Author Topic: [LEL17] Support cars  (Read 13761 times)

Brakeless

  • Brakeless
[LEL17] Support cars
« on: 09 August, 2017, 05:14:35 pm »
Riding LEL with a support car must take some of the challenge away. Having as much kit and supplies as you could possibly need at each control must make things so much easier as well as riding with a much lighter bike due to not having to carry spare kit.

I know it's well within the rules and paid for and totally up to them etc but seeing these riders and thier helpers at controls took a little bit away from the whole ride for me. I'm sure some will disagree but it didn't feel like they were 'earning' the ride as much as every one else.

I'd much prefer to see every one on a level playing field with support vehicles only where absolutely needed ie enabling someone with a disability or in need of regular medication to take part.

Re: Support cars
« Reply #1 on: 09 August, 2017, 05:21:58 pm »
I think I carried just as much on my bike as those who weren"t using drop bags. My drop bags contained a change of clothes and a t shirt (to sleep in but not used), and my LEL bottle.
Bikes are for riding, not cleaning!

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Support cars
« Reply #2 on: 09 August, 2017, 06:04:36 pm »
If you want to level the playing field, then first and foremost you'll have to mandate people's Copious Free Time.  Then probably their budget.

There have to be some arbitrary rules, of course.  Support vehicles may not be in the spirit of audax - whatever that's supposed to be - but you could say the same about all sorts of things that are permitted (eg. sleeping facilities and bag drops).  If the vehicles aren't causing a problem to riders or controllers, then what's the issue?

I admit I don't really understand how someone doing something differently detracts from your own ride.  Ultimately, it's a test of being able to ride a long way on a bike, not of secondary suffering.  (See discussion passim on the year record threads.)

Brakeless

  • Brakeless
Re: Support cars
« Reply #3 on: 09 August, 2017, 06:30:42 pm »
If you want to level the playing field, then first and foremost you'll have to mandate people's Copious Free Time.  Then probably their budget.

There have to be some arbitrary rules, of course.  Support vehicles may not be in the spirit of audax - whatever that's supposed to be - but you could say the same about all sorts of things that are permitted (eg. sleeping facilities and bag drops).  If the vehicles aren't causing a problem to riders or controllers, then what's the issue?

I admit I don't really understand how someone doing something differently detracts from your own ride.  Ultimately, it's a test of being able to ride a long way on a bike, not of secondary suffering.  (See discussion passim on the year record threads.)

Sleeping Facilities and Bag drops are available to all participants. Not sure what budget or free time has to do with it, you still have to pedal.

This was a tough ride as the DNF statistics show and it was probably a lot tougher for those without support vehicles and therefore not a level playing field. Of course everyone could have support vehicles but that wouldn't work would it. I think that appearing in the finishers list for LEL 2017 is quite a big deal and if you had a support car it kind of detracts from that and from all the riders who didn't.

Re: Support cars
« Reply #4 on: 09 August, 2017, 06:40:04 pm »
Often, an important (non-riding) other wishes to be involved in the experience. Supporting a loved one is one such way of achieving this.
#makewattsnotwar

Brakeless

  • Brakeless
Re: Support cars
« Reply #5 on: 09 August, 2017, 06:42:17 pm »
Often, an important (non-riding) other wishes to be involved in the experience. Supporting a loved one is one such way of achieving this.

Volunteering would be another

Re: Support cars
« Reply #6 on: 09 August, 2017, 06:51:42 pm »
Yes it would, but that requires the volunteer to remain mostly in one place for the duration of the event. Especially in the case of overseas riders, a spouse or partner may also wish to enjoy the road trip.

These issues are not always cut and dried in the respect that a rider is trying to make things easier. Sometimes a factor in participation is that an important other's wishes need to be taken into consideration.
#makewattsnotwar

Graeme

  • @fatherhilarious.blog 🦋
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Re: Support cars
« Reply #7 on: 09 August, 2017, 07:07:46 pm »
We were regularly passed by a white car with French numberplates.

Imagine being isolated from the other riders at controls by a partner who's stalked you the entire length of the ride north and back. Imagine not being able to bounce a control but have to stop and talk to a loved one or a car full of family members. Imagine the faff that having to spend time with someone not riding - not a volunteer to meet - but the same person over and over again. I can't think of anything more distracting. I loved meeting volunteers and spending time with other riders. I'd send my partner an 'I'm safe' text, but other than that I was on planet audax.

The sensible way for a support team to work would be to bounce the control - checking in and out, then having a dedicated support stop down the road with personalised nutrition and time effective sleep opportunities. Combine that with an A road alternative route and the chances of getting a sub-100 hour time are better.

But just having a boyfriend/girlfriend stalking you from control to control could be a nightmare.

αdαmsκι

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Re: Support cars
« Reply #8 on: 09 August, 2017, 07:18:15 pm »
Just get family member to ride with you :thumbsup:
What on earth am I doing here on this beautiful day?! This is the only life I've got!!

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Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Support cars
« Reply #9 on: 09 August, 2017, 08:08:26 pm »
Not sure what budget or free time has to do with it, you still have to pedal.

Exactly.

Fidgetbuzz

  • L sp MOON. 1st R sp MARS . At X SO sp STARS
Re: Support cars
« Reply #10 on: 09 August, 2017, 08:13:14 pm »
We were regularly passed by a white car with French numberplates.

Is this right .. actually on the route .. if so any idea who the car was supporting .. I would be happy trying to get Danial to disqualify the rider

Roger
I was an accountant until I discovered Audax !!

Re: Support cars
« Reply #11 on: 09 August, 2017, 08:20:13 pm »
several people stopped at the premier inn at the bridge and some had booked the howard arms in Brampton.  Does this detract from your ride in that they lay in crisp white sheets, had fluffy towels for their shower and a cooked breakfast, whilst you had Danial's air bed and the dogs home blanket?

Brakeless

  • Brakeless
Re: Support cars
« Reply #12 on: 09 August, 2017, 08:24:40 pm »
several people stopped at the premier inn at the bridge and some had booked the howard arms in Brampton.  Does this detract from your ride in that they lay in crisp white sheets, had fluffy towels for their shower and a cooked breakfast, whilst you had Danial's air bed and the dogs home blanket?

No that would have been an option for everyone if so inclined and if booked early enough. Stopping at a hotel or two is not the same as getting clean warm gloves and clothes and your ideal food every 100km or less if needed.

Graeme

  • @fatherhilarious.blog 🦋
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Re: Support cars
« Reply #13 on: 09 August, 2017, 08:28:37 pm »
We were regularly passed by a white car with French numberplates.

Is this right .. actually on the route .. if so any idea who the car was supporting .. I would be happy trying to get Danial to disqualify the rider

Roger

Absolutely right. But didn't bother us, just made us chuckle. We thought we'd discovered how some riders kept their bike weight so low... Get everything carried in a car. We also saw a black car used to pick up an LEL labelled bike from the same layby the honourable Drew Buck had occupied. We assumed someone had packed on the climb.

I'm not sure how you'd work out who to disqualify, or how that would play out politically or from a PR perspective. I'm certainly not requesting anyone be disqualified. Poor soul couldn't even do the ride without being stalked.

Crinkles had an interesting story of a useless volunteer... Someone who basically was following their partner and "volunteering" only for the length of time their partner was at the control - eating volunteer food and leaving. (Unless I've misunderstood her - I was quite befuddled when I got to BC).

Re: Support cars
« Reply #14 on: 09 August, 2017, 08:32:34 pm »
I don't understand what the OP means about a"level playing field".  Actually, I'm probably being disingenuous because I imagine what the OP means is that it's not a fair COMPETITION.  Really, it''s just you against the event.

That said, support cars caused a lot of praoblems at Eskdalemuir because they weren't supposed to be on that section of the route, as I understand it.  Disqualification of the rider is an obvious knee-jerk reaction but that would be hard on a rider who had no idea that his drugs bus support team was transgressing.

It's certainly an issue that needs discussion and clarification, maybe even to the extent of a blanket ban - but rather from safety considerations than otherwise.

Peter

Fidgetbuzz

  • L sp MOON. 1st R sp MARS . At X SO sp STARS
Re: Support cars
« Reply #15 on: 09 August, 2017, 08:35:27 pm »
It is a given  both for us an d PBP that a support car is  not allowed on the riders route .. rider disqualified .  Increases the risk of a rider / vehicle accident that we absolutely do not want.
I was an accountant until I discovered Audax !!

Brakeless

  • Brakeless
Re: Support cars
« Reply #16 on: 09 August, 2017, 08:38:51 pm »
I don't understand what the OP means about a"level playing field".  Actually, I'm probably being disingenuous because I imagine what the OP means is that it's not a fair COMPETITION.  Really, it''s just you against the event.

That said, support cars caused a lot of praoblems at Eskdalemuir because they weren't supposed to be on that section of the route, as I understand it.  Disqualification of the rider is an obvious knee-jerk reaction but that would be hard on a rider who had no idea that his drugs bussupport team was transgressing.

It's certainly an issue that needs discussion and clarification, maybe even to the extent of a blanket ban - but rather from safety considerations than otherwise.

Peter

You imagine wrong! It's a challenge, it has rules, it has a time limit. Nothing to do with competition. When a finish list is published it'd be nice if everyone had achieved  the same thing in the same manner.

Re: Support cars
« Reply #17 on: 09 August, 2017, 08:41:03 pm »
It might be nice, for some, I guess.  Maybe the competitive ones.  I'd just be happy to be on the list.

Re: Support cars
« Reply #18 on: 09 August, 2017, 08:47:51 pm »
Many of the official supporters were sweetie pies, but a few at the sharp end ground my gears.

Personally, I'd much rather supporters volunteered at a northern control, and took some time out to support their riders there. Plenty of people do this; it works really well for everyone.

But all this driving around in motorhomes? I don't care for it and I think it goes against what we're about.

Graeme

  • @fatherhilarious.blog 🦋
    • Graeme's Blog
Re: Support cars
« Reply #19 on: 09 August, 2017, 08:58:33 pm »
Many of the official supporters were sweetie pies, but a few at the sharp end ground my gears.

Personally, I'd much rather supporters volunteered at a northern control, and took some time out to support their riders there. Plenty of people do this; it works really well for everyone.

But all this driving around in motorhomes? I don't care for it and I think it goes against what we're about.

Oh yes... the motorhome. That was ridiculous. A rented one. Only saw it on the route once though.

Re: Support cars
« Reply #20 on: 09 August, 2017, 08:59:14 pm »
I live in France and when I go out on rides I see very few cars and those I do are normally very courteous and give me lots of room. I rode LEL and was horrified by not only the volume of traffic but the general aggressiveness of drivers to cyclists. It makes me laugh that there is talk of disqualifying riders because of maybe a few more cars amongst the thousands supporting people on your roads who could be a danger to the other cyclists.

My wife stayed for the duration at Thirsk this event as a helper while I rode but she has supported me several times on PBP at various controls. As PIP said up thread, some couples like to share the experience and years later we can still talk, cry and laugh about the events as we were both heavily involved and in the thick of the action. I'm sorry her presence may detract from some of your rides but we shall continue to do our thing.

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: Support cars
« Reply #21 on: 09 August, 2017, 09:03:46 pm »
You imagine wrong! It's a challenge, it has rules, it has a time limit. Nothing to do with competition. When a finish list is published it'd be nice if everyone had achieved  the same thing in the same manner.

And the rules allow for the use of a support vehicle, which isn't allowed to use the same route as the riders but is allowed to use some of the facilities at some of the controls, if that vehicle and the supporters have registered and paid a fee to the organisation.  I suspect that the decision to allow this is based in pragmatism - it is better to allow the controlled and safe use of support vehicles than to deal with the effects of unofficial ones over whom the organisation has little influence.

LMT

Re: Support cars
« Reply #22 on: 09 August, 2017, 09:15:20 pm »
I don't understand what the OP means about a"level playing field".  Actually, I'm probably being disingenuous because I imagine what the OP means is that it's not a fair COMPETITION.  Really, it''s just you against the event.

That said, support cars caused a lot of praoblems at Eskdalemuir because they weren't supposed to be on that section of the route, as I understand it.  Disqualification of the rider is an obvious knee-jerk reaction but that would be hard on a rider who had no idea that his drugs bussupport team was transgressing.

It's certainly an issue that needs discussion and clarification, maybe even to the extent of a blanket ban - but rather from safety considerations than otherwise.

Peter

You imagine wrong! It's a challenge, it has rules, it has a time limit. Nothing to do with competition. When a finish list is published it'd be nice if everyone had achieved  the same thing in the same manner.

Give over, did you get round? If so then just be happy for yourself, ffs. ::-)

Brakeless

  • Brakeless
Re: Support cars
« Reply #23 on: 09 August, 2017, 09:21:50 pm »
I don't understand what the OP means about a"level playing field".  Actually, I'm probably being disingenuous because I imagine what the OP means is that it's not a fair COMPETITION.  Really, it''s just you against the event.

That said, support cars caused a lot of praoblems at Eskdalemuir because they weren't supposed to be on that section of the route, as I understand it.  Disqualification of the rider is an obvious knee-jerk reaction but that would be hard on a rider who had no idea that his drugs bussupport team was transgressing.

It's certainly an issue that needs discussion and clarification, maybe even to the extent of a blanket ban - but rather from safety considerations than otherwise.

Peter

You imagine wrong! It's a challenge, it has rules, it has a time limit. Nothing to do with competition. When a finish list is published it'd be nice if everyone had achieved  the same thing in the same manner.

Give over, did you get round? If so then just be happy for yourself, ffs. ::-)



So sorry LMT. There's me thinking this is a forum to discuss things and air views. FFS  ::-)

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Support cars
« Reply #24 on: 09 August, 2017, 09:28:01 pm »
Just for comparison, PBP gives the rider a time penalty when their support crew infringes the route or other rules. Only repeated infringements DQ the rider.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...