'DIY by GPS' route creation query...

[mmmmartin]

Come off it Lars, you're just making more work for the org. You can just ask an org if a row is ok, then when you want to ride it just drop them a text/email saying you're going to do it. One auk in the south-east has been known to put on here a new thread saying he's about to leave home to ride a perm, which is pretty public. You could do that. It's a very good system I think. Although in the end I did decide it was a lot easier to just buy some perm cards and ride a perm, because the route had been worked out by someone else years ago and that was a lot less trouble. I found it quite difficult to come up with a better route than some of the El Supremo perms.

[Lars]

Come off it Lars, you're just making more work for the org. You can just ask an org if a row is ok, then when you want to ride it just drop them a text/email saying you're going to do it. One auk in the south-east has been known to put on here a new thread saying he's about to leave home to ride a perm, which is pretty public. You could do that. It's a very good system I think. Although in the end I did decide it was a lot easier to just buy some perm cards and ride a perm, because the route had been worked out by someone else years ago and that was a lot less trouble. I found it quite difficult to come up with a better route than some of the El Supremo perms.

Why would it be more work for the org? The route must be checked and approved regardless
of whenever the ride happens. So no extra work for the org. And when he receives a mail with
a GPX log he just needs to check "has there been an entry submitted from this rider for this route"
rather than "has there been an entry submitted from this rider for this route on this date".

[Cycling Daddy]

As I understand it this is all about saying what you are going to try for before you set out.  SO tomorrow I am doing a DIY by GPS (to Marsh Gibbon as it happens )  I might make it I might not, since there is a lot of  navigation and route checking to do.  If I could claim subsequently I cold just not claim if I missed my target.  That is not an AUdax at all as I understand it.
L

[Lars]

To clarify - I do not suggest being allowed to re-allocating a new route to a card once
a ride has been entered for it. That would be an unacceptable pain for the org of course.

[Chris S]

Lars. It's all about checking what you say beforehand with what you submit after.

(Leaving aside n00b issues here - I know you know what it's all about.)

You submit a form before you ride. Assuming it's for a route you're not expecting me to pre-check, I don't care - you submit the form saying, in effect, "I'm going to ride this now/when advised". If I'm lucky, you've put a link to your route on the entry form.

You do the ride, you send me an email. (Rider emails are great - it connects me with those rides that are going on all over the place, and that's brill.) I compare your track with your original intentions, which - if you've submitted a Googlemaps link to your original shortest-distance route, is really easy.

I validate your ride, or email you because I can't on the face of it validate immediately, for whatever reason, and want more info.

ETA: Resuse of a brevet: We've been here before. It's up to the org who sold you the brevet - but speaking personally, I'll allow brevet reuse if:

You DNF/DNS through safety reasons - including weather related reasons such as ice, tornadoes, plague of frogs.
You DNF/DNS through illness - "Once I'd thrown up for the third time Chris, I decided to head home..."

Emails saying "I woke up, and it was dark Chris, so I went back to bed and didn't ride" will result in a "There there" email and the brevet is Most Definitely consumed

[Lars]

Lars. It's all about checking what you say beforehand with what you submit after.

(Leaving aside n00b issues here - I know you know what it's all about.)

You submit a form before you ride. Assuming it's for a route you're not expecting me to pre-check, I don't care - you submit the form saying, in effect, "I'm going to ride this now/when advised". If I'm lucky, you've put a link to your route on the entry form.

You do the ride, you send me an email. (Rider emails are great - it connects me with those rides that are going on all over the place, and that's brill.) I compare your track with your original intentions, which - if you've submitted a Googlemaps link to your original shortest-distance route, is really easy.

I validate your ride, or email you because I can't on the face of it validate immediately, for whatever reason, and want more info.

ETA: Resuse of a brevet: We've been here before. It's up to the org who sold you the brevet - but speaking personally, I'll allow brevet reuse if:

You DNF/DNS through safety reasons - including weather related reasons such as ice, tornadoes, plague of frogs.
You DNF/DNS through illness - "Once I'd thrown up for the third time Chris, I decided to head home..."

Emails saying "I woke up, and it was dark Chris, so I went back to bed and didn't ride" will result in a "There there" email and the brevet is Most Definitely consumed

Guess it just comes down to how you look upon Audax and perms. Since they are just non-competitive personal challenges
I just think the flexibility perms could allow with a simpler "enter a ride and do it whenever you wish" rule would be a good
thing, both for the rider (flexibility) and org (less housekeeping of date details and no judging of reschedule excuses).

[Ningishzidda]

Move it to outside Cathy's sandwich bar.

[Bobby]

I love DIY by GPS - one follow on question is how much flexibility there is on exactly how close you should pass a control... Should I be within 1m? 10m? 100m? More?

I've only DNFd one ride so it didn't matter in the end, but on that ride my actual control was on a spot of closed road... I got within about 300m, took a photo of the closure, but then had to divert.  I'm sure Paul would have been ok with the evidence but I does make me wonder if there is any rule of thumb?

[notlobgp14]

I love DIY by GPS - one follow on question is how much flexibility there is on exactly how close you should pass a control... Should I be within 1m? 10m? 100m? More?

I think it should depend on how the Control is defined by the rider.  If the Control is a road junction eg A49 /A6 south of Preston, there is only one place it can be, also the co-ordinates will pin point it.

If you say that the Control is Preston, then pass through the town centre ish.  I mentioned the Tangent 'rule' up thread.

If you were to do the same ride on a Paper Brevet think how you would prove that you'd been to Preston, cafe reciept, bank slip or any reciept with the address Preston.  It's no different for GPS.

Were you to state an actual establishment in a town as the Control, you are tied down to going there; if it's closed, start to worry.

[Ningishzidda]

In the old days, before GPS, bike computers or electronic cash registers, for controls on a Perm, one would require the rubber stamp at a Post Office, or a stamp from the Police Station.

For a DIY by GPS, locating controls in towns could be the Post Office or Police Station.

[frankly frankie]

When I rode an End-to-End at randonneur speed (long time ago!) I got police station stamps all the way.
'Interesting' ones included Bristol city centre, at midnight on a Friday 
and some remote place on the Scottish N-E coast where the police station was a humble-looking semi with a blue light-bulb over the door.  It was 2 am.  They were the biggest pair of pyjama trousers I've ever seen 
He must have rung ahead because when I got to Wick police station they had breakfast ready for me. 

[tonyh]

For a DIY by GPS, locating controls in towns could be the Post Office or Police Station.

Certainly. But with GPS you can put your controls anywhere that improves your ride (send a Googlemaps link with your entry, showing exactly where you've put them).

[Cue remarks about falling standards?]

Anyway, Police Stations sound very much more exciting!

[spokenword]

Spokenword:

I don't know if you can work it in the way you say, but you can probably* send in the form with a way-ahead date for your ride (eg 31/12/15)(it won't let you leave it blank or "to be notified"), and then send a brief "doing my xxxx ride tomorrow/today" when you decide to go.

*check with your organiser to be sure it's ok. If your org is me, it is!

Rabbit:
Same here, in spite of the advantages of GPS controls. About 9 extra km of pleasure on Tuesday's 200, when but for a couple of diversions, and acting on whims, it might have been only a couple.

Thanks for the advice Tony H, I've just checked but none of the route quite goes into your area but stays within the Midlands so I'll check with the very amenable Mr Smith.

[vistaed]

Quick question. Is there a maximum distance for a DIY by GPS? Got a little project in the planning that might end up being a tad long.

[L CC]

Yes and no. It may be that you have to set it up as a permanent. Discuss with your usual DIY man.

[Chris S]

Quick question. Is there a maximum distance for a DIY by GPS? Got a little project in the planning that might end up being a tad long.

Recently asked question, as it happens - one more and it might qualify as a FAQ!

I can validate up to 1000km as it stands. Any more, and all I (and same applies to other orgs) need to do is some additional admin to set the distance up as a DIY. No maximum as such.

[Martin]

when I was a DIY org I had to request a 1200 be set up for a couple of keen riders who wanted to do both versions of a certain French ride...

so yes it's possible but I think only in 100km increments above 1000, it might be limited to 600 1200 1000 1400 1500 and 1600

I get some very wacky ECE requests, 2300 total being one 

 Wouldn't it make sense to change the rules to either:

- entry must be submitted, say, five days in advance. If ride isn't completed it's a DNS or DNF.
- entry is for a specified route ridden whenever the rider wishes to ride.

Lars, no problem with submitting the DIY / ECE entry as you are about to roll out of the door for my ECE's and some other DIY orgs but it's the riders responsibility to check the distance between controls is up to scratch beforehand

the date of the ride has to be specified in advance for insurance purposes as you are only covered for the day you specify

[Aunt Maud]

Are you doing DIY by GPS as well as ECE now Martin ?

[Martin]

Are you doing DIY by GPS as well as ECE now Martin ?

no but I used to do DIYs; had to give it up as I already had a day job

[LittleWheelsandBig]

when I was a DIY org I had to request a 1200 be set up for a couple of keen riders who wanted to do both versions of a certain French ride...

To be accurate, only for one rider.

[vistaed]

I've never actually done a DIY, so don't know my organiser, but it's Chris Smith. How do you go about setting up a perm and getting it listed? And can your own perms be validated by GPS if someone else rides it or is it only a GPX perm organiser that validate them? Questions, questions

[Manotea]

To set up a listed Perm contact the Perms Sec who will send you a form. Validation by GPS is mostly restricted to DIY orgs right now.

[vistaed]

To set up a listed Perm contact the Perms Sec who will send you a form. Validation by GPS is mostly restricted to DIY orgs right now.

Thanks for that, and I like the optimistic use of "right now"

[Martin]

To set up a listed Perm contact the Perms Sec who will send you a form. Validation by GPS is mostly restricted to DIY orgs right now.

Thanks for that, and I like the optimistic use of "right now"

quite a few traditional perms can now be validated by GPS, but I assume the organiser has to agree to this and possess the required AUK software

[Aunt Maud]

ETA: Resuse of a brevet: We've been here before. It's up to the org who sold you the brevet - but speaking personally, I'll allow brevet reuse if:

You DNF/DNS through safety reasons - including weather related reasons such as ice, tornadoes, plague of frogs.
You DNF/DNS through illness - "Once I'd thrown up for the third time Chris, I decided to head home..."

Emails saying "I woke up, and it was dark Chris, so I went back to bed and didn't ride" will result in a "There there" email and the brevet is Most Definitely consumed

There's a big difference then in what's viewed as a DNF, which seems to depend on the whim of the organiser on the day. I always thought that if you didn't finish the ride or were out of time, regardless of why, it was a DNF and the brevet was used.

I find it strange that despite the plethora of rules that AUK has put in place, DNF is allowed to be approached in such a different way depending on who sold you the brevet.

It's not a critique of the way you handle a DNF, by the way Chris, but of the system.

For example,

You get put in an ambulance by a psychopathic motorist........It's a DNF  (Org X's brevet)

There's a bit of ice on a winter ride and you bail............It's not a DNF    (Org Y's brevet)