Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => PBP => Topic started by: mattc on 02 September, 2023, 10:15:49 am
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Nominations please for most dumb/dangerous/selfish act you saw on this (otherwise) beautiful event.
I'm gonna go in with quite a high card:
Level crossing going into Dreux. I waited at the red lights (with Tomsk, iirc); 3 riders blasted straight thru.
Do they KNOW how fast French trains move?!?
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I saw a rider with his Deliveroo backpack on... ;)
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There are no level crossings on high speed lines. Trains on some rural lines may safely be considered a hallucination.
We were riding in a straggley group of maybe 10 just after dawn and some riders at the front were riding close to the centre line as some riders seem to like to do. A guy comes up behind and starts yelling angrily about it.
He then decided to punish (?) the group by riding aggressively through the middle of everyone like a snooker break while yelling at everyone.
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I saw one rider who shouted 'IAN!' in a shocked voice when he saw me at the side of the road.
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Bloke came past me fairly earlier on, yelling all kinds of stuff in my direction. Things like saying Hello and using my name.
Bloke wasn't wearing a lid either. Go figure. :demon:
[pots and kettles 8)]
Other than that.....loads of 'red lights are invisible mate...it would seem.
Rear flashers get me.....red rag to a bull I'm afraid [to be fair......there weren't that many.
One or two knew I didn't approve [as they rode past me at a fair old lick...lol].
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Me, in the mirror, thinking I could finish under 80 hours :P
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I saw a rider with his Deliveroo backpack on... ;)
Teethgrinder, taking it to France and back before getting some bank hol work in Brighton.
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Rear flashers get me.....red rag to a bull I'm afraid [to be fair......there weren't that many.
One or two knew I didn't approve [as they rode past me at a fair old lick...lol].
https://www.paris-brest-paris.org/en/rules (https://www.paris-brest-paris.org/en/rules)
Article 8: Rules for bikes
.....
Bikes must possess a lighting system powerful enough to be seen at a distance of 100 m from the front and 150 m from the rear. It must be securely and permanently fixed on the bike, even during daytime, and in working order at any time. Flashing LEDs at the rear are forbidden.
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One fellow’s flashing eye-burner annoyed me enough that I told him that flashing lights were banned. When he shrugged, I loudly told my stoker to remember <frame number>. Strangely enough, he then swapped it to steady. If he hadn’t, he would have qualified for this thread.
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I saw some stressed looking Welsh bloke throw his brevet card at a Frenchman.
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I saw a rider with his Deliveroo backpack on... ;)
Legend ;D :thumbsup:
(When we were sat together at Dreux, Owen suggested ordering some decent food and getting TG to fetch it.)
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One fellow’s flashing eye-burner annoyed me enough that I told him that flashing lights were banned. When he shrugged, I loudly told my stoker to remember <frame number>. Strangely enough, he then swapped it to steady. If he hadn’t, he would have qualified for this thread.
I met several compatriots with flashing rear lights, each time I tried to be as polite and friendly as I could (given the circumstances, i.e. mainly tiredness) when addressing them in our mothertongue language about the rules, and let's be ambassadors of our country, etc., but one of them answered in a very annoying way and went on with his flashing light.
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You are nicer than me. I let several folk with flashing taillights continue on without comment but this light was violently bright. It was painful to be behind him but he seemed happy to draft other more considerate PBPers.
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There’s a particular light that does two warning flashing and then one crazy bright lightning flash (Garmin maybe?) and is annoying even when the rider has disappeared a mile up the road. People who enter events like PBP with those should have their bikes (all of them) summarily confiscated.
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There’s a particular light that does two warning flashing and then one crazy bright lightning flash (Garmin maybe?) and is annoying even when the rider has disappeared a mile up the road. People who enter events like PBP with those should have their bikes (all of them) summarily confiscated.
AFAIK, the problem is these lights offer multiple possibilities, including steadily non-flashing on, so they can easily pass any check.
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I was surprised by the number of folk who had working taillights that were completely obscured by drooping bikepacking bags. We had some changes of direction during high-speed nighttime curving descents when our headlight finally hit their reflective vests.
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There’s a particular light that does two warning flashing and then one crazy bright lightning flash (Garmin maybe?) and is annoying even when the rider has disappeared a mile up the road. People who enter events like PBP with those should have their bikes (all of them) summarily confiscated.
AFAIK, the problem is these lights offer multiple possibilities, including steadily non-flashing on, so they can easily pass any check.
Not if the checker flips through the "cycle". I wonder how easy it is to get a light that doesn't have a flash mode, these days? They are incredibly annoying on flash. I was mortified years ago when someone said my light was too bright and I found I'd accidentally had it on flash at the time. The angle is important, too.
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I wonder how easy it is to get a light that doesn't have a flash mode, these days?
Easy if you want a StVZO-approved dynamo light, and the molishers thereof usually have a couple of equivalent battery-powered options.
But if you're not setting out to buy a light that's designed to fit to a rear rack or mudguard, your chances of stumbling across something StVZO-approved diminish rapidly. If you want something at the FRIKKIN LAZER end of the spectrum (and I'm a strong proponent of having both - something sensible for normal group, and something obnoxious for shit weather in daytime), flashing is pretty much unavoidable.
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We have an extra Z appearing in the StVO rules here - Germany is liberal with its Zeds but not here.
The official blurb is as follows:
https://www.stvo.de/strassenverkehrsordnung/101-17-beleuchtung
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Some of the bikepacking bags have a place to mount the light on top which points the light directly upwards into the eyes of wheelsuckers.
(See also: short race blades, which focus road spray in the same way)
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We have an extra Z appearing in the StVO rules here - Germany is liberal with its Zeds but not here.
Forgive this dumb Brit, but I have no idea what this means!
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One fellow’s flashing eye-burner annoyed me enough that I told him that flashing lights were banned. When he shrugged, I loudly told my stoker to remember <frame number>. Strangely enough, he then swapped it to steady. If he hadn’t, he would have qualified for this thread.
;D well played Sir!
I think I'm going to rank flashers as a HiGh Stupidity score, because:
- they're quite clearly banned, and its there in The Rules AND french traffic law. And:
- you cannot argue about it if caught. You're easily spotted by the Motos!
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We have an extra Z appearing in the StVO rules here - Germany is liberal with its Zeds but not here.
Forgive this dumb Brit, but I have no idea what this means!
Kim called it StVZO twice, it’s StVO (no Z)
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Bloke wasn't wearing a lid either.
Was the last-minute helmet rule enforced, in the end?
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We have an extra Z appearing in the StVO rules here - Germany is liberal with its Zeds but not here.
The official blurb is as follows:
https://www.stvo.de/strassenverkehrsordnung/101-17-beleuchtung
To be fair, plenty of sources (manufacturers included) appear to abbreviate it as StVZO:
https://ride.lezyne.com/collections/led-stvzo
I'd've put good money on the Deutsch contraction of Straßenverkehrs-Zulassungs-Ordnung being StVZO...
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That’s interesting and clearly you’re right but I’ve never heard it called Straßenverkehrszulassungsverordnung, only Straßenverkehrsordnung. You learn something new every day.
Official website is just StVO though.
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That’s interesting and clearly you’re right but I’ve never heard it called Straßenverkehrszulassungsverordnung, only Straßenverkehrsordnung. You learn something new every day.
Official website is just StVO though.
Is www.stvo.de official? Its publisher, FORUM VERLAG HERKERT GMBH, doesn't sound like an arm of the German state.
There's also https://www.stvzo.de/ although I doubt that's official either.
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But if you're not setting out to buy a light that's designed to fit to a rear rack or mudguard, your chances of stumbling across something StVZO-approved diminish rapidly. If you want something at the FRIKKIN LAZER end of the spectrum (and I'm a strong proponent of having both - something sensible for normal group, and something obnoxious for shit weather in daytime), flashing is pretty much unavoidable.
Or a seat stay. I have two lights one battery, one dynamo, that are simply on, or off. No flash. And both are on my seat stays. (One each side). The also both have rear reflector.
J
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That’s interesting and clearly you’re right but I’ve never heard it called Straßenverkehrszulassungsverordnung, only Straßenverkehrsordnung. You learn something new every day.
Official website is just StVO though.
Is www.stvo.de official? Its publisher, FORUM VERLAG HERKERT GMBH, doesn't sound like an arm of the German state.
There's also https://www.stvzo.de/ although I doubt that's official either.
My chap, who is German, only knows it as StVO, he has never heard the Zulassungs version.
We have signs all round here which say that the StVO rules apply (for example in car parks) so that seems to be the German usage. Could StVZO be Austrian?
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This site looks official – at least, it has some blurb about Bundesministerium for Justiz and Bundesamt for the same, along with a German eagle – and it has a Z: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stvzo_2012/BJNR067910012.html
Could Straßenverkehrs-Zulassungs-Ordnung and Straßenverkehrs Ordnung be two separate sets of regulations? Perhaps the first is about vehicles and the second about using roads? My German certainly doesn't reach anywhere near legal understanding, so perhaps not...
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StVO and StVZO are two different things.
StVO deals with laws of the road. That's what you'll see being referred to on signs in Car Parks.
The StVZO regulates which vehicles are allowed on public roads.
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That website is the official German one and has an almost useless search
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stvo_2013/ is the other option.
Looking at it, we now see that the StVO is the rules of the road and the StVZO are the rules for the car.
Every day is a school day.
Edit: cross post with BerlinMatt
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Well there you go. StVZO is something I've picked up primarily in a lighting context from B&M's destruction manuals and similar.
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The guy wielding a GoPro selfie stick in the A group start for his YouInstaTwat.
(https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Bike-Fall.jpg)
Nominations please for most dumb/dangerous/selfish act you saw on this (otherwise) beautiful event.
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The American rider at Tinteniac who started yelling at the volunteers because he wasn't being served quickly enough. Yes, it was slow, which is why I had lunch at a boulangerie in the next village.
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I was mortified years ago when someone said my light was too bright and I found I'd accidentally had it on flash at the time. The angle is important, too.
I deliberately mounted mine angled down to not dazzle other riders, but I did feel guilty about all the velomobile riders I was passing. It must have been terrible for them, but you can't avoid all the people.
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You don't ride a low recumbent without expecting to be in the beam of everyone's lights. It's just the nature of the beast, and the velomobile riders will consider that a reasonable tradeoff for the performance/ergonomic advantages of a velomobile. (It's also a reason for them needing very bright front lights to see road hazards.)
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The most stupid that I saw sign of (but never actually saw) was the rider who lost a full bottle on the pavé of Av de Gaulle and didn't go back to pick it up (it was sometime before I came down around 4.30am so he had the time!). I picked it up but never found a rider claiming it. Given the climatic conditions and the fact it was filled with some sort of isotonic drink he might well have missed it later in the ride!
I was also unimpressed with the nice italian lady who was starting PBP unable to put air in her back tyre. I did it for her with the telescopic pump out of my on-bike toolkit, she was probably looking for a nice track pump, but it did show a disturbing lack of self-reliance.
OT but I did see a group of japanese riders doing some last minute inflating on the start line monday morning with one of those rechargeable electric pumps. I didn't hang around long enough to see if they succeeded!
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I was also unimpressed with the nice italian lady who was starting PBP unable to put air in her back tyre.
I also encountered an Italian lady in a similar predicament on my first PBP in 2003! She was between Mortagne and Villaines and had neither a spare tube or a repair kit with her - and, of course, no pump. I gave her a spare tube, at which point it became clear that she also had no idea how to remove her wheel or tyre.
Maybe it's an Italian thing. They assume a member of the patriarchy will be along at some point to help ???
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The guy wielding a GoPro selfie stick in the A group start for his YouInstaTwat.
(https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Bike-Fall.jpg)
Nominations please for most dumb/dangerous/selfish act you saw on this (otherwise) beautiful event.
You’re in the background of his video.
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There was the rider slowly and painfully doing a hop-along U-turn in the road just as a largish group approached. Cue lots of calls, cautionary hand-signals, and braking. But no abuse, which is pleasing. This was at Lavaré on the return where I was watching proceedings.
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I'd've put good money on the Deutsch contraction of Straßenverkehrs-Zulassungs-Ordnung being StVZO...
Wha? German using Dashes to separate words in a Noun? What's going on, the contraction should just be S.
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The guy wielding a GoPro selfie stick in the A group start for his YouInstaTwat.
(https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Bike-Fall.jpg)
<snort>
Must admit, I've watched a few "YouTubes" this week - and in some cases been very entertained - and whenever I realise they have a hand off the bars to film, I do think:
THAT should not be allowed if you're riding innna group. Really ought to be on the official penalty list.
(And A-group start?!? Sigh ... )
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The guy with a super bright rear light on his ass rocket which was of course swinging wildly.
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I saw a few people who classified as stupid:-
On the 3rd day I saw two Japanese riders passing me in a group taking full advantage of using aerobars, riding along happily whilst in the aero bars holding "Action Cams" in both hands, looking down at the screen as the aerobar position now allows you to do this. Don't know how you brake in an emergency when both hands are holding a camera like a squirrel holds a nut, probably drop it.
Second night, saw a rider with a blue light on at the back along with a red one, from a distance it looked like an emergency vehicle, I also saw him third and fourth night unless their was more than one doing it. On the fourth night, I saw the motorcylist's just ride past him but they stopped a rider with no back light in the same group.
Third night, saw a rider with a front light on the rear, once again the motorcyclists just rode past him, unless they was confused in passing and thought they had stopped and facing the wrong way.
On the third night, saw a good few with no backlights and also with flashing backlights but once again, the motorcyclists just rode past those with flashing rears.
But, I suppose the stupidest rider goes to the one on the last night when I had a rider passing me very close and another rider tried to squeeze through the gap and they did not fit and crashed into me sideways on as they passed, they left me struggling to balance, not to run off the road and not fall off all at the same time and all they said was "Sorry" as they kept going. They had all the other side of the road to overtake so why try and go through a non existent gap.
Since after starting and an "hour an a quarter" later when the group behind caught me and overtook, I knew this type of incident was on the cards. Virtually every group would speed past almost touching bars, the leaders would pull in front the moment they overtook and then all the others would follow suit. Every time I braced up in case I got rear ended by an idiot racing up the inside of the group. Why they passed so close and then swerve in, I don't know, their was nothing to gain and increased the chances of an accident and it happened many times right up to the finish.
I promised myself to do PBP 3 times, now that I have completed that task, thankfully I will never do it again.
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Nominations please for most dumb/dangerous/selfish act you saw on this (otherwise) beautiful event.
After about 1000 km, near La Fresnaye-sur-Chédouet, before 5 in the morning, on a rather fast descent, I see a rider crossing the street from left to right in the dark. He's pushing his bike.
I'm warning my fellow rider who is riding a bit behind me on my right. My friend slows down, but we realize that the guy is out to stop him!
He manages to stop in the last second, and the guy grabs him by the throat and yells at him in Italian. We ask him (in English) what he wants, and he screams at us that we should ONLY speak to him in Italian. WTF?
My friend is now about to smack him (he's at least a head shorter), but I can persuade him not to. I step up to the guy, he walks a step back, and we manage to break away, hysterically laughing in the face of this madness.
Was he psychotic? Was it a mix-up? We had no idea.
Later, we stop at a café.
It's the exact same café where another rider will have a violent encounter with him a bit later:
https://www.rennrad-news.de/forum/threads/pbp-2023.184422/page-30#post-5844462
Never got his starting number. He was tall, lean, shaved head, Italian (obviously), and had a blue jersey (of course).
Would *really* like to know what was going on with him!
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I saw a few people who classified as stupid:-
On the 3rd day I saw two Japanese riders passing me in a group taking full advantage of using aerobars, riding along happily whilst in the aero bars holding "Action Cams" in both hands, looking down at the screen as the aerobar position now allows you to do this. Don't know how you brake in an emergency when both hands are holding a camera like a squirrel holds a nut, probably drop it.
Second night, saw a rider with a blue light on at the back along with a red one, from a distance it looked like an emergency vehicle, I also saw him third and fourth night unless their was more than one doing it. On the fourth night, I saw the motorcylist's just ride past him but they stopped a rider with no back light in the same group.
Third night, saw a rider with a front light on the rear, once again the motorcyclists just rode past him, unless they was confused in passing and thought they had stopped and facing the wrong way.
On the third night, saw a good few with no backlights and also with flashing backlights but once again, the motorcyclists just rode past those with flashing rears.
But, I suppose the stupidest rider goes to the one on the last night when I had a rider passing me very close and another rider tried to squeeze through the gap and they did not fit and crashed into me sideways on as they passed, they left me struggling to balance, not to run off the road and not fall off all at the same time and all they said was "Sorry" as they kept going. They had all the other side of the road to overtake so why try and go through a non existent gap.
Since after starting and an "hour an a quarter" later when the group behind caught me and overtook, I knew this type of incident was on the cards. Virtually every group would speed past almost touching bars, the leaders would pull in front the moment they overtook and then all the others would follow suit. Every time I braced up in case I got rear ended by an idiot racing up the inside of the group. Why they passed so close and then swerve in, I don't know, their was nothing to gain and increased the chances of an accident and it happened many times right up to the finish.
I promised myself to do PBP 3 times, now that I have completed that task, thankfully I will never do it again.
Reminds me of on the 1st morning in 2019 as a group passed me the lead pulled to the right and sat up just after passing me.
It was close.
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I think with the exhaustion and lack of sleep, we can all be guilty of a what might be seen as a "dick move/lack of jugdement" in an event like PBP but this being my first PBP and other than an etape du tour probably the most global group I've ever ridden in, it was a bit of an eye opener for me how "road etiquette" is not as universal as I thought it might be!!
while I'd love to avoid stereotypes and broad brush statements, it was clear that some parts of the world have less awareness/care about the folk they share the road with.
The amount of riders just stopped on the road, to check a wheel/spoke/get snacks out of a bag, rather than just move half a yard further to the right, onto the grass was ridiculous. especially when it was done outwith daylight hours!
and one German chap we rode with a couple of times over the 3 days put it better than I could, when he described some of the 'groups' he'd encountered on the road as "not groups, but swarms of angry bees"!!
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My previous experience is that those nations with the strongest club cycling cultures were the best on the road.
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Probably not stupidity but a couple of things struck me.
Being overtaken by a fast group and the riders pulling in too quickly. I shouted at a couple and my elbow was brushed a couple of times. Eventually I was braced each time it happened.
There were a couple of times where I was caught and passed by a group that came round me and then slowed down. This happened on the last two legs and, eventually, I just rode on the front to keep the pace where I wanted. I was thanked at the finish by a French rider who liked working together.
I followed an Italian for 20k into Dreux who was only wearing one shoe. Never got round to asking.
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I followed an Italian for 20k into Dreux who was only wearing one shoe. Never got round to asking.
The other was probably a bit dirty.
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;D
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I rode for a bit with an Italian rider who was wearing white shorts. A bold choice for PBP, but I guess he wanted to match with his shoes and bar tape...
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Audax Italia does run organised bag drops for riders to ensure their appearance is pristine at all times.
No doubt there are laundry services and hair stylists available for members as well.
2027 I believe they will have a mobile espresso van at each control to ensure they don’t have to put up with mediocre coffee.
Audax done right!
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I saw a few people who classified as stupid:-
Second night, saw a rider with a blue light on at the back along with a red one, from a distance it looked like an emergency vehicle, I also saw him third and fourth night unless their was more than one doing it. On the fourth night, I saw the motorcylist's just ride past him but they stopped a rider with no back light in the same group.
This guy was very lucky not to have been picked up by the gendarmes or police. Blue gyrophares are quite definitely not allowed on anything other than an emergency vehicle (that does include gas and electricity emergency teams but I think all the others, water, breakdown trucks etc are only allowed orange). You can get the book thrown at you for that sort of nonsense (and probably delayed until outside control times in the case of PBP!)
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It's me... ;D
(https://i.postimg.cc/Z5pVXWP1/FB-IMG-1694813137192.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SnQ6MNvr)
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Audax Italia does run organised bag drops for riders to ensure their appearance is pristine at all times.
No doubt there are laundry services and hair stylists available for members as well.
2027 I believe they will have a mobile espresso van at each control to ensure they don’t have to put up with mediocre coffee.
Audax done right!
How do I join Audax Italia?
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It's me... ;D
(https://i.postimg.cc/Z5pVXWP1/FB-IMG-1694813137192.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SnQ6MNvr)
No, no - that's fine! And not unknown in my part of the audax world. Banjo, now that would be stupid!
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Audax Italia does run organised bag drops for riders to ensure their appearance is pristine at all times.
No doubt there are laundry services and hair stylists available for members as well.
2027 I believe they will have a mobile espresso van at each control to ensure they don’t have to put up with mediocre coffee.
Audax done right!
How do I join Audax Italia?
If you have to ask ...