Author Topic: Metric vs Imperial  (Read 38809 times)

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Metric vs Imperial
« on: 12 March, 2014, 11:14:35 am »
Debate in the office yesterday. Headline referred to someone falling off an 800ft cliff. I wanted it changed to metres. Because that's the preferred style. And I'm the guardian of the style book. But everyone objected.

"No one thinks in metres!" they complained.

"800ft sounds much bigger than 250 metres!" they cried.

On the first point, I would refer them to my teenage son, who has learned only metric at school. It's only legacy quirks such as pints of milk and road speed limits where imperial units mean anything to him at all.

In fact, come to think of it, I was at school in the 70s and the same applies to me. Though I was the first generation of metric schoolkids, so it would be more understandable that there was some imperial hangover.

Also, I've taught myself to think of my height in centimetres and my weight in kilograms. Just because this is the 21st century after all. And besides, Thatcher was opposed to metrication, so I'm therefore in favour of it on principle.

On the second point, I would argue that the numbers are essentially meaningless in either scale. 800 feet sounds like a very high cliff. 250 metres sounds like a very high cliff. But I have no frame of reference for exactly how high that is regardless of whether it's described in metric or imperial.

To anyone who insists on using imperial units, therefore, I would argue that unless you can provide a meaningful context for the number (ten double decker buses, half the length of Belgium etc), it really makes no difference at all whether you use one scale or the other.

I let it go in the end, because I didn't think it was worth arguing the toss, but I still think I'm right. Discuss.

I also note that a newbie asked on the Audax UK facebook page the other day why all the distances were given in kilometres...  :facepalm:
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #1 on: 12 March, 2014, 11:19:26 am »
(As an aside, the piece does include an illustration to give some context, comparing the height to various famous tall buildings, but the point remains that without that context, the number is essentially meaningless.)
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

urban_biker

  • " . . .we all ended up here and like lads in the back of a Nova we sort of egged each other on...."
  • Known in the real world as Dave
Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #2 on: 12 March, 2014, 11:21:38 am »
Metric every time. Although, also being a child of the 70s, I can think in both. Even kms now thanks to audax.

Imperial is for mints and long lost empires.
Owner of a languishing Langster

Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #3 on: 12 March, 2014, 11:24:40 am »
Height in feet is for Merkans, and therefore I sneer at it, in a cosmopolitan Eurpan way.

(Equally miles for cyclists. Sheesh. Get with the 21st C, you quaint little colonials/throwbacks)

Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #4 on: 12 March, 2014, 11:27:55 am »
I can do both.

Curiously the venti at starbucks, being 20 fluid oz, has finally allowed me to remember the difference between a US and UK pint.

Hard drugs are in metric, soft drugs in imperial. Unless you're a drug smuggler, in which case it's metric.

Chris S

Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #5 on: 12 March, 2014, 11:28:50 am »
Only metric for me. Oddly, this appears to annoy some people. Tough shit.

Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #6 on: 12 March, 2014, 11:31:33 am »
Just remember chaps, 15.24 sounds much better than 6.

Metric all the way.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #7 on: 12 March, 2014, 11:36:47 am »
Just remember chaps, 15.24 sounds much better than 6.

More to the point, 10.16 sounds better than 4...  ::-)

Corollary question, since the panel seems to agree with me: are we all happy with metric because being cyclists we have a progressive mindset? Or is it because cycling, being a queer pastime practised by Continental types, is all done in metric (quirks such as gear inches excepted)?
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #8 on: 12 March, 2014, 11:38:27 am »
The BBC habit, although they're getting better at it, of quoting obvious imperial guessed figure (who actually measured the cliff citoyen's punter fell off?) and then over precisely converting it (243 metres) is very annoying.  So a thumbs up to the 250m figure.

In my world of work, I deal with railways.  These are still measured in miles and chains.

Personally I'm 1.84m tall and a wee bit too heavy in kilograms. How many stone thayt is, I have no idea.

There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #9 on: 12 March, 2014, 11:40:36 am »
It depends on what, where, when, why and who. Being Yet Another Child of the Seventies, I'm happy in most of both. The ones I always have to convert in order to understand are bar to psi for tyre pressure and Fahrenheit to Centigrade (I'll call it Celsius if you prefer but I'm used to it being Centigrade - so old fashioned, I know).

I think being able to cope with both is an accidental advantage of our (and many other places') mixed up systems.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #10 on: 12 March, 2014, 11:44:51 am »
I'm a child of the 60s and 70s so sit in both camps.

Anything below a mm I think (and feel) in thou(sandths of an inch).
From there to one inch I think in mm.
From there to something approximating a yard/metre I think in inches.
From there to something about the size of a house I think in metres.
From there upwards I switch to yards and miles.

And that's just distances.

I'm similarly pschizo for volumes and weights.
Rust never sleeps

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #11 on: 12 March, 2014, 11:47:14 am »
The BBC habit, although they're getting better at it, of quoting obvious imperial guessed figure (who actually measured the cliff citoyen's punter fell off?) and then over precisely converting it (243 metres) is very annoying.  So a thumbs up to the 250m figure.
This really annoys me too, and it's not limited to the BBC. IIRC in subtitling (not TV) the rule was to convert to metric for most markets, so the source - usually USAnian - would say something like "It's about 300 miles" and this would become "It's about 483 km"  ::-)
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Woofage

  • Tofu-eating Wokerati
  • Ain't no hooves on my bike.
Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #12 on: 12 March, 2014, 11:47:50 am »
Metric for measurements. Imperial for guessing. Simples.

For example: "it's about 6 inches long" or, more accurately, "this object measures 155mm in length".

Like others, I was never taught Imperial measurements so I've only absorbed the system from my surroundings (I'm 48). I comfortable with both (see above) but I have trouble visualising some Imperial measurement figures.

Miles not km though ::-)
Pen Pusher

contango

  • NB have not grown beard since photo was taken
  • The Fat And The Furious
Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #13 on: 12 March, 2014, 11:52:54 am »
Just remember chaps, 15.24 sounds much better than 6.

More to the point, 10.16 sounds better than 4...  ::-)

Corollary question, since the panel seems to agree with me: are we all happy with metric because being cyclists we have a progressive mindset? Or is it because cycling, being a queer pastime practised by Continental types, is all done in metric (quirks such as gear inches excepted)?

I prefer imperial for most things but work reasonably well in either. Whichever system I use, I prefer decimals to fractions. I'd rather know something needs to be 3mm with a tolerance of 0.2mm, than know it needs to be 1/8" with a tolerance of 1/125" - the former is nice and easy to work out as 2.8 - 3.2mm while the latter ends up being 0.117 - 0.133" which just seems like more of a faff (in the latter case I'd just work around 0.12 - 0.13 - losing the last digit means a tighter tolerance, which is always acceptable)

When I'm on a long ride I prefer to think of how many miles are left to go, simply because the number is smaller. Speed is best in kph because the number is bigger.


The BBC habit, although they're getting better at it, of quoting obvious imperial guessed figure (who actually measured the cliff citoyen's punter fell off?) and then over precisely converting it (243 metres) is very annoying.  So a thumbs up to the 250m figure.

In my world of work, I deal with railways.  These are still measured in miles and chains.

Personally I'm 1.84m tall and a wee bit too heavy in kilograms. How many stone thayt is, I have no idea.

The BBC tend to do that will all sorts of things, measurements, currencies etc. When someone fell off a high cliff, 250m is as accurate as it needs to be. I don't suppose it makes much difference to the outcome if it transpires the cliff was "only" 243m.

I think of my weight the American way, in pounds. It makes it easier to track how much I've lost than dealing in stones, and there just seems little to be gained by specifically changing to metric. If a doctor needs to know what I weigh I'm sure s/he will put me on a scale in whatever units they prefer.
Always carry a small flask of whisky in case of snakebite. And, furthermore, always carry a small snake.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #14 on: 12 March, 2014, 11:55:34 am »
So a thumbs up to the 250m figure.

Ha! That wasn't even a conscious decision - it's a habit I've developed because I too find over-precise conversion very annoying.

Of course the bloody cliff isn't exactly 800ft!  :facepalm:
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #15 on: 12 March, 2014, 11:56:29 am »
The metric system doesn't rock. No cock rocker would ever sing a song about how many kilometres he had to drive to see his baby or how many kilometres an hour he did in his daddy's Chevy  :P

Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #16 on: 12 March, 2014, 11:59:44 am »
Cars work in miles, people work in km.

(In Europe, he doesn't drive to see his baby, his woman comes to him ;) )

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #17 on: 12 March, 2014, 12:00:03 pm »
Speed is best in km/h

Ahem. FTFY. This is another bugbear of mine. "kph" is meaningless. Kilo-what per hour, eh? My maths teacher would have had an apoplectic fit at kph.

So, "km/h" for preference, but "kmph" if you insist on styling it that way.

Quote
I don't suppose it makes much difference to the outcome if it transpires the cliff was "only" 243m.

You appear to be assuming that the imperial figure was a precise measurement. It might just has easily have been several feet over 800ft. In which case, 250 metres might even be more accurate.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #18 on: 12 March, 2014, 12:02:13 pm »
The metric system doesn't rock. No cock rocker would ever sing a song about how many kilometres he had to drive to see his baby or how many kilometres an hour he did in his daddy's Chevy  :P

Non-Americans might find more interesting ways to express their infatuation than in terms of how far they're prepared to drive. ;)

(Scottish twins and their long-distance walking habits notwithstanding.)
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #19 on: 12 March, 2014, 12:02:41 pm »
"kph" is meaningless.
Klicks per hour, innit.
kmph is more pedantic than I'll get- mostly because 4LA are not as tongue-trippingly-lovely as TLA.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #20 on: 12 March, 2014, 12:07:54 pm »
Converting the unit but not the measurement is the other thing that annoys me. Milk bottles are a prime offender. For instance:
1.136 litre
2 pints
What's the point of that? If you're going to measure it in litres, put it in a sensible amount. Otherwise stick with pints. Either:
1 litre
1.whatever pints
or just
2 pints
we only put the litres in cos the law says we must

Cars work in miles, people work in km.

(In Europe, he doesn't drive to see his baby, his woman comes to him ;) )
Very true. The spread of European habits among British women is to be encouraged.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Guy

  • Retired
Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #21 on: 12 March, 2014, 12:08:45 pm »
Height in feet is for Merkans, and therefore I sneer at it, in a cosmopolitan Eurpan way.

(Equally miles for cyclists. Sheesh. Get with the 21st C, you quaint little colonials/throwbacks)
To sneer at and name-call everybody who doesn't use your preferred system of measurement says more about you than it does about them.
 
Guy - deeply offended by the above quote. >:(
"The Opinion of 10,000 men is of no value if none of them know anything about the subject"  Marcus Aurelius

Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #22 on: 12 March, 2014, 12:13:52 pm »
The metric system doesn't rock. No cock rocker would ever sing a song about how many kilometres he had to drive to see his baby or how many kilometres an hour he did in his daddy's Chevy  :P

Non-Americans might find more interesting ways to express their infatuation than in terms of how far they're prepared to drive. ;)

(Scottish twins and their long-distance walking habits notwithstanding.)


The Who couldn't see for kilometres. Gomez didn't get kilometres away. The Stones didn's sing about a moonlight kilometre. The list is endless.

Metric nazis get right on my tits. Ok, Audaxers use kilometres, but they're all fucking freaks anyway. But if a BRITON says "I'm 175cm and 65kg and I rode 85km at 25kmh on my 4.5m gain fixed, I immediately think: PRETENTIOUS CUNT!  :P
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #23 on: 12 March, 2014, 12:14:12 pm »
Converting the unit but not the measurement is the other thing that annoys me. Milk bottles are a prime offender. For instance:
1.136 litre
2 pints

Hmmm. I agree but fear that adopting your principle would give pub landlords and excuse to charge you the same price for less beer.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Pancho

  • لَا أَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ
Re: Metric vs Imperial
« Reply #24 on: 12 March, 2014, 12:15:17 pm »
Headlines must always be the higher absolute figure for shock value. So 800 foot cliff is far better than a poxy 250m cliff.

See also "heatwave" v "big freeze" headlines - the former use Farenheit while the same paper will use minus centrigrade for the latter.