Author Topic: 300km event for a mere £159  (Read 18464 times)

Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #25 on: 23 January, 2018, 01:29:08 pm »
Did either of you read the first line of my initial post?
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

Martin

Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #26 on: 23 January, 2018, 01:45:05 pm »
Did either of you read the first line of my initial post?

yes, and still don't see the relevance. It cheeses me off that people are making sportives of my long standing Audax event route and getting 300+ riders paying £30+ each to ride it but YPYMAYTYC

Incidentally why isn't there an AUK national series? IIRC the events don't even have to be in the same region or involve the same organiser (or didn't when they ran)

Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #27 on: 23 January, 2018, 01:55:49 pm »
Did either of you read the first line of my initial post?

Yes.

There are plenty of 300km rides on the calendar and enough other rides to enable folk to gain a SR award.

What is missing this year is a National 400 and that has been discussed elsewhere.

Whether AUK needs a 'proper AUK National series' might be a topic for debate at the Reunion weekend or the basis of a motion at the AGM. Not sure why linking such an event to a commercial event generates audax debate, unless you think AUK events should be organised on the same basis as the event you refer to and AUK needs to up the anti along with entry fees.

Take Velo Birmingham last year. Would AUK wish to be involved in such an event?

telstarbox

  • Loving the lanes
Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #28 on: 23 January, 2018, 02:30:09 pm »
Live and let live.

There are some riders who wouldn't contemplate even a 100km ride without (expensive?) support and there are riders who can get round 400km on two flapjacks and a bus shelter. Over time some in the former group might move into the latter. If they don't it's not really a problem.

On the other hand, the route information on the website mixes metric and imperial units which is completely unforgivable.
2019 🏅 R1000 and B1000

Martin

Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #29 on: 23 January, 2018, 02:34:04 pm »
On the other hand, the route information on the website mixes metric and imperial units which is completely unforgivable.

that's cos 187miles sounds a bit like a cop-out over 200, and people know feet better after all Snowdon is err 3000 and something

Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #30 on: 23 January, 2018, 02:42:23 pm »
yes, and still don't see the relevance

I'm sorry you can't see the relevance. The bit relevant to AUK is the phrase "in the absence of a proper AUK National series".

Not sure why linking such an event to a commercial event generates audax debate

You tell me; you're taking part in this discussion.  ;D

The rest of your post simply goes off on a tangent.

Anyway, at the risk of repeating myself; it cheeses me off that there are (presumably successful) massively expensive events like the one I mentioned when we cannot even have a National Series. And £300k in the bank too. Grumble.
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

Martin

Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #31 on: 23 January, 2018, 03:47:00 pm »
OK,  what's required for a AUK National Series event? I'm presuming a full service event with lots of TLC and manned controls (The first 400 I rode was a CTC National Event which I presume is similar; it was certainly very good)

I think the answer is probably an organiser who's willing to bit the bullet and hire more than one (or even zero) halls and a lot of volunteers. That's a very valid argument but having a (daytime) long distance event that's fully supported doesn't really compare.

rob

Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #32 on: 23 January, 2018, 04:16:38 pm »
(The first 400 I rode was a CTC National Event which I presume is similar; it was certainly very good)

 :)

Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #33 on: 23 January, 2018, 04:22:17 pm »
What do you mean by National Series?  Do mean a 200/300/400/600 having to be completed in at least 3 UK mainland areas (England/Wales/Scotland) accepting one duplication is acceptable (e.g. 200/600 in England)?

Or do you mean a National Event that would duplicate the National 400 but might be only 300km in distance?

Or perhaps the option of riding either a 300 or 400 starting from the same place?

I assume you are dissatisfied that AUK will not be having a National 400 this year.  No doubt AUK could go along the lines of the ride you highlight and spend considerable funds on organisation and pay a considerable amount on manpower. But that is only possible if someone is willing to grasp the event and all the time it takes and unless they are paid, like a commercial venture, there is little incentive.

Fundamentally, we are a volunteer led organisation with limited resources. Moving to a commercial footing will require more than a change in funding or ethos.

(PS: appreciated your input on the National 400 last year at the first Village hall)

Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #34 on: 23 January, 2018, 05:03:08 pm »
What do you mean by National Series?  Do mean a 200/300/400/600 having to be completed in at least 3 UK mainland areas (England/Wales/Scotland)

Yes, that.

I assume you are dissatisfied that AUK will not be having a National 400 this year.

Correct. Not only that but I've said many, many times that AUK should be responsible for an annual National (SR) Series.

No doubt AUK could go along the lines of the ride you highlight and spend considerable funds on organisation and pay a considerable amount on manpower. But that is only possible if someone is willing to grasp the event and all the time it takes and unless they are paid, like a commercial venture, there is little incentive.

Fundamentally, we are a volunteer led organisation with limited resources. Moving to a commercial footing will require more than a change in funding or ethos.

However it's arranged/organised I believe that AUK now has (and, to be honest has had for many years) the funds/resources to organise the aforementioned "showcase" National Series. It would introduce many more people to Audaxing leading to greater income for AUK subsequently.

AUK offering to cover volunteers' expenses would flush plenty of suitable volunteers out of the woodwork. There are plenty of events past and present which could have a modest uplift in creature comforts (i.e. controls with food/drink) Only the 400 and 600 need worry about any sleeping facilities.

I appear to have been banging on about this on and off for years; and yet again we have no National 400 this year never mind any other National events.

Am I the only person who thinks a National Series is a good idea?
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #35 on: 23 January, 2018, 05:29:27 pm »
Quote
massage and "free buff".

Presumably such services make this an X rated event?

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #36 on: 23 January, 2018, 06:55:03 pm »
I appear to have been banging on about this on and off for years; and yet again we have no National 400 this year never mind any other National events.

Am I the only person who thinks a National Series is a good idea?
No you're not. IIRC I've done a 400 and 600. Both nice - apart from the 14hours of heavy rain on the 600  ::-)

But I don't think the Future of Audax depends on them. And I think you could organise the kind of events you are talking about right now; the 2018 calendar - and the sell-out* that is the LWL - suggests you would get riders even without the "National" label. I think the stats do not show a big rise in newbies on previous Nat 400s/600s.



*read that as you will ;)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #37 on: 23 January, 2018, 06:59:37 pm »
Am I the only person who thinks a National Series is a good idea?

No. I think it is a good idea. However, what incentive? I assume that a medal or badge will be required. On a personal note, the offer of a badge or medal does not have an input as to whether I ride an event. The full TLC option might, although I am also happy with X-rated events except where opportunities are very limited (Scottish 400 where the facilities were definitely need).

Logistically, it could be a big ask for some to travel to Scotland, or Wales, and rules would need to be formulated in order to determine how much of the ride has to be in said country. Such debates have already taken place for Welsh SR. Also, I assume designated events required as it would be great pity if traditional events became too popular as a result of badge or medal collection (not that such behaviour is a bad thing).

Not beyond the whit of mankind to resolve, but whether it is needed is another debate and that debate could be energised at Reunion or at the AGM on 10 February as although not on the agenda, nothing stopping folk having a chat over coffee.

Sounds to me as you could be a useful chap to have on a working party to scope the idea.

Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #38 on: 23 January, 2018, 07:18:51 pm »
I'm not 100% sure I'm the right person to pick up this particular ball.

In a week's time my position at work's being made redundant and Mrs W and I have decided to sell the house. So I've no idea what I'll be doing for the rest of the year, where I'll be living or whether I'll be able to afford the rich man's game that is Audax...
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #39 on: 23 January, 2018, 07:27:50 pm »
Why is the focus on a National 400, rather than one of the other standard distances. A midsummer 300 could let most riders ride in at worst twilight.
Events I am running: 5th September 2021, the unseasonal Wellesden Reliability; HOPEFULLY Early April 2022, 3 Down London - New Forest 300K Audax;

Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #40 on: 23 January, 2018, 07:32:03 pm »
National 400s have quite a history. And they are also what some people consider to be the hardest distance.

But I'd love there to be a National 300 as well  :thumbsup:
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #41 on: 23 January, 2018, 07:32:20 pm »
Why is the focus on a National 400, rather than one of the other standard distances. A midsummer 300 could let most riders ride in at worst twilight.

I believe it is because 400 is seen as a step-up distance involving night riding for the vast majority of riders.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #42 on: 23 January, 2018, 07:37:30 pm »
Why is the focus on a National 400, rather than one of the other standard distances. A midsummer 300 could let most riders ride in at worst twilight.

I believe it is because 400 is seen as a step-up distance involving night riding for the vast majority of riders.

... unlike the 300km event that stimulated this thread!!!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Martin

Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #43 on: 25 January, 2018, 10:54:15 pm »
yes, and still don't see the relevance

I'm sorry you can't see the relevance. The bit relevant to AUK is the phrase "in the absence of a proper AUK National series".

Not sure why linking such an event to a commercial event generates audax debate

You tell me; you're taking part in this discussion.  ;D

The rest of your post simply goes off on a tangent.

Anyway, at the risk of repeating myself; it cheeses me off that there are (presumably successful) massively expensive events like the one I mentioned when we cannot even have a National Series. And £300k in the bank too. Grumble.

so; you'd like to see more National Series type events (ie lots of manned controls and TLC) and see this as a good opportunity for AUK to fill this need by financing them from their pot (when up till now all AUK events* have been 100% organiser led and financed; I speak as a long standing organiser)

assuming this were to happen; where are the (paid) helpers going to come from to make it all happen?

AUK has a proud tradition of helpers volunteering on events, personally putting back a little in time each year in return for the events they enjoy the rest of the year

some of course just pay their money and don't help but still keep it all running by supporting AUK

my 2p and also I have my own personal opinion on where the AUK funds should go

* LEL is prolly an exception I expect someone will be able to shed more light

Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #44 on: 25 January, 2018, 11:23:14 pm »
so; you'd like to see more National Series type events (ie lots of manned controls and TLC) and see this as a good opportunity for AUK to fill this need by financing them from their pot

Well, I said I'd like to see *a* National SR Series. But yes, you have understood me correctly.

assuming this were to happen; where are the (paid) helpers going to come from to make it all happen?

As I said up-thread: "AUK offering to cover volunteers' expenses would flush plenty of suitable volunteers out of the woodwork." But I did not say "paid helpers"; merely that AUK should cover their expenses. I also think that AUK should, at the very least, pay for the hire of any venues.

AUK has a proud tradition of helpers volunteering on events, personally putting back a little in time each year in return for the events they enjoy the rest of the year

I know that. However it does not mean that it's forbidden to have four premier events in a year run along slightly different lines.

To repeat what I said up-thread: "There are plenty of events past and present which could have a modest uplift in creature comforts (i.e. controls with food/drink) Only the 400 and 600 need worry about any sleeping facilities." I do not see this as an outrageous suggestion.
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

Martin

Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #45 on: 26 January, 2018, 12:00:21 am »
I can't do the quotes but I do agree with your reply;

but my point is that the lack of events you'd like to see in the calendar is because organisers are not willing to put them on, simple as that. AUK is an organiser led body. No amount of financial assistance from AUK is going to create the events you are looking for all the time it remains that way (as it should be IMO)

whosatthewheel

Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #46 on: 26 January, 2018, 07:03:38 am »
I think Wobbly is right, there is a big demand for TLC events and not enough offer.

In 2018 the only TLC events in the calendar are 400 km or over and I have counted 4 of them: 2 in May (fully booked since last autumn), one in June and one in July... the last two being 1k events, that's it. The total capacity is in the region of 400-500 entries. That means that at the very least, 90+% of the membership will not be able to ride a TLC event in 2018.

With over 7000 members and most events oversubscribed, it is quite clear we could do with more of these. Anything that makes organising them easier would see an increase.
Currently, as highlighted by the last National 400 organiser, one has to plan and arrange for everything down to the last detail, badge, sticker etc... obviously if AUK could provide some of the basics, as well as some advance money things would look more manageable.

That is not to say that Joe nobody comes up with a plan of a new TLC 600 and gets 5 grand from AUK no quibble... that will never happen, but given the huge reserves of cash in the bank, the soaring membership and the stagnation in the calendar, it would make sense to do something about it.


Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #47 on: 26 January, 2018, 07:40:03 am »
Which brings me back to my original post: the demand for a TLC 300 is so great that some people are prepared to pay £159(!!) to enter. Clearly folks are happy to fork out similarly eye-watering amounts for much shorter events as long, it seems, that they have the word "sportive" in the title.

Either way, I'd just like there to be an annual National SR Series please.
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #48 on: 26 January, 2018, 11:46:26 am »
With many sportives you pay a large entry fee, are promised the earth within the marketing blurb only to be sold short at the outcome.  However, assuming that the company promoting this particular event actually deliver what they promise then £159 is not unreasonable.  Saying that, I will stick with audaxes!

I totally agree with the suggestion of a national series of events but my worry lies not with the principle but the ability to deliver.   The National 400s have been delivered by exceptional individuals who were able to galvanise support and spend time on the organisation but as the record shows, it is difficult to find enough individuals to deliver a single annual event, let alone a whole series.  So what could be the answer: well it may be pie-in-the-sky but what about a special purpose company established by AUK to organise the entire range of rides.  In plain English, somebody with the event organising skills and means of accessing the necessary logistics, who is paid on a stipend to deliver a National SR series.  Think about the modus operandi of LEL.  Clealry the net result would be higher entry fees but that would have to be commensurate with the package provided to the entrants.
Organiser of Droitwich Cycling Club audaxes.  https://www.droitwichcyclingclub.co.uk/audax/

Re: 300km event for a mere £159
« Reply #49 on: 26 January, 2018, 12:26:10 pm »
I think it's worth pointing out (yes, I know it's obvious) that sportives are run for the purpose of making a profit. Therefore I think that it's possible to run a 300-with-TLC for much less than £159.
You're only as successful as your last 1200...