Is an SR series without a 400 really an SR series?

[D.A.L.E.]

Well, yes. Yes, it is.

But is it really?

Current quandary; I'm officially SR for the 2018 season. I've ridden Deanos Peculier Old 200, the Snow Roads 300, the Three Steps to Severn 600 and the Mille Cymru 1000. But, for me anyway, the 400 is the most difficult distance and it just doesn't feel right to have not completed one towards the SR.

Anyone else been in this pickle? Justify me YACF, so I don't have to ride the dreaded DIY400...

[quixoticgeek]

ECE a 300 calendar?

It's my aim for getting the 400 this year. Tho admittedly that's more because the trains are crap on this ride, and I don't want to fork out for a 2nd night in a hotel...

J

[jiberjaber]

I've done similar to avoid a 600 (LEL) or a 300 (400 replaced) so I wouldn't sweat it bud!

However - if it is really nagging you, then knock one out while the weather is still fine 

[D.A.L.E.]

I've done similar to avoid a 600 (LEL) or a 300 (400 replaced) so I wouldn't sweat it bud!

However - if it is really nagging you, then knock one out while the weather is still fine 

Deano keeps sending me 400s to routecheck 

Weird feeling though; the 600 was a legit 600 and the Mille Cymru was bastard tough, but neither came close to how tough I found the last 400 I did.

[jiberjaber]

I've done similar to avoid a 600 (LEL) or a 300 (400 replaced) so I wouldn't sweat it bud!

However - if it is really nagging you, then knock one out while the weather is still fine 

Deano keeps sending me 400s to routecheck 

Weird feeling though; the 600 was a legit 600 and the Mille Cymru was bastard tough, but neither came close to how tough I found the last 400 I did.

With all them km under your belt I am sure it will be different now!

[Paul H]

I don't get this 400s are harder thing, you rode 400 then instead of going to bed you rode another 200, how's that easier?
I ask as someone who's done a few 400s and failed to finish a couple of 600s...

[Greenbank]

I don't get this 400s are harder thing, you rode 400 then instead of going to bed you rode another 200, how's that easier?

Maybe they didn't. Maybe they rode a 300, went to bed, then rode another 300.

400s may be the hardest distance but I don't think they're way harder than the next hardest distance, only marginally, and every ride is different. A relatively flat 400 is certainly easier than a very lumpy 600.

To answer the original question. Yes, an SR series without a 400 is an SR series. It'd be quite an extreme purist view to say it wasn't.

[D.A.L.E.]

I don't get this 400s are harder thing, you rode 400 then instead of going to bed you rode another 200, how's that easier?
I ask as someone who's done a few 400s and failed to finish a couple of 600s...

Because you (or at least I) don't. You (I) ride 300-350km then go to kip for a bit.

It's interesting though: I've just looked at all my >400km rides and I've completed the first 400km way inside the time limits of a 400 on all of 'em. But on actual 400s it always feels like a case of being up against it, of not having time to sleep or rest, pushed on and then really struggled. Maybe it's a psychological thing.

[psyclist]

To answer the original question. Yes, an SR series without a 400 is an SR series. It'd be quite an extreme purist view to say it wasn't.

Or you are ACP with their Randonneur 10000 rules, which include the need to complete:

2 full series of ACP brevets (200, 300, 400, 600 and 1000 km) - Longer brevets cannot be substituted for shorter ones

So if you think you might at some stage go for that award, having got a 1000km ride in this year, you might want to get a BRM 400 in, although I'm not sure there are any planned in the calendar. It also assumes you have BRMs for all the other distances.

[Graeme]

Add a 400 Dale. Just do it.

http://www.aukweb.net/results/detail/this/r2500/

Randonneur 2500 in 2018 awaits.
G.

[citoyen]

Anyone else been in this pickle?

Yep. I'm in exactly the same boat - or will be once I've ridden the Fenland Friends 600 in a couple of weeks time (different rides but same combination of distances).

Substituting a 400 for a 1000 may be fucking hardcore, but it ain't right.

[mattc]

I don't get this 400s are harder thing, you rode 400 then instead of going to bed you rode another 200, how's that easier?
I ask as someone who's done a few 400s and failed to finish a couple of 600s...

In principle you are completely right:

the problem is that UK calendar rides include:
- lots of 400s that are harder than they need to be, and
- lots of 600s that are made as easy as possible.

By which I mean: sensible sleep stops, and in a season with generally better weather, and when riders are fitter than earlier in the year.

So Yes: riders will tend to find UK calendar 400s quite difficult!

It's bizarre, but that's how it is ... 

[D.A.L.E.]

Substituting a 400 for a 1000 may be fucking hardcore, but it ain't right.

Tru dat.

[Wycombewheeler]

Well, yes. Yes, it is.

But is it really?

Current quandary; I'm officially SR for the 2018 season. I've ridden Deanos Peculier Old 200, the Snow Roads 300, the Three Steps to Severn 600 and the Mille Cymru 1000. But, for me anyway, the 400 is the most difficult distance and it just doesn't feel right to have not completed one towards the SR.

Anyone else been in this pickle? Justify me YACF, so I don't have to ride the dreaded DIY400...

While many 600s might be easier than a 400, the mill cymru is clearly not. You have definitely not taken an easy option. But you knew that surely, so presumably are just fishing.

[Wycombewheeler]

I don't get this 400s are harder thing, you rode 400 then instead of going to bed you rode another 200, how's that easier?
I ask as someone who's done a few 400s and failed to finish a couple of 600s...

My recollection of a 600 is riding for 350km, sleeping for 6 hours then riding 250km. While on a 400 I finished 22 hours after starting. So much harder.

[zigzag]

I don't get this 400s are harder thing, you rode 400 then instead of going to bed you rode another 200, how's that easier?
I ask as someone who's done a few 400s and failed to finish a couple of 600s...

i also share the same view - how can a longer distance be easier? there was no single 600 that was easier than a 400 in my several years of sr's.

[Wycombewheeler]

I don't get this 400s are harder thing, you rode 400 then instead of going to bed you rode another 200, how's that easier?
I ask as someone who's done a few 400s and failed to finish a couple of 600s...

Because you (or at least I) don't. You (I) ride 300-350km then go to kip for a bit.

It's interesting though: I've just looked at all my >400km rides and I've completed the first 400km way inside the time limits of a 400 on all of 'em. But on actual 400s it always feels like a case of being up against it, of not having time to sleep or rest, pushed on and then really struggled. Maybe it's a psychological thing.

Me too. On BCM I made Dolgellau in 25.5 hours and on rondon Luxembourg I made it to 436km in the same time. Having slept on both.
So i guess I could do a 400 with a sleep but it just doesn't seem worth stopping and paying for sleep 60-80km from the finish

[Wycombewheeler]

I don't get this 400s are harder thing, you rode 400 then instead of going to bed you rode another 200, how's that easier?
I ask as someone who's done a few 400s and failed to finish a couple of 600s...

i also share the same view - how can a longer distance be easier? there was no single 600 that was easier than a 400 in my several years of sr's.

Bryan Chapman easier than brevet cymru. No doubt in my mind.

[hellymedic]

I found 600s easier than 400s even though I was never fast enough for any significant sleep stop.

Starting at daybreak suited me and somehow my circadian rhythm was maintained.

[Somnolent]

I don't get this 400s are harder thing, you rode 400 then instead of going to bed you rode another 200, how's that easier?
I ask as someone who's done a few 400s and failed to finish a couple of 600s...

i also share the same view - how can a longer distance be easier? there was no single 600 that was easier than a 400 in my several years of sr's.

Bryan Chapman easier than brevet cymru. No doubt in my mind.

Suppose it depends on your definition of "easier".  I've never really thought of the comparison in those terms, but having done both rides more than a few times, I usually got back to Kings (~400km into the BCM) in around 22 hours, but never finished BC400 in less than 23 hours - and often 25 hours plus (mattc was to blame for one of those  )   Not sure if it is down to more stops, more queues at those stops, or more hills.

 

[Whitedown Man]

Yep, me too - though this year’s SR was 6 + 4 + 3 + 2 that was only because the quantity of weekend working this year prevented me riding two 6s - I hate hate hate 400s - would much prefer to do two 6s than a 6 and a 4.

[mattc]

Bryan Chapman easier than brevet cymru. No doubt in my mind.

They're differnt routes, aren't they?

Comparing welsh apples with welsh oranges [and/or any Herefordshire apples that may creep in ...]

[Wycombewheeler]

Bryan Chapman easier than brevet cymru. No doubt in my mind.

They're differnt routes, aren't they?

Comparing welsh apples with welsh oranges [and/or any Herefordshire apples that may creep in ...]

yes they are, but I also found the lwl/severn across harder than BCM, i didn't get round a 600 this year, so I only have one 600 to benchmark against

[Bairn Again]

Well, yes. Yes, it is.

But is it really?

Current quandary; I'm officially SR for the 2018 season. I've ridden Deanos Peculier Old 200, the Snow Roads 300, the Three Steps to Severn 600 and the Mille Cymru 1000. But, for me anyway, the 400 is the most difficult distance and it just doesn't feel right to have not completed one towards the SR.

Anyone else been in this pickle? Justify me YACF, so I don't have to ride the dreaded DIY400...

If its allowed under the rules, then youre good.  I <think> that the only year I did a UR flavoured SR series I didn't do a 400 (maybe it was a 300) and it didn't feel any less of an SR.

I think that consideration about not doing a x00 while the broader SR is already valid is unnecessary.   

I too find 400s the hardest but have mitigated this by doing DIYs that suit me eg flatter than calendar events or change of timing (6am starts for a 400 don't suit me well).   

Or flipping it round, my SR this year featured the Southern Uplands 400 which I found very hard but my SR this year is any more worthy than in any of the previous 13.

Sounds like somebody building a business case to get a pass from their other half to go cycling again.....
 

[j_a_m_e_s_]

I've only ridden Porkers and Brimstone, but Porkers was a doddle compared. I stilll don't know if it was lack of sleep the night before or not (two hours before start and 35mins during ride) but I suffered badly on the 600. Came in with less than 30mins to spare, whereas I had a few hours on the 400.

I can see the logic as to why 4 is harder than 6, but I was wrecked after my 600. Absolutely wrecked.

But on topic - if your results say SR, then you got you're SR. (But I've put off riding any 300 after my ill fated Dean attempt earlier on untill I'd done Hardboiled because I only wanted a Wessex SR - so get out and do a 400)