TdeF 2017

[spesh]

Remembering the hoo-hah when Jeannie Longo insisted on using her own pedals, I'd guess it'd be determined by the team's contract with the sponsor.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/06/06/sports/06iht-bike.html

Her next, and bigger, fight involved the federation. Although the French team had a contract to use Look pedals exclusively, Longo insisted that she could not use any but the pedals made for her by the Time company. It was not a question of endorsements, she insisted, noting that she did not receive a fee from Time, but a matter of fit.

Fearing the loss of a major sponsor because she refused to switch pedals, French officials dropped her from the 1991 world championship squad. When she announced that she was considering changing citizenship and riding for Monaco or Luxembourg in the Olympic Games, the federation said that it would not stand in her way. She did not pursue the option, choosing instead to skip the world championships and sue the federation.

If my memory serves, commentators or the cycling press have, in the past, talked about riders using re-badged kit, or simply having the logos and branding taped over.

[Samuel D]

There should be a cost to these choices of equipment,

But who decides what equipment is used? The team, or the sponsor providing said equipment?

Doesn’t matter. If it’s the sponsor, then there should be a cost to having that sponsor, etc., etc. The bicycle is a solved problem. If a sponsor wants to use experimental equipment for the sake of sales, as Shimano does with Di2, tough luck.

The present arrangement mitigates the cost of using bad equipment (or equipment extremely biased to speed until it stops working), since if it fails at a critical juncture, you can expect your opponents to wait for you.

I know this is a simplification, because when they’re already racing, no-one is expected to wait. But as the sport has become more rationalised, modernised, and professional, the time spent racing has increased. I maintain the whole stage should be treated as a race.

[Little Jim]

Remembering the hoo-hah when Jeannie Longo insisted on using her own pedals, I'd guess it'd be determined by the team's contract with the sponsor.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/06/06/sports/06iht-bike.html

Her next, and bigger, fight involved the federation. Although the French team had a contract to use Look pedals exclusively, Longo insisted that she could not use any but the pedals made for her by the Time company. It was not a question of endorsements, she insisted, noting that she did not receive a fee from Time, but a matter of fit.

Fearing the loss of a major sponsor because she refused to switch pedals, French officials dropped her from the 1991 world championship squad. When she announced that she was considering changing citizenship and riding for Monaco or Luxembourg in the Olympic Games, the federation said that it would not stand in her way. She did not pursue the option, choosing instead to skip the world championships and sue the federation.

If my memory serves, commentators or the cycling press have, in the past, talked about riders using re-badged kit, or simply having the logos and branding taped over.

There was an article on road.cc last week with photos of various bikes with carefully applied black tape over various non-sponsor company logos.

See also the Castelli Gabba jersey of a few years ago when the pros started buying their own and using a black marker pen to black out the Castelli logo, Castelli then responded with special edition jersey that came in a presentation box along with a black marker pen!

[Ian H]

I know this is a simplification, because when they’re already racing, no-one is expected to wait. But as the sport has become more rationalised, modernised, and professional, the time spent racing has increased. I maintain the whole stage should be treated as a race.

I prefer my sport more nuanced—more go than draughts.

[fd3]

Merckx was once interviewed about fair play riding, there was a quote from another rider saying that Merckx had waited after his rival had punctured, but Merckx denied it.  As far as he was concerned punctures are part of the course.

Toilet breaks and someone scattering tacks on the road are points where you should wait.  If someone chooses to ride with less durable tyres for weight benefit and punctures, or if someone removes their chain catcher for the same reason and their chain unships, then they have to deal with the consequences.  Riders don't wait for punctures in time trial stages.

I think the biggest issue is that it becomes a popularity contest, riders wait for Popular Froome but not for second tier riders like Dumoulin.

[Hot Flatus]

Nope. Its a yellow jersey thing.

[T42]

Yes - sort of.  If the yellow jersey stops then everyone stops; if one of his close rivals stops then everyone stops, but only if the yellow jersey stops to wait.

[PeteB99]

It's a money thing. The Team owners/Sponsors/TV Companies/Spectators who pay the riders wages want a consistent product.

For the occasional WTF happened there stage journeyman A beating Journeyman B is acceptable but the main interest is in the big names, Froome vs Porte vs Quintana vs Contador. The riders won't deliberately wreck the spectacle

[DuncanM]

It's a money thing. The Team owners/Sponsors/TV Companies/Spectators who pay the riders wages want a consistent product.

For the occasional WTF happened there stage journeyman A beating Journeyman B is acceptable but the main interest is in the big names, Froome vs Porte vs Quintana vs Contador. The riders won't deliberately wreck the spectacle

It might also be that the riders in that select group are all thinking that it could be them. If you think "1 good day here and I'm in yellow", you are likely to argue that yellow should have privilege.

[Exit Stage Left]

The collective aim of the peloton is to arrive in Paris. That's best achieved if someone is in charge of moderating the pace of the racing. Tours fall into two types, either with or without a 'Patron'. Froome's a 'Patron' as he's won three Tours.

The ideal stage from a collective point of view, has a climactic finish, but no-one is eliminated. Aru's attack was a challenge to the Patron, and Froome responded. FdJ can either blame Aru or Froome for the elimination of much of their team. Leadership of the Tour is a diplomatic position.

[Mr Larrington]

There was an occasion earlier in the week when G apparently stopped for a slash quite early in the stage.  Super D didn't quite call it "fake news" but did state that such behaviour was a not uncommon form of gamesmanship.

FdJ can blame who they like for the elimination of half their squad but the #1 person in the frame is Démare, closely followed by whoever had the bright idea of ordering the domestiques to stay with him.  Yes,  Démare had been unwell but if he was that poorly he should have withdrawn before the start instead of dragging the other poor sods down with him.

[citoyen]

No one waited for Eugene Christophe on the Tourmalet!

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Wasn't it Anquetil who said, "We are not sportmen, we are professionals!"?

[Mr Larrington]

Dunno, but itvwas definitely Geraint Thomas who said "we're not paid to entertain, we're paid to win races".

[Exit Stage Left]

Froome's positions Patron will have been enhanced by all the recent drug talk. He's not a goody two-shoes after all.

[Hot Flatus]

The collective aim of the peloton is to arrive in Paris. That's best achieved if someone is in charge of moderating the pace of the racing. Tours fall into two types, either with or without a 'Patron'. Froome's a 'Patron' as he's won three Tours.

The ideal stage from a collective point of view, has a climactic finish, but no-one is eliminated. Aru's attack was a challenge to the Patron, and Froome responded. FdJ can either blame Aru or Froome for the elimination of much of their team. Leadership of the Tour is a diplomatic position.

Poor old Arnaud Demare. Strange that he couldnt make the time cut. He didnt have any problem getting over the Cipressa at last year's MSR before going on to win it.

[Ian H]

Dunno, but itvwas definitely Geraint Thomas who said "we're not paid to entertain, we're paid to win races".

I think the race organisers want entertainment, whereas the riders want money/glory/a continuing career.

[Mr Larrington]

First Rest Day

W Barguil:	O hai! I am W Barguil and I am made ov teh Win! But liek I said last night, I am not Bethany’s father...
Bethany (7):	wha’evs!
Bethany’s Mum:	Bef’ny! ‘ave u cleaned yore teef?
Bethany (7):	Yes, Mum! I fink one ov em’s come loose though!
Bethany’s Mum:	Vey’ll orl be loose if u doan get a bleedin’ move on! U doan wanna be l8 4 skool agen, do u?
Bethany (7):	wha’evs! (Aside…) Still, it’s a rest day so I’m not liek I’m missing anything!
G Imlach:	Look here, young lady, we’ve been working our donkeys off 2 edumatain u proles!
Bethany (7):	wha’evs!
G Imlach:	OK, TV’s Super D Millar and *** Boulting, summarise teh race without deviation, repetition, er, hesitation, complaint or sarcasm!
N Boulting:	It wouldn’t be teh same!
SD Millar:	M Cavendish CP Sagan A Démare M Kitteh!
N Boulting:	G Thomas C Froome! L Calamityjane, W Barguil, F Aru. R Porte.
G Imlach:	BRITONS! Do ur duty!
G Thomas:	Pub?
Omnes:	Pub!
D Friebe:	O hai! O hai C Froome! Aru? AG2R?
C Froome:	Wnkr! I could have him killed. 2 DETH! But I didn’t try 2 barge him into touch. Honest. No, rly! R Bardet!
Bethany (7):	wha’evs!
G Imlach:	Now S Yates! Mind ur fukn language! AG2R?
S Yates:	Soz! Anyway! And we’ll see what happens!
Bethany (7):	wha’evs!
D Friebe:	D Martin, enlightenment!
D Martin:	C me bounce, liek teh innocent Derek Bentley! Also, there is still a long way 2 go!
Bethany (7):	wha’evs!
G Imlach:	S Thwaites!
Omnes:	Who he?
S Thwaites:	Oi! M Cavendish. B-Dog. Take it day by day. Ect ect.
Bethany (7):	wha’evs!
G Imlach:	TV’s D Friebe, hill us with climbs, d00d!
D Friebe:	Er, how?
G Imlach:	Er. TV’s Nice C Boardman! SCIENCE us!
NC Boardman:	Warm-down. Bollocks? Not bollocks? Yes. No. Who cares?
Bethany (7):	Not me, that’s 4 sure!
G Boardman:	At least he didn’t use me 4 a guinea pig this year!
G Imlach:	So there u haz it!
Bethany (7):	Told u I wasn’t missing anything! This toof is definitely loose though…

2moro on “South-ov-FranceEnders”: Will there be further fallout from Arugate? Which prominent member ov teh pelican will TP Fairy visit next? Will Bethany (7) find out who her father really is? And will Super D Millar finally break out a daft hat? Stay tuned 2 P@nd3m1c Pr0duckt10nz^TM® 4 all ur TdF lies!

[Beardy]

There should be a cost to these choices of equipment,

But who decides what equipment is used? The team, or the sponsor providing said equipment?

Doesn’t matter. If it’s the sponsor, then there should be a cost to having that sponsor, etc., etc. The bicycle is a solved problem. If a sponsor wants to use experimental equipment for the sake of sales, as Shimano does with Di2, tough luck.

<snippage>

yeahbut the uprong isn't the best of solutions. Or for that matter even the best solution already available. 😈

[mzjo]

Remembering the hoo-hah when Jeannie Longo insisted on using her own pedals, I'd guess it'd be determined by the team's contract with the sponsor.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/06/06/sports/06iht-bike.html

Her next, and bigger, fight involved the federation. Although the French team had a contract to use Look pedals exclusively, Longo insisted that she could not use any but the pedals made for her by the Time company. It was not a question of endorsements, she insisted, noting that she did not receive a fee from Time, but a matter of fit.

Fearing the loss of a major sponsor because she refused to switch pedals, French officials dropped her from the 1991 world championship squad. When she announced that she was considering changing citizenship and riding for Monaco or Luxembourg in the Olympic Games, the federation said that it would not stand in her way. She did not pursue the option, choosing instead to skip the world championships and sue the federation.

Around the time of this event there was also a french track sprinter whose name I have forgotten (shame on me) who had a bike contract with Corima which the FFC forced him to dump on excessive pressure from Look enforcing their exclusive contract with the FFC. There was a lot of bad blood over it at the time. The rider was the one who started riding keirin in Japan for experience (and money) and was part of the reigning Olympic (or world, can't remember which) tandem sprint champion crew 'cos the UCI dumped it as a discipline afterwards. The Corima frame was reckoned superior to the team issue Look and Corima continued supplying wheels (allowed to shut them up I think).

Edit after googling - it was Fréderic Magné I think.

[fd3]

Nope. Its a yellow jersey thing.

Clearly not a Maglia Rosa thing.

[T42]

Poor old Arnaud Demare. Strange that he couldnt make the time cut. He didnt have any problem getting over the Cipressa at last year's MSR before going on to win it.

IMHO he should be checking in with his cardiologist.

[Samuel D]

Démare was sick. I suspect Madiot only sent all those team-mates back to help him – and therefore out of the Tour – because Démare was draped in the French flag, something Madiot takes very seriously (that’s why Démare had no sponsor logos on his jersey, by the way).

[Mr Larrington]

R Majka a DNS today.

[spesh]

R Majka a DNS today.

Hardly surprising:

Bora-Hansgrohe team doctor Jan-Niklas Droste expounded on Majka's injuries.

"Directly after the stage we went to the medical truck of the Tour, but decided to go to the hospital for further examinations and to be sure that especially his spine is okay," Droste said. "He suffers from heavy contusions and can hardly breath because of the pain. He also lost a lot of skin and has some deep excoriations. From a safety perspective it's best to leave the Tour now and take some rest to recover."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rafal-majka-withdraws-from-the-tour-de-france/