Author Topic: New GPS  (Read 1398 times)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
New GPS
« on: September 22, 2017, 02:37:04 pm »

I'm thinking that I may treat myself to a new gps for christmas. I currently have a Garmin Etrex 10 that is mounted on the handlebars and works as basic follow the line on the map (gpx route), as well as speedometer. I've had it for years and it's done everything I've wanted so far.

But for my new bike now I'm ranging further and faster I'm wondering if there is sense in getting myself something more advanced. Following riders on big rides (LEL, Highland Trail 550, TCR, etc...) it seems that a common issue seems to be "Argh my garmin just sneezed and now I'm screwed" or "at a cafe trying to reload maps into my garmin". This has left me twitchy about upgrading to anything more complex.

So I'm wondering what my options are for something reliable that can work as a speedo, and give me routing (perhaps more advanced than my current upload a gpx to follow on the screen). It would be nice it there was support for more than 256 points on a gpx route too... Long battery life. All the usual requirements.

I'm also wondering what my options would include if I was to want to use it as a head unit for a power meter or HRM in the future?

What sort of devices should I be looking at?

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: New GPS
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2017, 03:05:35 pm »
I have the Garmin touring, yes I know all about the complaints from others, but I've had mine for  two years and it works perfectly straight out of the box use it for short tours and geocaching, my only complaint is the screen is a wee bit small, but the price was right.

Re: New GPS
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2017, 03:15:19 pm »
I'm still able to get by with a Garmin 820, with an 800 as a backup. But I would not recommend Garmin, and I will be swapping for an alternative manufacturer once I am confident there is a proven viable alternative.

An interesting piece of news today on the new Giant device ... http://road.cc/content/tech-news/229629-giant-neostrack-gps-computer-first-look. A 33 hour battery is magical. You don't get the base maps that you get on most devices, but you do get navigation capability. I've not yet seen what that looks like in practice (although one screenshot does appear to show a split screen with route at the top and some data fields underneath, which would be perfect for audax riding when looking out for an info control). This might be a better option than some of the new start-ups as it is based on existing technology, just evolved with Giant and their world tour teams.

dim

Re: New GPS
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2017, 08:04:44 pm »
Garmin Edge 1000 .... mine works flawlessly (needs to be set up properly) and battery lasts just over 6hrs with the cadence, heart rate monitor, speed sensor, and Garmin Radar unit. I also have the Garmin Virb Ultra 30 video camera connected but I'm not sure if that uses some of the battery of the Edge 1000

however, with a powerbank in a top tube pack such as an Apidura, you can connect the powerbank directly to the Garmin Edge 1000.

Garmin have released the new Edge 1030 so there will be bargains on the Edge 1000 especially 2nd hand on ebay

I also have one of these (but have not used it yet):


fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: New GPS
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2017, 08:49:33 pm »
Etrex 30x is the obvious upgrade. I think its (nearly) as reliable as the Etrex 10. And similar battery life.
It would give you maps, and options for autorouting etc.
It will work with a heart rate monitor or cadence sensor, but not a power meter.

Re: New GPS
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2017, 01:11:09 am »
Also consider a Wahoo. Knocks socks off Garmin. I have an Elemnt.

Aushiker

  • Cyclist, bushwalker, phottographer (amaturer)
    • Aushiker: Bicycling and Hiking in Western Australia
Re: New GPS
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2017, 03:34:43 am »
Also consider a Wahoo. Knocks socks off Garmin. I have an Elemnt.

Another vote for the Wahoo Elemnt or Elemnt Bolt if you prefer a smaller screen. DCRainmaker has an current review of the Bolt which has the same internals (software) as the larger sized Elemnt. Worth a read in my view.

From my own personal experience I have used a Garmin Oregon 600 bikepacking (and bushwalking) and I use a Garmin Edge 810 on the bike; soon to be replaced with a Wahoo Elemnt.  I am now of the view that I prefer a tool for the job, i.e., a bike computer on the bike and hiking GPS for bushwalking.  Using the Garmin Oregon for a week's bikepacking convinced me to go back to using the Edge/Wahoo Elemnt.  Being bike specific it seems to work better with the auto pause feature, the metrics which I enjoy, the ability to set up the screens to suit my riding and of course the routing with notifications. 

This is for me, I appreciate others find using an Extrex works fine so you need to decide what works for you or course.

I have a 12 day basically off road bikepack coming in a couple of months; the Elemnt is coming with me, the Oregon will be at home or sold.

StuAff

  • Folding not boring
Re: New GPS
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2017, 01:46:14 pm »
Bit of a wildcard- as the device, though not the company, is an unknown quantity so far- Hammerhead Karoo which I've just ordered. They're supposed to start shipping next month, though demand means I'll be getting mine some time in the spring, hopefully ($299 plus taxes, £222 all in at current rates, instead of $499 when they're on general sale, sweetens the pill rather a lot). Even at full price, this stacks up very well indeed on paper against the Garmin Edge 1030 (£500!!!), and advance price spanks even the cheaper Edge models. 3.5" touchscreen, which appears from video reviews of prototypes by DCRainmaker and BikeRadar to be much better than the competition, plus full set of physical buttons. Software based on Android 6.0, a battery that's 50% bigger than an Edge 1030 (Garmin claim 20 hour max life, Hammerhead say 10-15 in normal use, plus endurance modes in development…hmmm...one's more likely than the other), all the bells and whistles Garmin does but Hammerhead appear to be trying to do beta testing before selling the thing. They put back production to improve the antenna, the extensive blog posts show a lot of work and attention to detail.....fingers crossed!!
https://youtu.be/030_sh-_36A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG178z8mNLM

dim

Re: New GPS
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2017, 06:03:23 pm »
Bit of a wildcard- as the device, though not the company, is an unknown quantity so far- Hammerhead Karoo which I've just ordered. They're supposed to start shipping next month, though demand means I'll be getting mine some time in the spring, hopefully ($299 plus taxes, £222 all in at current rates, instead of $499 when they're on general sale, sweetens the pill rather a lot). Even at full price, this stacks up very well indeed on paper against the Garmin Edge 1030 (£500!!!), and advance price spanks even the cheaper Edge models. 3.5" touchscreen, which appears from video reviews of prototypes by DCRainmaker and BikeRadar to be much better than the competition, plus full set of physical buttons. Software based on Android 6.0, a battery that's 50% bigger than an Edge 1030 (Garmin claim 20 hour max life, Hammerhead say 10-15 in normal use, plus endurance modes in development…hmmm...one's more likely than the other), all the bells and whistles Garmin does but Hammerhead appear to be trying to do beta testing before selling the thing. They put back production to improve the antenna, the extensive blog posts show a lot of work and attention to detail.....fingers crossed!!
https://youtu.be/030_sh-_36A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG178z8mNLM

looks like a very good unit and I have read DC Rainmakers review.

however, depends on what extras you want ... for instance, if you want to use the Garmin Varia Radar unit, you will have to buy the radar unit with the additional gadget that dispays the radar info .... on the Edge units (such as the Edge 1000), it links directly to the unit and no need to purchse the addition monitor screen and clutter your handlebar (BTW, the Garmin Varia radar unit has been the best buy for me this year..... it is like having an extra pair of eyes on the back of your head)

in the linked video, you see the cyclist riding at speed and swiping the Karoo screen .... thats looking for tarburn and sort of reminds me of the teenagers in my area who ride their bikes with their hands in their pockets (an accident waiting to happen)

on the Edge 1000, I have a remote switch that at the press of a button, I can switch screens. But no need to unless I want to see what the road ahead looks like as far as hills/inclination .... one press, and it's done .... I'd hate to try swiping a screen in the wet and travelling at 30km/hr on a bumpy road

My screen is setup with my main screen showing my speed, ave speed, heartrate, distance travelled, cadence, average cadence and distance to next turn. When I am nearing a turn, my unit beeps and automatically switches screen to the map and shows me where to turn, how far the turn is .... Once I've turned, it automatically switches back to the main screen

The Garmin edge 1000 is a very good unit, but it needs to be set up properly ... as for navigation, I can also punch in an address etc and it will take me there (like a car satnav)... there are features that I have not even used yet (virtual partner, live tracking, auto route maker etc)

If I were to buy another bike computer, I would get the Edge 1000 (again), or if I were flush with cash, I'd get the new Edge 1030)

StuAff

  • Folding not boring
Re: New GPS
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2017, 06:44:57 pm »
There are two videos in my earlier post. One from DC, one from BikeRadar.  Those (and DC's text review) are previews of pre-production units. No-one's reviewed it yet as the final version is not on sale. Pretty sure Ben Delaney knew what he was doing there....also pretty sure it'll do the automatic switching between data and map fields when you have a turn, just like every other mapping cycle GPS in the past decade or so. The Karoo also has a full set of physical buttons, unlike the Edge 820/1000/1030s.

As for Garmin I think a lot of people are fed up beta testing products that should have been, er, beta tested…relying on software updates post-purchase to (hopefully) fix issues is not good enough. Additional battery pack for the 1030 is clever enough, yes, neat, tidy, fully waterproofed (hopefully)…but £120!!! If they'd made the unit a fraction taller they could have fitted a bigger battery inside the thing anyway.That Garmin UK are generally helpful and efficient for customer care doesn't excuse manufacturing & design issues.

dim

Re: New GPS
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2017, 08:23:01 pm »
There are two videos in my earlier post. One from DC, one from BikeRadar.  Those (and DC's text review) are previews of pre-production units. No-one's reviewed it yet as the final version is not on sale. Pretty sure Ben Delaney knew what he was doing there....also pretty sure it'll do the automatic switching between data and map fields when you have a turn, just like every other mapping cycle GPS in the past decade or so. The Karoo also has a full set of physical buttons, unlike the Edge 820/1000/1030s.

As for Garmin I think a lot of people are fed up beta testing products that should have been, er, beta tested…relying on software updates post-purchase to (hopefully) fix issues is not good enough. Additional battery pack for the 1030 is clever enough, yes, neat, tidy, fully waterproofed (hopefully)…but £120!!! If they'd made the unit a fraction taller they could have fitted a bigger battery inside the thing anyway.That Garmin UK are generally helpful and efficient for customer care doesn't excuse manufacturing & design issues.

the problem is that many people don't know how to set up the Edge 1000 correctly .... it took me a while to get it working properly. The initial software had bugs, but you need to keep on checking the Garmin forum and never download a new version of software if your unit is working correctly, or if other's are having problems with the new release ...

The Karoo sounds like a really good package, but I'd still get a Garmin though, as it does what I want it to do (plus a whole lot more) and mine works flawlessy. Battery life is not an issue as I have a large RavPower 26800mAh battery pack.... aswell as a lipstick sized battery pack for day rides

this site helped me alot with setting it up and understanding how it works (read the comments section aswell):
http://www.forgot.co.uk/garmin-edge-navigation/garmin-edge-1000/

StuAff

  • Folding not boring
Re: New GPS
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2017, 09:01:10 pm »
There are two videos in my earlier post. One from DC, one from BikeRadar.  Those (and DC's text review) are previews of pre-production units. No-one's reviewed it yet as the final version is not on sale. Pretty sure Ben Delaney knew what he was doing there....also pretty sure it'll do the automatic switching between data and map fields when you have a turn, just like every other mapping cycle GPS in the past decade or so. The Karoo also has a full set of physical buttons, unlike the Edge 820/1000/1030s.

As for Garmin I think a lot of people are fed up beta testing products that should have been, er, beta tested…relying on software updates post-purchase to (hopefully) fix issues is not good enough. Additional battery pack for the 1030 is clever enough, yes, neat, tidy, fully waterproofed (hopefully)…but £120!!! If they'd made the unit a fraction taller they could have fitted a bigger battery inside the thing anyway.That Garmin UK are generally helpful and efficient for customer care doesn't excuse manufacturing & design issues.

the problem is that many people don't know how to set up the Edge 1000 correctly .... it took me a while to get it working properly. The initial software had bugs, but you need to keep on checking the Garmin forum and never download a new version of software if your unit is working correctly, or if other's are having problems with the new release ...

The Karoo sounds like a really good package, but I'd still get a Garmin though, as it does what I want it to do (plus a whole lot more) and mine works flawlessy. Battery life is not an issue as I have a large RavPower 26800mAh battery pack.... aswell as a lipstick sized battery pack for day rides

this site helped me alot with setting it up and understanding how it works (read the comments section aswell):
http://www.forgot.co.uk/garmin-edge-navigation/garmin-edge-1000/
Ah, the Garmin variant of Stockholm syndrome…it's not the device, people don't know how to set it up (well, Garmin's manuals aren't going to help much), use/not use the software update (as applicable), check this blog....been there done that. As have many, many, many others. We shouldn't have to. And flawless? Seriously? The Edge 705 came out in 2008, and despite multiple software revisions- some of which made the bugs worse- they never sorted them out. And as the comments on that Edge 1000 blog (and many other blogs & forums...) make clear, the same issues are still happening for the 'latest and greatest' Garmins. Dropped courses? Check. Spontaneous shutdowns? Check. And on, and on.....eg...
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/05/garmin-edge-820-review-cycling-battery-life-group-tracking-touchscreen-navigation

Aushiker

  • Cyclist, bushwalker, phottographer (amaturer)
    • Aushiker: Bicycling and Hiking in Western Australia
Re: New GPS
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2017, 01:53:49 am »
Ah, the Garmin variant of Stockholm syndrome…it's not the device, people don't know how to set it up (well, Garmin's manuals aren't going to help much), use/not use the software update (as applicable), check this blog....been there done that.

Have to agree with you here. I have had at least four Garmin bike GPS head units and three Garmin hiking GPS units so I reckon I might have a clue as to how to set them up. Of those four bike  units, one was replaced under warranty, one simply died (would no longer lock on to satellites) and in terms of the hiking units one had major problems and despite firmware updates and still does not record tracks accurately (lovely spikes off to places unknown on most rides/walks). At least the hiking units have been reasonably reliable overall.

Add to that, my current day to day unit, an Edge 810 has some odd routing behaviour at times. For example on one ride recently the destination was about 100 metres away, turn left to get there. The map shows this, the unit wants me heading right in a 1 km loop to get back to basically where I was before heading to the destination. Go figure.

For me now that there are decent options I am moving on from Garmin with a Wahoo Elemnt on the way and thanks to your post will take a serious look at the Karoo as well.

I might stay with an Extrex for hiking but I doubt I will go back to a Garmin bike computer, at least not for the seeable future.

Re: New GPS
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2017, 09:11:23 am »
Quixoticgeek: you come across as fussy/demanding and geeky. That sounds like a candidate for the traditional eTrex models, e.g. the 30x. From your 10, you already know roughly how they work and won’t be put off by the complexity and slowness of using them. For auto-routing (car sat-nav style navigation), ignore any free maps and buy Garmin City Navigator maps, which are the only ones that work reliably for this.

I have given up on the Edge models after trying many of them, one for years (800), some for only a short period before discovering intolerable flaws (Touring). They’re all expensive rubbish, and I’ve had enough of rewarding Garmin again and again for making products that flatly don’t work as advertised.

Re: New GPS
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2017, 08:50:50 am »
Been using a mobile phone for the past 4 years. So that's what I'd recommend.

Re: New GPS
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2017, 08:58:44 am »
The more complex the Garmin, the more it is prone to crashing or switching off. The Edge 705 was the last time they made anything utterly dependable.

I've moved to Wahoo. The Bolt. It's a bit smaller than I'd like but the Elemnt is larger. It doesn't do some of the useful things that Garmins can do such as scrolling round a map, but TBT routing is fine and getting a route on to it is easier than with a Garmin. So far, mine has been rocksolid

JonB

  • Granny Ring ... Yes Please!
Re: New GPS
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2017, 05:55:52 pm »
An interesting piece of news today on the new Giant device ... http://road.cc/content/tech-news/229629-giant-neostrack-gps-computer-first-look. A 33 hour battery is magical. You don't get the base maps that you get on most devices, but you do get navigation capability. I've not yet seen what that looks like in practice (although one screenshot does appear to show a split screen with route at the top and some data fields underneath, which would be perfect for audax riding when looking out for an info control). This might be a better option than some of the new start-ups as it is based on existing technology, just evolved with Giant and their world tour teams.
I'm quite intrigued by this, can't see if it has bariometric altimeter, anyone seen any reviews which mention whether it has one?

Re: New GPS
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2017, 06:38:54 pm »
An interesting piece of news today on the new Giant device ... http://road.cc/content/tech-news/229629-giant-neostrack-gps-computer-first-look. A 33 hour battery is magical. You don't get the base maps that you get on most devices, but you do get navigation capability. I've not yet seen what that looks like in practice (although one screenshot does appear to show a split screen with route at the top and some data fields underneath, which would be perfect for audax riding when looking out for an info control). This might be a better option than some of the new start-ups as it is based on existing technology, just evolved with Giant and their world tour teams.
I'm quite intrigued by this, can't see if it has bariometric altimeter, anyone seen any reviews which mention whether it has one?

It has an altimeter. On the Giant website you can view the manual, which provides details on the available functionality ... https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/giant-neostrack-gps-computer

JonB

  • Granny Ring ... Yes Please!
Re: New GPS
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2017, 10:21:16 pm »
It has an altimeter. On the Giant website you can view the manual, which provides details on the available functionality ... https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/giant-neostrack-gps-computer

Good info, thanks :thumbsup:

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: New GPS
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2017, 09:00:32 am »
Quixoticgeek: you come across as fussy/demanding and geeky. That sounds like a candidate for the traditional eTrex models, e.g. the 30x. From your 10, you already know roughly how they work and won’t be put off by the complexity and slowness of using them. For auto-routing (car sat-nav style navigation), ignore any free maps and buy Garmin City Navigator maps, which are the only ones that work reliably for this.

That is an accurate summation of me yes...

Do the city navigator maps cover outside of cities too?

Quote
I have given up on the Edge models after trying many of them, one for years (800), some for only a short period before discovering intolerable flaws (Touring). They’re all expensive rubbish, and I’ve had enough of rewarding Garmin again and again for making products that flatly don’t work as advertised.

Right now I've got it down to 3 choices:

etrex 30, Elemnt and Elemnt Bolt.

The thing making me doubt the Wahoo's is whether I can just do a navigate to way point without it plotting a route. So it just says 10km to wp1 and gives me a line or bearing indicator. This is very useful for finding campsites in the woods...

If the wahoo can do what I want, it just then leaves the question of what screen size to go for...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: New GPS
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2017, 09:50:16 am »
Do the city navigator maps cover outside of cities too?

Yes. Just another daft product name.

Re: New GPS
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2017, 12:17:29 pm »
If the wahoo can do what I want, it just then leaves the question of what screen size to go for...

All the comparative reviews I read before buying gave the Bolt the edge, and after extensive use the smaller screen size hasn't been an issue for me.  Brilliant bit of tech!

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: New GPS
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2017, 12:31:17 pm »
This sums up where Garmin have go to:

You can get ANT+ tyre pressure sensors for a Garmin motorcycle GPS but it can't generate a route from outside my office.

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: New GPS
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2017, 06:11:16 pm »
The Erex 30 works fine with maps from OpenStreetMap. No need to bother with expensive/out of date City Navigator.

Kim

  • An appetite for the epic, but no real stamina
Re: New GPS
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2017, 06:13:54 pm »
The Erex 30 works fine with maps from OpenStreetMap. No need to bother with expensive/out of date City Navigator.

There used to be a massive difference in the quality of routing, but OSM is much better these days.  One advantage of City Navigator is an absence of NCN-style rubbish leading you away from proper roads, but that's not always an advantage.
Watching the TV without subtitles is like riding up a hill without using the gears :)