[LEL17] 16:00 Starters

[Bolt]

As someone who chose and got a 16:00 start time I'm curious as to the plans of others who will also be leaving in the final wave. How many are planning to ride through the night as opposed to taking advantage of an early first night at Spalding?

My plan at the moment includes sleep stops at Spalding, Barnards Castle, Innerleithen, Coxwold and St Ives based on an overall average of 20kph. I've taken no account of what the closure times of these controls may be, accepting that my plan may not be perfect but blissful in it's ignorance.

[drgannet]

Yes, plan A is to ride through the first night at a very leisruely pace. It worked well on PBP. But if I find I am in need of a nap then there is the option of a sleep if needed. There's no rush!

[jiberjaber]

I have no plan at the moment other than rock up and start at 16:00... this is very unusual for me as I am a bit ocd about having a schedule.  I haven't even sorted my bag drops yet!

I was thinking about riding for as long as I can and getting my head down at where ever I feel sleepy, might be Thirsk or B/Castle but nothing firm yet.  Looking forward to getting the Fens done in the dark and hopefully the Humber Bridge at sunrise... so I guess that means I will be riding through the first night

[Greenbank]

As someone who chose and got a 16:00 start time I'm curious as to the plans of others who will also be leaving in the final wave. How many are planning to ride through the night as opposed to taking advantage of an early first night at Spalding?

My plan at the moment includes sleep stops at Spalding, Barnards Castle, Innerleithen, Coxwold and St Ives based on an overall average of 20kph. I've taken no account of what the closure times of these controls may be, accepting that my plan may not be perfect but blissful in it's ignorance.

[I'm not riding but...]

With a 16:00 start time and based on a minimum average speed taking into account the over distance aspect (1433km / 116h40) so this may not match what your brevet card will say but it's a rough guideline:-

Spalding closes at 4.56am
BC closes at 6.25am
Innerleithan closes at 4.53am
Coxwold closes at 2:57am (it's not a mandatory control but if you leave after this time you'll be behind minimum schedule)
St Ives closes at 2:53am

Those represent days of:-

159km, 313km, 276km, 271km, 294km and a final morning of 120km

So it's certainly doable although I don't like the look of those early starts from Coxwold or St Ives. Ideally you'd get one control ahead (from Eskdalemuir instead of Innerleithen) for:-

Spalding closes at 4.56am
BC closes at 6.25am
Eskdalemuir closes at 8.53am
Pock closes at 7.16am
Gt Easton closes at 8:45am

Giving days of: 159km, 313km, 325km, 275km, 313km and a final morning of 58km.

Riding through the first night? All depends on how you deal with that. Looking to stop around midnight Mon/Tue, so 32h from starting I'd be hoping to be at Brampton (554km) where I'd get a nice sleep (control would close at Tue 1.06pm for 16:00 starters). 554km at 20kph = 27.7h so that's 4.3h of stops/faffing/eating since starting. That's doable but would require some determination not to stop for too long at any controls. There are only 5 controls before Brampton (if you ignore Coxwold which is not mandatory and only 13km from Thirsk) so 4.3h still gives you 50 minutes at each of those controls (St Ives, Spalding, Louth, Pock, Thirsk).

Next day could be an 6am start and a 301km day back to Brampton (855km, control closes at Wed 1.36pm) but hopefully back by 1am or so. 15h of riding time at 20kph, so 3-4h of stop/faff/eat time. Again, 4 controls gives you ~50m at each control.

Then a 7am or 8am start for a 311km day to Louth (313km, control closes at Thu 3.05pm) again in by 2am/3am Thu. 15.5h riding time so 3.5h stop/faff/eat time.

That leaves Thursday and Friday up until 12.40pm to do the last 265km. No need for a plan for that, just ride and enjoy.

If you can maintain discipline at the controls (card stamped, bottles filled, eat, ablute, etc) and get back out on the road then you'll get more sleep. LEL'09 and PBP'11 I faffed too much at controls which ate into my sleeping time at the end of the days, still got round and had fun though.

[tippers_kiwi]

I am expecting to ride through the first night, I enjoy riding through the night but I will stop if I need sleep. Basically I am expecting to go control to control and decide if the next is possible to do. I very roughly put together a schedule which I think I can stick to but other than St Ives and London I'm not going to panic if I am outside of it. I would add not a lot of thought or logic went into it, much like I expect not much will stay the same while on the road

Moffat 625 km @ 40 hours
Pocklington 1,072 km @ 80 hours
St Ives 1,313 km @ 104 hours
London 1,433 km @ 114 hours

I fully expect I will sleep in some form along the way but those are the rough points I would like to hit in an ideal world.

[Fidgetbuzz]

Everybody's brevet card will contain correct control closing times allowing for both their individual start time and the overdistance  ie dividing the total distance by the total time,giving  a slightly faster minimum speed needed. If you do  not do that you end up with a silly speed needed from Gt Easton to the finish

[Karla]

When I started PBP in the second group at about 4:30pm, I might (but might not, I can't really remember) have caught a quick 15 minute kip over breakfast at Fougeres in the early morning, but that was all.  You shouldn't really be tired enough to sleep on the first night if you keep moving, your body will easily tolerate the lost sleep if you rest up beforehand, and you really want to build up a time buffer on the tailwind-ish northern leg before you start heading south into the headwind on the second half.

[psyclist]

I've got a couple of rides coming up where I have evening starts before riding through the night and the next day. I am going to use these to guide whether my current plan to ride through the first night is going to work for me.

All being good, as a minimum I will be aiming for Barnard Castle by the end of Monday. Possibly go further as a bonus, but a high level view of the UK tells me it starts getting more hilly after then, so better progress may be made by sleeping early and then making an early getaway. Then tentatively I'd look to reach one of the smaller controls after Edinburgh on Tuesday, Pocklington on Wednesday, and then either London during the night on Thursday, or have a quick sleep at St Ives (probably the latter).

In my broad planning to date I've played around with different places to stop for sleep. As long as the sleep stop is kept to a timetable (ie the total stop time being the same irrespective of what time you reach the control), it doesn't really make much difference whether to stop in the evening or during the night. I'm therefore planning to be flexible and take other considerations into account at the time, such as current speed, weather outlook, and if I'm riding with somebody at the time.

[Jabba]

I'll certainly be looking at riding through the 1st night. PBP works well for me doing this and in 2015 I stopped just before Carhaix at about 9pm getting a really good 6hrs+ before a leisurely breakfast and then onwards.

LEL may just be more of the same but as always my plans will be flexible based on weather, legs, and more especially state of mind at the time 

[vorsprung]

I am down for a 16:00 start

The initial plan is to ride through the night, have a short day time nap at 3pm ( about 15 minutes or so) then keep going until midnight or when I see a nice bed

Yes, that's 3pm not 3am.  I have a "double dip" in my sleepiness.  One at  3am in the middle of the night and one in the afternoon at 3pm.  Apparently this is normal for a lot of people

The planner says proper sleep stops at Moffat, Alston and Spalding but that's just a planner: don't believe the hype

I am thinking a single bag drop at Brampton

Not sure which bike to take.  I have a Genesis with nice disc brakes and wider tyres or a Specialized Roubaix that fits me slightly better.  Might put tribars on the Spesh, there are great bits of flat to get across

[Carlosfandango]

I have no plan at the moment other than rock up and start at 16:00... this is very unusual for me as I am a bit ocd about having a schedule.  I haven't even sorted my bag drops yet!

I was thinking about riding for as long as I can and getting my head down at where ever I feel sleepy, might be Thirsk or B/Castle but nothing firm yet.  Looking forward to getting the Fens done in the dark and hopefully the Humber Bridge at sunrise... so I guess that means I will be riding through the first night

Hey man, my laid back thinking must be rubbing off on you

[the straggler]

I have no plan at the moment other than rock up and start at 16:00... this is very unusual for me as I am a bit ocd about having a schedule.  I haven't even sorted my bag drops yet!

I was thinking about riding for as long as I can and getting my head down at where ever I feel sleepy, might be Thirsk or B/Castle but nothing firm yet.  Looking forward to getting the Fens done in the dark and hopefully the Humber Bridge at sunrise... so I guess that means I will be riding through the first night

Hey man, my laid back thinking must be rubbing off on you

any more laid back thinking ........ you'll end up riding a recumbent   

[Wobbly]

any more laid back thinking ........ you'll end up riding a recumbent   

Oi!

There's nowt wrong with that!

 

[inappropriate_bike]

If anyone wants some practice ridding through the night, then the Dunwich Dynamo is on the 8/9th July.  I've got a gpx file for a lovely detour on the return leg that stretches it out to a 400km DIY.

When I did that last year I took a quick nap in a field on the way back at about 300km/6am, then felt fine to push on again.  But I think everyone responds differently.

The hard bit of night riding for me always seems to be just before dawn when it's getting light but it hasn't warmed up enough to stop for a rest - tend to get the dozies quote badly.

[Phil W]

If you are East Anglia based then the Green and Yellow fields 300 or Cambridge East Anglia Tour 300 perm are good choices for overnight. Both have 24hr McDonalds enroute to see you through till morning.

[jayteezim]

as someone whose start time has had a 6hr45 min shift, i will now be starting at 15:45 and replanning. there was mention above that the control in spalding closes at about 4:56am(give or take) for a 16:00 start so 4:41am(give or take) for me. i realise this is the cut off for having the card stamped. so if i was to arrive at 1-2am have my card stamped and have a sleep/rest till 6-7am would food refreshments etc still be available when i get up? i guess this question could be applied to other controls especially on the way back. for earlier starters the answer is a definite yes as the control would be open for people starting after them.

[Bunker22]

as someone whose start time has had a 6hr45 min shift, i will now be starting at 15:45 and replanning. there was mention above that the control in spalding closes at about 4:56am(give or take) for a 16:00 start so 4:41am(give or take) for me. i realise this is the cut off for having the card stamped. so if i was to arrive at 1-2am have my card stamped and have a sleep/rest till 6-7am would food refreshments etc still be available when i get up? i guess this question could be applied to other controls especially on the way back. for earlier starters the answer is a definite yes as the control would be open for people starting after them.

TBH a 5-6 hour stop after 12 hours of riding would be decadent. If you are planning to arrive 1-2am at Spalding you will be banging against the time limits for the next 4 days. You are better off getting a decent cushion of time before a longer stop just for comfort sake.

[Bolt]

TBH a 5-6 hour stop after 12 hours of riding would be decadent. If you are planning to arrive 1-2am at Spalding you will be banging against the time limits for the next 4 days. You are better off getting a decent cushion of time before a longer stop just for comfort sake.

It would be decadent for sure and I know the temptation will be to press on and on if the Northbound conditions are good.   But, I'm interested in reducing fatigue as far as possible on the outbound leg in an attempt to maintain the "fun" on the return leg.  Time limits will be pressing but manageable with ~6hr buffer at a moving avg of 20kph.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Early on the going is flat and enthusiasm is high. Figure on a couple of kph quicker for the first day. It would be wise to pick up some time early on, to use as you wish later in the event.

[jayteezim]

I would prefer to rest/sleep every night from the beginning and if need be ride through Thursday night. That's why I asked about the times.

[Redlight]

I would prefer to rest/sleep every night from the beginning and if need be ride through Thursday night. That's why I asked about the times.

Given that you are towards the tail end of the start times, one (perhaps) disadvantage of that is that you may find yourself riding alone for much of the second day. I can't imagine many people will sleep on the first night, except perhaps for a catnap. As LWB says, most people are quite fired up at the beginning and the first couple of hundred km are pretty benign so energy levels are still quite high as night falls.  My own experience, on a 2.30pm start in 2009, was that the first time I started thinking about sleep was at about 10pm on the Monday night. By then I was at Alston so it made sense to rest for a couple of hours and then push on to Edinburgh for a decent sleep.

[Bolt]

I would prefer to rest/sleep every night from the beginning and if need be ride through Thursday night. That's why I asked about the times.

If like me you plan to stop at Spalding on the first night you might be at risk in departing from some subsequent controls as they are packing up, so the availability of breakfast may not be guaranteed.  Most late starters seem to be planning on cycling through the first night to build up a good time buffer early on.

[Karla]

TBH a 5-6 hour stop after 12 hours of riding would be decadent. If you are planning to arrive 1-2am at Spalding you will be banging against the time limits for the next 4 days. You are better off getting a decent cushion of time before a longer stop just for comfort sake.

It would be decadent for sure and I know the temptation will be to press on and on if the Northbound conditions are good.   But, I'm interested in reducing fatigue as far as possible on the outbound leg in an attempt to maintain the "fun" on the return leg.  Time limits will be pressing but manageable with ~6hr buffer at a moving avg of 20kph.

The fun will be significantly reduced if you have the stress of pushing up against the time buffer the whole ride long. 

You're only going to get slower as the days go by, so planning to be nearly out of time so near the start is a bad idea.

[Bolt]

Given that you are towards the tail end of the start times, one (perhaps) disadvantage of that is that you may find yourself riding alone for much of the second day.

Very true and one that has prompted me to install a Bluetooth speaker on my bike to keep me entertained in the absence of other riders

[Bolt]

The fun will be significantly reduced if you have the stress of pushing up against the time buffer the whole ride long. 
You're only going to get slower as the days go by, so planning to be nearly out of time so near the start is a bad idea.

But surely drawing on more reserves early on will leave less in the tank for the later stages and if you haven't got a massive tank to start with then this could be a real consideration?  Luckily I don't get stressed, it's blind faith for me every time