So, you've qualified for PBP...

[Ian H]

crash-course term was semi intentional talking about etiquette, is it considered bad if someone feels strong enough to stay in the group, but not strong to be in the front and just stays in the middle/back? how to "feel" the speed when being in the front? sometimes i'm either go off too fast or ride too slow thus being overtaken after one minute. what is the "common" interval between swaps?

Ideally maintain the same speed - so the lead moves over and slows a little to drift to the back. If, on the front, you find that hard to maintain then either ease up a little or do a shorter stint. It's much easier if the lead riders peel off, rather than than hanging on going slower and slower until someone decides to go past.

[Ian H]

British riders are known for their relatively poor riding skills. I have seen the occasional one blissfully unaware of the chaos in his wake.

[DrMekon]

PezCycling News - What's Cool In Pro Cycling

Found that in the other thread - very helpful. I've definitely been doing things wrong. He advocates not shouting. I've heard a lot of shouting (car up=overtaking / car down=oncoming car?). Is that not the norm? Also, the rh behind the back, pointing left = parked car?

Evening rides also difficult to do regularly, as getting two young kids to bed is a nightly rigmarole, but my wife runs in the evening (training for a half-marathon). I think it's just something that'll have to wait until the kids are a bit older.

Appreciate the tips - thanks.

[mattc]

Group riding skills become much rarer towards the back of the field on most Audaxes.
(Which is annoying if you have some clue, but little speed!) Possibly due to the reduced number of club riders. You can ride 1000s of km without seeing any etiquette in action.

Most of the 'etiquette' is irrelevant if noone else knows it. Basics matter in any group:
- pointing out (and calling) hazards. Doesn't need to be sophisticated.
- RIDE SMOOTHLY. Keep a steady speed*. No sudden changes of direction (especially for hazards - look ahead and plan a smooth early manouevre ).


*there are a lot of riders in this world who just can't do this. Some are the pedal-pedal-pedal-coast variety. Some will accelerate away in the middle of a long anecdote, then slow down again. repeat. Very odd ...

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Car up (your bum), car down (your throat) mean the opposite direction in Oz (up the road, down behind). Potential confusion in a multi-national peleton.

An arm behind the back is telling you to move in that direction, to not pass too close to a parked car or suchlike.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

I'd be quite annoyed at somebody who knew I was behind them and ran me through a bad pothole. My next action would depend on how apologetic they were afterwards.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

There would be a 'discussion' if the front rider ran me through a pothole and I wouldn't be the only one discomforted.

Let me know who you are IRL and I'll be sure to avoid your wheel.

[Karla]

crash-course term was semi intentional talking about etiquette, is it considered bad if someone feels strong enough to stay in the group, but not strong to be in the front and just stays in the middle/back? how to "feel" the speed when being in the front? sometimes i'm either go off too fast or ride too slow thus being overtaken after one minute. what is the "common" interval between swaps?

That depends on the group.  JFDI, get out there on some group rides!

[LittleWheelsandBig]

The suggestion of getting used to riding in a group was in the context of riding in groups during the first night. If you intend to ride in groups the first night, it is better for your fellow riders that your group riding skills are better than average, rather than worse than average.

[vorsprung]

. I was trying to make the point that doing lots of group rides where you get used to people pointing out hazards in Danish and generally riding nicely madly because they are American and have been awake 36 hours straight is likely to make your PBP experience worse rather than better.

FTFY

[LEE]

I'll signal/announce hazards to people I'm riding with (and that includes strangers who make a sociable attempt to communicate with me) but I don't go out of my way to help those silent wheel-suckers who don't tell you of their presence (even though you know they are there) and who move silently on to the back of another group once you become too slow for their needs.

On top of that I'm 50:50 at best at remembering the correct signals so I'm not reliable.  I could warn you about a pothole and then forget to do so for the next one.  Best not to trust me.

Besides that, it's probably easier just to warn people of some approaching smooth tarmac, I'd get Repetetive-Strain-Injury waving my arms about every time I saw a pot hole.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

British riders are known for their relatively poor riding skills. I have seen the occasional one blissfully unaware of the chaos in his wake.

Quoted for truth. Riding with a range of nationalities is one of the delights of PBP.

[mattc]

Well I must say, this thread has been much more lively than the other 10 we've had about What To Do Between Qualifying and PBP. Keep it up!

[Redlight]

Last time I found the run out of StQ pretty hairy as there is a fair bit of street furniture in the middle of the roads to avoid. There was also a good number of people who thought that they were in a old-style bunch sprint, aggressively weaving in and out of other riders.

The other thing I found challenging was that there didn't seem to be the discipline of slower riders moving to the edge. On several of the hills I found myself having to use the opposite lane to pass groups that were strung out across the road in a line, which was annoying.

Of course, it loosens up after about 50km and smaller, more manageable, groups tend to form. I am not a skilled group rider so I tended only to ride with "sociable" groups who simply want to chat, but there were plenty of chain gangs powering their way along. I joined one for a while but I found myself spending what I thought was a disproportionate amount of time at the front so I let them go.  As noted elsewhere, some riders possess ability but not manners  

[Redlight]

Well I must say, this thread has been much more lively than the other 10 we've had about What To Do Between Qualifying and PBP. Keep it up!

Well, get to the front and lead us somewhere else then

[simonp]

Intervals.  Did my first session of 2011 on Monday.  When I can fit it in I'll also be doing some club 10s.

[The Seldom Killer]

The thing is, all the instructions and tutorials in books and on the internet will not teach you what its like to ride in a group.

You won't learn what its like to be be moving at high speed, boxed up against the kerb in the middle of a pack and how you feel about that. You won't learn how to close up a gap without leaving your packmates falling off the back. You won't learn to quickly identify the characteristics of your fellow riders signals. You won't learn when to break cover and dive down a hill then help string the pack back together again. You won't learn how much to let the rider in front get ahead on a tight bend or a sudden hump to avoid running at the back of them or thrashing it to get back onto them. You won't learn when you're having a good moment and inadvertently spreading the group behind you all over the countryside.

It's not just about signals and lines and all of this really is best learnt in the pack. Alas, now that you've covered 1500km in qualification, I have to break it to you that one of the best places to learn this is audaxing with ever changing groups and greater tolerance for varying personal styles.

I think a bit of pack riding with a local club is a good thing and most riders stand to benefit from it. Likewise, as Mr. BD says, you can't fully rely on the riding skills of strangers. People are going to have different interpretations of what you need warning of. Some riders won't care about riding through potholes or might expect you to follow their wheel so exactly that any discomfort you suffer for being over an inch out is your own fault. As always, the rule of audaxing is ride for yourself first.

[MattH]

Also, even people that do point out problems in the road may become more sporadic as they tire - so at the start of long rides you may see many signals, tending towards few at the end.
I know I get that way as concentration goes down.

[Bigsybaby]

If you stand up on your pedals quickly on a hill it sends your bike backwards, this impacts on the Peleton by bringing the back riders to a stand still. If you do this they will soon tell you about it.

[simonp]

It can cause a crash.  I almost caught out adamski (I think it was him) on the Brevet Cymru because I was riding fixed and suddenly stood on the pedals on a hill.

[mattc]

It can cause a crash.  I almost caught out adamski (I think it was him) on the Brevet Cymru because I was riding fixed and suddenly stood on the pedals on a hill.

that's quite forgiveable. Fixies tackle hills so differently to normal riders, it's essential to Expect the Unexpected.
(the one that catches me out is stopping-without-first-freewheeling  )

[EdinburghFixed]

I don't plan on spending any time drafting so thankfully the trickier points of the above aren't really that important. Qualified off my own back, finish likewise etc. etc. (to say nothing of the geometrical difficulties presented).

Of course, I don't really mind if someone wants to try and draft me, but it will be 'caveat emptor' as far as hazards go, mostly because they've got just as good a view

[frankly frankie]

I'd be quite annoyed at somebody who knew I was behind them and ran me through a bad pothole. My next action would depend on how apologetic they were afterwards.

So, like I said, you're annoyed, the rider in front is oblivious, whose ride is being spoiled by the absence of ettiquette?

I'm absolutely with Ross on this one.

If you're riding behind someone and don't like the way they're behaving, given that it's not a race there are perfectly simple, non-confrontational ways of dealing with it - like choosing another bit of road to occupy.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Actions have consequences. You can choose, so can I.

[The Seldom Killer]

In which case I respectfully request that you don't ride behind me as I wouldn't wish to fail to live up to your exacting riding standards. I'll be riding some of the time in a YACF jersey (not sure which one yet, I'll be buying it closer to the time).