Author Topic: Wheel Bearings  (Read 1787 times)

Wheel Bearings
« on: 15 February, 2018, 04:30:36 pm »
So my minimal maintenance regime for the hubs has not proved to be successful and I had to admit defeat and take the rear wheel back to my LBS.  Apparently the race was rather firmly fixed to the axle but some percussive violence has managed to persuade it off and the new parts have arrived ready to be rebuilt.  One comment the mechanic did make was that there were not as many bearings in there that there should have been.  Can they really get ground away to nothing/dust?

Hopefully it will be ready for the weekend, all I have to do now is endure the lecture when I go to collect it, and quite possibly for the next few visits as well...

Re: Wheel Bearings
« Reply #1 on: 15 February, 2018, 04:55:46 pm »
what model of hub do you have?

cheers

Re: Wheel Bearings
« Reply #2 on: 15 February, 2018, 05:31:43 pm »
Hey: it breaks and they get paid to fix it.   There are plenty more bike mechanics.

Re: Wheel Bearings
« Reply #3 on: 15 February, 2018, 05:37:24 pm »
PB: don't worry I get on well with the mechanic - it made his day when he realised that he had got some ammunition against me!  The repair will cost me a bit plus some donuts.

Brucey: I am ashamed to say that it is a Chris King R45, and when I say "minimal" "no" maintenance would be nearer the truth.  Over 4 or 5 years, all weather  :facepalm:

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Wheel Bearings
« Reply #4 on: 15 February, 2018, 08:03:11 pm »

Mismatch in number of balls in the hub, vs the number expected vs amount of space for balls seems common. I had a thread about it here:



https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=105549.msg2221679


J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Wheel Bearings
« Reply #5 on: 15 February, 2018, 08:26:49 pm »

Re: Wheel Bearings
« Reply #6 on: 15 February, 2018, 08:39:19 pm »
It seems those hubs have proprietary cartridge bearings.
https://chrisking.com/files/public/content/media/document/4/8/r45_r45disc_manual_12_21_16.pdf
https://chrisking.com/bearing-service

yes, they do.  I have seen such hubs scrapped when they have been that badly neglected; it isn't unusual for the insides to corrode/gum up so badly that they cannot be disassembled without extensive collateral damage.

IMHO it wouldn't be such a bad thing if hubs like that had an oil port on them, to which a few drops could be added on a regular basis (or SFG added once a year or so).  Such an approach would keep the seal lips wetted, keep the water out better, and make the bearings last a lot longer.

 The 'penalty' for such an approach would probably be a slight weep of lube past the seals.  Why manufacturers keep using #2 viscosity greases (which are meant for similar bearings doing 5000 to 10000 rpm, which get warm in use...) in bicycle parts is beyond me.

cheers

Re: Wheel Bearings
« Reply #7 on: 17 February, 2018, 04:33:31 pm »
@Brucey, is there a grease you would recommend for wheel bearings?

Re: Wheel Bearings
« Reply #8 on: 17 February, 2018, 04:53:18 pm »
I often  use a semi-fluid grease SFG that has about the same viscosity characteristics as tomato ketchup; this is mobile within the hub when the hub is in use, and keeps the seal lips wetted well, but doesn't leak out too much when the hub is not in use. 

In hubs with cartridge bearings you can remove the inwards facing seals  and put a generous fill of SFG inside. This keeps everything sweet for a long time.

As a rule, if the seals are good enough, you can use a thinner lubricant, in quantity, inside the hub. Just for fun I have run well-sealed hubs in gear oil and there is usually enough seepage to ensure that the outside of the hub is oily to the touch (good for resisting corrosion, bad for disc brakes) and the hubs run as sweet as a nut.

 SFG works the same but leaks out less quickly.

 One of the benefits of using a more generous fill of lube inside hubs is that the airspace is reduced, and thus temperature changes draw less air (and water) past the seals into the bearings.

cheers

Re: Wheel Bearings
« Reply #9 on: 18 February, 2018, 03:45:09 pm »
Thanks. I assume you buy it in large volumes. Penrite seem to do a small size which might do.

Samuel D

Re: Wheel Bearings
« Reply #10 on: 19 February, 2018, 11:18:37 am »
The 'penalty' for such an approach would probably be a slight weep of lube past the seals.  Why manufacturers keep using #2 viscosity greases (which are meant for similar bearings doing 5000 to 10000 rpm, which get warm in use...) in bicycle parts is beyond me.

All the same, the NLGI 1.5 grease I use in my Shimano hubs in winter (last summer I used Shimano Premium Grease although I’m not sure I will this year) weeps out slowly even on rides in close to freezing temperatures. Grease can be seen outside the hub by about the fifth ride. This reassures me that it’s keeping the seals wet, and indeed they have remained effective over many miles.

Modern-day cyclists don’t like to be reminded of grease and oil and dirt. You can see this from their abhorrence of black chains, which drives the popularity of dry waxes that essentially don’t work. Sturmey-Archer style lubrication would offend these people.

Re: Wheel Bearings
« Reply #11 on: 19 February, 2018, 08:56:03 pm »
I often  use a semi-fluid grease SFG that has about the same viscosity characteristics as tomato ketchup; this is mobile within the hub when the hub is in use, and keeps the seal lips wetted well, but doesn't leak out too much when the hub is not in use. 

In hubs with cartridge bearings you can remove the inwards facing seals  and put a generous fill of SFG inside. This keeps everything sweet for a long time.

As a rule, if the seals are good enough, you can use a thinner lubricant, in quantity, inside the hub. Just for fun I have run well-sealed hubs in gear oil and there is usually enough seepage to ensure that the outside of the hub is oily to the touch (good for resisting corrosion, bad for disc brakes) and the hubs run as sweet as a nut.

 SFG works the same but leaks out less quickly.

 One of the benefits of using a more generous fill of lube inside hubs is that the airspace is reduced, and thus temperature changes draw less air (and water) past the seals into the bearings.

cheers

My dad used to like using EP140 gear oil instead of grease in situations where the grease would go soapy and solidify over time ( he explained this to me while replacing Mini swinging arm pivots). He reckoned it was thick enough to stay in place and yet would never solidify like grease.

On a different topic I recently became aware of the existence of very light (10w30 or something in that range) EP gear oil used in motocross gearboxes (need to go downstairs to check the exact viscosity). I am very tempted to try it in an IGH.

Re: Wheel Bearings
« Reply #12 on: 19 February, 2018, 09:15:05 pm »
Similarly, I use a grease designed for exposed machinery which is very soft.  The downside is that it is black (I presume a high graphite content) and very messy if you're not careful with its use.