the hole if you get one too big for sealant) plus usual stuff you would carry including spare tubes (I've heard enough from Tippers to be slightly over cautious). Off bike - get an Airshot. Saves a lot of time and energy trying to mount and seal the tyres in the first place.

[jiberjaber]

I got one of the Schwalbe equivalents as it was cheap on the german store I got my tyres from.

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/schwalbe-tire-booster-577789?currency=3&delivery_country=190&gclid=Cj0KEQjw9r7JBRCj37PlltTskaMBEiQAKTzTfITjg0rR1H2NWnERbsspMC7XiWKOPVAw6Ge1kZUKdD0aAqkg8P8HAQ

I've been using the schwalbe tyre levers which came with their tubeless kit and so far they have been great.

I'm not carrying any other repair stuff other than a spare tube and a mini pump at the moment... I must make a note to take some patches with me this weekend.  I read somewhere that the anchovies make a mess of the (road) tyre more than they actually fix the problem?

743km so far on the One Pro Tubeless set up with H SON Plus Archetypes

[Christophe]

Good to know tubeless is working for you Jibber. Interesting about the anchovies. Used one on the fat bike and worked fine. Took it out once home and repaired properly with a tubeless patch on the inside. No problem since then about 400km ago.
Hopefully the marathon supremes will be a good choice. A bit heavier than the ones but possibly a bit more hard wearing. Had a regular set previously on the commuter and they were my all time favourites. Lasted ages.

[jiberjaber]

Good to know tubeless is working for you Jibber. Interesting about the anchovies. Used one on the fat bike and worked fine. Took it out once home and repaired properly with a tubeless patch on the inside. No problem since then about 400km ago.
Hopefully the marathon supremes will be a good choice. A bit heavier than the ones but possibly a bit more hard wearing. Had a regular set previously on the commuter and they were my all time favourites. Lasted ages.

I think the anchovy bit was in reference to tyres less than 30c but probably OK on MTB/FAT bike tyres I'd expect (lower pressures and all that)

[Phil W]

Interestingly the supremes use the same rubber as the ones. Will be interested to see how you get on.

[Christophe]

Interestingly the supremes use the same rubber as the ones. Will be interested to see how you get on.

Never had chance to fondle a one so no idea how they compare with supremes in regards to thickness, flexibility etc. Off on a 200 tomorrow so will be putting them to the test. Will report back and let you know.

[Christophe]

Well 234km done yesterday on the Supremes with no mishaps.

I like them. A lot. Bike feels a bit more sprightly and they offer a really smooth ride. Seem to soak up more road buzz than previous tyres I've been riding. Recommended pressure on the side of the tyre is 60-80 psi so opted for 70 psi to start. Seems a pretty goof choice. May go a bit lower to see how that changes the ride. So far they are a really good choice.

[sojournermike]

Well 234km done yesterday on the Supremes with no mishaps.

I like them. A lot. Bike feels a bit more sprightly and they offer a really smooth ride. Seem to soak up more road buzz than previous tyres I've been riding. Recommended pressure on the side of the tyre is 60-80 psi so opted for 70 psi to start. Seems a pretty goof choice. May go a bit lower to see how that changes the ride. So far they are a really good choice.

Good stuff. As a data point, at 80kg I'm currently running 75/80psi f/r in 25mm Ones, tubeless. Comfy and fast. Rims are 18 or 19 internal and the tyres come up at 26 or just over wide. 80psi is too hard in 28mm Ones, which measure 30+ on the same rims.

Mike

[PeeJay]

I really like my Marathon Supreme Tubeless.  I've got the 35mm ones on my commuter, I'm 77kg and run then at 50psi. Feel nice and supple and fairly fast for a 'touring' tyre. I got them in Feb last year and (*checks strava*) I've put 8920km on them since then.  Mostly with trips to work and back which includes some cyclepaths which are occasionally glass strewn. No punctures at all so far, not even ones that the sealant has had to deal with as far as I know .  The back one is looking a bit worn but still plenty of life in it. 
Expensive but me likey

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[Si S]

Good to know tubeless is working for you Jibber. Interesting about the anchovies. Used one on the fat bike and worked fine. Took it out once home and repaired properly with a tubeless patch on the inside. No problem since then about 400km ago.
Hopefully the marathon supremes will be a good choice. A bit heavier than the ones but possibly a bit more hard wearing. Had a regular set previously on the commuter and they were my all time favourites. Lasted ages.

I think the anchovy bit was in reference to tyres less than 30c but probably OK on MTB/FAT bike tyres I'd expect (lower pressures and all that)

I wouldn't say the anchovies are a problem but as ever YMMV. I've got 2 in my rear tyre and one of them has been there for over three thousand miles. I did have three but the third was plugging a large cut from glass which started to grow and unseat the anchovy so I patched it internally. This is on sector 28's at about 80psi.

I changed the goo the other week and it looks like an inside out hedgehog, if I ever have to put a tube in it's going to take half a day to remove all the sharps.

[tippers_kiwi]

Malcolm has posted a pretty good article recently (there is also a video in his latest news which is, umm, interesting) on living with tubeless.

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/blogs/news/living-with-tubeless-tyres

Malcolm is keen to convert the world to tubeless and considering the mileage, range of bikes and various type of riding he does I think he is a pretty good ambassador for the set up. He's the only reason I am still even marginally considering it as an option.

The info on CO2 and it's effect on the sealant is of special interest I expect.

[sojournermike]

I have other reasons to not use CO2, but I'm now at the point where I expect tubeless to go up easily with a track pump. CO2 doesn't play well with most sealant I understand

Mike

[Sea of vapours]

An interesting article and video. Thanks for the links.

What experience does anyone have of whether a fully deflated tyre, following a major puncture, will pop off the rim? The context is that I'm currently carrying a tube around for 'fixing' damage which the sealant fails to fix. I can see that it's inevitably messy if I had to use it but the advantage is that, with a tube, the tyre *can* be re-inflated even if a) it's popped off the rim for some reason, or b) I've taken it off deliberately since a tyre boot was the only way of fixing a major slash (I'm thinking bigger than can be plugged with an anchovy here, so the only alternative to an internal tyre boot would be super glue alone).

I'd like to only carry anchovies / glue, but it does seem that the scenario where the tyre is demounted from the rim is terminal with just that kit since it's never going to re-seat with a tiny hand pump. With a tube, the options for recovery are extended. I'd like to be convinced otherwise.

[sojournermike]

Probably depends on the rim and tyre combination. Schwalbe One on Kinlin Tvrims would probably go up with a mini pump. Likewise Vittoria Corsa Speed G+ TL(!) on Pacenti SL23.

Other combinations may not work as easily, or may need more than a single wrap of tape. It still takes a bit of experimenting to find out what new combinations work, but I've found the Schwalbe Kinlin interface to be reliable and easy.

Mike

[Phil W]

Malcolm has posted a pretty good article recently (there is also a video in his latest news which is, umm, interesting) on living with tubeless.

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/blogs/news/living-with-tubeless-tyres

Malcolm is keen to convert the world to tubeless and considering the mileage, range of bikes and various type of riding he does I think he is a pretty good ambassador for the set up. He's the only reason I am still even marginally considering it as an option.

The info on CO2 and it's effect on the sealant is of special interest I expect.

Interesting . The sealant is in contact with air all the time as you pump up your tyre with air. So not convinced about this PH thing when it also meets air on the outside. I haven't carried spare tubes on my road bike for 2.5 years now. The superglue tip is a nice one though.  Just need to get a puncture in my tyres after 3 and a bit years now.