Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Topic started by: Mrs Pingu on 19 September, 2017, 08:44:02 pm
-
This is a public service announcement that Chain Reaction have Schwalbe Winter spiked tyres reduced to 20 squid a pop just now, which I thought was very reasonable :thumbsup:
-
Certainly is. That's less than wholesale - excluding VAT.
-
700x30c out of stock till 27 sept
-
Planet X have the Schwalbe Snow Stud at £15 a go (with 20% off until 24th)
700x38, knobbly with 2 rows of studs.
I've also seem the Ice Spiker there are around £20 - £25 in the past
-
altough I am considering Schwalbe CX pro 700x 30 , for winter ruff stuff £13.95 ea, free p+p
https://www.google.co.uk/aclk?sa=l&ai=DChcSEwi6uMPVtLTWAhUelLIKHYUWArwYABAGGgJscg&sig=AOD64_1zBmj57fbBMT4an1Y7yvdbYYY6WA&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwityL3VtLTWAhUSblAKHUyRA3kQ9aACCDw&adurl=
-
Good post Mrs P :thumbsup:
Planet X have the Schwalbe Snow Stud at £15 a go (with 20% off until 24th)
700x38, knobbly with 2 rows of studs.
Having bought some "Snow Studs" (round about the same time we last had proper snow in OXfordshire ::-) - they've probably perished by now ),
I'd say they will be far inferior on hard icy stuff than the regular winters.
But I have little ice experience - I'm just going by visual inspection. I haven't fallen off with them, but I've been a total woose on the ice, and we're only talking a few metres testing :-\
-
Since the functional mechanism of studded tyres seems to be to slow the bike down and therefore ward off freezing weather[1] that might justify studs, I'm not sure the exact number of studs really makes much difference.
[1] See also: Rainlegs.
-
Just curious, but are bicycle 'winter tyres' just ordinary tyres, but made heavier duty and/otr built to take studs; or are they like car winter tyres i.e. made from a softer compound grippier rubber and with a tread designed to grip the white stuff?
-
Definitely a softer compound (that's presumably what makes them so slow). Knobbliness for loose snow varies between models, eg. Ice Spiker (proper MTB-style tread) vs Marathon Winter (a more typical touring tyre pattern, if slightly deeper).
Typical UK conditions are random patches of sheet ice or re-frozen slush, so a deep knobbly tread isn't that important unless you're going off-road.
-
Schwalbe Marathon Winter tyres have metal studs:-
(http://chainreactioncycles.scene7.com/is/image/ChainReactionCycles/prod118113_IMGSET?wid=500&hei=505)
They are amazingly grippy in slippy/icy conditions.
I remember merrily cycling up a hill near the end of my commute and overtaking a police car that was wheel-spinning in the slush (on a ~5% hill) - they stopped me to ask how the hell I was managing to cycle in those conditions. I'd think nothing of taking icy corners one handed (whilst moving my arm back to the bars after signalling). I've seen c-beams glitter over...*ahem*
They are a bit unnerving at first as they tend to slip until you are at about 5 degrees from vertical but then the studs bite and it doesn't slip any further.
They're not so great on unpacked deep snow, you need a much fatter and knobbly tyre to deal with that effectively, but they're no worse than non-studded tyres on that same surface.
I have a spare set of cheap wheels for my commuter/hackbike with studded tyres on - makes swapping over much less of a faff.
-
And what are they like in just ordinary, but cold conditions? Are they pure snow & ice tyres aor can you ride them on tarmac as well?
-
They're harder work, and they make a noise like a gravel driveway. You don't want to do too much hard braking on tarmac, as it'll pull studs out, but they grip well enough for normal riding.
-
Ta. Sounds like a good idea for winter trail riding (that is if we actually get a winter), err this winter.
Too many winters!
-
If you keep the pressures up then the majority of the time the studs don't make much contact with the ground as there are none of them along the centre ridge of the tyre. You get a bit of whirring and it's a bit noisier when you turn but otherwise fine.
I only really needed them for the first 1km of my commute as that was untreated/unplowed roads covered in snow/slush/ice. The rest (10km) were mostly London red routes so they were kept treated and clear, but there was always a chance of (re)frozen slush or black ice on shady corners.
When it gets properly icy/snowy then you can let the tyre pressures down a bit and you get more of the studs on the road in normal riding. I did this when I cycled out through Richmond Park which was closed to motor vehicles due to the snow (they couldn't get up any of the hills).
-
I remember merrily cycling up a hill near the end of my commute and overtaking a police car that was wheel-spinning in the slush (on a ~5% hill) - they stopped me to ask how the hell I was managing to cycle in those conditions. I'd think nothing of taking icy corners one handed (whilst moving my arm back to the bars after signalling). I've seen c-beams glitter over...*ahem*
(my bold)
Haha - I've had similar. I passed a postman tentatively doing his van-based rounds on this ride:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7010/6834651007_f00da0d744_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/bpXnCt)
and his exact words were: "How the hell are you still upright?" ;D
-
If you keep the pressures up then the majority of the time the studs don't make much contact with the ground as there are none of them along the centre ridge of the tyre. You get a bit of whirring and it's a bit noisier when you turn but otherwise fine.
Marathon Winters have studs on the centreline, I think you are talking about the snow studs
I rode mine a few times to leeds - they are very heavy, take a while to get up to speed. I believe that M W's are based on Marathon XR. The puncture resistance isn't huge - they don't have the green layer.
Grip on hard ice is brill.
-
Marathon Winters have studs on the centreline, I think you are talking about the snow studs
Well my Schwalbe Marathon Winter are like the one I posted a picture of earlier, with the studs 0.5cm either side of the centre line.
-
My Ice Spikers are rather scary looking, I think. (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/schwalbe-ice-spiker-pro-evo-liteskin-650b-folding-mtb-tyre/)
-
I put my Schwalbe Winters on when it starts getting frosty (usually October) and don't take them off until I'm convinced its not going to be icy or snow again. Usually April. Sure, for most of that time they never see more than black ice but its worth it to not fall off.
I only have a 19km round trip commute and I need the extra exercise in winter anyway....
-
Marathon Winters have studs on the centreline, I think you are talking about the snow studs
Well my Schwalbe Marathon Winter are like the one I posted a picture of earlier, with the studs 0.5cm either side of the centre line.
The picture posted upthread is a Schwalbe Winter, which has the studs basically along the centre part of the tyre. The Schwalbe Marathon Winter has studs along the centre and on the outside edges. Snow Studs just have the studs on the outer edge. All very confusing.
I use Conti Top Contact II winter tyres (http://conti-tyres.co.uk/commuting-touring/top-contact-ii-winter). No studs, but a softer compound and a tread with lots of edges which grip surprisingly well on ice and snow while remaining relatively free rolling.
-
Good post Mrs P :thumbsup:
Planet X have the Schwalbe Snow Stud at £15 a go (with 20% off until 24th)
700x38, knobbly with 2 rows of studs.
Having bought some "Snow Studs" (round about the same time we last had proper snow in OXfordshire ::-) - they've probably perished by now ),
I'd say they will be far inferior on hard icy stuff than the regular winters.
But I have little ice experience - I'm just going by visual inspection. I haven't fallen off with them, but I've been a total woose on the ice, and we're only talking a few metres testing :-\
I used snow studs in 2010-11 which up here was the last very icy winter. My commute included weeks of riding over a long section of solid ice*. They're fine as long as you keep the pressure down. However they feel like you're trying to push tractor tyres. The Schwalbe Winters I now have are a lot better rolling, though I wouldn't expect them to cope with snow as well as the snow studs.
*To prove how slippery that was, I was stupid enough to try stopping and answering my phone on there one day, and ended up in the roadside ditch :-[
-
I bought a set of Marathon Winters several years ago, and they worked extremely well on the rare icy conditions I got to try them on (including a couple of hundred metres of sheet ice).
However, they were a pain to ride on when it wasn't icy, so on the basis that I have a mountain bike, I bought a set of heavily discounted Ice Spikers to fit to that, so that in the absence of a prolonged freeze I could grab the best bike for the job on a day by day basis without faffing around swapping tyres.
The Ice Spikers are even slower rolling than the Marathon Winters, but the greater knobbliness means they're better on soft stuff (as last winter was so mild I've only been able to test them on mud, rather than actual snow). I anticipate similar performance on solid ice, and I expect that being wider should make them handle better on re-frozen slush.
For completeness, I've also tried a Marathon Winter on the back of an ICE trike. This gives you enough traction to get moving on ice, and normal tyres on the front wheels still give enough grip for steering purposes. Rear-wheel braking is underwhelming and front-wheel braking is non-existent, but it's only the confidence of not being able to fall off that enables you to discover that. 20" wheels on refrozen rutted slush are incredibly hard work, even if you have traction.
I dismounted to take this photo (the trodden slush had frozen solid overnight), and promptly fell on my arse; my boots had no grip at all:
(http://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/ice_on_ice/IMG_20130326_163041.sized.jpg)
That's the limit of what I'd consider sensible on a bicycle with Marathon Winters, not so much because it's solid ice, but because it's so lumpy. The equivalent in dried mud wouldn't be much fun without MTB tyres, either.
-
I'd agree with all the stuff about riding on sheet ice and the huge weight of the tyres
Couple of things no one has mentioned
I bought a pair of Marathon Winters 7 years ago and they are still going strong. The reason is that they only get used for a few months a year and they are durable "Schwalbe Marathon" kind of tyres
I have got the Schwalbe replacement metal studs kit and put new studs in last year for the ones that have fallen out
Another thing worth remembering: they only make these tyres in large sizes ( mine are 35mm ) so you will need a cross bike, gravel bike, maybe a tourer to use them. They won't work on a racey bike
-
Marathon Winters have studs on the centreline, I think you are talking about the snow studs
Well my Schwalbe Marathon Winter are like the one I posted a picture of earlier, with the studs 0.5cm either side of the centre line.
The picture posted upthread is a Schwalbe Winter, which has the studs basically along the centre part of the tyre. The Schwalbe Marathon Winter has studs along the centre and on the outside edges. Snow Studs just have the studs on the outer edge. All very confusing.
I was going by what I see on the Schwalbe page: https://www.schwalbe.com/en/spikes.html although this may not be up to date or show previous versions of the tyres that had different stud arrangements.
For me, neither of those (Winter or Marathon Winter) have studs on the centre line.
(I understand you may have a different interpretation of the term "centre line" to me but, for me, both the Winter and Marathon Winter pictured on that link there are no studs overlapping the infinitely thin line that runs down the centre of the tyre. Put it another way, there are no studs on the diamond shaped knobbles that form a strip down the middle of the tyre. The Ice Spiker Pro tyre does have some studs on the centre line.)
-
For me, neither of those (Winter or Marathon Winter) have studs on the centre line.
Agreed, but they do bite if you reduce the tyre pressure somewhat, which also gets you extra studs making contact in the forwards/backwards direction.
The studs aren't all that spiky, and they will slip if there are only a couple on the ice, as I found back in 2010 when riding at dry weather pressures.
The extra rows of studs on the Marathon Winter vs the Winter helps avoid tramlining in icy ruts.
In recent winters, I've been using the Conti Top Contact Winter II, as being much better than the Marathon Winter on dry road, whilst still giving a reasonable amount of anti-skid.
-
In recent winters, I've been using the Conti Top Contact Winter II, as being much better than the Marathon Winter on dry road, whilst still giving a reasonable amount of anti-skid.
Interesting, the manufacturers claim great things for non-stud winter tyres on cars at least. Have you tried those on black ice to see how much they can do?
-
I mostly exhibit a healthy amount of caution when it's icy, despite the tyres, but I did try out riding straight up a steepish lane that had ice all over it. The rear tyre span out when the gradient got up to something like 8%, at which point controlling the feet well enough to actually get off the bike was pretty difficult.
-
I was going by what I see on the Schwalbe page: https://www.schwalbe.com/en/spikes.html although this may not be up to date or show previous versions of the tyres that had different stud arrangements.
For me, neither of those (Winter or Marathon Winter) have studs on the centre line.
Agreed - but I didn't say the tyres had studs on the centre line - just that they had studs on the centre part of the tread, and that the Marathon Winters additionally have studs on the outside of the tyre making them more versatile than the plain Winters :) And on Schwalbe Snow Studs, the studs are only at the outside edge, so pressure needs to be dropped considerable for them to bite.
Peter White (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.php) has a pretty good explanation of what configuration of studs work best in different conditions.
-
"Snow Studs" down to £15 at Planet X (https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TYSCSNST/schwalbe-snow-stud-wired-tyre)
-
I have studded tyres for the Brompton (requires some protection on the frame to stop scratching). They were very useful last winter. I managed to do rides I wouldn't have been able to other wise. You notice them slip ever so slightly until a stud digs in and than away you go. Such a revelation after a few ice related falls in the past.
The issue with having grip on the bike right upto the point where you want to put your foot down can be mitigated with a set of microspikes (http://amzn.to/2xXBA3j). I've been using a pair of these (they live in my pack during the winter) for a couple of winters and they really help especially as footpaths are often just sheets of ice it seems...
J
-
I have used the marathon winters the last couple times it snowed, but mostly they work by magic to keep snow away. I tend to find that if I come across anything like what Kim has posted I’ll be walking as I don’t have the skillz for staying upright on that.