AAA Points

[hillbilly]

Heh, I knows.

We are, however, all AAA men.

"I'm Sp-aaarty-cus"

[tonyh]

But behold, hath not the Lord of the AAAs already spoken, upon tablets of stone which can be viewed at the aforementioned

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/audaxaltitudeaward/

[Aunt Maud]

I'm Briaaan and so's my wife !

Speak to us of loop de loop creaaator of the holy taaablet ?

[davebax]

No list of AAA in 200+ only on the AAA site this year yet?

I never start sending this data to Steve for publication until at least halfway through the season. This is because there's an approx. 20/80 % split of AAA points between 1st & 2nd half of season (and ICBA to do the sums when the numbers are small).

I should also mention that the BR AAA list (or Allrounder) is completely unofficial, and I don't guarantee to continue producing it. Ideally IMO it should be incorporated into the AUK Results webpages - I would welcome this, as at present I have to download the AUK distance points and AAA points tables to Excel, combine them and check how many of each rider's AAA point have come in BRs, quite a laborious process.

Needless to say, I hope the BR AAA list will continue, I agree with Hillbilly, LWaB, AuntMaud and others that as AUK is the Long Distance Cyclists' Association (it says so on the cover of Arrivee so it must be true), it should prioritise long distance cycling over short/medium distance cycling. Opinions will vary on what constitutes long distance cycling, but IMO anything below 200k doesn't qualify, which is what led me to deciding that the BR AAA list would be a good idea.

[marylogic]

If AUK wants to be as inclusive as possible and encourage more younger and more female members then denigrating the sort of rides that may be the only feasable option for those with a young family is probably not the way to go.

I'm quite happy with the idea of a separate no mates/kids BR AAA award if it stops people implying that some AAA rides or champs are inferior - which is just plain offensive

[LittleWheelsandBig]

People seem to get their nose out of joint over a perceived slight. You refer to denegrating shorter events and their riders. I prefer the concept of lauding longer events and the audacious riders who do them. That has got to be more appropriate for a long distance cycling club.

[bikey-mikey]

There is a difference in my mind between what could be done and what should be recognised.  Doing hill reps is not audax in the sense that I want to associate with.

As has been pointed out over time, normally by traditionalists like me, not every bike ride should be an an audax validated event.

Yep it's AAA, not audaxing - its a separate thing - the basic still audax happens and the repeats are superfluous to that!!

Yes, I know that in an ideal world a never ending course of different hills would be ideal, but you live in a more or less perfect area with lots of different hills in close proximity, do you not sir? (or did...) I've ridden your calendars, remember !!!!!!!  Others are not so lucky, so have to cut their cloth according to.....

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Not every ride should be an Audax ride. Not every ride that can be homologated by AUK is audacious.

Forcing an unsuitable route to fit an arbitrary concept like AAA at the expense of the basic concept of Audax is ... the best word I can find is disappointing. Trying to present this approach as something admirable is absurd.

[bikey-mikey]

Not every ride should be an Audax ride. Not every ride that can be homologated by AUK is audacious.

Forcing an unsuitable route to fit an arbitrary concept like AAA at the expense of the basic concept of Audax is ... the best word I can find is disappointing. Trying to present this approach as something admirable is absurd.

I have absolutely no idea what that mish mash of words means....

What's an unsuitable route exactly??  One you don't like, or one someone else doesn't like, or one that is too hilly, or too flat, or in the wrong part of the country, or doesn't have loads of café stops?  I'd would agree that danger from motorised vehicles could sway me to regard a ride in that way, e.g. roads that are clogged with fast moving HGV traffic, with lots of high speed roundabouts...

What do you mean 'arbitrary concept' , and how does it differ from a basic concept ?? Are you being arbitrarily basic, or basically conceptual, arbitrarily??

Not sure I remember anything above that your post remotely alludes to......

It cannot mean that a really hilly 75 k ride with lots of climbing is unaudaxy in some way when compared to a flat 50 km ride, can it??

Can anyone translate?? Maybe an actual example or two to illustrate??

[bikey-mikey]

And now for something completely different!!

Though I've said it before, it's worth mentioning that at one time I proposed a separate Veterans AAA award/cup/trophy/recognition, for those amongst us who struggle on the longer events due to age, but who could still get out and do a 50, 75 or 100 hilly...

Currently they get no points for ordinary audaxes of that length, and that's fine, and my idea was that they could still have something to go for if they didn't have to ride and be compared to the youngsters rolling out hilly 600s  (in a non-competitive way)

Initially it was welcomed, but when I put the idea to the Board of the time, who when all is said and done, were in a position to see all the cards, sadly it appeared that we've got too many trophies already!!  (The offer is still on the table if times change!!)

Also worth me mentioning that all the recent AAA winners, all known to me personally to some extent, worked really really really hard, and deserve much praise !!

[mattc]

If AUK wants to be as inclusive as possible

It doesnt.

Its about promoting long-distance cycling.

Otherwise we could give points for beer-drinking,  driving and/or [insert other leisure activities popular in the UK that can be measured]

[marylogic]

I've always liked the inclusivity of Audax, where you don't have to be an identikit Lycra clad mamil, and can ride what ever bike you like. I'd like other people to enjoy it too. Surely we can be pragmatic enough to make it accessible to the disabled, elderly, young mums?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Audax is accessible. A 50 is a little bit Audaxy, a 100 is a bit more Audaxy, a 200 is definitely Audaxy and a 600, 1000 or 1200 is very Audaxy.

As a long distance cycling club, the types of cycle rides and riders to be lauded are the long distance ones.

[mattc]

I've always liked the inclusivity of Audax, where you don't have to be an identikit Lycra clad mamil, and can ride what ever bike you like. I'd like other people to enjoy it too. Surely we can be pragmatic enough to make it accessible to the disabled, elderly, young mums?

This is quite a big question!

I'll address one part of it:
 are you proposing tough hilly rides (and a trophy for whoever does the most in a year) as part of making Audax more accesible to these groups?

[marylogic]

I do think acknowledging rides that may seem short for most of us are not trivial for some is a good start. 50k on a hand cycle is probably more audacious than 200k ridden by a healthy middle aged man with plenty of leisure time. I just think it would be sad if people were put off doing audaxes by a perceived elitist attitude

[hillbilly]

There is a difference in my mind between what could be done and what should be recognised.  Doing hill reps is not audax in the sense that I want to associate with.

As has been pointed out over time, normally by traditionalists like me, not every bike ride should be an an audax validated event.

Yep it's AAA, not audaxing - its a separate thing - the basic still audax happens and the repeats are superfluous to that!!

Yes, I know that in an ideal world a never ending course of different hills would be ideal, but you live in a more or less perfect area with lots of different hills in close proximity, do you not sir? (or did...) I've ridden your calendars, remember !!!!!!!  Others are not so lucky, so have to cut their cloth according to.....

The hills down here are easy to get 100km out of, but less so 200km.

Just to be clear, I've no issue with routes that specify 20 controls and more or less stick to the route.  The rider has then said they will do something and will then stick to it (peculiarly, specifying more control is actually more in line with the origins of audax).

But hill reps, added loops, etc that are added if the mood takes the rider are essentially a ruse to game the very low minimum speeds on Brevet Populaires.  The effect is to permit members avoid the risk of failing to complete a course having declared it in advance.  If it were an Altitude Award, I'd have less of an issue with it.  But linking it to Audax is where I get uncomfortable, even if within the current letter of the rules. But at the moment, it is for the individual to decide what feels appropriate for them. 

If I had my way, it wouldn't be possible (I'd require a declaration in advance of the controls and the AAA the member will claim, then require a reasonable route is taken between the controls, with a limit of how much more the AAA can be above that pre-declared).

[Aunt Maud]

I do think acknowledging rides that may seem short for most of us are not trivial for some is a good start. 50k on a hand cycle is probably more audacious than 200k ridden by a healthy middle aged man with plenty of leisure time. I just think it would be sad if people were put off doing audaxes by a perceived elitist attitude

I love riding a hilly 100 as much as the next person and there are awards such as the Brevet series and GdS that celebrate that achievement, but the championships should be about maximum audacity, not inclusivity.

[hillbilly]

I do think acknowledging rides that may seem short for most of us are not trivial for some is a good start. 50k on a hand cycle is probably more audacious than 200k ridden by a healthy middle aged man with plenty of leisure time. I just think it would be sad if people were put off doing audaxes by a perceived elitist attitude

I don't think many people would disagree.  Certainly I don't, having voted to permit electric assisted bikes on BPs for this very reason.  Inclusivity is important.

This is, however, in danger of deteriorating into another discussion of whether it is relative long distance or absolute long distance that should be what is primarily recognised by AUK. 

I'm in the absolute/objective category (i.e. 600km is better than 50km, regardless of personal circumstances) whereas I know others believe as strongly (and as reasonably) that allowance needs to be made for how difficult that distance is for subjective considerations about how hard it is for the individual member (be that physical, geographical, temporal, existential - ok maybe not the last one, at least not outside a 600km slog over the Pennines).

Often, the only way to resolve such polar views is to facilitate both.  In this case to have an AAA system that is similar to the current inclusive approach, and another (new) award system that is potentially exclusive (or as I like to position it, aspirational).

Regardless, the good news is that it is the weekend and we can get out there and ride our bikes 

[hillbilly]

Though I've said it before, it's worth mentioning that at one time I proposed a separate Veterans AAA award/cup/trophy/recognition, for those amongst us who struggle on the longer events due to age, but who could still get out and do a 50, 75 or 100 hilly...

Joints starting to ache, Mike?

I'm sure if Steve is aware of the suggestion, he might facilitate it.

Whilst he's at it, he might want to consider the FAAAty award.  For those of a big boned nature.   

[hillbilly]

I do think acknowledging rides that may seem short for most of us are not trivial for some is a good start. 50k on a hand cycle is probably more audacious than 200k ridden by a healthy middle aged man with plenty of leisure time. I just think it would be sad if people were put off doing audaxes by a perceived elitist attitude

I love riding a hilly 100 as much as the next person and there are awards such as the Brevet series and GdS that celebrate that achievement, but the championships should be about maximum audacity, not inclusivity.

Whilst I agree, I also understand the argument that the championships should be abolished because they promote that very mentality (or more generally, behaviours that are not compatible with the ever elusive "esprit d'audax").

[PatC]

All you need to know about AAA

''The aims of the AAA....

To encourage participation in hilly events by offering a challenge to regular long distance riders AND ALSO (my capitals) those who do not ride the longest events but who enjoy hard riding. It is popular, not only because of the challenge, but also because of the scenery it has to offer.''

The award is aimed at encouraging participation in hilly rides (no mention of long distance) and offers a challenge to both long distances riders AND to those who enjoy hard riding.   

[hillbilly]

That is true of the AAA scheme.  I don't think anything on this thread contradicts that.

What AUK overlays on top of that need not be limited to that alone, however.

[bikey-mikey]

Though I've said it before, it's worth mentioning that at one time I proposed a separate Veterans AAA award/cup/trophy/recognition, for those amongst us who struggle on the longer events due to age, but who could still get out and do a 50, 75 or 100 hilly...

Joints starting to ache, Mike?

I'm sure if Steve is aware of the suggestion, he might facilitate it.

Whilst he's at it, he might want to consider the FAAAty award.  For those of a big boned nature.   

Ho ho - but sometimes yes I ache all over, usually after I fall off....

I made an initial private approach to Steve, to see what he thought, before mentioning to anyone else. At the time, in those circumstances, he was in favour, though I cannot say for sure if he still feels that way... With his nod, I then put a case to the board of the time...

[haffers]

Well next weekend I have a flatish 200km perm through the New Forest and back for RRTY and the Lasham Loop next Saturday which has AAA and GdS goodness attached to it.

They both appeal to me for different reasons but I really find the GdS AAA rides very enjoyable and challenging; that long weekend will be 2 BRM points plus 1.5 AAA points and steps along the way to 2 goals, a standard SR and the AAA SR. There is absolutely no doubt in  my mind that the 5 winter 100k AAA rides make the AAA SR a viable target for me.

Each BRM and AAA rides separately are excellent  challenges but combined they are audacious. I will not bother the BRM or AAA points champions with my efforts as I purely want to meet the goals I set, 50 points for BRM and 50 AAA points. I have long since completed RRTY but am not overly happy with going out in bad conditions so messing about with AAA would potentially mean I ditch Audax as I do like the fact I can ride 100km rides to keep goals on target.

Goals keep me motivated - there are other goals so messing about with these will lead to looking elsewhere; plus they have sunshine in Spain, Italy and France !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[citoyen]

we could give points for beer-drinking

mattc for auk president!

The arguments in favour of 'inclusivity' are specious and somewhat exasperating. You don't get an 'I climbed Everest' badge just for visiting Nepal.