Author Topic: Training for long distance 400K+  (Read 4601 times)

Training for long distance 400K+
« on: 06 December, 2016, 09:55:27 pm »
Straight up, I'm too heavy at 78Kg@170cm so I know I need to work on that but I'm really not sure on how to train for longer events.

At the moment I'm doing about 300K a week with every other weekend being a 200K ride aiming for routes with AAA points.

It's too dark to do 300s (well it's not but I'm soft) at the moment but that will improve

I have Mille Pennines booked in along with London - Wales - London at the end of April (plus the Dean)

What should I be doing to really get myself ready for long distance riding.

Current schedule is

2 or 3 times a week - 22K/each way commute (flat)
Every other week 200K ride
Every week club run 80-120K medium group 28kph avg.

 
Should I be looking at hill repeats, intervals?

Re: Training for long distance 400K+
« Reply #1 on: 07 December, 2016, 07:49:34 am »
You sound pretty well prepared to be honest. What are your weaknesses?  You could try the 200k and the club run on the same weekend which would be essentially the 400k.

Endurance tends to be just stepping up the distance on a steady basis. So plan a 300 as early as possible and then the 400 a few weeks later.

Re: Training for long distance 400K+
« Reply #2 on: 07 December, 2016, 08:08:00 am »
Weight/height comparisons are useless.

For long distance cyclists, pinching waist to determine body fat doesn't really mean a lot either - you can be heavy around the middle and very fit.

A lot of people have struggled with stepping up the distance because of comfort issues; commonly neck or back problems. Doing planks or pilates/yoga is usually recommended. Take care of your hands.

When I looked at doing an Arrow, fboab suggested I do a type of interval training that involved going hard, nearly flat out for a period, I think it was about a minute, then 30s eased off to normal cruise, then a minute again. Next session increasing the time etc until I was going really hard for 10min or so and only giving myself a couple of minutes recovery. It really improved the average speed I could sustain.

<i>Marmite slave</i>

Chris S

Re: Training for long distance 400K+
« Reply #3 on: 07 December, 2016, 11:14:03 am »
2 or 3 times a week - 22K/each way commute (flat)
Every other week 200K ride
Every week club run 80-120K medium group 28kph avg.

Two 200s a month PLUS fast club runs? Okaaaay... well, these alone are more than adequate to see you toward to the front half of most audax fields - if you end up a full value rider, it won't be down to lack of build-up!

Concentrate on other things such as Control Discipline; being fast on the road is wasted effort if you're dicking about playing the "Empty and refill the bag" game at every cafe. Remember to take your bottle(s) in for filling when you go, if possible get them filled by someone else whilst you eat; that kind of thing.

Once you get into overnight riding, work out what works for you. Ride with others if it makes you faster, learn if you need sleep or not. Really - the only way to find out what works is to JFDI and see; so do more than one 400/600 if you can, so there are fewer surprises on the 1000.

Work out what food works for you. Eating during the night of a 400, or next day on a 600 can be a challenge for some - more than once I've ended up unable to eat with 150km still to go, and it's unpleasant. I've worked out a solution that works for me, but yours will vary.

Hills are about power:weight. You can be heavyset and still be a decent climber if you're powerful, but remember - that power needs to be fed, and if you're having eating problems, you'll suffer in the hills if you're more anaerobic when climbing. The advantage that lighter riders have is that climbing has less impact, and requires less fuel.

Re: Training for long distance 400K+
« Reply #4 on: 07 December, 2016, 12:28:02 pm »
Perseverance, mental toughness, the will to succeed.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Training for long distance 400K+
« Reply #5 on: 07 December, 2016, 12:37:22 pm »
Perseverance, mental toughness, the will to succeed.

This explains my DNF rate. I'm physically capable of getting round 300s, 400s, 600s but sometimes I guess I just don't want it enough...

Anyone who admits to being too soft for a 300 because it's dark is going to have trouble on a 400, regardless of their physical fitness.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Training for long distance 400K+
« Reply #6 on: 07 December, 2016, 12:58:40 pm »
In the words of Gary Gilmore as plagiarised by Nike, just do it.  I never trained as hard as that for any of my rides.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

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Re: Training for long distance 400K+
« Reply #7 on: 08 December, 2016, 07:00:59 am »
With your schedule you have the already have the legs to do anything so there are only two things you need to train,  your head and your stomach.

Practice night riding.  Do a 100km ride starting at 8pm, or start a 200km at 3am. 

Build up your distance - with a 300km before London Wales London and then a 600 with hills such as the Kernow and SW (which would be a good test for the Mille Pennines) after London Wales London.

Work out what foods you can eat on the second day - and it might be worthwhile doing back to back 200s on a weekend if you can't schedule a longer ride, just to see how your body / metabolism works  on the second day.
Eddington Numbers 130 (imperial), 182 (metric) 574 (furlongs)  114 (nautical miles)

Karla

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Re: Training for long distance 400K+
« Reply #8 on: 08 December, 2016, 09:44:55 am »
It sounds like you're doing ample distance.  A bit of speed work wouldn't go amiss, and should also help you shift some of the pounds.  Core strength and stability work like mrcharly suggested would be a good idea too - I injured myself when I first started riding 600s due to poor position.  Stretches, squats, pilates etc are stuff that you can do in the winter too.

Re: Training for long distance 400K+
« Reply #9 on: 10 January, 2017, 03:18:55 am »
Smart trainer and subscription to TrainerRoad purchased and resulted in the discovery that my FTP comes out as a reasonable 3 W/Kg.

First audax of 2017 (Poor Student) completed but showed where my faults were.

1. I'd definitely lost fitness over December where I wasn't riding as much.
2. I just didn't have the endurance to hold onto the faster groups when we hit the hills, if I'd dug deep to hold on I'd have regretted it later. This shows that some proper structured interval training is needed.
3. While I didn't think I spent a lot of time faffing at controls comparing elapsed time to moving time showed I spent 1h15m stopped although 20m of that was waiting for someone to slowly fix a puncture.
4. My luggage solution was wrong and I need to get a rack bag so that stuff is quickly accessible

On the plus side there were things that went well.

1. I paced strictly on heart rate and managed to get 48% of the ride in Z4 and the rest in Z3 with only a few blips into Z2 or Z5. This ended up with me feeling fresh enough to pick up the pace for the final 20K.
2. My feet were warm for the entire ride
3. Nutrition wise I think I've got it right. Two 650ml bottles of energy drink every 60K kept me topped up and were supplemented by a sausage roll at controls and breakfast bars. Two gels used for topping up after a few harder sections.


simonp

Re: Training for long distance 400K+
« Reply #10 on: 10 January, 2017, 12:58:08 pm »
Which TR plans are you intending to follow?

I'm currently in Sweet Spot Base II high volume and will probably repeat this 6-week block again before spending 8 weeks in build, probably sustained power build, and then 8 weeks in the century plan.

This pretty much takes me up to LEL.

Re: Training for long distance 400K+
« Reply #11 on: 10 January, 2017, 04:41:06 pm »
I think I'm in a similar mind to you.

Sweet Sport Base High Volume 1 at the moment.

I was planning on using General Build for the build phase as I want to do some of the fast rides with the club racers and it takes me up to London Wales London

Then I was thinking climbing road race to get me ready for Mille Pennines.

vorsprung

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Re: Training for long distance 400K+
« Reply #12 on: 10 January, 2017, 08:44:21 pm »
First audax of 2017 (Poor Student) completed ..

excellent, you are the winner
most people don't do any 200km rides in the middle of winter

Re: Training for long distance 400K+
« Reply #13 on: 10 January, 2017, 08:53:49 pm »
most people don't do any 200km rides in the middle of winter

I thought I'd have a go at RRTY as I'm six months into it and may as well keep going.