Boycott Ender's Game?

[Charlotte]

A US activist group has called for a boycott of forthcoming science fiction epic Ender's Game in protest at the anti-gay views of author Orson Scott Card, who wrote its source novel.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2013/jul/09/enders-game-boycott-card-anti-gay-views

I'm conflicted about this - on one hand, I very much enjoyed the novel and as Wascally Weasel points out:

I'm also looking forward to Ender's Game but I urge you not to watch any trailers - if they have done it right it will be a great film with an integral plot twist that cuts to the heart of the story.  Needless to say, the trailer gives away a plot point that reveals far too much.  Sometimes not knowing is lovely.

To precis the film without spoilerising - think SF Futurewar on a grand Space Opera background from the point of view of gifted but conscripted children.

(my bold)

On the other hand, as a SF geek and gay woman, I feel like I should be supporting this campaign. 

[alexb]

I was going to say, does it matter? Then I read his Wikipedia entry.
In this case, I'd say wait til it appears on the net and watch if for free. Have your cake and eat it!

[clarion]

The man sounds like a complete wazzock.  But if he can write a good story, he wouldn't be the first complete wazzock to have that gift.

I'm not affected; I'm not inclined ever to read his books or go see the film.  So I'm in the boycott by default.  Not that that makes an iota of difference to the man himself.

Director of NOM, indeed!

[mrcharly-YHT]

I've read all of the Ender's series ( I think). Didn't realise OSC was so anti-gay.

erm
"Card is an avid fan of the science fiction television series Firefly"

At least one of the characters in Firefly has same-sex encounters. Sounds like OSC doesn't know whether he is coming or going.

[L CC]

Orson Scott Card is a mormon. If you've read the sequels, you surely can't be surprised at his views. He's a reactionary tossbucket of Utah wank.

(See also: Twilight author Stephenie Meyer, and, err, Mitt Romney)

Ender's Game is a brilliant book.

I'll go see the film. I think a better way of protesting would be to have same-sex love-ins at all showings.

[mrcharly-YHT]

I'll go see the film. I think a better way of protesting would be to have same-sex love-ins at all showings.

You offering to 'lend out' Chris?  I'd offer to help here but I don't do beards, sorry.

[Pancho]

That book is a pile of crud; SF for twelve year olds (which is no bad thing provided you are actually twelve, I suppose).

I'll be boycotting on that basis. My library would be a bit empty if I limited my authors to those who share (my definition of) Correct Thought.

[Gareth Rees]

I enjoyed Ender's Game when I was fourteen, so it's not just for twelve-year-olds. I think it's a masterpiece of manipulation: it encourages the reader to empathize with the hero (he's so intelligent and sensitive! he's bullied at home and at school! the adults in his life fail to protect him!) and then allows the hero to take the most brutal revenge (he kills the bullies! he commits genocide against a race of totally peaceful aliens!) without it ever being his fault. Revenge without guilt—now there's a powerful fantasy.

Also, in the light of Card's later high-profile homophobia, there's something unpleasant about the choice of the name "Buggers" for the aliens.

[Wowbagger]

I saw the thread title and thought it was the 1970s' England Cricket Selectors' wet dream.

[andygates]

Interesting response and analysis on the Mary Sue: http://www.themarysue.com/orson-scott-card-responds-to-boycott/

...I'd interpret that differently: it's a sulky "bah, I lost" that sits in my list of artists being douchebags.  If he were actively campaigning now, it would be different, but I think for me I'll wait for the reviews to come in.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I didn't think it was anything to do with cricket! But not being into SF I didn't have a clue what it was about - I did think "Boycott Ender" might be a name - until I clicked. So I can't really boycott something I have no interest in or intention of watching or reading - but would I if it were something I was interested in? I'm not sure - I kind of agree with Pancho's point here, but only up to a point.

Example 1: In India, most bookshops stock Mein Kampf, sitting on the "philosophy" or similar shelves next to the Mahatma. I'm sure not all its readers are nazis (and not all readers about Gandhi are Gandhians - in fact they're probably even rarer than proper nazis, but that's another topic).

Example 2: I've just been reading some P.G. Wodehouse. Makes me laugh out loud, great writer. But I cringe every time one of his characters describe another (it's usually Wooster of Jeeves) as "white" meaning admirable or morally good.

I'm not going to stop reading Wodehouse because of his (assumed, by me) racism but I'm not going to start reading Hitler either. But both of those are dead, so it's a bit of a different situation.

[pcolbeck]

I enjoyed Ender's Game when I was fourteen, so it's not just for twelve-year-olds. I think it's a masterpiece of manipulation: it encourages the reader to empathize with the hero (he's so intelligent and sensitive! he's bullied at home and at school! the adults in his life fail to protect him!) and then allows the hero to take the most brutal revenge (he kills the bullies! he commits genocide against a race of totally peaceful aliens!) without it ever being his fault. Revenge without guilt—now there's a powerful fantasy.

Also, in the light of Card's later high-profile homophobia, there's something unpleasant about the choice of the name "Buggers" for the aliens.

Probably not seeing as he is an American. Not sure they have the same slang as us on this one.

[clarion]

as the Cannondale Bugger child trailer demonstrated.  Great design: Appallingly unfortunate name.

[mrcharly-YHT]

as the Cannondale Bugger child trailer demonstrated.  Great design: Appallingly unfortunate name.

I believe that name was deliberate, reflecting on the hitch position.

Very good trailer, had one 2nd-hand, lasted 2 children then passed on twice more.

[Charlotte]

Surprisingly, Cory Doctorow's piece on the issue has failed to help me decide how I feel.  I suspect that the best advice so far might be Alex's:

I was going to say, does it matter? Then I read his Wikipedia entry.
In this case, I'd say wait til it appears on the net and watch if for free. Have your cake and eat it!

[Wascally Weasel]

It's a difficult question. 

I'm usually against artist boycotts on the perhaps weasel-worded (auto weasel) grounds that many artists seem to verge on the self selecting shithead spectrum anyway, whereby the more successful they become, the more of an arse they are and the more prone to exposing their previously unespoused racism/sexism/homophobia/anti-semitism; Mel Gibson for e.g. did the lot.  It doesn't stop Mad Max II from being an awesome movie but it does make you like Mel Gibson less.

I don't think that excuses their actions in any way but it is curious to look at the tone of early works, later works and their later public position and wonder either how they got to that point or how you ever liked them?

Taking Orson Scott Card's stories - I first read a short story of his as a teenager.  It's called 'Unaccompanied Sonata' and it's quite brilliant in my view.  It told of a theme that would characterise his books for some time.

He then wrote a bunch of SF novels, some of which I've read and enjoyed and a Mormon influenced SF book called 'Folk of the Fringe' which I haven't read but for friends of mine who have, it was a bit of a warning.

Much of Card's work has become rooted now in two threads - the Ender Saga and the Tales of Alvin Maker.

In my view, both were series of stories that started off well, were really interesting but the focus around the central character in each became increasingly messianic and quite frankly less enjoyable.

I only discovered the outright homophobia written by Card relatively recently.  It did surprise me at first as several of his stories, especially Ender's Game came across as very homophile if not actually quite homo-erotic.

To be clear, as written I had no problem with them on first reading (and re-reading) but you can't help reading it now with the knowledge "But you think this and therefore I'm not sure what this means anymore" each time you read it.

I have to go back to how surprised I was at Card's homophobic invective.  It seemed so extreme in comparison to what I had experienced in his earlier fiction.  His Mormonism does now run through much of his work and that cult faith is well known for its homophobia.

As I may have said elsewhere, he really does seem to protest so much on the subject of same sex relationships that I wonder at the extent of his belief - it's like he's protesting too much, in the manner of a Republican Firebrand shortly before being found fucking rent boys.

None of this does actually change my opinion on the book Ender's Game but it does on the author.  His later books have been derivative, tired and much less well written and I wonder if his anger is an outward expression of an inward anger or self loathing.*

I'll confess to looking forward to seeing it in the cinema - it's Space Opera and deserves a big screen viewing.  I have a Cineworld card so the only way I can protest and still see the film is to get a ticket for something else and then go in the Ender's Game screening.  I'll see it but they won't get the revenue.



*Look, I'm trying to avoid repeatedly saying HE LOVES THE COCK**, firstly because it's nothing to be ashamed of, secondly because it may not be true.

**But if I'm honest, I suspect he loves the cock but the Mormons won't let him.

[ian]

Not read the book or anything else by the chap, but this is the internet, so uninformed comment is a given and I'm a giver. Wikipedia reckons he's the great, great grandson of Brigham Young, so the Angel Moroni is practically giving him a piggy back ride to the shops and buying him a sandwich. And let's face it, that popular religious combo JC & The Latter Day Saints don't exactly have a monopoly on not liking the gays. Jesus don't like the gays, which is pretty odd if you think about it, because he was always hanging out with other men. Come on, there had to be rumours.

I suppose I'm a bit uncomfortable with the concept that everyone should agree with me and if they don't they should be boycotted, ostracised, and vilified. Naturally everyone should agree with me because I'm right. I certainly like the gays, they're just like ordinary people, but generally better dressed.

I'll see the movie but if he were, say, to find himself locked in a basement for several years with nothing other than a plutonium-powered gay sexbot for company, one that had been programmed to love, and there was only a limited supply of lubricant, then that wouldn't be so bad either.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Wascally's post reminds me of a film I can't remember the title of by an American director whose name I can't recall  but it was a minor cult among laddish types. Back when I worked in a far-flung outpost of Hollywood, I listened to this director and some of his actors commenting on his own film, and one of his favourite words for a particular character was "homo-queersicle" and similar homophobic descriptions, but at the same time he was positively gushing about other characters'/actors' finely honed muscles and manly hunkiness. There ought to be a word for it, like "homophobrotica".

[mrcharly-YHT]

That's an *excellent* word.

[Charlotte]

...but if he were, say, to find himself locked in a basement for several years with nothing other than a plutonium-powered gay sexbot for company, one that had been programmed to love, and there was only a limited supply of lubricant...

I'm sure I've seen that film too, Ian   

[clarion]

Surprisingly, Cory Doctorow's piece on the issue has failed to help me decide how I feel.  I suspect that the best advice so far might be Alex's:

I was going to say, does it matter? Then I read his Wikipedia entry.
In this case, I'd say wait til it appears on the net and watch if for free. Have your cake and eat it!

Uncharacteristic of Doctorow to conflate such different concepts as a boycott and a blacklist.

[Bledlow]

...Wikipedia reckons he's the great, great grandson of Brigham Young, so the Angel Moroni is practically giving him a piggy back ride to the shops and buying him a sandwich.

Brigham Young had 57 children, of who 46 reached adulthood. I suspect that there are an awful lot of people who are descended from him. Surely they can't all be so favoured?

[ian]

...Wikipedia reckons he's the great, great grandson of Brigham Young, so the Angel Moroni is practically giving him a piggy back ride to the shops and buying him a sandwich.

Brigham Young had 57 children, of who 46 reached adulthood. I suspect that there are an awful lot of people who are descended from him. Surely they can't all be so favoured?

Moroni favours his own and the state of Utah, so I guess so. He is after all an angel, and there's no point being an angel unless you can magically distribute more sandwiches than a Subway franchise. He could probably give a hippo a donkey ride if he wanted. Being an angel – in short – is cool. Plus you get wings. Chicks dig wings. On the downside, you have to go and bury stuff in people's gardens.

There's something mildly chuckleworthy about Mormons preaching the sanctity of marriage.