Author Topic: Advice for riding a 600  (Read 9871 times)

The Solo Socialist

  • Age Is Just A Number Just Wish By Body Agreed
  • Age but a number,which grows ever larger.
Advice for riding a 600
« on: 09 March, 2016, 09:09:41 am »
I'm a relative newby, so advice please?
What apart from the usual tools, puncture / spare tubes etc!
What would you carry as a minimum, for relative comfort and aid to completion within the time limits?
Boots an Spurs

Chris S

Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #1 on: 09 March, 2016, 09:32:43 am »
1. Build up using 200/300s then ride a couple of 400s such that you can finish reasonably comfortably in 20 hours (or better).

2. Do one or two back to back 200/300s (Saturday/Sunday) to get used to that "Sunday Feeling".

3. Combine the two - ride the first 400 of the 600 in 20 hours (or better), have lots of sleep, ride the remaining 200 on Sunday, in whatever time you have left.

Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #2 on: 09 March, 2016, 09:48:05 am »
Good advice, but don't be concerned if you are fuller value for a 400 than 20 hours. My average 400 time is 23 hours but I'm still able to complete 600s well within the time limit. It just means a different sleep strategy than a faster rider's.

You'll get lots of good advice both on here and out on the road, but most of it will boil down to: ride / test / learn / repeat.
Eddington Number = 132

Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #3 on: 09 March, 2016, 10:02:26 am »
As a professional Lanterne Rouge rider I do not have the luxury of six hours sleep in a Travelodge, but what I do is try to buy time in the first 300, say 16-18 hours, which leaves 22-24 hours to do the second 300, which includes sleep, change of clothing etc. My 400 time is 24 hours, leaving a 16 hour 200

You can then take more breaks if you get tired later on and not worry about time limits. As with most riders sleep comes around 350 - 400, depends how fast you are.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
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Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #4 on: 09 March, 2016, 10:11:56 am »
What would you carry as a minimum, for relative comfort and aid to completion within the time limits?

It's an irony - not just in randonneuring but in any activity that combines endurance with self-sufficiency - that the further you go the more weight you carry.  So your bag for a 600 will be heavier than it would be for a 300 for example.  The ultimate was Ranulph Feinnes, packing his sled for his trans-Antarctic trek, then realising it was so heavy he couldn't actually move it however hard he pulled.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #5 on: 09 March, 2016, 10:16:14 am »
Ameans of accessing railway timetables; not defeatist, just a comfort blanket!

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
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Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #6 on: 09 March, 2016, 10:25:19 am »
I'm a relative newby, so advice please?
What apart from the usual tools, puncture / spare tubes etc!
What would you carry as a minimum, for relative comfort and aid to completion within the time limits?

For any overnight ride I carry warm extras — wind proof as well as waterproof, which can be used together; reflective gilet, which can be used on top; long-sleeve base layer; snood/Buff; long-finger gloves; warm hat.  It can get surprisingly cold at night, even in the middle of summer, especially if you've been sweating all day.  I usually mention Green & Yellow Fields 300 back in 2013 — we were forecast +2ºC, but we were delivered -5ºC instead — there were a lot of VERY cold riders in little more than summer wear.  My bidons and brakes all froze up for a while!

It helps to have spare food with you at night when shops are shut.  I make sure I've got some happy sweets and perhaps a couple of fruit bars.  You shouldn't need much, just some glucose to keep the fat-burn ticking over.

Routesheet and headtorch — you'll want to experience your Garmin dying on you in the middle of nowhere at spooky-o'clock only once and once only — a headtorch and routesheet can keep you in the game until you can sort the electronicals out.  I tend to carry a map as well — some pages torn from an old Bart road atlas should be fine, just in case.

I carry just two spare tubes on a normal, everyday ride, plus a full tube-repair kit (of the old-school variety).  For very long rides I often include a third tube, just in case — I've rarely needed one, and never needed two on the same ride, but the chance increases with distance.  All the other tools and spares are the same on all rides.  And I always have a small bottle of chain lube, some riders only take it with them for longer rides, but well worth having, particularly if it rains.  On pumps:  CO2 is great if you're in a race, but rubbish if you are stricken with half a dozen punctures on a ride (I know riders to whom this has happened); if you insist on taking CO2, then take a pocket-pump too.  These days I don't bother with the CO2 as it's dead-weight and I just take the pump.

Definitely take waterproofs — in 40 hours the weather can change significantly from the forecast.

For multi-day rides I carry an inflatable pillow and a bivi bag — any orange survival bag would do as well.  I can sleep just about anywhere, depending on temperature — I find sleep the hardest thing to manage, so if I feel sleepy then I try to sleep then and there.  I'm a pillow-person: I can't sleep on my back, so I need a pillow to support my neck;  then again, sleeping with my helmet on helps to keep my neck straight for an hour or so, but it's not comfortable.

A sense of humour helps, too.

Once you've experienced a few 400s and 600s then you'll work out what you need.
Lockdown lethargy. RRTY: wot's that? Can't remember if I'm on #8 or #9 ...

JayP

  • You must be joking
Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #7 on: 09 March, 2016, 10:30:06 am »
Choosing your first 600  it's worth noting the difference between BRM an BR.  A BRM 600 is 40 hrs - end of- even if its actually 620 on the road. A BR allows extra time for over distance. BR's also permit a 14.3 km/h lower average speed ( Although that may change in the near future - which would be a pity). For instance a 612km BR 600 with 14.3 lower ave' speed gets 42hours 50 mins. An extra three hours nearly - very useful.
By a strange coincidence ;) ;D I'm organising a 612km BR with  14.3 low speed and a sleep control at 350km  this year. www.tinyurl.com/nbxf7l7


The Solo Socialist

  • Age Is Just A Number Just Wish By Body Agreed
  • Age but a number,which grows ever larger.
Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #8 on: 09 March, 2016, 11:15:56 am »
Thanks to all replies, just looked at your 600 Jayp looks good to me. Next step book accommodation for start night!
Boots an Spurs

Pete Mas

  • Don't Worry 'bout a thing...
Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #9 on: 09 March, 2016, 11:48:35 am »
I also hope to ride JayP's 600, as I'm looking for something new for my 600 this year. The extra time may be useful as I've not had time for any special training this winter just passed.
''It is better to travel hopefully than to arrive."

R.L.Stevenson

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #10 on: 09 March, 2016, 11:56:23 am »
Wow, that looks an excellent 600 Jay - tell me you're going to keep that going - I am unable to ride it this year :-(
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #11 on: 09 March, 2016, 12:36:25 pm »
Consider 'personal hygiene' toiletries for use on the second morning (and at other times)
Clean teeth, saddle area, shorts and face can refresh your morale!

Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #12 on: 09 March, 2016, 12:45:54 pm »
About the only extra I carry for a 600 is a toothbrush. 

The ultimate was Ranulph Feinnes, packing his sled for his trans-Antarctic trek, then realising it was so heavy he couldn't actually move it however hard he pulled.
Even your average cyclist is not as dim as RF.

Pete Mas

  • Don't Worry 'bout a thing...
Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #13 on: 09 March, 2016, 12:49:25 pm »
My tip for a 600 (or any overnight ride) is:-

As far as possible relax and get as much sleep as possible in the week before the event. I find it makes all the difference to my enjoyment of an overnight ride if I'm not sleep-deprived at the start.
''It is better to travel hopefully than to arrive."

R.L.Stevenson

Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #14 on: 09 March, 2016, 01:06:49 pm »
Sleep as well as you can the night before. Don't do any riding for 2/3 days beforehand. Look at the map and determine where you want to be at the end of the same day so you can maximise your sleep patterns. DON'T faff at teh control points. Eat, refill, say bye and be on your way. this is important for me because then you're not rushing to make up time lost by staying too long at a control point so less energy is spent and a nice even tempo can be maintained.

Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #15 on: 09 March, 2016, 01:39:32 pm »
I`ve ridden but two 600s but my thoughts are; break it down into manageable sections mentally, ie to next control, now I`m a third, halfway type approach. Put together a realistic schedule, don`t race off at start, ride at own pace as much as possible, recognise there will be bad patches, don`t keep going when feeling low on energy / hungry>>  eat / feed well so as to avoid this. 

I`ve carried a bivvi bag and thermarest and got a couple hours sleep when I wanted to ----I found this flexibility to work for me, YMMV
....after the `tarte de pommes`, and  fortified by a couple of shots of limoncellos,  I flew up the Col de Bavella whilst thunderstorms rolled around the peaks above

Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #16 on: 09 March, 2016, 02:24:52 pm »
For me, a bar bag made a huge difference. Perfect for carrying Snacks, Wallet, Phone, batterypack, brevet Card, Camera stripped off Arm warmers and more than I could ever imagine it would carry. It massively reduced my Faff time.

Spares wise outside the usual puncture stuff and a multi tool I have had rides saved by Quick Links Zip Ties.

The one thing I learned on my first 600 is if you don't faff you should have enough time in hand not to panic when something does go wrong.

If it is sunny and you have some time in hand stop somewhere quiet and lie down under  a tree for a bit....it's magic!



hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #17 on: 09 March, 2016, 02:39:00 pm »
As others have said, don't faff.

Make a mental list of what you'll need to do at a control, do it (vary the order so you don't waste time queuing) and go.

Almost any task is quicker and more efficient at a control than on the road so toilet, feed, refill bottles, buy food for the road, rest, adjust clothes and light at the control.
Then MOVE!

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #18 on: 09 March, 2016, 03:16:22 pm »
I am interested in the spare tube strategies most employ.  On a longer ride (100km to 100miles ish) I tend to carry two tubes just in case.  I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to use even a single tube.  I've never had to use two tubes.

Has anyone genuinely required the use of three tubes, repair kit, spare tyre?

My overall spare tube usage is way less than one per 600km on average.
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #19 on: 09 March, 2016, 03:23:38 pm »
I carry 2 tubes in a small saddlebag on 200s and 300s.  On 400s and above I swap out the saddlebag for a Carradice Super C, and take advantage of the extra space by carrying 4 tubes (after all, the weight is negligible).  I've never needed more than 2, but nevertheless it's reassuring to know they're there given the night riding involved in 400s / 600s / etc.
Eddington Number = 132

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #20 on: 09 March, 2016, 03:34:31 pm »
Has anyone genuinely required the use of three tubes, repair kit, spare tyre?

I have heard tales.  Some of them no doubt tall ones, but there are people who've nearly run out of fingers when counting the number of flats they've had on a longer ride.

2 and a patch kit and you're good to go - that covers you for everything.  1 tube and a kit if you're travelling minimally and you generally do not get flats (i.e. anyone sub 60kg).  If you are getting lots of punctures, get better/new tyres.

I've had very few punctures ever, riding Audax or otherwise, however, I have had to patch tubes on a ride during a phase of riding the least Audax suitable tyres ever (Open Pave - fecking awful for flats, amazing for speed and comfort!) when I had a couple of flats in the first 20-30km after the turn on LEL. 
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #21 on: 09 March, 2016, 03:38:41 pm »
On a longer ride, two tubes plus a repair kit. I've had at least a couple of events when I've lost both tubes at the same time.

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
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Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #22 on: 09 March, 2016, 03:49:51 pm »
Has anyone genuinely required the use of three tubes, repair kit, spare tyre?


Yes, but the puncture fairy doesn't care if you are on a 600

Rides where I've used all the tubes up were
1) 400 in Wales
2) 400 in Devon
3) another 400 in Devon
4) 50 miles riding back home across Exmoor
5) Mille Cymru

On most outings I carry a puncture repair kit and a single spare tube.  On most of the above I was carrying two tubes or more but it didn't help
The causes of the above were
1) crap tyres.  Low mileage, they looked ok but prone to punctures
2) crap tyres.  Low mileage, they looked ok but prone to punctures
3) ran over something to do a F+R puncture in dark
4) damaged tyre, had to boot it
5) needed new rim tape

The point I'm trying to make is that the number of spare tubes on a 600 is irrelevant

If you ride a 600 all in one go without stopping (some people do) then it's like a 400 or 300 in that it is a long ride.  As with any ride, the longer the ride the more clothes are required

If you are going to have a sleep stop on a 600 then this becomes of vital strategic importance.  The questions are  "Where?  How long for?  When?" Figure these things out before the ride.  That's about the only big difference I can think of

Wycombewheeler

  • PBP-2019 LEL-2022
Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #23 on: 09 March, 2016, 05:28:29 pm »
  I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to use even a single tube.  I've never had to use two tubes.

Has anyone genuinely required the use of three tubes, repair kit, spare tyre?


I can think of 3 occasions where I have had two punctures on a ride
1)  2nd tube punctured on fitting, either I didn't find the sharp object or I pinch punctured it in fitting. cue 2 mile walk to Halfords halfway through my ride from Bristol to Wycombe (out with a single tube)
2) somewhere in surrey, again caught out with single tube (after months without a puncture)  5 mile walk
3) one front, one back, close enough to home to cruise the last bit.

I've never had 3 punctures, and I never have two when I am carrying two tubes.  Now I carry two tubes and patches just to be sure.  I also carry a pump rather than CO2, because if you have a slow puncture, a pump will get you there, but CO2 is one use.

Seriously considering putting stans tubeless sealant in my inner tubes, tiny additional weight in the inner tube is irrelevant compared to not having to fix a flat in the cold and dark by the side of a road miles from anywhere.

Good points made above about sleep strategy, I couldn't imagine doing 600k without sleep.

Eddington  127miles, 170km

Re: Advice for riding a 600
« Reply #24 on: 09 March, 2016, 06:00:47 pm »
I carry a lot less on a 600 now than I did when I first started, you'll naturally adjust things as you do more and more riding. As the saying goes:-

Quote
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.

But mostly because I'm less concerned about a DNF now than I was when I first started Audaxing; at first I didn't want anything to happen to stop me from finishing.

I took a crank puller on my first 200 because I'd put a new chainset on the night before and was worried I'd need to pull it and refit it if something went wrong (it didn't).

I've never needed the spoke key I've always carried, but I did lend it to someone who did needed it.

My chain tool has seen more use on other people's chains during Audaxes than it has on mine (but I have needed it myself).

I've never used more than 2 spare tubes on a ride but I've had to give a tube to someone who'd use both of their spares. (I tend to take a third on rides more of 400km or more).

I carry a spare tyre on 300km rides or more. Had to lend it to someone once who had a blowout (that wasn't bootable) that would have been their ride over given I was right near the back of the field.

I also started LEL'09 with rear tyre that I thought I'd get away with (in hindsight, 1400km is a long way and it had been on the bike for a while). I changed the tyre at Dalkeith though as there were large patches of carcass showing: http://www.greenbank.org/misc/reartyre1.jpg
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."