Pbp tyre choice

[John Stonebridge]

Ive used Conti Grand Prix 4 season 23mm this year and have had zero punctures but the jury is out on their other attributes (chiefly grip).  I think I only ended up using 23mm after I couldn't source larger sizes.

In previous PBP years Ive switched to Michelin Pro4 Endurance tyres after my last qualifier and will do so again this time around using 28mm on the Michelins.

[mrcharly-YHT]

After a few years out of audaxing (lel 2009 was my last one before this year) the bikes seem to have got a lot racier and I wondered what the current thinking is on tyres. I've so far opted for pragmatism over speed, using a set of 32mm marathon Supremes to complete my qualifiers this year. However, I'm in the 84h group for PBP and am starting to wonder whether I should sacrifice some puncture resistance for something a bit faster.

For reference, my rolling average has been 25.5 to 26.5 kph over the two longer rides (BCM and will p's shifty 400k), so I should be ok timewise, but I just want to give myself the best chance.

 I've looked at that German tyre rolling resistance website and the schwalbes look like they give away nearly 20w per tyre to something like a gp5000! Plus the fact they're nearly a kilo each, vs less than 250g each for the contis. I don't have much experience on the roads of normandy or Brittany, but consensus seems to be that the surfaces are better than here in the UK. I also happen to have a set of new gp5000s in the shed. What are people planning on using, or have used in the past?

Thanks in advance

your maths is a bit out.

GP 5000 all season - 12W
Marathon Supreme - 19W

So 7W per type.

Over a rolling course, the weight will make a difference

OOPs seen everyone else has commented.

Go for lightweight tyres. You'll find yourself flying up hills.

Makes a massive, massive difference.

I have some standard marathons, and some voyager hypers.
According to tests, not much difference in rolling resistance

According to rolling down the hill outside my house, the hypers (1/2 the weight), the hypers are much, much much faster.

Lighter weight just accelerates a lot quicker and over an undulating road you'll really notice the difference.

[vorsprung]

First PBP was on Conti 4 Seasons, in 28mm.  I liked them at the time.  They have a drawback that after about 1000km they wear a bit and then they puncture quite frequently.  Apart from that they are fast/light/grippy.  This was 2007 so they might have changed the tyre carcass compound
Also for PBP they were ok as I always fit new tyres before the event

Next PBP I used Schwalbe Ultremo ZX tyres.  These are not made anymore but at the time were probably the fastest tyre available in 28mm.  NB there are now lots of faster tyres in 28, 30 and 32mm widths widely available

Last PBP I used Michelin Pro Endurance 28mm clinchers.  I would probably have used my favourite tubeless tyres (Schwalbe G-One Speed in 30mm) but the bike with those on developed a fault at the last minute and I had to switch to the old faithful

 

[vorsprung]

Go for your best (fast) tyres for PBP.  Let’s say your moving time is 50 hours.  Then just 1 km/h faster moving means you’ll be 50km further up the road after 50 hours.  The French roads are pretty good.  Modern tyres are so good now, punctures are rare, outside hedge cutting and big pothole encounters. You’re unlikely to encounter broken glass on PBP itself.

Tyres aren't going to gain 1kph unless switching from Marathon Plus to Gp5000

EDIT: I just read the whole thread and he is riding 32mm Marathon Plus. I do agree with Phil.  Dump the Marathon Plus, you aren't commuting

[Tom]

Thanks all. Takeaway lessons for me are - fit some new nice fast tyres the week before PBP. And proof read my own posts before posting.

[hubner]

Fast tyres also are comfortable and makes the bike feel good.

[Ivo]

Thanks all. Takeaway lessons for me are - fit some new nice fast tyres the week before PBP. And proof read my own posts before posting.

Fit them 2-3 weeks before. Tyres are best when they have a few 100km on the clock. New tyres usually have a nice shiny coating with reduced grip when new. You have to wear through that before the tyre is perfect. And it gives you a bit of time to source a new one if one of the tyres proves to have a production error.

[quixoticgeek]

Thanks all. Takeaway lessons for me are - fit some new nice fast tyres the week before PBP. And proof read my own posts before posting.

Fit them 2-3 weeks before. Tyres are best when they have a few 100km on the clock. New tyres usually have a nice shiny coating with reduced grip when new. You have to wear through that before the tyre is perfect. And it gives you a bit of time to source a new one if one of the tyres proves to have a production error.

Esp when it's wet.

J

[Pickled Onion]

Go for your best (fast) tyres for PBP.  Let’s say your moving time is 50 hours.  Then just 1 km/h faster moving means you’ll be 50km further up the road after 50 hours.  The French roads are pretty good.  Modern tyres are so good now, punctures are rare, outside hedge cutting and big pothole encounters. You’re unlikely to encounter broken glass on PBP itself.

Tyres aren't going to gain 1kph unless switching from Marathon Plus to Gp5000

EDIT: I just read the whole thread and he is riding 32mm Marathon Plus. I do agree with Phil.  Dump the Marathon Plus, you aren't commuting

I ride with marathon plus most days of the week. They're great. But there is no way I would contemplate riding over 20km in one go with them let alone a whole PBP. Look at the rolling resistance for the Michelin competition, it's astonishing. On a pair of brand new tyres you're unlikely to get a single puncture, and even if you do that's five-ten minutes out of what 80? hours.

[quixoticgeek]

I ride with marathon plus most days of the week. They're great. But there is no way I would contemplate riding over 20km in one go with them let alone a whole PBP. Look at the rolling resistance for the Michelin competition, it's astonishing. On a pair of brand new tyres you're unlikely to get a single puncture, and even if you do that's five-ten minutes out of what 80? hours.

I did my first 200km BRM on a bike with Schwalbe Marathon greenguard tyres.

One of the first things I did after was swap them for something faster.

J

[iroiromono]

Set of 650x38b rene herse extralight tyres with about 300km on them now on standby for Paris.

Super Supple and fast with 45psi

[Lightning Phil]

Go for your best (fast) tyres for PBP.  Let’s say your moving time is 50 hours.  Then just 1 km/h faster moving means you’ll be 50km further up the road after 50 hours.  The French roads are pretty good.  Modern tyres are so good now, punctures are rare, outside hedge cutting and big pothole encounters. You’re unlikely to encounter broken glass on PBP itself.

Tyres aren't going to gain 1kph unless switching from Marathon Plus to Gp5000

EDIT: I just read the whole thread and he is riding 32mm Marathon Plus. I do agree with Phil.  Dump the Marathon Plus, you aren't commuting

You only need about a 12-13 watt difference to see a 1 km/h increase (on the flat) at typical audax pace.  Thus a saving of 6-7 watts per tyre will achieve that.  If bicycle rolling resistance website figures are to be trusted, then switching from a touring tyre to a fast road tyre front and back will achieve that.

Whilst aerodynamics plays the larger part, I wouldn’t dismiss tyre choice for some easy wins over long durations.

Having a set of more robust tyres for your everyday riding, and faster ones for events is not such a bad strategy.

Of course if you’re a fast rider, it may not matter. But for the slower rider, every bit of help to add speed, for the longer duration spent riding, may matter.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Whatever I currently have on my bike.  Unless they look worn.  Then I will buy a new pair.

[Zed43]

Whatever I currently have on my bike.  Unless they look worn.  Then I will buy a new pair.

The Marathon XR (no longer being sold) was once described to me by a knowledgeable bicycle maker as "the advantage is that they don't wear out, the disadvantage is that they don't wear out" 

[Ivo]

Whatever I currently have on my bike.  Unless they look worn.  Then I will buy a new pair.

The Marathon XR (no longer being sold) was once described to me by a knowledgeable bicycle maker as "the advantage is that they don't wear out, the disadvantage is that they don't wear out" 

The one having his workshop in a barn behind a farm?

[Zed43]

The same. Shame he doesn't publish more in English (actually somewhat on-topic, a snippet on the landing page on mounting unruly tyres)

[vorsprung]

Thanks all. Takeaway lessons for me are - fit some new nice fast tyres the week before PBP. And proof read my own posts before posting.

Fit them 2-3 weeks before. Tyres are best when they have a few 100km on the clock.

+1 good advice

[vorsprung]

Go for your best (fast) tyres for PBP.  Let’s say your moving time is 50 hours.  Then just 1 km/h faster moving means you’ll be 50km further up the road after 50 hours.  The French roads are pretty good.  Modern tyres are so good now, punctures are rare, outside hedge cutting and big pothole encounters. You’re unlikely to encounter broken glass on PBP itself.

Tyres aren't going to gain 1kph unless switching from Marathon Plus to Gp5000

EDIT: I just read the whole thread and he is riding 32mm Marathon Plus. I do agree with Phil.  Dump the Marathon Plus, you aren't commuting

You only need about a 12-13 watt difference to see a 1 km/h increase (on the flat) at typical audax pace.  Thus a saving of 6-7 watts per tyre will achieve that.  If bicycle rolling resistance website figures are to be trusted, then switching from a touring tyre to a fast road tyre front and back will achieve that.

Whilst aerodynamics plays the larger part, I wouldn’t dismiss tyre choice for some easy wins over long durations.

Having a set of more robust tyres for your everyday riding, and faster ones for events is not such a bad strategy.

Of course if you’re a fast rider, it may not matter. But for the slower rider, every bit of help to add speed, for the longer duration spent riding, may matter.

I couldn't find an estimation of how the watts of drag from the tyres affects the speed but Marathon Plus is rated as 23.6 and 28mm Conti 5000 are rated as 9.1

The difference is a little over 14W

[Lightning Phil]

Go for your best (fast) tyres for PBP.  Let’s say your moving time is 50 hours.  Then just 1 km/h faster moving means you’ll be 50km further up the road after 50 hours.  The French roads are pretty good.  Modern tyres are so good now, punctures are rare, outside hedge cutting and big pothole encounters. You’re unlikely to encounter broken glass on PBP itself.

Tyres aren't going to gain 1kph unless switching from Marathon Plus to Gp5000

EDIT: I just read the whole thread and he is riding 32mm Marathon Plus. I do agree with Phil.  Dump the Marathon Plus, you aren't commuting

You only need about a 12-13 watt difference to see a 1 km/h increase (on the flat) at typical audax pace.  Thus a saving of 6-7 watts per tyre will achieve that.  If bicycle rolling resistance website figures are to be trusted, then switching from a touring tyre to a fast road tyre front and back will achieve that.

Whilst aerodynamics plays the larger part, I wouldn’t dismiss tyre choice for some easy wins over long durations.

Having a set of more robust tyres for your everyday riding, and faster ones for events is not such a bad strategy.

Of course if you’re a fast rider, it may not matter. But for the slower rider, every bit of help to add speed, for the longer duration spent riding, may matter.

I couldn't find an estimation of how the watts of drag from the tyres affects the speed but Marathon Plus is rated as 23.6 and 28mm Conti 5000 are rated as 9.1

The difference is a little over 14W

So 28W across two tyres, even better

[grams]

I can’t find anything on the BRR site where they check their measurements in any sort of on-the-road test. I’m a bit skeptical the differences would be as huge as measured on the machine.

[Tom]

Me too. 28w would be huge. That said, I used to do a lot of time trialling and there was a lot of bolox spoken about various gains to be had, but tyre choice was one of the constants. Needless to add, and as has become something of a theme in my cycling life, I ignored all the experts and stuck with my trusty conti competition tubs. Still, it's never too late to learn!

[Ajax Bay]

You only need about a 12-13 watt difference to see a 1 km/h increase (on the flat) at typical audax pace.  Thus a saving of 6-7 watts per tyre will achieve that.  If bicycle rolling resistance website figures are to be trusted, then switching from a touring tyre to a fast road tyre front and back will achieve that.

I couldn't find an estimation of how the watts of drag from the tyres affects the speed but Marathon Plus is rated as 23.6w and 28mm Conti 5000 are rated as 9.1w
The difference is a little over 14W

http://bikecalculator.com/ So 28w difference.
A rider pushing 150w average will take 61 hours moving time for PBP with, say, 30w going into overcoming the rolling resistance of their 'average' tyres.
With 5000s fitted: 59 hours and with M+s fitted the time would be 66 hours (ceteris paribus, almost: I added a kilo to the bike weight as M+s in 28 are about 500g heavier (each) than 5000s).
Clever people on here will be able to explain why that's wrong, and how.
Anecdata: I fitted an M+ in 28 (only choice at after 6pm) in Garstang near end D4 of an end-to-end, and rode the last 5 days with it, plus on to Kirkwall. Because it was 5+mm taller than its failing predecessor, I had to remove (and bin) my rear mudguard but with noone on my wheel and a rack bag protecting me (and it didn't rain in Scotland) that was no disadvantage.
Pleased to sell it with less than 1000km on it on return home: it looked unused

[grecko]

A rider pushing 150w average will take 61 hours moving time for PBP with, say, 30w going into overcoming the rolling resistance of their 'average' tyres.

How did you get that value? That seemed awfully slow for 150W so I went to bikecalculator and I got ~52h.

[Lightning Phil]

A rider pushing 150w average will take 61 hours moving time for PBP with, say, 30w going into overcoming the rolling resistance of their 'average' tyres.

How did you get that value? That seemed awfully slow for 150W so I went to bikecalculator and I got ~52h.

How much climbing and headwinds did you put into the calculator ?

[FifeingEejit]

Anecdata: I fitted an M+ in 28 (only choice at after 6pm) in Garstang near end D4 of an end-to-end, and rode the last 5 days with it, plus on to Kirkwall. Because it was 5+mm taller than its failing predecessor, I had to remove (and bin) my rear mudguard but with noone on my wheel and a rack bag protecting me (and it didn't rain in Scotland) that was no disadvantage.
Pleased to sell it with less than 1000km on it on return home: it looked unused

Photys ur it didnae happen, ken.