Never done an Audax - is my Garmin Edge510 up to the job?...

[Maz]

I'm doing my first Audax next month "Rutland and Beyond" which is 100 km.
I bought a second-hand Garmin Edge510 for a tenner, seems to work but not had much time to explore it yet.
Sometimes it gives me turn-by-turn instructions, which is great. Other times, instructions are vague like "Go northeast".

Anyway I loaded the CTX file of the route from the Audax organisers site and I also opened the file in a text editor.
In it, there a re lots of <Notes> with textual descriptions of what manoeuvre to make.
I'm hoping that that these instructions will appear on-screen while I'm riding the route. Is this what these Notes are for?
Thanks

e.g.
    <CoursePoint>
        <Name>Start of r</Name>
        <Time>2024-01-09T16:28:20Z</Time>
        <Position>
          <LatitudeDegrees>52.6273399</LatitudeDegrees>
          <LongitudeDegrees>-1.04638</LongitudeDegrees>
        </Position>
        <PointType>Generic</PointType>
        <Notes>Start of route</Notes>
      </CoursePoint>
      <CoursePoint>
        <Name>Grange Ln</Name>
        <Time>2024-01-09T16:30:00Z</Time>
        <Position>
          <LatitudeDegrees>52.62889</LatitudeDegrees>
          <LongitudeDegrees>-1.04593</LongitudeDegrees>
        </Position>
        <PointType>Left</PointType>
        <Notes>Turn left onto Grange Ln</Notes>
      </CoursePoint>
      <CoursePoint>
        <Name>Uppingham </Name>
        <Time>2024-01-09T16:34:00Z</Time>
        <Position>

[Frank9755]

It looks like you are looking for something more sophisticated than most users.  Some people want turn by turn navigation but more usually it is a case of following a pink line on a map.

[FifeingEejit]

Used to use a 510
IIRC it's got mapping but not navigation so can't work anything out itself, and is thus dependent on what's in the GPX file.

What it's dependent on is the Cue Sheet (as it's called in RWGPS)

Looking at a TCX export of one of my RWGPS routes (cue sheet export is a premium feature IIRC)

      <CoursePoint>
        <Name>Keep right</Name>
        <Time>2024-01-23T17:45:45Z</Time>
        <Position>
          <LatitudeDegrees>56.08231300455368</LatitudeDegrees>
          <LongitudeDegrees>-3.3935823480492995</LongitudeDegrees>
        </Position>
        <PointType>Right</PointType>
        <Notes>Keep right</Notes>
      </CoursePoint>

So probably yeah

[Maz]

P.s. The "Cue sheet" is available on this web-page:

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/38477514

I've exported as a TCX file from this page onto the 510.

Does the Cue-sheet get loaded onto the 510? i.e. will I get T-b-T instructions?

If it is a premium feature as BIdj suggests above, then NO it looks like I won't get TbT nav.

[FifeingEejit]

So yeah it should show up, for anyone using a decent GPS device.

I tend to find its people using breadcrumb trails on older devices with low trackpoint counts that go horribly wrong.
Worst you can do with decent resolution breadcrumb trail is miss a fork junction and bomb down a huge hill before noticing and have to climb back up 

[Maz]

So yeah it should show up, for anyone using a decent GPS device.

I tend to find its people using breadcrumb trails on older devices with low trackpoint counts that go horribly wrong.
Worst you can do with decent resolution breadcrumb trail is miss a fork junction and bomb down a huge hill before noticing and have to climb back up 

Apologies - I don't understand what you mean by a 'breadcrumb trail'.

Is the 510 a decent enough navigation device for an Audax?

[Zed43]

Is the 510 a decent enough navigation device for an Audax?

Yes. I started doing audaxes with an Edge 800, so even older and it was fine.

Two things:
* battery life of earlier types was not as good a the latest ones and a unit that is XXX years old will probably have a noticably degraded battery; bring a USB powerbank and cable to charge on the go (while having tea and cake is a good moment)
* the unit will likely not yell/beep at you when you're just following a line on the screen ("breadcrumb trail") and then miss a turn; so you'll need to pay a little more attention to the GPS to see if you're still on track.

[JellyLegs]

So yeah it should show up, for anyone using a decent GPS device.

I tend to find its people using breadcrumb trails on older devices with low trackpoint counts that go horribly wrong.
Worst you can do with decent resolution breadcrumb trail is miss a fork junction and bomb down a huge hill before noticing and have to climb back up 

Apologies - I don't understand what you mean by a 'breadcrumb trail'.

Is the 510 a decent enough navigation device for an Audax?

There are two ways of setting up a route on most devices.  All of them will allow you to load the basic route.  This appears as a line on the map on the device display that you follow a bit like breadcrumbs in Hansel and Grettel or paper trails in The Railway Children hence the name “Breadcrumbs “.

 Most of them will allow you to also load turn by turn directions in addition to the breadcrumbs and these will then give you additional prompts such as “Turn left into High Street” and usually a countdown distance to the turn. 

Some will also offer dynamic rerouting functionality should you hit a road closure or go off route but that’s an aside.

I am not a Garmin man so can’t comment on the capabilities of the 510 but I use breadcrumbs only for my audax routes on my Wahoo unless I am riding overnight when the turn by turn directions coupled with spoken directions capabilities comes in handy (but kills my battery).

[Maz]

So yeah it should show up, for anyone using a decent GPS device.

I tend to find its people using breadcrumb trails on older devices with low trackpoint counts that go horribly wrong.
Worst you can do with decent resolution breadcrumb trail is miss a fork junction and bomb down a huge hill before noticing and have to climb back up 

Apologies - I don't understand what you mean by a 'breadcrumb trail'.

Is the 510 a decent enough navigation device for an Audax?

There are two ways of setting up a route on most devices.  All of them will allow you to load the basic route.  This appears as a line on the map on the device display that you follow a bit like breadcrumbs in Hansel and Grettel or paper trails in The Railway Children hence the name “Breadcrumbs “.

 Most of them will allow you to also load turn by turn directions in addition to the breadcrumbs and these will then give you additional prompts such as “Turn left into High Street” and usually a countdown distance to the turn. 

Some will also offer dynamic rerouting functionality should you hit a road closure or go off route but that’s an aside.

I am not a Garmin man so can’t comment on the capabilities of the 510 but I use breadcrumbs only for my audax routes on my Wahoo unless I am riding overnight when the turn by turn directions coupled with spoken directions capabilities comes in handy (but kills my battery).

Thanks for the explanation of 'breadcrumbs', makes sense.

To download the version of the TCX file which includes turn-by-turn instructions, I need to have coughed up and pay the premium (a trail of pennies, not breadcrumbs, you could say).
I am not willing to do that, so I will have to make do with the cues I do get plus doing some google-map research before-hand I think.

I think there might be a paper cue-sheet given out on the day but as I've not done one before, I can't be sure.
Cheers

[freeflow]

For a 100km ride any recent (past 5 years) smart phone will do the job fine.  If you are worried about battery a powerbank will keep the phone topped up.  I use Locus maps on my smartphone.

[alfapete]

I think there might be a paper cue-sheet given out on the day but as I've not done one before, I can't be sure.
Cheers

There will definitely be one of these, either in advance or on the day.

[JonBuoy]

So yeah it should show up, for anyone using a decent GPS device.

I tend to find its people using breadcrumb trails on older devices with low trackpoint counts that go horribly wrong.
Worst you can do with decent resolution breadcrumb trail is miss a fork junction and bomb down a huge hill before noticing and have to climb back up 

Apologies - I don't understand what you mean by a 'breadcrumb trail'.

Is the 510 a decent enough navigation device for an Audax?

There are two ways of setting up a route on most devices.  All of them will allow you to load the basic route.  This appears as a line on the map on the device display that you follow a bit like breadcrumbs in Hansel and Grettel or paper trails in The Railway Children hence the name “Breadcrumbs “.

 Most of them will allow you to also load turn by turn directions in addition to the breadcrumbs and these will then give you additional prompts such as “Turn left into High Street” and usually a countdown distance to the turn. 

Some will also offer dynamic rerouting functionality should you hit a road closure or go off route but that’s an aside.

I am not a Garmin man so can’t comment on the capabilities of the 510 but I use breadcrumbs only for my audax routes on my Wahoo unless I am riding overnight when the turn by turn directions coupled with spoken directions capabilities comes in handy (but kills my battery).

Thanks for the explanation of 'breadcrumbs', makes sense.

To download the version of the TCX file which includes turn-by-turn instructions, I need to have coughed up and pay the premium (a trail of pennies, not breadcrumbs, you could say).
I am not willing to do that, so I will have to make do with the cues I do get plus doing some google-map research before-hand I think.

I think there might be a paper cue-sheet given out on the day but as I've not done one before, I can't be sure.
Cheers

Me again - you've lost a 'z' 

The organiser will send out a copy of the route sheet with other info (carparking etc) in the week before the event.  There is a preliminary version available on the event page here: https://www.aukweb.net/routes/40r.zip  It is worth having a look up front as it appears to be written in code but fortunately it is a code that is easy to crack!  Paper copies may be available at the start but I wouldn't count on it.

[drossall]

There are two ways of setting up a route on most devices.  All of them will allow you to load the basic route.  This appears as a line on the map on the device display that you follow a bit like breadcrumbs in Hansel and Grettel or paper trails in The Railway Children hence the name “Breadcrumbs “.

 Most of them will allow you to also load turn by turn directions in addition to the breadcrumbs and these will then give you additional prompts such as “Turn left into High Street” and usually a countdown distance to the turn.

With an Audax, the point is that you're generally using the organiser's GPX file, so the choice is made by the organiser. Hence, you'll get inconsistent behaviour because of different organisers, for different events, making different choices. You could I suppose try to produce your own, but I've never bothered.

Sign up for Garmin Connect (free), go to Training and Planning - Courses, and import the file by drag and drop. It will sync onto your Garmin and away you go.

Personally I'm happy with just a track to follow. I've occasionally lost concentration and missed a turn, but never gone off route by more than a few hundred metres. The main issue is sneaking back without another rider spotting your error

[citoyen]

I used a 510 for audax for several years. I liked its simplicity and I got on very well with it but it’s not idiotproof.

The “breadcrumb trail” you follow on the screen is simply a join-the-dots picture of all the lat/long points listed in the gpx file. The device has no maps and the track does not relate to actual roads, so it will tell you what general direction to go but it doesn’t know the difference between a turn and a bend in the road.

My preference was for simple gpx files with controls embedded as waypoints. These always worked reliably.  I found the device temperamental if I tried to use large complex files with lots of embedded turn-by-turn instructions.

It pays to do some pre-ride reconnaissance using the route sheet and Google maps. And use the 510 in conjunction with route sheet supplied by the organiser.

[citoyen]

To download the version of the TCX file which includes turn-by-turn instructions, I need to have coughed up and pay the premium (a trail of pennies, not breadcrumbs, you could say).

Would this be a file to download from RideWithGPS? I could be wrong but I don’t think the 510 is compatible with those files - ie it won’t display the turn instructions.

So you’re definitely best off saving your pennies.

[Lightning Phil]

To download the version of the TCX file which includes turn-by-turn instructions, I need to have coughed up and pay the premium (a trail of pennies, not breadcrumbs, you could say).

Would this be a file to download from RideWithGPS? I could be wrong but I don’t think the 510 is compatible with those files - ie it won’t display the turn instructions.

So you’re definitely best off saving your pennies.

If they are course points then it should.  My first Garmin was the Edge 305 around 2004.  That dealt with and showed and alerted course points and indeed TCX and CRS (subset of TCX) date from around then and first editions of training centre.   The problem is if there are hundreds of the buggers, in which case the 510 may choke.  Back when you added course points by clicking on the map in Training Centre, you generally only added half a dozen or so to mark water points, pubs etc.  Distance to nearest course point  worked then as well, where as now it just tells you distance to next turn instruction.

[De Sisti]

I think there might be a paper cue-sheet given out on the day .....

Just in case it rains on the day, you may need something to keep the route sheet dry*.


*I once saw a guy on his first 200k (about 2010) with a soggy route sheet at the
half-way stage of the ride after some light rainfall. Not sure how he got on to the finish.

[Lightning Phil]

I think there might be a paper cue-sheet given out on the day but as I've not done one before, I can't be sure.
Cheers

You’ll normally get it in the pre event email, then print it yourself or save on your phone as backup. Very few organisers will do mass advance printing of route sheets these days.

[Von Broad]

instructions are vague like "Go northeast".

That's the only instruction you really need for most audaxes - after a few hours [or 24hrs if it's a 600], just turn round and head southwest to get home.

Sarcasm aside, I've not used the 510, only the Etrex Vista since 2007, and like drossall am perfectly happy to follow a benign track [and yes.....until you forget to look at your unit!].

One thing I would emphasize, is the whole self-reliance thing with audax - particularly when you start to get into longer distances. I'm always amazed when I see riders still using a route sheet. But a laminated route sheet with lots of preparation before you set off [ie being aware of towns, shops etc] is still probably a pretty reliable and bomb-proof way to navigate.
Having said that, I don't always carry a routesheet as backup......and I should, but always carry a spare GPS unit loaded with a duplicate route.
I'd really encourage developing the habit of carrying a routesheet as back up.
Hope the ride goes well.

[arabella]

I 've only ever used a route sheet. I have been known to rearrange to be more compact/have a nice empty line to fold into quarters of A4 (approx).
Just follow the instructions slavishly.
The bag that comes with the brevet card works well to keep the route sheet dry. (though it is prudent to avoid water based ink).
I take a map (the regional ones work OK) as fall back.
Weak point, as with gadget you are proposing to use, is if you lose your way in a built up area.

[drossall]

My normal set-up is a Garmin and a map trap, with the route sheet, side by side on the bars. But I agree, use of route sheets is falling.

I use the route sheet mainly for context, looking ahead to see what's coming in the next hour or so (a control, hopefully!)

[TOBY]

I'm doing my first Audax next month "Rutland and Beyond" which is 100 km.
I bought a second-hand Garmin Edge510 for a tenner, seems to work but not had much time to explore it yet.
Sometimes it gives me turn-by-turn instructions, which is great. Other times, instructions are vague like "Go northeast".

Key points from here: GARMIN EDGE 510 (edit: link now fixed thanks drossall for picking that up)

Map a route using our bike route planner and then export a GPX Track for breadcrumb navigation on the Edge 510, or a TCX Course file to get basic turn guidance using the cuesheet generated when you planned the route.

The Edge 510 can use a GPX Track, TCX, or FIT Course.  A TCX Course has the advantage of embedding your planned route’s cuesheet. So, alongside Garmin’s dedicated navigation, you get beeps and text for each pre-planned cue entry in the cuesheet.

Note: Please practice navigating a route with something simple around your neighborhood, and don’t try this right before a ride with friends or a big event!

[drossall]

Fixed that link - I believe that the vital colon was missing in the protocol https://

[FifeingEejit]

I think there might be a paper cue-sheet given out on the day .....

Just in case it rains on the day, you may need something to keep the route sheet dry*.


*I once saw a guy on his first 200k (about 2010) with a soggy route sheet at the
half-way stage of the ride after some light rainfall. Not sure how he got on to the finish.

I had a rider get lost in Dundee trying to follow a soggy route sheet, considering the instruction he was trying to follow could be summarised as "cross the river by the bridge" I'm not sure why he started climbing back up the hill Dundee is built on.

dafter shit has probably been done TBF.
at least he could see the bridge he wanted to cross from that hill.



Sent from my IV2201 using Tapatalk

[citoyen]

If they are course points then it should.

Indeed. I’m not sure they were course points though. Possible I was exporting the wrong format or something. It’s a while ago, I can’t remember the details.

The problem is if there are hundreds of the buggers, in which case the 510 may choke. 

That was very much a problem with the 510.

I found that as long as you understood its capabilities and limitations, it was an excellent device. Unfortunately, the dog got hold of mine and destroyed it, otherwise I might still be using it now.