[HAMR] A Record Too Dangerous to Break...

[mattc]

Mr Godwin is still with us. He was on R4 the other day discussing the Olympics.

That's another Tommy Godwin. The 75,065 miles Tommy Godwin died in 1975, aged 63...

Is that what people mean when they talk of threads breaking Godwin's Law?

[Basil]

The other Tommy G is the track cyclist.  Won some medals in the 1948 Olypics.
A young Basil used to frequent his shop on silver Street in King's Heath. 
Sadly the shop closed years ago.

[MarkA]

Mike hall is not far off a double century each day and he is really racing round the world at the moment. He would just need to keep going after his round the world?? Mind blowing figures.

RTW is 18,000 miles.  So he would have to keep going round another 3 times. 

[Biggsy]

- A handy tip for Teethgrinder: If you start in the spring or summer you'll only have to ride through one winter - Tommy admitted his mistake was starting on New Years Day as he had to endure two bad winters.

This is actually nonsense - it's 365 days, so you have to ride every day of winter whatever.

It is not nonsense - with bad luck you could have the worst part of two winters within one calendar year - for example in 2010 when we had very cold and icy conditions in Jan/Feb and Nov/Dec.

With respect, that is yet more nonsense! If you hit a terrible Nov/Dec, there is nothing to stop the subsequent Jan/Feb being just as bad. I think you may be a believer in the "Law" of Averages.

Trumpet's first statement was nonsense (a bum note), but it stemmed from something sensible: Tommy saying, effectively, that he regretted starting in a bad winter.  "Bad" being the operative word, not just that he started at wintertime.

There's a 100% chance of experiencing a BAD winter if it's a bad winter when you start.  There's a less than 100% chance of getting a BAD winter if you wait for the current bad winter to pass before starting.  So it depends what the weather is like when you start.  All this is irrelevant though if you're setting the start date long in advance, and sticking to it, because accurate very-long-range weather forecasts aren't possible.

Am I right or am I right?  Ithangyou.   

[trumpet]

Trumpet's first statement was nonsense (a bum note), but it stemmed from something sensible: Tommy saying, effectively, that he regretted starting in a bad winter.  "Bad" being the operative word, not just that he started at wintertime.

There's a 100% chance of experiencing a BAD winter if it's a bad winter when you start.  There's a less than 100% chance of getting a BAD winter if you wait for the current bad winter to pass before starting.  So it depends what the weather is like when you start.  All this is irrelevant though if you're setting the start date long in advance, and sticking to it, because accurate very-long-range weather forecasts aren't possible.

I was only quoting from the book - I didn't think it through.... but remember he did carru on for the 100,000 mile record too !

Am I right or am I right?  Ithangyou.   
[/quote]

[mattc]

Starting on New Years Day has a certain resonance, and it does stop people accusing you of picking the weather!

[Citizenfish]

Hi,

Dave Barter here..brilliant thread and I am really interested in this discussion. I am deep into writing a book about the cycling year record and if anyone is considering giving it a go I would be DELIGHTED to talk to them about the logistics and also a few modern barriers to overcome. One of which is the conditions under which Guinness would accept a world record..they're hilarious. I worked with a fella who was planning an attempt this year but he baled out of the full mileage for various reasons, he then set out to establish an amateur benchmark but had his bike nicked after 1.5 months and has stopped.

One thing people forget when looking at 205 miles per day average..is the day's things go wrong and you are prevented from hitting the average. These days push then next day's mileage up and compound the problem. Think through your cycling year and how many of the 365 days ou rode [;-)] were trouble free. Were you never ill. Did you never have ANY family/social/legal etc.. commitments. You have to live the record for an entire year and also cannot let any weather, accident or other issue get in your way.

Anyway, I've got to go as tea has been shoved between me and the laptop. any questions about Tommy or any of the other riders please shout on or off thread. I love the discussion as it helps me enormously with my research.

Dave

[rogerzilla]

Hi Dave.  Are you still in Swindon RC?

Jaded has some experience of TV, and that is probably the key; that, or a running feature in a cycling magazine, but they all seem to be focused on racing (the Comic) or bloody sportives (C+).  How do the round the world guys pay for it?

I think your best hope of sponsorship is a cycling kit manufacturer (or several; jersey sponsorship is possible from five or six) as the record is not as impressive to non-cyclists.  Most road clubs manage to get some sponsorship here and there.

I agree that it is incredibly hard to maintain the daily average in the face of illness and other commitments, but those of us who've ridden with Teethgrinder know that he is not human.  He broke his handlebars trying to get up Smalldean Lane in the Chilterns on 86" fixed.  Unperturbed, he used his light clamp to hold the bar together and continued to London.  He doesn't often use trains because it's too much hassle to work out the timetable and buy a ticket, so he just rides instead.  He strips food tables bare like a swarm of locusts.  He has been seen riding a mountain bike that looks like, and weighs about the same as, a Harley-Davidson.

[Citizenfish]

Hi Dave.  Are you still in Swindon RC?

Jaded has some experience of TV, and that is probably the key; that, or a running feature in a cycling magazine, but they all seem to be focused on racing (the Comic) or bloody sportives (C+).  How do the round the world guys pay for it?

I think your best hope of sponsorship is a cycling kit manufacturer (or several; jersey sponsorship is possible from five or six) as the record is not as impressive to non-cyclists.  Most road clubs manage to get some sponsorship here and there.

Yes. I still an SRC member, in fact I now hold 3 committee positions!

I know the TV producer who produced the short feature on the two Tommys that was broadcast late last year. He is possibly interested in anyone who is prepared to have a go at the record as it would make a very good documentary. In fact we were considering pitching a programme on the history of the year record but there is zero footage to support it.

The guy who set out earlier this year really struggled with sponsorship. The record is dead in the public eye and all they care about is bloody celebrities who swim rivers and stuff. I felt that sponsorship momentum would build as the rider got further into the year and sponsors could see they were a serious and viable prospect. He unfortunately had no cycling track record and so his pitch to sponsors was not very compelling.

[rogerzilla]

I believe Teethgrinder has a pretty good, evidenced, audax record.

[Citizenfish]

Now find a sponsor who knows what an Audax is ;-)

Godwin/Bennett/Nicholson all had good support teams for their attempts..now Walter Greaves, he was a different kettle of fish. Little support, one arm.

[clarion]

Teethgrinder would need a stoker.

No, not because he'd be riding a tandem.  More someone to shovel food into his mouth.  I've seen how much he can eat on his current mileage.  If he steps it up, then

[MikeFromLFE]

It's worth remembering that the speed limit for HGVs was 20mph from 1934. My Dad tells stories of how club runs would latch onto the back of a lorry in the 1940s. There was also an extensive network of transport cafes. I don't wish to belittle the achievement, but it was a different world.

My father (who often rode 'stupid distances' in the 1930's & 40') confirmed it was a differrent world, but from what I remember him telling me - the differences were not always as obvious as we'd like to think. Apparently it was not uncommon for long distance lorry drivers to use drugs (?benzodiazepan) to keep awake on long runs, leading to crashes and fights at transport caffs. Drink driving was the accepted norm, so we shouldn't naturally assume that less traffic = safer roads. My father's abiding memories of going through large towns and cities (such as Leicester where I now live) was of cobbles and tramlines - both hazards to cyclists and very unpleasant! His tales of Transport caffs were that they were not overly welcoming places form those 'outside the club' particulalry at night. Certainly seeing more cyclists was the thing, so maybe there was less of the antagonism we might experience nowadays from motorists - many of whom may well have also been cyclists themselves?
I can't ask the old bloke to talk any more about cycling in those days .......

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

I seem to recall from the article in the Comic that Tommy Godwin had a number of club mates who would take turns in pacing him... so that he was not on his own all the time.

On the subject of pacing all the tractors around Selsey are speed governed to 27mph.  If you can get into the pocket behind them it you hardly have to turn the pedals to keep up.  Its great for the headwinds that you get in those parts 

[Citizenfish]

I seem to recall from the article in the Comic that Tommy Godwin had a number of club mates who would take turns in pacing him... so that he was not on his own all the time.

On the subject of pacing all the tractors around Selsey are speed governed to 27mph.  If you can get into the pocket behind them it you hardly have to turn the pedals to keep up.  Its great for the headwinds that you get in those parts 

You are right to an extent. Tommy was paced by his sponsors in the early part of the record but pacing stopped after July when his and Bennett's teams agreed to call a truce, so he rode the second half of the record completely unaided.

I don't buy the lorry theory at all. Think of the logistics of constantly finding lorries and trying to switch between them. How do you cope when you end up where the lorry stops and you don't know anybody at all? Godwin stuck in the main to routes between London and his home riding backwards and forwards between the two areas. He also HAD to stop regularly to get his mileage cards signed and witnessed. Something he could not have done if drafting lorries all the time.

[hubner]

"Dangerous"? More like a record too boring to break 

Also pretty surprised how little known this achievement is although this is something shared by the audax world, where acheivements gain little recognition even in the rest of cycling.

It might have something to do with doing something that is not overly difficult in itself (like riding at 13-15mph) but over a greatly extended period of time is not seen as much of an achievement by most people including cyclists.

With something like cycling around the world, most could appreciate that, even if you took several years to do it. But riding up and down on a random stretch of road all your waking hours, everyday, for a year, and most people would say so what?

And does this record have any rules. Eg can you just ride on any road in any direction to take advantage of a tailwind? Do you have start from the place you finish the previous day? Can you do it on an indoor track? Are you allowed a support vehicle?

[mcshroom]

And does this record have any rules. Eg can you just ride on any road in any direction to take advantage of a tailwind? Do you have start from the place you finish the previous day? Can you do it on an indoor track? Are you allowed a support vehicle?

Indoors that would be 483 221.6 laps of the velodrome - I think that would make me either very dizzy or nuts (or both)

[simonp]

Teethgrinder’s Audax points total in the 2007 season was based on riding mostly at weekends apart from towards the end of the season when he realised he could pass 40,000km. Then he started riding overnight on Wednesday nights between workdays, and was riding 800km over weekends between Friday night and Sunday evening. He could actually be daft enough to contemplate this.

I don’t know how many of the 365 days of the year TG was actually riding. Can’t have been very much more than 100 given he has a day job!

[Citizenfish]

Teethgrinder’s Audax points total in the 2007 season was based on riding mostly at weekends apart from towards the end of the season when he realised he could pass 40,000km. Then he started riding overnight on Wednesday nights between workdays, and was riding 800km over weekends between Friday night and Sunday evening. He could actually be daft enough to contemplate this.

I don’t know how many of the 365 days of the year TG was actually riding. Can’t have been very much more than 100 given he has a day job!

364 out of 365, don't know where you got the day job from?

[simonp]

Teethgrinder’s Audax points total in the 2007 season was based on riding mostly at weekends apart from towards the end of the season when he realised he could pass 40,000km. Then he started riding overnight on Wednesday nights between workdays, and was riding 800km over weekends between Friday night and Sunday evening. He could actually be daft enough to contemplate this.

I don’t know how many of the 365 days of the year TG was actually riding. Can’t have been very much more than 100 given he has a day job!

364 out of 365, don't know where you got the day job from?

TG is Teethgrinder in my post, not Tommy Godwin.

[rogerzilla]

Serendipity.  Or nominative determinism.  He was born for it.

[Ashaman42]

I also would be quite willing to chuck some money in the pot to see Teethgrinder give this a go. 

[Jaded]

Re TV - it is good that there is a documentary person willing to look at covering this. It isn't a very sexy story for that - fairly niche and (with respect to long distance riding) exceptionally boring subject!

Always room for blogging, press releases, etc.

I'd almost be inclined to not publicise it much until it was 1/3 or 1/2 way through - getting loads of coverage at the beginning then having to drop out a few weeks in would be a large effort for a low return. A year is a long time.

Regarding sponsorship - difficult to see that you could get a headline sponsor to cover this, but it might be that the amount needed could be covered by lots of smaller sponsors, e.g. us lot, some food suppliers, some cycling related suppliers. There's quite probably be a level of equipment, clothing and food that could be sponsored. but TG probably woudlt take too kindly to being force-fed Ginsters Pies, or made to ride a Halfords special. Or wear Rapha.

[Biggsy]

Re TV - it is good that there is a documentary person willing to look at covering this. It isn't a very sexy story for that - fairly niche and (with respect to long distance riding) exceptionally boring subject!

It's what BBC4 is for!

[BDI]

Clarion touched on this.
Does anybody know what 'domestic' support Tommy Godwin had in terms of a soigneur, housekeeper or devoted wife? ISTM that this would be an important aspect of any year record attempt and would need to be factored in, and costed.
Shopping, cooking, laundry etc would all eat into valuable riding time especially in the inevitable tough weeks and could make the difference.
I expect Mr T Grinder's HQ is pretty slick already, but should he decide to take on the challenge some sort of help would seem necessary.
I would be up for covering a day's reasonable costs. Are there 364 others out there, rather than being beholden to commercial pressures?

BDi