Budget suspension forks

[nikki]

The suspension fork on my commuter hybrid is on its last legs and I should probably do something about it.



Current fork is a SR Suntour NEX 4000 and it's not had any sort of attention since that photo was taken in *checks* 2013.
Rusty stanchions, perished seals, travel down to about 10mm...

I do enough canal-based rough stuff and extended commutes that it's worth keeping front sus rather than going to a rigid fork, and I'm guessing the perished concertina seals mean it's probably worth buying a new fork rather than trying to refurb the current one.

What am I to look for in a new one? Are the important things wheel size (700c), brake mounts (v) and steerer tube size (erm, will have to have a closer look at that - has some sort of sleeve over it that the stem slides up and down on before being tightened into position).

What's involved in fitting the new one? Some sawing, I presume. Are there any other bits I'll need to source, or is everything transfer acrossable? *vaguely remembers a star spangled something or other*

And I guess, after that, anyone got any recommendations for a ~£100 fork?

[Brucey]

IMHO a cheap suspension fork is pretty much as waste of time; it won't work that well when it is new and it won't last that long either. Even quite expensive forks need servicing regularly and still manage to wear out.

My suggestion is to try a wider and more supple tyre at the front and see if that is noticeably more comfy for you even with the current fork hardly working.  If this test is successful then buy a rigid fork.

cheers

[Torslanda]

I'll try and point you in the right direction tomorrow.

It's too late and I have had too much boozahol...

[Paul]

I’m in the same situation but with a 26” wheel. I don’t do anything that really requires suspension.

I’m torn between a new, rigid fork which would reduce weight, or just living with the dead one (which would reduce expenditure of time and money).

[Cudzoziemiec]

All this is subject to correction from someone who knows, ie Torslanda when he's sobered up:

The star fangled nut is attached to the steerer cap, so you can keep the one you've got.
The vital measurements are steerer diameter (1¹/₈" is the most common but certainly not the only one) and height from drop out to fork crown.
And then I guess it's a question of how much bounciness you want, etc.

[Paul]

If there is a star fangled nut it is wedged into the steerer. It’s not wrong to say that it’s connected to the top cap, because it is. But that comes later.
I suspect that it is easier to abandon and replace the SFN (with something removable) than it is to reuse it.

[Kim]

AIUI star-fangled nuts can (at least sometimes) be pushed further down the steerer until they emerge from the bottom end.  But it might be prudent to acquire a spare one anyway.

It's the fork crown headset race that will be more of a drama.

[Bolt]

I've had success with rigid alu forks from Carbon Cycles with 2" wide supple tyres for canal path commutes and green lane touring.

https://www.carboncycles.cc/?s=0&t=12&&q=fork_selector&

[Torslanda]

Replacement forks don't come cheaper than this.**

You will need a star/star fangled/star flanged nut. You will need to remove the crown race from the original fork and fit to the new one. You will need to shorten the steerer to the length of the original (or buy a shitload of 5/10mm spacers).

Alternatively you could fit a rigid fork - BUT - you will need one with an axle to crown dimension that matches your existing fork (good luck with that) or you will end up with a hybrid that steers like a track bike. Just what you want on a Brummie canal bank. Not.



**I have supplied these for years. They must have a warehouse full of 'em. They are dead reliable, reasonably light - possibly lighter than your exiting fork - and the gaiters keep most of the s4!7e out, so they last a long time. No need to look any further IMHO.

[Kim]

You will need to remove the crown race from the original fork and fit to the new one.

There's a special tool for removing them.  I have one you can borrow, but it's currently somewhere under a pile of displaced tqt and builder detritus.  I'll let you know if it surfaces, probably some time next week (builders are on hiatus until Monday because the window suppliers have been dicking them around).

[rafletcher]

Removal can be accomplished by judicious application of a thin bladed screwdriver and a mallet. Installing it (or a new one - why not replace the headset at the same time?) should strictly use some form of tubular drift, but again the mallet and a blunt drift / screwdriver can be used.

Or, when buying a new headset, acquire one with a split crown race, which is an easy push fit to install. Well, maybe a little persuasion might be required, but not much.

Given the use of spacers on the original build, I don't think you'll be in to cutting down the steerer, just getting the right combo of spacers.

A fork "bung" can be used if you don't want to use or fit a star fangled nut. The latter need to be driven in square to ensure you can bolt into them later.  The former are used for carbon forks, but work equally well in steel or alu, bearing in mind they're only used to pre-load the headset bearings, it's the stem clamp that holds it all together finally. (Granny and eggs, probably)

 Like this...

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/deda-expander-bung/

[Gattopardo]

Lots of intelligent stuff

He is right.

Have purchased those forks before, for a friends older mountain bike, better than the original RST imo and lasted well.

[Torslanda]

"Lots of intelligent stuff"

He is right.

Steady on, lad! You'll be having people think I know what I'm doing next...

It's all lies. LIES I TELL YA!!!!

[nikki]

Thanks all!

Expensive is out 'cos it gets left around in the city centre a bit too much to be too heavily invested in. Interesting points about wider tyres up-thread though. There's probably a range of different solutions: damn hybrids!

Saving weight is tempting, but I think I could address that more effectively via my belly or the contents of my panniers!


That Chilli Works fork (in black!) is probably worth a punt - thanks Torslanda. Length checks out; I just need to have a proper look at what's going on with the current steerer.

I'll do a bit more learning about nuts and headsets and tools and things. Probably now is the time to get a fresh headset too. Will let you know about the crown race tool Kim - thanks!

[barakta]

Come and have a meal with us at the same time, it's been ages since we saw you Nikki! I can almost certainly concoct something gluten free and nice/edible

[Brucey]

if you don't really need the suspension (as I suspect is the case for towpath use), a rigid fork (of the correct length) is arguably a fantastic upgrade.

  It immediately removes about 2lbs of dead weight from the bike, the bike feels nicer to ride, is often more efficient (no more bobbing when climbing), more reliable, and steers better too.

If you go into a bike shop and see how much you would have to spend extra on a new bike to get one that did the same job, but is  2lbs lighter, it is usually a considerable amount of cash.  Yet rigid forks are about the same price as a cheap suspension fork; bargain!

cheers

[Kim]

Given what they've done to the towpaths around here (a perfect storm of hand-levelled tarmac, deteriorating chipseal^[1] and tree roots) front suspension and touring tyres seems entirely sensible - I avoid the towpaths on my rigid-forked hybrid because my wrists start to object to the constant pummelling after about half an hour.  It'll slow you down a lot less on the road than MTB tyres will.

(A lock-out would be nice to pevent the bobbing, but you're not getting that on a budget model.)


_{[1] Applied soon after construction, because council rules mean that surfaced-dressed paths don't require sweeping or gritting.}   

[mzjo]

Given what they've done to the towpaths around here (a perfect storm of hand-levelled tarmac, deteriorating chipseal^[1] and tree roots) front suspension and touring tyres seems entirely sensible - I avoid the towpaths on my rigid-forked hybrid because my wrists start to object to the constant pummelling after about half an hour.  It'll slow you down a lot less on the road than MTB tyres will.

(A lock-out would be nice to pevent the bobbing, but you're not getting that on a budget model.)


_{[1] Applied soon after construction, because council rules mean that surfaced-dressed paths don't require sweeping or gritting.}   

My cheap SR fork has a remote lock-out and yes, it is one of its finest features (the other one being its high resale value to scrap metal merchants). Mr. Torslanda would probably give a more critical one word assessment of my fork! (But the lock-out does make it a whole lot nicer to use, on and off the road).

[nikki]

I'm still debating the two approaches...

I have to admit the super cheap Chili Works fork is making me a little bit nervous, but I measured the hybrid today and it looks like it'd work.

Axle-crown length: check
1 ¹/₈" steerer tube diameter: check
enough steerer tube length to accommodate the weird sleeve thing: check
brake compatibility: check

Sanity check: this isn't a tapered steerer is it? Just flares to accommodate the bearings.



And here's the weird sleeve thing that's in lieu of spacers:



The sleeve is a few mm taller than the steerer, so that's what the stem cap clamps down on. The stem has a notch that locates on the sleeve and is then free to be slid up and down as required.





Do these things have a name? What is?


I haven't yet ventured as far as trying to get at the bearings to see what condition they're in.


Torslanda or Gattopardo, are either of you able to say if that fork has a lockout?

~~~

Looking at possible options for a rigid fork, most searchings seem to lead back to the CarbonCycles eXotic forks that Bolt pointed at up thread. This one in the 700c version: https://www.carboncycles.cc/index.php?s=0&c=92&p=201

My basic level commute features the many rock gardens of Birmingham's Jewellery Quarter canals:





These are teeth-rattling enough that I have stopped taking my laptop unless it's absolutely necessary.

Sometimes I add in a bit of rooty-tooty on the way home to keep things interesting:



If I go for a full-on extended commute, it'll be a couple of hours of something likely to include a significant amount of this:





I once rode the singletrack between Wolverhampton and Birmingham on my Old Skool Mountain Bike (1.95" tyres, rigid forks) and vowed never to do so again. Grips were possibly a contributing factor in that, but...

And, as Kim says, even the 'surfaced' stuff is pretty aggressive.

Other alarm bells:
I'm on 35mm tyres at the moment. Don't want to start having to get into messing with (or up) mudguard clearances.
Am assuming more supple tyres would be less puncture resistant and I don't really want to go in that direction because Digbeth. My Marathons do a sterling job of keeping me rolling.


So, that's roughly where my thinking's at at the moment.

Come and have a meal with us

  Thanks!

[Torslanda]

Righto. Headset is "semi integrated", easy replacement but if it's smooth and not rusty just grease it & put it back. Not flared. Same bearing top & bottom.

Stem/spacer is proprietary but fits any std fork. Designed to allow stem height adjustment without interfering with the bearings.

Daresay you can get a lockout fork from the same peeps. The brief was 'budget'.

Finally. I know I'm what you might call generously proportioned but I wouldn't ride that on less than 2" tyres so rigid ain't an option.

[Brucey]

OT but it occurs to me that if you need a suspension fork, you might get some benefit from a suspension seat post too.

cheers

[nikki]

Thanks Torslanda.

Just to clarify: when I asked about lockout I was thinking about a switch on the top of the leg rather than remote switch.
(Although this has popped up in today's searches!)

you might get some benefit from a suspension seat post too.

Ta, but just the forks should see me right. I should really get a better saddle though, considering the miles I do on this bike!

[Cudzoziemiec]

I've no idea how much the fork on my Merida mtb cost, in fact I can't even remember its make (and can't check cos the bike got stolen) but given the whole bike was about £325 it was probably a cheapish one. It had a lockout (not remote) but it certainly didn't remove all bobbing on road, especially noticeable going up hill.

That grassy towpath and possibly the rooty earth path look like something I'd be happy to ride without suspension, but for maybe half an hour not a couple of hours. And the bricks, that's where suspension really pays off. But nikki being a mountain biker knows all this anyway.

[Kim]

I tend to just suck it up and consider the canal paths to be technical off-roading that justifies use of my Reasonably Priced Mountain Bicycle, suspension fork^[1], squishy soft tyres with nobbles on and all.  On that I can ride that stuff for hours^[2] and retain full use of my fingers.  Of course the downside is that you end up covered in mud/dust, which is why I mostly use the roads...


_{[1] Suntour something with inflatable shock and remote lockout, so stretching the definition of 'low end'
[2] This is a lie.  This year my cycling fitness is so recumbent-specific my legs turn to jelly in about the time it takes to remember how to shift my weight around on an off-road bike.}

[nikki]

But nikki being a mountain biker knows all this anyway.

I've got that smoother line in the bricks about 80% dialled as a skinny if there's no-one else in the way...