Author Topic: Trans Pennine Express and bikes  (Read 2556 times)

Trans Pennine Express and bikes
« on: 28 April, 2018, 08:24:39 pm »
Just a heads up that TPE are changing their bike policy from May 20th. They will no longer carry bikes without a reservation, minimum 24 hours notice, essentially the same policy as virgin.

Mods feel free to move if appropriate.

Re: Trans Pennine Express and bikes
« Reply #1 on: 29 April, 2018, 12:35:26 pm »
Is this policy shift documented anywhere?

The current website implies that reservations are required, but the pdf states this:
Quote
Non-Folding Bikes
If your bike doesn’t fold, and you’re taking it on the train with you, we recommend reserving a space.

recommend isn't the same as require.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Trans Pennine Express and bikes
« Reply #2 on: 29 April, 2018, 12:49:54 pm »
I doubt the situation on the ground will be very similar to Virgin.  On a HST or a Pendolino, the bike storage is behind locked doors and you have to ask the train staff nicely to let you on.   On the Class 185s that TPE use, the bike/wheelchair space is open access next to one of the doors so you just get on and put your bike there - or else in the disabled section as people do that too.

TPE trains currently have reservable spaces for up to 2 bikes.  I've spent most of the past five years commuting on various TPE lines and at the popular commuter times there are usually at least three, sometimes up to twice that.  We once had a new conductor start who tried to tell us that we could only have two bikes on the train ... the regular commuters quietly chuckled and she soon stopped with that one.  I wouldn't be surprised if the company try to crack down and the situation gets worse, but I don't see it getting as bad as Virgin, because the physical layout of the train simply isn't conducive to that type of setup.

CrinklyUncle

  • #TCRNo6cap23
Re: Trans Pennine Express and bikes
« Reply #3 on: 29 April, 2018, 01:00:02 pm »
I was on the same train as Si S, the conductor said they are getting new trains with a new layout and less space for bikes which is why bookings would be needed.

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Trans Pennine Express and bikes
« Reply #4 on: 29 April, 2018, 01:01:27 pm »
That's not so good.  It sounds like I got out at the right time then!

mcshroom

  • Mushroom
Re: Trans Pennine Express and bikes
« Reply #5 on: 29 April, 2018, 01:06:01 pm »
Quote
Book in advance or park at the station
From Sunday 20 May 2018, if you're travelling with us and would like to bring your bike on board, you'll need to reserve a space for it in advance.

We're introducing this change to make way for our new trains that arrive in Autumn this year, which will bring a new layout and more seats than our current trains. There will also be space for up to four bikes, an increase from the current two, however there will be less open space (e.g. in vestibules and the "ballroom" area next to First Class) and we want to make sure that everyone travelling with us has a smooth, safe and comfortable journey.

These changes don't apply to folding bikes, which can be placed in luggage racks or between seat backs on board.

Bike reservations will remain free of charge.
https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/travelling-with-us/travelling-with-a-bike/changes-to-bike-reservations

Climbs like a sprinter, sprints like a climber!

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Trans Pennine Express and bikes
« Reply #6 on: 29 April, 2018, 01:08:17 pm »
They're introducing These new trains this year and these ones next year.

Kim

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Re: Trans Pennine Express and bikes
« Reply #7 on: 29 April, 2018, 02:40:26 pm »
I doubt the situation on the ground will be very similar to Virgin.  On a HST or a Pendolino, the bike storage is behind locked doors and you have to ask the train staff nicely to let you on. 

[...]

...but I don't see it getting as bad as Virgin, because the physical layout of the train simply isn't conducive to that type of setup.

I'm not sure it's fair to describe the Virgin setup as 'bad'.  I mean, sure, you need to have a reservation.  And it can sometimes be challenging to track down a member of platform staff.  But once you have your reservation and have caught your dispatcher, you know you can get your bike on the train, that the space isn't going to be full of luggage and/or passengers, and that (at least on a Pendolino) you won't have to do any of that dangly bike space will-it-fit and can-I-lift-it nonsense.

CrossCountry seems to be consistently the worst.  They want you to have reservations, but in reality operate a first-come-first-served system, on routes where lack of capacity means the bike spaces are regularly contended by other users.

I've never seen a member of staff from any train company evict an unreserved bike because someone has turned up with a reservation.  They either bend the rules with a bit of bike-tetris or allowing someone to stand with a bike in a vestibule, or they refuse to let the additional bike on.  Which means that reservations seem pointless unless it's a space that requires staff to access.

OTOH, I went to a London Midland bikes-on-trains hack day a while back, and while none of use were able to come up with a magic solution, I did learn a couple of interesting factoids[1].  One of which was that in the absence of a reservation system, the TOC has no source of data for how many people are taking bikes on their trains.  So maybe that's what it's about?


[1] The other really interesting factoid was a comment from a wheelchair user, to the effect that she loves it when there's a cyclist, because it means she doesn't have to worry about staff not turning up with the ramp to get her off the train - cyclists would invariably get platform staff's attention or if necessary block the doors until the guard appeared.

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Trans Pennine Express and bikes
« Reply #8 on: 29 April, 2018, 03:03:33 pm »
I doubt the situation on the ground will be very similar to Virgin.  On a HST or a Pendolino, the bike storage is behind locked doors and you have to ask the train staff nicely to let you on. 

[...]

...but I don't see it getting as bad as Virgin, because the physical layout of the train simply isn't conducive to that type of setup.

I'm not sure it's fair to describe the Virgin setup as 'bad'.  I mean, sure, you need to have a reservation.  And it can sometimes be challenging to track down a member of platform staff.  But once you have your reservation and have caught your dispatcher, you know you can get your bike on the train, that the space isn't going to be full of luggage and/or passengers, and that (at least on a Pendolino) you won't have to do any of that dangly bike space will-it-fit and can-I-lift-it nonsense.

CrossCountry seems to be consistently the worst.  They want you to have reservations, but in reality operate a first-come-first-served system, on routes where lack of capacity means the bike spaces are regularly contended by other users.

I've never seen a member of staff from any train company evict an unreserved bike because someone has turned up with a reservation.  They either bend the rules with a bit of bike-tetris or allowing someone to stand with a bike in a vestibule, or they refuse to let the additional bike on.  Which means that reservations seem pointless unless it's a space that requires staff to access.

OTOH, I went to a London Midland bikes-on-trains hack day a while back, and while none of use were able to come up with a magic solution, I did learn a couple of interesting factoids[1].  One of which was that in the absence of a reservation system, the TOC has no source of data for how many people are taking bikes on their trains.  So maybe that's what it's about?


[1] The other really interesting factoid was a comment from a wheelchair user, to the effect that she loves it when there's a cyclist, because it means she doesn't have to worry about staff not turning up with the ramp to get her off the train - cyclists would invariably get platform staff's attention or if necessary block the doors until the guard appeared.

I really like XC!  I guess I don't have your problem with hanging my bike up or with fitting it in the hangers but I've never ever been thrown off one because there were too many bikes and I've seen up to 9-10 bikes on one without complaint, so I can make a reservation if I want to be extra sure but I don't need to go through the faff of getting one if I don't want to.  When the train comes, I can get on without convincing an ultra-suspicious member of staff that yes I really do have a reservation, and the trains are short enough that I don't have to run the length of the entire platform because I've been misdirected to the wrong end by some ignoramus of a dispatcher, and I don't have to hang around nervously because despite my reservation there's nobody to open the door.  All three of those are frequent occurrences on Virgin on the ECML

Oh and yes, I have seen someone without a reservation evicted from a train because there were too many bikes.  I've also not been allowed on a train for which I had a reservation because there was too much luggage in the bike space.  That was back when Virgin ran the Voyagers though. 

Another annoying feature of Virgin is that when I'm at one of their stations, their staff get all uppity about reservations even if I'm trying to book on a different company's train for which they aren't required: "Yes, yes, I know there are two bike spaces, but JUST LET ME BOOK A TICKET PLEASE!"

Kim

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Re: Trans Pennine Express and bikes
« Reply #9 on: 29 April, 2018, 03:17:08 pm »
CrossCountry depends a lot on the line.  The Edinburgh-Penzance route's usually okay.  The Southampton one varies greatly depending on time of day (don't hit Oxford in rush hour), as does the Cardiff-Nottingham one.  The Mordor-Stansted train is nearly always horrible, and has some of the worst jobsworth guards.  The lack of dangly bike spaces is little consolation.

The nobody-to-open-the-door problem depends on the station.  I've never had a problem at Preston, Lancaster, Carlisle.  Staff are generally abundant at Mordor Central, but often concealed by crowds (who are inevitably taller than you or the member of staff) - my preferred approach if I can't find one is to loiter at Coach C and look for the train manger, rather than waiting at the bike space end.  Euston's usually fine, except when arriving late at night, where you may have to wait for the cleaners.  When travelling EUS-BHM I try to get a train that terminates.  If the driver's getting off, you know you're going to get out.

But if all else fails, block a door and someone will appear sooner or later.

Wrong-end-of-the-train isn't usually a problem on the WCML, as the bike space is consistently at the non-London end of the train.  I've had Type 2 Fun with that on other routes.  You wouldn't think it would be that hard for them to know which way round their trains are pointing, would you?

Ben T

Re: Trans Pennine Express and bikes
« Reply #10 on: 30 April, 2018, 08:58:12 am »
I doubt the situation on the ground will be very similar to Virgin.  On a HST or a Pendolino, the bike storage is behind locked doors and you have to ask the train staff nicely to let you on. 

[...]

...but I don't see it getting as bad as Virgin, because the physical layout of the train simply isn't conducive to that type of setup.

I'm not sure it's fair to describe the Virgin setup as 'bad'.  I mean, sure, you need to have a reservation.  And it can sometimes be challenging to track down a member of platform staff.  But once you have your reservation and have caught your dispatcher, you know you can get your bike on the train, that the space isn't going to be full of luggage and/or passengers, and that (at least on a Pendolino) you won't have to do any of that dangly bike space will-it-fit and can-I-lift-it nonsense.

CrossCountry seems to be consistently the worst.  They want you to have reservations, but in reality operate a first-come-first-served system, on routes where lack of capacity means the bike spaces are regularly contended by other users.

I've never seen a member of staff from any train company evict an unreserved bike because someone has turned up with a reservation.  They either bend the rules with a bit of bike-tetris or allowing someone to stand with a bike in a vestibule, or they refuse to let the additional bike on.  Which means that reservations seem pointless unless it's a space that requires staff to access.

OTOH, I went to a London Midland bikes-on-trains hack day a while back, and while none of use were able to come up with a magic solution, I did learn a couple of interesting factoids[1].  One of which was that in the absence of a reservation system, the TOC has no source of data for how many people are taking bikes on their trains.  So maybe that's what it's about?


[1] The other really interesting factoid was a comment from a wheelchair user, to the effect that she loves it when there's a cyclist, because it means she doesn't have to worry about staff not turning up with the ramp to get her off the train - cyclists would invariably get platform staff's attention or if necessary block the doors until the guard appeared.

Another mildly interesting factoid is that you can get a bike reservation , for free, without buying, or even having, a ticket. You can just walk into any station and ask for one, or ring up, and they'll give you a collection reference.
I used to think you had to have a ticket, or buy a ticket at the same time, but you don't.

I do also know for a fact that on virgin their system doesn't dictate that it has to be 24 hours in advance, as I've got one printed off for a train in 20 minutes before. Their policy might say that you're supposed to get one 24 hours before, but if it does, it relies on the staff implementing it, so if you need one under 24 hours always worth just asking nicely.

Agree that XC are awful, they put bin bags in the bike space, and it's a pain in the arse if someone else's bike is blocking yours. Far rather the dedicated carriage of virgin.

Another anecdote is when getting on a virgin train they always ask "have you got a reservation?" and I always just answer "yes" but they very very rarely actually ask to see it. I wouldn't plan to risk it, but I wonder if you got caught short without a reservation for a train you wanted to get on you could just chance it and just say "oh yes, of course I've got a reservation officer  :smug:" when you actually haven't.
By contrast, on scotrail, it is far more likely to be checked ime.

Re: Trans Pennine Express and bikes
« Reply #11 on: 01 May, 2018, 02:59:39 pm »
But if all else fails, block a door and someone will appear sooner or later.

Wrong-end-of-the-train isn't usually a problem on the WCML, as the bike space is consistently at the non-London end of the train.  I've had Type 2 Fun with that on other routes.  You wouldn't think it would be that hard for them to know which way round their trains are pointing, would you?

Fortunately I was on the WCML north bound when the train manager failed to turn up to let me out at Warrington*. As it was north bound and we were stationary at the platform I had no compunction about shouting to the driver to ask that I be let out.




* This was despite me communicating with the train manager when I boarded and with the new train manager after the staff change at Wolverhampton.

Kim

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Re: Trans Pennine Express and bikes
« Reply #12 on: 01 May, 2018, 03:02:55 pm »
* This was despite me communicating with the train manager when I boarded and with the new train manager after the staff change at Wolverhampton.

My general approach is to go and find them after my penultimate station, if I haven't already seen them.  No risk of sneaky crew changes and less time for them to forget.

Re: Trans Pennine Express and bikes
« Reply #13 on: 01 May, 2018, 03:27:51 pm »
I had. I saw him after leaving the previous station and he still didn't turn up. I suspect the driver gave him stick for the rest of the shift.

mcshroom

  • Mushroom
Re: Trans Pennine Express and bikes
« Reply #14 on: 01 May, 2018, 03:38:51 pm »
I got left on a WCML train at Euston again last week, and last year had an unwanted trip to Penrith and back (at the end of a long day's travelling which I really didn't need) as, despite me deliberately finding the Train Manager after getting on at Glasgow, nobody turned up at Carlisle to let me out of the Pendolino.

They seem to be getting worse! I'm seriously considering getting a carriage key
Climbs like a sprinter, sprints like a climber!