VeloViewer Explorer Score and Max Square

[Solocle]

Personal choice what rules you're playing by.  But to my mind you need to visit the square yourself.  Anybody half-decent on a computer can probably fake a .gpx file, but it isn't the game we're playing.

Of course that still leaves the question of how you're allowed to visit.  Bike is fine, on foot or kayak generally seems deemed fine.  Flying over the top in a light aircraft?  Is the rule human-powered ?

How about a glider?  After all a bike can be pushed along by the wind or down a hill by gravity, a kayak going along with the tide and wind ,to be fair foot or swim must be the only way

I've already suggested that:  https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=108374.msg2497728#msg2497728

There are a couple of gliding aerodromes in the area... https://pngc.co.uk/trial-lessons/ is the closest, based at Middle Wallop. Also https://armyglidingclubwyvern.com/trial-lessons-2/ from Upavon.

Middle Wallop really is perfect, though...

[imajez]

How about a glider?  After all a bike can be pushed along by the wind or down a hill by gravity, a kayak going along with the tide and wind ,to be fair foot or swim must be the only way

A glider is entirely wind/thermals powered, so very different from a bike or kayak. Both of which can be stymied as much as helped by wind or tide. As for freewheeling DH, you had to pedal up the hill to start with.
A glider is also launched by being dragged by another plane or winch. So very much not even close to being human powered.

[Kim]

I'd accept a hang-glider as human-powered, if you carry it up the hill yourself and don't go chasing thermals.  Requires a suitable hill.

True human-powered aircraft require a very fit recumbent-trained rider to get off the ground.  Staying in the air is hard work.

Attempting to fly over Porton Down using either would be a Mk 1 Bad Idea.

I'd suggest that storing human power (using anything other than gravity and the mass of your vehicle) isn't in the spirit of such things.  Not that charging an electric aeroplane or glider winch or motorboat with a turbo trainer sounds like anything other than Type 2 Fun.

[Graeme]

Attempting to fly over Porton Down ... would be a Mk 1 Bad Idea.

I love this forum

[Kim]

Your best bet is probably to contract a rare disease in suspicious circumstances.  Persuading them to give you your GPS receiver back left as an exercise for the reader.

[Solocle]

I'd accept a hang-glider as human-powered, if you carry it up the hill yourself and don't go chasing thermals.  Requires a suitable hill.

True human-powered aircraft require a very fit recumbent-trained rider to get off the ground.  Staying in the air is hard work.

Attempting to fly over Porton Down using either would be a Mk 1 Bad Idea.

I'd suggest that storing human power (using anything other than gravity and the mass of your vehicle) isn't in the spirit of such things.  Not that charging an electric aeroplane or glider winch or motorboat with a turbo trainer sounds like anything other than Type 2 Fun.

What about e-bikes? As for the air, a human powered airship, where lift is maintained by buoyancy, but propulsion is either wind or human thrust... that's not really any different to a bike then.

Your best bet is probably to contract a rare disease in suspicious circumstances.  Persuading them to give you your GPS receiver back left as an exercise for the reader.

Nah, if you developed a such a disease, you'd be taken inside. The tile with the main buildings in isn't even hard to get!

[PeteBart]

Your best bet is probably to contract a rare disease in suspicious circumstances.  Persuading them to give you your GPS receiver back left as an exercise for the reader.

There is a bit of an implicit assumption that the open grounds of Porton Down are some sort of anthrax-soaked death zone. Actually, it is an SSSI with a lot of conservation/natural interest. (Seems like military ground is often well-conserved because us public *don't* go there!!). So I think the really best strategy is somehow to get an invitation through Natural England to study the grassland/butterflies/lichens/fungi etc. I presume you'd have to be well-qualified in your field to get an invitation. c.f. https://designatedsites.naturalengland.org.uk/PDFsForWeb/Citation/1003140.pdf 

[imajez]

What about e-bikes? As for the air, a human powered airship, where lift is maintained by buoyancy, but propulsion is either wind or human thrust... that's not really any different to a bike then.

It certainly is.
Wind and battery power are definitely cheating here
As for air transport, you are above the tile, not in it. 

[Solocle]

I can't read the small print but the signage at the entrance to that byway isn't exactly welcoming:  https://goo.gl/maps/ph3AT4Fsbfsu5kbf8

The northeast tile looks easier - it is about 150m along the edge of a field once you hop over the fence at the side of the byway.  A somewhat dated photo is here:  https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2356485

NB  I am not suggesting that this is a sensible idea!

I think I found the small print.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.1224998,-1.6355641,3a,15y,300.68h,83.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sneBz-xvg2UHC9HgOFBmG_A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Designated site under the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005, so trespass is as illegal as at Chequers or Faslane.

Unclear whether following a public right of way would constitute "trespass" for the purposes of the act, though, so it might "just" be the MOD bylaws that you're breaking...

[quixoticgeek]

What about e-bikes? As for the air, a human powered airship, where lift is maintained by buoyancy, but propulsion is either wind or human thrust... that's not really any different to a bike then.

It certainly is.
Wind and battery power are definitely cheating here
As for air transport, you are above the tile, not in it. 

I'd say ebike is not a valid way of bagging tiles.

I have noticed a few people have got tiles in .NL by wind surfing. Not sure how I feel about that.

But then I've got tiles by parking up in a layby, walking the length of the layby with my phone tracking me, and getting back in the car, and being driven off. Which is on the edge of reasonable.

J

[SoreTween]

But then I've got tiles by parking up in a layby, walking the length of the layby with my phone tracking me, and getting back in the car, and being driven off. Which is on the edge of reasonable.

To me, for my veloviewer adventures that's not on the edge, it's way past it. You didn't get that square by human powered means at all. But your vv map so your rules and there's no reason for you to give a rats arse about my opinion

[imajez]

I have noticed a few people have got tiles in .NL by wind surfing. Not sure how I feel about that.

Not human powered. Shouldn't count. Use a kayak if on water.

But then I've got tiles by parking up in a layby, walking the length of the layby with my phone tracking me, and getting back in the car, and being driven off. Which is on the edge of reasonable.

I doubt anyone else would think that.

I have two tiles I missed out in the Peak that I may park in area and then grab tiles as part of a 5km run. Which as a non runner will be very hard work.
They are also on a sketchy road I was trying to avoid, hence why they ended up getting missed in first place. Safer to run towards traffic than have it skim past bike at 60-70mph. There's another single tile I missed because rights of way were very confusing at that point. So have planned a 10km walk in area to also take in the tile I missed by 10s of metres.

[Kim]

I'd say ebike is not a valid way of bagging tiles.

Electric assist cycling seems fine to me; you're still cycling.  Certainly more so than using a train or car to go some of the way and then ride/walk/swim, which seems to be standard practice.

I'm not sure if I've actually visited any tiles by e-bike that I haven't been to by human power, but I'm less concerned about their legitimacy than the handful that I've bagged by driving to a racing circuit and riding round in circles.

[perpetual dan]

I'd say ebike is not a valid way of bagging tiles.

Electric assist cycling seems fine to me; you're still cycling.  Certainly more so than using a train or car to go some of the way and then ride/walk/swim, which seems to be standard practice.

I'm not sure if I've actually visited any tiles by e-bike that I haven't been to by human power, but I'm less concerned about their legitimacy than the handful that I've bagged by driving to a racing circuit and riding round in circles.

I feel pretty comfortable about taking a train and then having a day or several out, or going somewhere for a race or audax but not getting myself there / back. The rail network in the uk isn’t so dense as to allow an impressive cluster by walking up and down the platform, getting back on for another stop and repeating. In a similar way, I’m assuming that the tracks you ride round only give a very small number of tiles each.

[Zed43]

I have noticed a few people have got tiles in .NL by wind surfing. Not sure how I feel about that.

But then I've got tiles by parking up in a layby, walking the length of the layby with my phone tracking me, and getting back in the car, and being driven off. Which is on the edge of reasonable.

When a tile can also be bagged in another way then I would consider it rather lame. For example, there's a few places like you describe on the A28 (like between Nunspeet and 't Harde, and just West of Wezep) that can also be bagged with some off-roading. And the tile near Tjeukemeer on the A6 can be done with a kayak (then, while you're at it, bag the rest of Tjeukemeer as well  ).

I think wind surfing still takes skill, effort and possible hardship and therefore ok (unlike regular sailing boat); but I've never been on a board, so maybe it's way easier than I think it is.

As for military ranges not secured by 2 meter high fences topped with barbed wire: Sundays work best I think. Dress in hi-viz like you belong there ;-)

[imajez]

Electric assist cycling seems fine to me; you're still cycling. 

Except you are doing it with power assist.
eBikes make cycling, particularly on the hills silly easy. So very definitely cheating in context of a human powered challenge.

Certainly more so than using a train or car to go some of the way and then ride/walk/swim, which seems to be standard practice.

Not at all, the challenge is getting the tiles under human power. In places where there are vicious hills, a rarely any flat spots and lots of offroad, riding somewhere to then tile isn't really an option. It's not as if getting the tiles is any easier. It's very slow going regardless. Currently I'd have to ride somewhere, stay overnight, tile, stay overnight again and then ride home. Expensive in both time and money. Plus many of my off road tiling rides are only 25-50km and usually way harder than 150km rides I've done on roads. They can be like cross country trials riding on occasions. I have spent two+ hours in first gear on a tiling ride before now now. A fantastic ride, I should add, but not exactly quick. It took almost three hours to get to the planned 9km marker which ended up being 16km of riding with backtracking and diversions.

I'm not sure if I've actually visited any tiles by e-bike that I haven't been to by human power, but I'm less concerned about their legitimacy than the handful that I've bagged by driving to a racing circuit and riding round in circles.

How often do folk tile just a race circuit? Which would be a handful of tiles at very most.
Should I be doing something like a race track, it would be part of a longer ride anyway. 

[imajez]

I think wind surfing still takes skill, effort and possible hardship and therefore ok (unlike regular sailing boat); but I've never been on a board, so maybe it's way easier than I think it is.

The main difference is that you stand up when windsurfing. Both are wind powered endeavours that take real skill, but are definitely not human powered.

[Zed43]

I always thought it took a lot of arm-strength (and also core now that I think about it) to handle the sail; unless using a harness of course. Not so?

[quixoticgeek]

As for military ranges not secured by 2 meter high fences topped with barbed wire: Sundays work best I think. Dress in hi-viz like you belong there ;-)

The problem is there is a difference between a citizen of a country being caught trespassing on a military property, and a citizen of a foreign nation doing so. This changes the equation of risk vs reward. No tile is worth getting deported over.

J

[L CC]

I'd say ebike is not a valid way of bagging tiles.

Electric assist cycling seems fine to me; you're still cycling.  Certainly more so than using a train or car to go some of the way and then ride/walk/swim, which seems to be standard practice.

I couldn't disagree more. You're on a motorised vehicle. Just because you pedal while it's powered doesn't (in my mind) count.

But your vv map so your rules and there's no reason for you to give a rats arse about my opinion

^^That.

Windsurfing is windpowered but controlled by human muscles, no motors. Kite buggies and hang gliding would be OK for me, too. I'm not pedalling 100% of the time on a bike.

[Graeme]

But your vv map so your rules and there's no reason for you to give a rats arse about my opinion

^^That.

^^ yup...
saving that...

I'd say ebike is not a valid way of bagging tiles.

Electric assist cycling seems fine to me; you're still cycling.  Certainly more so than using a train or car to go some of the way and then ride/walk/swim, which seems to be standard practice.

I couldn't disagree more. You're on a motorised vehicle. Just because you pedal while it's powered doesn't (in my mind) count.

I'm happy to see people exploring places they've never been before, and I know the essence is 'under human power', but that's a compromised argument from the beginning, unless we walk/swim everywhere.

The conflict and disagreement only really arises when it all gets competitive. If it doesn't matter who has the biggest square or cluster, but if instead we can celebrate that our friends are exploring by the means most suitable to them, then I'm happy.

Copying someone else's GPS file and pretending you've explored somewhere you haven't is just sad.

[JonBuoy]

Attempting to fly over Porton Down ... would be a Mk 1 Bad Idea.

Agreed.

The Porton Down Danger Area is outlined in the image below along with the 'tricky' tiles.  It extends from surface to 12000' amsl.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Having read Alistair Maclean's "The Satan Bug" at an impressionable age, I'd stay well clear of Porton Down, although I have cycled past the entrance gate.

[TimC]

I’ve been in and had a guided tour, many years ago when I was based just up the road at Lyneham. Don’t remember very much of it now; it was mostly lots of Maycrete huts with various nasty things going on in them. They used to try and convince us they were researching the common cold, and we could volunteer to be subjects. We were not persuaded.

[Deano]

Building on some good forward planning (a ride down to Macclesfield for the start of a 600 a few years ago formed the spine of my cluster down to Cheshire, for example), my cluster is now pretty impressive. Graeme described it as like the spread of a virus I'm sure a tight square is the most efficient way to get a big cluster number, but I quite like having a breadth of places where I can add to it. Not that I'm likely to be riding round Shropshire or Cheshire anytime soon, mind. I think the tiny line heading up to Moffat at the NW edge is quite pleasing.



Just back from filling in a few gaps north of Eskdale and around Whitby. Back to pushing out the square in spring, audax duties permitting.