what I have learned today.

[ian]

That one of the uses of CO2 is in the slaughter of chickens and pigs. And Waitrose are restricting online purchases of frozen goods as they use dry ice to keep the deliveries cold (as I assume will all the other home delivery operators)

And it's a cruel and gruesome way to kill something. Sheesh.

[Kim]

That one of the uses of CO2 is in the slaughter of chickens and pigs. And Waitrose are restricting online purchases of frozen goods as they use dry ice to keep the deliveries cold (as I assume will all the other home delivery operators)

And it's a cruel and gruesome way to kill something. Sheesh.

I wondered that.  Surely if you want to suffocate something with minimal distress, nitrogen would be better?

[ElyDave]

That one of the uses of CO2 is in the slaughter of chickens and pigs. And Waitrose are restricting online purchases of frozen goods as they use dry ice to keep the deliveries cold (as I assume will all the other home delivery operators)

And it's a cruel and gruesome way to kill something. Sheesh.

I wondered that.  Surely if you want to suffocate something with minimal distress, nitrogen would be better?

no different really, asphyxiation is asphyxiation, ask any Tory MP

[Kim]

Shirley high concentrations of CO2 lowers the blood pH causing hyperventilation and associated panic, whereas breathing an inert gas just causes you to pass out from hypoxia?

Perhaps the Westminster Gasworks could perform some studies to confirm this...

[Jakob W]

That was my understanding, at least from the dire safety briefings I was giving about liquid nitrogen handling (no travelling in lifts with it, etc.). But then I guess LN2 is a fair bit more expensive than CO2.

[ian]

Yes, carbon dioxide is a horrid way to go. Nitrogen isn't expensive, it's easily distilled from air, across a membrane or through adsorption.

[Kim]

Hmm, unless suddenly switching to pure CO2 has an anaesthetic effect that's so quick you don't get a chance to notice your breathing is disrupted?  That's not the usual rebreathing-a-limited-supply-of-air or CO2-slowly-displacing-air scenario you tend to come across in elfin safe tea contexts.

*googles*

That appears to be the general idea.  Various sources seem to suggest it doesn't work that way in practice, thobut.   

[rafletcher]

OT but liquid Nitrogen might well be quicker, but it’s potential effects on humans in the vicinity will likely be more extreme in the case of a leak. I visited a pesticide factory, where the containers are topped off with Nitrogen as a preservative. Instructions in case of the alarm going off were to head straight for the exits, and not to stop for anyone who collapsed, leave that for those in breathing gear.

[ElyDave]

We're talking high enough concentrations that you aren't going to have time to go all pH-amok here.  High enough concentrations, displace the O2, respiration stops.

https://www.boconline.co.uk/internet.lg.lg.gbr/en/images/10021714410_39607.pdf?v=6.0

[Cudzoziemiec]

I'd have thought that given the context, causing suffering is not something that in practice anyone's going to care about. (FWIW my FiL used to knock his pigs on the head with a gurt big hammer then slit their throats before they came round. No idea how this compares with CO2 etc, but probably the major difference is he only killed one pig at a time.)

[Kim]

From what I read earlier, excessive suffering tends to damage the product (bruising etc) and is therefore avoided.

[Cudzoziemiec]

It's going to be bruised if you've hit it with a hammer! Whether that affects the quality of the pig brain jelly, I have no idea.

[redshift]

Michael Portillo did a documentary about the death penalty some years ago, and after being subjected to a hypoxia test came to the conclusion that a nitrogen-based method would at least be marginally more humane than any of the other more usual ones available.   The USAnian pro-death-penalty chap he spoke to was dead against it, for exactly the same reason. I think the unsubtle subtext was that there needed to be pain and anguish for there to be 'justice.'   

[T42]

If it's the one I'm thinking of, the euphoria of nitrogen narcosis was mentioned; to which the Pro-Death fellow responded that he didn't want them to die in euphoria, he wanted them gasping and struggling in panic. He was probably Pro-Life as well and generally Pro-Misery. Probably Pro-Broccoli too.

[pcolbeck]

Tom's Diner by Suzanne Vega was the first song to be encoded into MP3 format. Karlheinz Brandenburg who invented MP3 used it to fine tune and tweak the compression algorithm after hearing that some HiFi magazines used the song to test speakers.

[ScumOfTheRoad]

I learned this many years ago...
The first band to have their songs on the Internet were Les Horribles Cernettes. Some ladies at CERN who formed a group, and their first songs were about how their boyfriends were too busy skulking around underground to pay them any attention.

Apologies upfront if I'm being sexist.

[ian]

If it's the one I'm thinking of, the euphoria of nitrogen narcosis was mentioned; to which the Pro-Death fellow responded that he didn't want them to die in euphoria, he wanted them gasping and struggling in panic. He was probably Pro-Life as well and generally Pro-Misery. Probably Pro-Broccoli too.

I like broccoli, hate murder. Anyway, nitrogen narcosis is something different to merely suffocating. While carbon dioxide asphyxiation might be fine if done correctly, in practice it doesn't seem it is, and it's easy to get wrong.

[T42]

Narcosis comes from overpressure, doesn't it? Can't remember. Anyway, the method involved dropping the partial pressure of oxygen in the chamber, leaving only the nitrogen and whatever the victim breathed out. It's used in some slaughterhouses and causes no distress.

[Ham]

(1) That the Google Nexus 5X boot loop of death can strike even a 2.5 year old phone (Mrs Ham's. And it had to happen when I scrolled a page on it....)
(2) That google support will tell you "Sorry your phone is out of warranty, go talk to the manufacturer"
(3) That when you tell them "Sorry, you're wrong, UK consumer rights extend past one year to at least five. Google it" they roll over without argument and provide a replacement phone.

[Ham]

I also just learned that forgetting you put beer in the freezer is not a good idea



It was Estrella. Damn.

[Ham]

(1) That the Google Nexus 5X boot loop of death can strike even a 2.5 year old phone (Mrs Ham's. And it had to happen when I scrolled a page on it....)
(2) That google support will tell you "Sorry your phone is out of warranty, go talk to the manufacturer"
(3) That when you tell them "Sorry, you're wrong, UK consumer rights extend past one year to at least five. Google it" they roll over without argument and provide a replacement phone.

To which I now have to add another learned item:

(4) That google can get a replacement into your hands in just over 12 hours from reporting it. Impressed.

[Mr Larrington]

• Not to lend out your chainsaw
• That British Sea Power once did a split single with The Wurzels

[Pedaldog.]

That having my skull drilled and stitched under local anaesthetic is "Interesting".
That, when things go wrong 3 hours later, going back to surgery and having more of the same is less than fun.
That, the following day when it all comes apart, going back to the hospital, being told by the surgeon that it needs re-fettling but there's no anaesthetist available until about 7 hours later and telling her to Just Do It without Anaesthetic is a little bit silly.
I did not scream out loud as she was cutting my scalp, doing a little bit more skull drilling and then stitching it all up, through Sheer Determination. At 00:40hrs this morning the dressing came off and I have had to "Improvise" to stop the plug and stud falling out again.
I am concerned that another trip to the, thankfully only 2 miles away, hospital may be on the agenda over the weekend.

[T42]

I think I need another cuppa after reading that. for pure grit.

Plug & stud sounds a bit, you known, cyborgian.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Sounds like another trip to hospital might be well called for!