Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => GPS => Topic started by: Euan Uzami on 30 June, 2012, 07:31:18 pm

Title: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 30 June, 2012, 07:31:18 pm
Being dissatisfied with the comprehensiveness of any of the current gpx creation / route planning tools available, I've decided to write my own. The goal is sort of to put the things I like about mapsource, and the things I like about bikehike, and have something with the best of both worlds.

My first and foremost intention is to build in all the features that I myself want to make my life easier, but eventually I'm probably intending to put a small unintrusive ad on it to try and make a bit of money out of it. Part of the value of it would have to be the continuous improvement of it, otherwise it could just get nicked and copied.

I also want to make it useful - basically I'm fishing for suggestions please, for features that would make it popular with other people. What would you like to see?

I asked on bikeradar but all they want is strava  ::-)

Cheers for any suggestions
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: vorsprung on 30 June, 2012, 08:46:54 pm
I was thinking about making something like this too

But I just don't have the time

I use bikehike/bikely/bikeroute toaster for making audax routes

I would like

1) ability to copy sub sections of routes
2) ability to measure distances and ascent on different subsections easily
3) easy to add notes/points

I'd like something that was easier to play "what if?" with a route to try and find a better / shorter / easier way from a to b
At the moment I do a lot of editing XML files and re-uploading
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: PloddinPedro on 01 July, 2012, 09:14:02 am
An “Audax specific” program would be a dream come true from my perspective! I don’t have any technical knowledge, so some of this might be nonsense, but ....

My broadband is rubbish so I prefer PC based applications to devise my Audax rides. I use Autoroute to get a crude "minimum distance" path , then manually build this as a Track into Memory Map.

Ideally, I'd have all the stuff Vorsprung says, plus:-

- I’d like the “drag’n’drop” sort of function that I use in Autoroute when devising rides so I can easily find the shortest route;
- then I want the ability to automatically convert a “follow-road Route” into a breadcrumb trail Track;
- then the ability to fine tune the number of Trackpoints with greater precision (to the Garmin friendly 500 points basically) without the Track becoming too “coarse”;
- then the ability easily to insert extra Trackpoints so as to further fine tune the path.

I expect the more competent in this community will point out that most if not all of the above can be done already with one program or another but I haven't had the time/energy to educate myself as to which software will do what. Having it all in one place would be great.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: frankly frankie on 01 July, 2012, 12:13:18 pm
Great project!  Basically BikeHike with all the options in one panel (say as the default display like Toaster, but with the OS map panel as an option), plus the best ideas from Toaster - would be hard to beat!  Or Toaster with the drag functionality and the the download flexibility of BikeHike - would be hard to beat.

I don't think the Gmaps API allows the super-smooth drag'n'drop that is available on Google Maps itself - shame - but I think it does allow Pegman (Street View) which would be a big plus to any Planner.

IMO the best feature of Mapsource is that it uses and 'snaps to' Garmin's own maps - hard to replicate that.

A download option for 'Route between Coursepoints'.GPX (effectively direct routing junction-to-junction) - the current BikeHike Route.GPX option is just broken, basically.

A readout onscreen of the number of points generated so far, and/or a 'limit points' tickbox right there next to the download options.

The ability to define a 'split' point(s) eg at controls so that the download is divided into a sequence of Routes or Tracks.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 02 July, 2012, 10:20:39 pm
Thanks for the comments.
Basically going to be like bikehike but tartier UI and an editor for multiple tracks/routes at once, as opposed to having one open at once.
Features I'm planning:
Left hand side collapsible panel, listing currently open routes and tracks, their names and number of points
"Split here" function (accessible by right click context menu at certain point on track) -> splits it in two at that point
Split into tracks of max 500 points each
Filter - remove least important points
Convert route to track, and v.v.
Create route from track by entering distances (-> good for audax - i.e. creates a 'sparse' route of just one point per instruction - this is the feature I mainly want myself)
Join multiple tracks/routes together
Draw route profile
Gradient warning >10% / >14% / >20% when drawing a route/track (google has an elevation service)
Possibly dual carriageway warning when drawing, but that relies on OSM which on POC proved to be slow but it might be fast enough if a small enough bounding box is used
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 02 July, 2012, 10:30:06 pm
I was thinking about making something like this too

But I just don't have the time

I use bikehike/bikely/bikeroute toaster for making audax routes

I would like

1) ability to copy sub sections of routes
2) ability to measure distances and ascent on different subsections easily
3) easy to add notes/points

I'd like something that was easier to play "what if?" with a route to try and find a better / shorter / easier way from a to b
At the moment I do a lot of editing XML files and re-uploading

1) splitting a route into multiple sections will probably cover this, which you'll be able to do at a certain point you click on the route - you will then be able to do any of the "per section" operations on the sub section, including downloading it, before (if you want) joining it back up again.
2) good idea. Get route profile will be available as a per-section operation.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Wobbly John on 02 July, 2012, 10:38:36 pm
A readout onscreen of the number of points generated so far, and/or a 'limit points' tickbox right there next to the download options.

This ^

I quite like the way Cyclestreets (http://www.cyclestreets.net/) suggests fast, medium & quiet routes, but have to save and then reduce points in Bikehike, then, sometimes, save and use Bikeroute toaster to share the route.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 02 July, 2012, 10:40:57 pm
I don't think the Gmaps API allows the super-smooth drag'n'drop that is available on Google Maps itself - shame - but I think it does allow Pegman (Street View) which would be a big plus to any Planner.
a polyline that you add to the map to draw a route on has a 'draggable' option, so I'm going to have a play with that to see what that does.

Will definitely have streetview - has got it now, seems to just have it straight out of the box. Which makes me wonder why bikehike hasn't got it - if it hasn't explicitly disabled it for some reason it could be that it's using V2 api as opposed to V3 possibly. What you don't get however is the way the main map reduces to a little bit in the corner, I think you have to code that if you want it.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Bledlow on 11 July, 2012, 05:18:02 pm
Autorouting along cycle paths would be very useful indeed.

I'd rather see OSM (or OCM) than Google Maps, because I find it clearer, but an OS option like Bikehike would be lovely.

Some of the existing route planners don't cope well with doubling back. It'd be nice if this just worked, & could be seen clearly for what it is.

A good (as in it doesn't butcher the route) point reduction feature would be useful.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 12 July, 2012, 12:13:53 am
Autorouting along cycle paths would be very useful indeed.

I'd rather see OSM (or OCM) than Google Maps, because I find it clearer, but an OS option like Bikehike would be lovely.

Some of the existing route planners don't cope well with doubling back. It'd be nice if this just worked, & could be seen clearly for what it is.

A good (as in it doesn't butcher the route) point reduction feature would be useful.

Hmm... just been working on this actually, can you let me know how exactly an existing route planner (and which one) doesn't cope well with doubling back?

And have you got an example of how a point reduction feature butchers the route? (an example route would be good)
and how it's butchered.

does bikehike's one do this? In my experience it's always been fine, apart from it sometimes reduces to slightly less than what you asked for, but i can sort that.

I'm not really sure about how to do anything with OS maps - I might add it later, but in the first instance it's going to be google based, as that's what i've been looking into to be honest. Certainly not ruling it out though as it is useful. I think the bing ones are likely to be more of a goer than OS.

bikehike does autorouting along cycle paths (according to OS's algorithm) but in my experience it's completely unreliable, it chooses complete non-roads and once had me struggling down a rocky bridlepath for 4 miles somewhere between hawes and grassington parts of which i would have found challenging on the mtb, let alone road bike. Sometimes it chooses routes that are just not there at all - you can look on streetview and it'll be just a hedge next to a field. It also will try and send you 5 miles out of your way to go down a cycle path, when there is a perfectly good road that takes less than half that - e.g. try routing from 53.2480, -0.7594 to 53.2473, -0.8009 on bikehike in "openstreetmaps, cycling" mode. (paste coords into 'find uk place./postcode').

Thanks for the input
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: frankly frankie on 12 July, 2012, 09:15:49 am
NB that Gmaps now has a 'cycling' mode as well as car and walking.  It seems to be mostly like walking mode but handles 1-way systems correctly, so possibly useful.  I tried a short local route which included roads, pedestrian areas, cyclable paths and a 1-way system and it gave gave three completely different 'correct' routes switching between the three options.  But its obviously a work in progress.

Thanks to this thread
http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=61252.0 (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=61252.0)
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Bledlow on 13 July, 2012, 12:00:26 am
Butchering routes: I've had a points reduction feature put surprisingly large gaps between points, putting the track far enough from the road or path being followed that it's hard to see where you're supposed to go. I'm trying to remember if it's worse on sections of route which have been manually generated, rather than auto-routed.

It's not a serious problem, though. The other things I mentioned are more important, IMO.

I've not found an autorouting facility which is at all useful for bikes. This may be partly due to map data (e.g. not recognising that roads which are blocked off part-way to stop them being used as rat runs are usually excellent cycle routes, with a bicycle cut-through), but some of it must be down to algorithms. I think what's really needed is something that gives preference to minor rather than major roads (i.e. the reverse of the standard auto-routing), & recognises cycle paths (where mapped) as routes, & selects them when they're going the right way, not some manic "must find a cycle path & ride it, even if I have to do more on roads just to get to it than going direct" algorithm. I've got a beautiful example of this in Bike Route Toaster, which insists on doubling back along a road, going round a roundabout, & taking a couple of hundred metres of bike path under a road bridge - to get to a point 50 metres further along the same road from where the route had reached before the final click.  :facepalm: It's on Thames Side Promenade, Reading. And if I tell it to cross the river & go up St Peter's Avenue, it wants to go through the churchyard, which is most definitely not a cycle path. There's a no cycling sign at the entrance.

Those two examples illustrate both algorithm & map data faults, I think. The algorithm should be fixable, but I'm resigned to having to switch off auto-routing for plotting some sections.

One good thing, though: although displayed on Google Maps, it's got better map data in at least one place. It knows that one stretch of the Kennetside cycle path doesn't follow the straight line shown on Google Maps, but meanders a bit. Looks odd, the route straying off the path shown on the map, but it's because the displayed map is wrong.

I can't remember which one it was I've had a problem with doubling back on, I'm afraid. I do remember it wasn't all doubling back, just sometimes, & I couldn't work out what the difference was between the sections where it just did it, & the section where it was freaking out.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: simonp on 13 July, 2012, 12:55:12 am
You stole my idea!  :P but i lack time

Quick to add waypoints. e.g. A simple click to position it, default name appears in an editable text field next to the WP, already selected; you type the name you want to change it, or hit return to accept default.

Hover near track point shows distance on track.



 
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Panoramix on 13 July, 2012, 02:53:21 am
I use qlandkartegt because i don't like online stuff and never really manage to install mapsource. it isn't too bad but could do with some improvement for cyclists. As it is opensource, may be you should consider contributing to it rather than reinventing the wheel?
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: dasmoth on 13 July, 2012, 08:11:23 am
Another vote for split/join here.  But in addition to doing it explicitly, how about auto-splitting circular/near-circular routes into the minimum number of segments such that eTrex/Oregon-type devices will work properly in routing mode rather than just sending you straight to the end.  Detecting routes where this could be a problem and prompting the user to split when they export in route format could prevent no end of hassles.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: dasmoth on 13 July, 2012, 08:17:18 am
bikehike does autorouting along cycle paths (according to OS's algorithm) but in my experience it's completely unreliable

Is there any way to make Bikehike route on OS maps?  I thought it could just do Google or OSM.

One possible option for routing on OS maps is to get the Vectormap District data and run your own routing algorithms on that.  VMD is actually pretty nice, although it would be nicer still if it came with a footpath/bridlepath/byway layer.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: frankly frankie on 13 July, 2012, 08:27:08 am
I've not found an autorouting facility which is at all useful for bikes. This may be partly due to map data (e.g. not recognising that roads which are blocked off part-way to stop them being used as rat runs are usually excellent cycle routes, with a bicycle cut-through), but some of it must be down to algorithms.

I can't imagine where you would start.  Given the huge variability in what a cyclist might want or not want - not only general preferences (main road basher vs towpath cyclist) but variations depending on circumstances, conditions, tiredness etc.  Whilst a reversal of the standard auto-routing priorities might be a good starting point, I regularly use sections of a local trunk road (and then leave it via a bollarded cut-through) - anything suppressing that wouldn't work for me.

Clicking along BikeRouteToaster at small intervals whilst changing the routing prefs in the side panel as appropriate, and using 'delete last' when it goes wrong, is probably the best I've found so far.  But drag-editing afterwards is almost impossible, so it's far from perfect.

Hover near track point shows distance on track.

Yes - this is a very nice facility, that Memory Map has.

... how about auto-splitting circular/near-circular routes into the minimum number of segments such that eTrex/Oregon-type devices will work properly ...

They are working properly!  :demon:  Dictionary definition of a route - a path from one place to another.
Its the concept of a 'circular route' which is wrong ...  ;)
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 13 July, 2012, 09:26:47 am
NB that Gmaps now has a 'cycling' mode as well as car and walking.  It seems to be mostly like walking mode but handles 1-way systems correctly, so possibly useful.  I tried a short local route which included roads, pedestrian areas, cyclable paths and a 1-way system and it gave gave three completely different 'correct' routes switching between the three options.  But its obviously a work in progress.

Thanks to this thread
http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=61252.0 (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=61252.0)

I'll enable that, was going to offer the ability to choose between walking and driving anyway so no extra effort to add a third option.
Butchering routes: I've had a points reduction feature put surprisingly large gaps between points, putting the track far enough from the road or path being followed that it's hard to see where you're supposed to go. I'm trying to remember if it's worse on sections of route which have been manually generated, rather than auto-routed.
could that have been because that was its only option, though?
For instance as an extreme example if I told it to reduce the whole of a 600 to 250 points then it would most definitely cut some bends out, as it would have to.
They basically use this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramer%E2%80%93Douglas%E2%80%93Peucker_algorithm) algorithm.

Quote
It's not a serious problem, though. The other things I mentioned are more important, IMO.

I've not found an autorouting facility which is at all useful for bikes. This may be partly due to map data (e.g. not recognising that roads which are blocked off part-way to stop them being used as rat runs are usually excellent cycle routes, with a bicycle cut-through), but some of it must be down to algorithms.

Yes, I think you're right, but I don't think we're ever going to get something which always chooses the route that we would consider the best for cycling.
There's always going to have to be some element of manual intervention to tell it how to choose the best route.
The difference between a good route creator and a mediocre one though is that the good one gives you all the stuff you need to be able to decide, when as is often the case you don't know the road. A big help with that, imho, will be just to have streetview enabled.
Also it's even true that what one cyclist considers a good route another cyclist might even consider awful, and that's even before you take mtbers into account - they might want to route down muddy rocky bridlepaths.

Quote
I think what's really needed is something that gives preference to minor rather than major roads (i.e. the reverse of the standard auto-routing), & recognises cycle paths (where mapped) as routes, & selects them when they're going the right way, not some manic "must find a cycle path & ride it, even if I have to do more on roads just to get to it than going direct" algorithm. I've got a beautiful example of this in Bike Route Toaster, which insists on doubling back along a road, going round a roundabout, & taking a couple of hundred metres of bike path under a road bridge - to get to a point 50 metres further along the same road from where the route had reached before the final click.  :facepalm: It's on Thames Side Promenade, Reading. And if I tell it to cross the river & go up St Peter's Avenue, it wants to go through the churchyard, which is most definitely not a cycle path. There's a no cycling sign at the entrance.
I think we've all got an example of that! ;)

Quote
Those two examples illustrate both algorithm & map data faults, I think. The algorithm should be fixable, but I'm resigned to having to switch off auto-routing for plotting some sections.

One good thing, though: although displayed on Google Maps, it's got better map data in at least one place. It knows that one stretch of the Kennetside cycle path doesn't follow the straight line shown on Google Maps, but meanders a bit. Looks odd, the route straying off the path shown on the map, but it's because the displayed map is wrong.

I can't remember which one it was I've had a problem with doubling back on, I'm afraid. I do remember it wasn't all doubling back, just sometimes, & I couldn't work out what the difference was between the sections where it just did it, & the section where it was freaking out.

I think you're right that problems aren't just with the data. But I'm not going to be writing a routing algorithm, I'm basically only going to be providing a (hopefully very convenient) way to access the ones others provide, with the advice that you should put points close enough so that you use it just for making the track the right shape, rather than choosing where it goes in the first place, if you know what I mean.


edit: ftp, coming back to what you said before about bing, when I had a look at it, i was quite surprised at how comprehensive their API is, so it might be feasible to program for both. Their api is obviously trying to rival google's (or the other way round, for all i know) - it's almost like a lot of the api calls are the same, but just with a different namespace...  :-\  :)
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 13 July, 2012, 09:35:58 am
bikehike does autorouting along cycle paths (according to OS's algorithm) but in my experience it's completely unreliable

Is there any way to make Bikehike route on OS maps?  I thought it could just do Google or OSM.

One possible option for routing on OS maps is to get the Vectormap District data and run your own routing algorithms on that.  VMD is actually pretty nice, although it would be nicer still if it came with a footpath/bridlepath/byway layer.
oh sorry I thought OSM was OS maps... :-\ I know it stands for openstreetmap and OS stands for ordnance survey, but I thought the map it rendered with its contours, etc was an ordnance survey map... is it not?
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: dasmoth on 13 July, 2012, 09:36:20 am
Oh, one more: really good support for "panning" devices (e.g. multi-touch trackpads, Apple's brilliant "Magic Mouse", &c.).  With the right software support, these are a great way to avoid dragging gestures and save your wrists.  Without, they're a bit of a pain.


Good touchscreen support might be nice as well, but that's a somewhat separate issue.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: dasmoth on 13 July, 2012, 09:40:12 am
oh sorry I thought OSM was OS maps... :-\ I know it stands for openstreetmap and OS stands for ordnance survey, but I thought the map it rendered with its contours, etc was an ordnance survey map... is it not?

It's possible the contours and so on on OSM are from the OS, I'm not 100% sure.  However, the "main" data -- roads, paths, etc. -- is crowdsourced, mostly by people going out with their GPS units, recording tracks, and uploading them.  Totally independent of the OS dataset.

I think that some old (public domain) OS maps may have been used as a starting point by the OSM people in some areas.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 13 July, 2012, 09:55:30 am
I use qlandkartegt because i don't like online stuff and never really manage to install mapsource. it isn't too bad but could do with some improvement for cyclists. As it is opensource, may be you should consider contributing to it rather than reinventing the wheel?

I use qlandkartegt because i don't like online stuff and never really manage to install mapsource. it isn't too bad but could do with some improvement for cyclists. As it is opensource, may be you should consider contributing to it rather than reinventing the wheel?
Well whilst I love the nobility of the idea of contributing selflessly to the cause of advancing the sum total of human intellect, I am at least partly doing this for my own personal gains.
Like I said, if it takes off (and maybe even at first) it is going to have an advert on - but I am going to be keen to make sure it is unobtrusive, and I'd rather have it unobtrusive and earn slightly less, than be prominent and profitable but annoying and spoil the look of the site. Usability is paramount, but the days of 640x480 monitors is long gone and usually there is plenty of screen real estate, especially with my ideas for having a collapsible track/route explorer and context-based menus rather than all the menus on the screen at once.

And whilst i'm not envisaging giving up the day job any time soon, it can't do it any harm for the future, since it's a pet project / hobbyist thing that would hopefully look good on the cv...

I did once contribute to openstreetmap and I'm sure I did my changes absolutely correctly but they just haven't taken effect, and I asked on their forum and got a nonsensical answer. The trouble with contributing to other people's projects is you have to do it by their rules and work round their mistakes and design flaws. I'm quite happy to do that at work in the day when I'm getting paid for it, but what I do in my own  spare time is going to something that I decide  how it's done, and at least any mistakes will be mine and I'll be able to fix them!
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 13 July, 2012, 09:56:47 am
Oh, one more: really good support for "panning" devices (e.g. multi-touch trackpads, Apple's brilliant "Magic Mouse", &c.).  With the right software support, these are a great way to avoid dragging gestures and save your wrists.  Without, they're a bit of a pain.

  • As an absolute minimum, a way to disable mousewheel zoom, which is a pain with these devices (especialy the Magic Mouse).  Bikehike offers this.

yes, will do this, it sounds like it's just a flag to set.

Quote
  • Better still, allow panning devices to be used to scroll the map.  Once you've tried this, you won't want to go back.
  • Finally, if possible, pinch zoom would be great.  I'm not totally sure this is possible in current major browsers (it didn't seem to be when I last looked, around Christmas time -- may have changed by now!).

Good touchscreen support might be nice as well, but that's a somewhat separate issue.

looking into other mobile devices might come slightly further down the road.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 13 July, 2012, 10:58:34 am
I've not found an autorouting facility which is at all useful for bikes. This may be partly due to map data (e.g. not recognising that roads which are blocked off part-way to stop them being used as rat runs are usually excellent cycle routes, with a bicycle cut-through), but some of it must be down to algorithms.

I can't imagine where you would start.  Given the huge variability in what a cyclist might want or not want - not only general preferences (main road basher vs towpath cyclist) but variations depending on circumstances, conditions, tiredness etc.  Whilst a reversal of the standard auto-routing priorities might be a good starting point, I regularly use sections of a local trunk road (and then leave it via a bollarded cut-through) - anything suppressing that wouldn't work for me.

Clicking along BikeRouteToaster at small intervals whilst changing the routing prefs in the side panel as appropriate, and using 'delete last' when it goes wrong, is probably the best I've found so far.  But drag-editing afterwards is almost impossible, so it's far from perfect.

Hover near track point shows distance on track.

Yes - this is a very nice facility, that Memory Map has.

... how about auto-splitting circular/near-circular routes into the minimum number of segments such that eTrex/Oregon-type devices will work properly ...

They are working properly!  :demon:  Dictionary definition of a route - a path from one place to another.
Its the concept of a 'circular route' which is wrong ...  ;)

"undo last"
"undo last x km"
"hover over show distance"
 - all excellent feature ideas, cheers

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: dasmoth on 13 July, 2012, 11:24:51 am
Have you thought at all about the save/share/library side of things?

I can understand wanting to avoid this, either for the same reasons as bikehike or just to keep the server-side part of things as light as possible, but it is a pretty useful facility.

The current bikehike approach is pretty neat, but I suspect it's quite a high barrier for those who don't already have web hosting stuff set up.  I wonder if something along the lines of Dropbox integration might be a better compromise.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Panoramix on 13 July, 2012, 11:43:12 am
Well whilst I love the nobility of the idea of contributing selflessly to the cause of advancing the sum total of human intellect, I am at least partly doing this for my own personal gains.

Fair enough.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 13 July, 2012, 12:11:00 pm
Have you thought at all about the save/share/library side of things?

I can understand wanting to avoid this, either for the same reasons as bikehike or just to keep the server-side part of things as light as possible, but it is a pretty useful facility.

The current bikehike approach is pretty neat, but I suspect it's quite a high barrier for those who don't already have web hosting stuff set up.  I wonder if something along the lines of Dropbox integration might be a better compromise.
Yes, I have thought about this, it is definitely something I would like to do, but would like to understand exactly what the legal issues are to be honest.

What actually is the reason bikehike took the route database off line?
Is it just being overly paranoid, as bikeroutetoaster, bikely etc. all seem to store routes.
Is it not pointless anyway since you can still display a route with a url just by passing a "lnk" parameter, it's still bikehike that's displaying the route, just not hosting it.

I know it says something like 'to protect against the, however small, possibility of litigation', but is it copyright litigation - like you're displaying my intellectual property and you don't have the right to, or is it of the 'you recommended this route and I crashed so i'm holding you responsible' type?
If it's the latter, I wonder if I could simply store UNrecommended routes, such as dual carriageways, with a warning if you then route down one. You can hardly sue me for advising you NOT to go down a certain road...

I'm thinking I could at least display recommended cafes, etc, with hopefully accurate locations unlike google  ::-) ;)

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Bledlow on 13 July, 2012, 12:42:37 pm
Clicking along BikeRouteToaster at small intervals whilst changing the routing prefs in the side panel as appropriate, and using 'delete last' when it goes wrong, is probably the best I've found so far. 
Ditto. Sometimes, one can let it auto-route over fairly big sections, but in general the intervals have to be modest. Also works well in BikeHike, with the option of manually routing on the OS map - until it runs out of tiles.

I've recently found, to my pleasure, that the cycle cut-through on one rat-run blocked road I often use to get out of Reading on CTC rides that I lead is now recognised, thus saving me a little bit of effort.

Quote
But drag-editing afterwards is almost impossible, so it's far from perfect.
Agreed.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: frankly frankie on 13 July, 2012, 01:21:13 pm
oh sorry I thought OSM was OS maps... :-\ I know it stands for openstreetmap and OS stands for ordnance survey, but I thought the map it rendered with its contours, etc was an ordnance survey map... is it not?
It's possible the contours and so on on OSM are from the OS, I'm not 100% sure.

AFAIK the contours that are usually used in conjunction with OSM maps are sourced from NASA (originally, probably via some intermediaries).
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: zoxed on 08 August, 2012, 12:11:25 pm
oh sorry I thought OSM was OS maps... :-\ I know it stands for openstreetmap and OS stands for ordnance survey, but I thought the map it rendered with its contours, etc was an ordnance survey map... is it not?
It's possible the contours and so on on OSM are from the OS, I'm not 100% sure.

AFAIK the contours that are usually used in conjunction with OSM maps are sourced from NASA (originally, probably via some intermediaries).

Specifically: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/SRTM
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: zoxed on 08 August, 2012, 12:14:12 pm
Being dissatisfied with the comprehensiveness of any of the current gpx creation / route planning tools available, I've decided to write my own...

Why not check out / contribute to an existing Open Source project, like QlandkarteGT ?
The basics of what you want are probably there, and additional features are usually welcome !
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 08 August, 2012, 12:59:12 pm
Being dissatisfied with the comprehensiveness of any of the current gpx creation / route planning tools available, I've decided to write my own...

Why not check out / contribute to an existing Open Source project, like QlandkarteGT ?
The basics of what you want are probably there, and additional features are usually welcome !

See reply #21 to Panoramix on previous page.

For my own personal usage, the most pressing want is to have a simple editor that uses a google map a bit like bikehike, but can edit multiple tracks / routes at once, which bikehike can't.

MapSource can handle multiple tracks/routes at once, but its rendering is (imho) rubbish.

When this basic functionality of loading/saving multiple tracks/routes is there, I'll publish it, but it'll still be a work in progress and I'll continue to add new features all the time.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: contango on 25 August, 2012, 06:49:09 pm
Have you thought at all about the save/share/library side of things?

I can understand wanting to avoid this, either for the same reasons as bikehike or just to keep the server-side part of things as light as possible, but it is a pretty useful facility.

The current bikehike approach is pretty neat, but I suspect it's quite a high barrier for those who don't already have web hosting stuff set up.  I wonder if something along the lines of Dropbox integration might be a better compromise.
Yes, I have thought about this, it is definitely something I would like to do, but would like to understand exactly what the legal issues are to be honest.

What actually is the reason bikehike took the route database off line?
Is it just being overly paranoid, as bikeroutetoaster, bikely etc. all seem to store routes.
Is it not pointless anyway since you can still display a route with a url just by passing a "lnk" parameter, it's still bikehike that's displaying the route, just not hosting it.

From what I recall they were concerned that someone might download a route, attempt to ride it, have an accident, and then sue bikehike for presenting it as a bike route. It might be the kind of case that would be destroyed with the application of an ounce of common sense but then people hosting web sites largely as a public service don't want to be tied up with legal threats, lawyers' fees etc as payment for their good deeds.

Quote
I know it says something like 'to protect against the, however small, possibility of litigation', but is it copyright litigation - like you're displaying my intellectual property and you don't have the right to, or is it of the 'you recommended this route and I crashed so i'm holding you responsible' type?
If it's the latter, I wonder if I could simply store UNrecommended routes, such as dual carriageways, with a warning if you then route down one. You can hardly sue me for advising you NOT to go down a certain road...

I may be verging on paranoia here but I'd be inclined to avoid anything relating to a recommendation. If a dual carriageway is "unrecommended" and the adjacent steep rocky bridlepath is not, you could end up with someone who routed down the bridlepath to avoid the dual carriageway and blames you for the damage to their bike or themselves when they considered the dual carriageway to be entirely safe. Especially since "dual carriageway" could mean anything from the A1 to a 30mph urban dual carriageway.

We're talking about the potential for truly silly legal action but with the proliferation of no-win-no-fee ambulance chasers out there my own thoughts would be to stick to the facts and let people decide for themselves which route they would rather take.

Quote
I'm thinking I could at least display recommended cafes, etc, with hopefully accurate locations unlike google  ::-) ;)

Cafes with reviews could be a good thing, recommendations can easily become outdated especially if a cafe changes hands. Accurate locations would be good, as would waypoints for cafes so you could download a route with waypoints for cafes, bike shops, cheap lodging etc along the way. If you could include some basic information, even if just a phone number and an average rating, that would help - if you need a bike shop and there are several to choose from you can choose a good one, if a bike shop is nearby but overwhelmingly badly rated you might stop there to buy a spare tube to get you to the next bike shop, or whatever.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 27 August, 2012, 11:40:27 am
Thanks for the thoughts - exactly what I thought. I'm not sure how the likes of bikeroutetoaster, bikely.com etc get round the threat of legal action - I presume it's just that they're hosted by big enough companies to fight it off, while bikehike isn't?
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 19 September, 2012, 04:13:42 pm
I'm a bit late to this thread.  FWIW here are a couple of thoughts.

Background: I use the Garmin Mapsource tool with downloaded OSM maps and it does what I want pretty much OK.  I click on the roads I want (typically little B roads) and it builds my route between these points.  That way I coerce it away from the main roads.  Very rarely I want to go where it doesn't think a road exists (eg a pedestrian cut-through) and I have problems there (and typically just commit the route to memory for that bit).  Then I view the profile to see where the hills are.

Anyway - the features I don't have, which I would like, are (a) "where is that hill?" - ie correlating between the profile and the route on the map.  I'd like to be able to add a route point by clicking on the profile (typically at the top of a hill) and (b) "how far to here?", ie to be able to show how a cumulative distance to a particular point just by hovering the mouse.

I think (b) has been requested above. 

Agree that the rendering of multiple routes by Mapsource is confusing.  However I typically only work on one route at a time.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Manotea on 19 September, 2012, 09:57:17 pm
A mechanism for plotting the flattest/hilliest route by specified distance threshold, i.e., shortest then +n%.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 19 September, 2012, 11:48:42 pm

Anyway - the features I don't have, which I would like, are (a) "where is that hill?" - ie correlating between the profile and the route on the map.  I'd like to be able to add a route point by clicking on the profile (typically at the top of a hill) and (b) "how far to here?", ie to be able to show how a cumulative distance to a particular point just by hovering the mouse.

I think (b) has been requested above. 

Agree that the rendering of multiple routes by Mapsource is confusing.  However I typically only work on one route at a time.

yes, will be able to do (a) and (b).
will likely be more right click and context menu based for interacting with the profile rather than hovering (I find implementations that auto-pan the map when hovering over the profile annoying), but yes, essentially what you want, will be context menu items like 'Highlight [this summit] on route" and "Routepoint here" etc.

This will be just another way of creating a route based on a track. The other main way will be by simply inputting a distance, so you can create a 'sparse' route with just the routesheet instructions and distances not have to fathom out where the junctions/instructions are, it will figure it out for you based on the track (this is one of the main things I want myself - and what sort of led me to start doing it.)


A mechanism for plotting the flattest/hilliest route by specified distance threshold, i.e., shortest then +n%.

No chance. Sorry. well, certainly not like you want, anyway. Google does offer 'route alternatives' so I could do a quick check and give the profiles of each one I suppose but it wouldn't be a true profile-based routing algorithm like I suspect you want.

What i can do, and will probably build in which i think vorsprung also suggested, is to enable the user to 'chop and change', i.e. change the route and see how it alters the profile, change it back, try a different route, see what that's profile is, etc. but you've got to provide the suggestions in the first place for it to evaluate - having it go away and automatically figure out the least hilly route is a whole different kettle of gibbons i'm afraid!
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Manotea on 20 September, 2012, 10:40:08 am
A mechanism for plotting the flattest/hilliest route by specified distance threshold, i.e., shortest then +n%.

No chance. Sorry. well, certainly not like you want, anyway. Google does offer 'route alternatives' so I could do a quick check and give the profiles of each one I suppose but it wouldn't be a true profile-based routing algorithm like I suspect you want.

What i can do, and will probably build in which i think vorsprung also suggested, is to enable the user to 'chop and change', i.e. change the route and see how it alters the profile, change it back, try a different route, see what that's profile is, etc. but you've got to provide the suggestions in the first place for it to evaluate - having it go away and automatically figure out the least hilly route is a whole different kettle of gibbons i'm afraid!


He heh...  how about, assuming one can identify a hill on a map (contours) or be able to identify the hill/road from the profile, having the option to 'exclude' the road/region from the route? I guess that's a re-statement of what you wrote above...
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: dasmoth on 20 September, 2012, 11:08:29 am
He heh...  how about, assuming one can identify a hill on a map (contours) or be able to identify the hill/road from the profile, having the option to 'exclude' the road/region from the route? I guess that's a re-statement of what you wrote above...

Pretty sure Google's API won't do this.  Only positive constraints ("pass through this point"), not negative ones ("keep away from this huuuuge mountain").  The best you can do is ask for a few alternative routes and hope to get one that skirts the mountain.

There is always the "write your own routing algorithm" solution...  :demon:
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 20 September, 2012, 02:17:38 pm

He heh...  how about, assuming one can identify a hill on a map (contours) or be able to identify the hill/road from the profile, having the option to 'exclude' the road/region from the route? I guess that's a re-statement of what you wrote above...


Yes, it would be possible given the right data, but you would have to write a new routing algorithm to do it.
I'm not writing my own routing algorithm for behind this site, I'm just using google's. They expose it as a service that you can just call via an API.
You just say 'give me the route from this coordinate to this other coordinate', and it fires back an array of intermediate points representing the route you should take.
Now, once you've got those intermediate points back, for each of them you can then also ask it 'what is the altitude of this point', and it will tell you that, so from that you can draw the profile.

But you don't have a hand in deciding what the intermediate points are based on the altitude. For that I would have to write a whole new router of my own, which is something I'm not going to do (yet). I might eventually, but it is quite a big job, and I want to write this interface first. You would need node data (possibly from OSM) that is allowed to be used in such a way and also altitude data but given that it could be done.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Manotea on 20 September, 2012, 03:36:48 pm
Thanks for the explanation. The option to avoid roads/set exclusion zones is fairly standard for PC based tools (autoroute, mapsource).
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 21 September, 2012, 02:16:05 pm
A mechanism for plotting the flattest/hilliest route by specified distance threshold, i.e., shortest then +n%.

No chance. Sorry. well, certainly not like you want, anyway. Google does offer 'route alternatives' so I could do a quick check and give the profiles of each one I suppose but it wouldn't be a true profile-based routing algorithm like I suspect you want.

What i can do, and will probably build in which i think vorsprung also suggested, is to enable the user to 'chop and change', i.e. change the route and see how it alters the profile, change it back, try a different route, see what that's profile is, etc. but you've got to provide the suggestions in the first place for it to evaluate - having it go away and automatically figure out the least hilly route is a whole different kettle of gibbons i'm afraid!


He heh...  how about, assuming one can identify a hill on a map (contours) or be able to identify the hill/road from the profile, having the option to 'exclude' the road/region from the route? I guess that's a re-statement of what you wrote above...

Been having a think about this and how I would do it - it would definitely be possible but the quality of the results you would get would depend on how meaningful the parameters you supply it with are.
For instance, you would have to have a method of associating height gain with 'cost'.
The actual routing algorithm itself doesn't deal in distance, it deals in the more abstract concept of 'cost', in other words the 'effort' of traversing from one node to another. Often on a 2D graph (map) this cost can simply be the distance (for a shortest-distance implementation), or the distance divided by the road speed for a fastest-time implementation.

So what this means is that in order to choose the flattest route, it would have to have some way of munging the height gained (and possibly even also the gradient) into the cost as well as the distance. In other words, you would have to be able to say, for instance, that each 1000m climbed is the equivalent of an extra 5km.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Panoramix on 21 September, 2012, 03:23:41 pm
Wouldn't the best way to measure this simply be spent energy?

I am sure that there are around formula that relate speed, gradient and power.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: simonp on 21 September, 2012, 03:34:45 pm
Varies per rider and there are a lot of factors. Node to node costs probably need to be pre computed for speed for routes of any significant distance.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Panoramix on 21 September, 2012, 05:04:40 pm
Varies per rider and there are a lot of factors. Node to node costs probably need to be pre computed for speed for routes of any significant distance.

Yes, agreed but you could assume an average rider and replace the node to node distances by node to node calories or kJ. The computed number of calories wouldn't be very accurate but the routing use the data as a relative number and it would favour flat routes.

And you could indeed make it extremely complicated by integrating wind, road surface actual rider weight, Cx (even Cy for side winds)....
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 21 September, 2012, 05:32:48 pm
Varies per rider and there are a lot of factors. Node to node costs probably need to be pre computed for speed for routes of any significant distance.

Yes, agreed but you could assume an average rider and replace the node to node distances by node to node calories or kJ. The computed number of calories wouldn't be very accurate but the routing use the data as a relative number and it would favour flat routes.

And you could indeed make it extremely complicated by integrating wind, road surface actual rider weight, Cx (even Cy for side winds)....

It's a good idea and intuitive for cyclists for 'cost' to be given by 'energy required', and for climbing, it's relatively easy to assume an average weight to give you the potential energy gained.
But if you're using energy for cost, then you have to work out the energy required to go along on the flat. This is what's less easy. Wind resistance is proportional to speed squared (I think?) so you could assume, measure or calculate this for an average rider. But there are several problems with this,
(a) it would have to be relatively accurate compared to the potential energy gained for climbing otherwise it would either place too  much importance on climbing, or on distance, and
(b) for the 'flat' cost to be static (and thus for the router to return a route in an acceptable time), you would have to assume that the rider is always going at their average cruising speed. This assumption isn't always valid, for instance in town, having to re-accelerate again after stopping at traffic lights consumes more energy than when batting along a country lane.
Could you take account of this? Possibly, but it would involve each node traversal having a speed associated with it, which would be a function of the previous nodes, and then you get into what parameters of the previous nodes is it a function of, if not just the length ... and it becomes a bit of a nightmare.

Cut short, you don't want to make it too complicated otherwise it would be impossible to fathom why it had chosen a particular route.
What I was thinking of is a simple slider that relates importance of height gain on cost to that of distance. So for example, I might like hills, so I could just move it and see how the route changes.

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Panoramix on 21 September, 2012, 10:50:05 pm
Varies per rider and there are a lot of factors. Node to node costs probably need to be pre computed for speed for routes of any significant distance.

Yes, agreed but you could assume an average rider and replace the node to node distances by node to node calories or kJ. The computed number of calories wouldn't be very accurate but the routing use the data as a relative number and it would favour flat routes.

And you could indeed make it extremely complicated by integrating wind, road surface actual rider weight, Cx (even Cy for side winds)....

It's a good idea and intuitive for cyclists for 'cost' to be given by 'energy required', and for climbing, it's relatively easy to assume an average weight to give you the potential energy gained.
But if you're using energy for cost, then you have to work out the energy required to go along on the flat. This is what's less easy. Wind resistance is proportional to speed squared (I think?) so you could assume, measure or calculate this for an average rider. But there are several problems with this,
(a) it would have to be relatively accurate compared to the potential energy gained for climbing otherwise it would either place too  much importance on climbing, or on distance, and
(b) for the 'flat' cost to be static (and thus for the router to return a route in an acceptable time), you would have to assume that the rider is always going at their average cruising speed. This assumption isn't always valid, for instance in town, having to re-accelerate again after stopping at traffic lights consumes more energy than when batting along a country lane.
Could you take account of this? Possibly, but it would involve each node traversal having a speed associated with it, which would be a function of the previous nodes, and then you get into what parameters of the previous nodes is it a function of, if not just the length ... and it becomes a bit of a nightmare.

Cut short, you don't want to make it too complicated otherwise it would be impossible to fathom why it had chosen a particular route.
What I was thinking of is a simple slider that relates importance of height gain on cost to that of distance. So for example, I might like hills, so I could just move it and see how the route changes.

I wasn't suggesting to make it complicated, for the calories thing to be workable, you would have to keep it as simple as possible, the easier would probably be a hash table that for each gradient give a number of calories per km. I suppose you really want to, you could also say twistiness coefficient = travelled distance / (Node A to Node B distance as the crow flies) and then make up an empirical coefficient to guesstimate the extra effort.

I won't blame you for using your method though as coding a routing algorithm isn't trivial!
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: simonp on 22 September, 2012, 01:11:43 am
Naismith can be applied to cycling. It's not as good as for walking but:

X minutes per km

Add Y minutes per metre climb

Subtract Z minutes per metre descent

Then allow rider to set flat speed and weight and choose X, Y, Z based on these. Each edge of the graph has length and climb and descent. If edges only know about height at nodes, consider adding nodes at significant summits or troughs.

I can estimate my moving time on Audax events reasonably well using Naismith.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: phil d on 22 September, 2012, 08:38:24 am
I know absolutely nothing about the technology of using the Google data, but these "solutions" to the gradient effect seem overly complex.  Could one not just adjust the distance for the gradient, so a 10% slope was deemed to be 10% further (or 10% slower if you are using times rather than distances)?  Would you be prepared to go 10% further to avoid a 10% slope; an extra 500m to avoid a 5km climb?  It might need a multiplier, but probably not as a rough and ready solution.  And I presume you would ignore the "benefit" of the downs.

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: frankly frankie on 22 September, 2012, 09:39:51 am
So the 'cost' attached to roads would have to be directional.
Anyhoo, I suspect we're reinventing the wheel here ...
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Panoramix on 22 September, 2012, 10:14:37 am
So the 'cost' attached to roads would have to be directional.
Anyhoo, I suspect we're reinventing the wheel here ...

Yes, at the end, these are just 3 methods of adding "cost" to a route. And the costs are directional so you need a routing engine that can deal with this. The cost calculation is probably just a small part of the equation.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 22 September, 2012, 11:30:06 am

I wasn't suggesting to make it complicated, for the calories thing to be workable, you would have to keep it as simple as possible, the easier would probably be a hash table that for each gradient give a number of calories per km.
But as far as the algorithm is concerned this hash table is equivalent to equating x metres of climbing to y extra distance. It's still the same input variables, you're just expressing it in different units.
I'm saying anything more is, by definition, too complicated.

Quote
I suppose you really want to, you could also say twistiness coefficient = travelled distance / (Node A to Node B distance as the crow flies) and then make up an empirical coefficient to guesstimate the extra effort.

Not quite sure what you mean here.
If you know the actual distance travelled given the twistiness, then you just use that for the cost.
You appear to be suggesting that there should be a greater cost per km for a twisty road, but if you are then I don't agree at all for cycling. Possibly for driving, yes, but when cycling it has to be very twisty indeed or a long steep descent for my average speed to be lower purely because of the bends.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 22 September, 2012, 11:47:12 am
I know absolutely nothing about the technology of using the Google data, but these "solutions" to the gradient effect seem overly complex.  Could one not just adjust the distance for the gradient, so a 10% slope was deemed to be 10% further (or 10% slower if you are using times rather than distances)?  Would you be prepared to go 10% further to avoid a 10% slope; an extra 500m to avoid a 5km climb?  It might need a multiplier, but probably not as a rough and ready solution.  And I presume you would ignore the "benefit" of the downs.


Naismith can be applied to cycling. It's not as good as for walking but:

X minutes per km

Add Y minutes per metre climb

Subtract Z minutes per metre descent

Then allow rider to set flat speed and weight and choose X, Y, Z based on these. Each edge of the graph has length and climb and descent. If edges only know about height at nodes, consider adding nodes at significant summits or troughs.

I can estimate my moving time on Audax events reasonably well using Naismith.

Yes, I think both boil down to the same formula effectively, just different ways of expressing it.
The formula for cost is still
C = kxX + kyY + kzZ

Where X, Y and Z are distance forward, height climbed, and height descended, respectively, and kx, ky and kz are constants.


So the 'cost' attached to roads would have to be directional.
Anyhoo, I suspect we're reinventing the wheel here ...

The cost would never be directional unless you were taking into account wind, which is deep into the realms of 'too complicated'. Like I say twistiness is relevant for cars but I doubt for cyclists. Now junctions, on the other hand, may be - and it may be certainly possible and not overcomplicated to add a cost element for traffic lights, for example.

I don't think there's a routing service that can display a shortest road route on a google map (and/or download a gpx - viamichelin can do shortest road route, but annoyingly, you can't download a gpx).
Google walking gives the shortest route, but can't be relied upon not to include non-roads /uncycleable paths.
Anyhow, I'm not even starting this yet until I've got the gpxeditor up and working...
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: dasmoth on 22 September, 2012, 11:53:13 am
The last few posts remind me of an idea I was pondering back when I was thinking about writing one of these.

Suppose you can get a reasonable number of users to upload track-logs of their rides.  Over time, you'll be able to build up an idea of the typical speed of each rider (and discard outliers: the club TT, teaching your nephew to ride, whatever...).  Once you get enough riders, you'll be able to pick segments of road that many people have ridden, and ask whether people tend to go faster or slower than their average over that segment.  If you make some allowance for average gradient, you'll get a "road quality" measurement that factors in twistiness, the kind of "undulating" that's hard to infer from digital elevation models, and even the type of road surface.

Sure, different people respond to these factors slightly differently, but I bet you could make useful generalizations, and ultimately feed them into plotting "nice cycling routes".

The challenge is to get enough tracks uploaded, and I never came up with a totally convincing explanation for how I was going to do that.  On the other hand, Strava manages to do nearly the same thing (I don't know what they're doing analytics-wise).  So it seems that if you ship a nice smartphone app, there are a reasonable number of people who don't mind having their tracks send back to the mother-ship.  Hmmm....
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: JonBuoy on 22 September, 2012, 09:12:03 pm
Why can't you just use the Strava data ?
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: dasmoth on 22 September, 2012, 09:20:11 pm
Why can't you just use the Strava data ?

I haven't actually tried it myself yet, but thought that -- at least publicly -- it just timed you over defined segments.  Perhaps they do more analytics internally?
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Panoramix on 22 September, 2012, 09:29:03 pm

I wasn't suggesting to make it complicated, for the calories thing to be workable, you would have to keep it as simple as possible, the easier would probably be a hash table that for each gradient give a number of calories per km.
But as far as the algorithm is concerned this hash table is equivalent to equating x metres of climbing to y extra distance. It's still the same input variables, you're just expressing it in different units.
I'm saying anything more is, by definition, too complicated.

Not necessarily because your formula make the assumption that the relation is linear. That might well be true for small gradients, on a steep downhill probably not (at some point you will get negative time to go from A to B!)

Quote
I suppose you really want to, you could also say twistiness coefficient = travelled distance / (Node A to Node B distance as the crow flies) and then make up an empirical coefficient to guesstimate the extra effort.

Not quite sure what you mean here.
If you know the actual distance travelled given the twistiness, then you just use that for the cost.
You appear to be suggesting that there should be a greater cost per km for a twisty road, but if you are then I don't agree at all for cycling. Possibly for driving, yes, but when cycling it has to be very twisty indeed or a long steep descent for my average speed to be lower purely because of the bends.

It has to be fairly twisty to slow you down but I am sure that I am slower on twisty lanes! You waste a lot of time and energy once you start braking or even freewheeling.


The cost would never be directional unless you were taking into account wind, which is deep into the realms of 'too complicated'. Like I say twistiness is relevant for cars but I doubt for cyclists. Now junctions, on the other hand, may be - and it may be certainly possible and not overcomplicated to add a cost element for traffic lights, for example.

The cost would have to be directional. If you go from Node A @ 500m altitude to node B @ 700m altitude A to B has to be more onerous than B to A.

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 22 September, 2012, 10:49:58 pm
Not necessarily because your formula make the assumption that the relation is linear. That might well be true for small gradients, on a steep downhill probably not (at some point you will get negative time to go from A to B!)
Ok, true I suppose.
I was actually thinking it would be fairly accurate if you made it linear but only take into account climbing - treat descending as flat. Some people may be slow climbers but fast descenders, but the time you spend descending at optimum descent speed I would guess is probably a fairly small proportion of the ride in the UK at least - in the alps or pyrenees or such like though it may be a high enough proportion to be more significant.
Remember this is simply about making a decision between whether to go over a hill or round it. Given that you've gone up it, the fact that you're going to come down the other side again is a tautology.


Quote
The cost would have to be directional. If you go from Node A @ 500m altitude to node B @ 700m altitude A to B has to be more onerous than B to A.

OK, I see - you mean directionality simply in terms of A->B being different from B->A. That's always going to be the case anyway since the existence of one doesn't even imply the existence of the other. I thought you meant east/west etc. 
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 22 September, 2012, 10:51:29 pm
Why can't you just use the Strava data ?
Strava's API doesn't actually enable you to get "the" data, only "your" data. It would be nice if you could ask it for all segments within a certain bounding box, but you can't, you have to pass it a user id to get the rides for a particular person.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: JonBuoy on 23 September, 2012, 08:52:36 am
Why can't you just use the Strava data ?
Strava's API doesn't actually enable you to get "the" data, only "your" data. It would be nice if you could ask it for all segments within a certain bounding box, but you can't, you have to pass it a user id to get the rides for a particular person.

Using websites like http://raceshape.com/ you seem to be able to obtain segment data for lots of people.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Phil W on 27 September, 2012, 12:03:08 am
I like to see it on OS mapping - API is fairly straight forward (if you know the Google API) and works off lat / long as well.  I like to be able to use Google routing or Cyclestreets API for routing; and be able to change the choice of routing or indeed to turn it off as I click along the map. Both are again easy to use if you're familiar with the Google APIs. Because I'm using OS Mapping I'd be able to see contours on the route and want to be able to drag the route to a flatter option if so desired. I'd like it to calculate the positions for Audax controls by using the distance API of Google. I'd like to be able to select others routes based on distance i.e. 100km 200km and distance from a location I choose.  I'd like it to highlight known cafe's using Google's own data plus anything else added by others.  I'd like it to be touch enabled and work on a tablet or mobile phone.  I'd like it to be location aware and work with a phones GPS when out on a route.  I'd like to be able to choose the next point on the route by address, postcode, lat long, grid reference, or clicking on the map.


Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 27 September, 2012, 10:50:05 am
I like to see it on OS mapping - API is fairly straight forward (if you know the Google API) and works off lat / long as well.  I like to be able to use Google routing or Cyclestreets API for routing; and be able to change the choice of routing or indeed to turn it off as I click along the map.
i'm having a travel mode menu (car, bike, walk, or as crow flies) as the 'default' for the track/route but the ability to override for individual points via the right click menu, as I often want to do mainly car routing, but the odd section as crow flies where it doesn't think you can go but I know you can, for instance.

Quote
Both are again easy to use if you're familiar with the Google APIs. Because I'm using OS Mapping I'd be able to see contours on the route and want to be able to drag the route to a flatter option if so desired.
my site will not be using true google style dragging, as in with the white dot hovering over the line, such as you get by setting the 'draggable' option on the DirectionsRenderer  (I've tried it but it sort of messes up other things I want to do in a way that I can't quite remember) but it should be possible to implement it in a custom way on a per-segment or per-track basis, much in the same way as bikehike does. However I think I will make per-segment the default, rather than per-track, and make it very clear where it thinks the hardpoints are, rather than having to insert them manually (I've been tripped up by the way bikehike does it on a per-track basis by default, I once found myself unnecessarily using about a 20 mile stretch of the A556 near manchester when I could have been on rural cheshire lanes, and it was because I'd dragged the track and it had re-routed the whole track rather than just, as I'd intended, the last bit.)

Quote
I'd like it to calculate the positions for Audax controls by using the distance API of Google.

I'm going to have a 'create a route based on this track' and then you'll be able to do things like insert a route point x km along the track, so you know where the points and controls on the routesheet actually are on the ground.

Quote
I'd like to be able to select others routes based on distance i.e. 100km 200km and distance from a location I choose.
I would very much like to be able to do this, however I am in two minds as to whether to do it or not due to the (very slight) possibility of the legal issues cited as the reason bikehike doesn't do it any more. I'm sceptical as to how much of a risk it is however as lots of other websites like bikely, bikeroutetoaster, mapmyride, ridewithgps etc all seem to do it.

Quote
I'd like it to highlight known cafe's using Google's own data plus anything else added by others. 
Yep, definitely. It relies on people putting them in in the first place though so initially it might only have ones I've ever been to.

Quote
I'd like it to be touch enabled and work on a tablet or mobile phone. 
It'll probably work on a tablet ok but am not going down the route of optimizing it for mobile. Can't see people planning routes on phones as being a very high percentage of its usage.

Quote
I'd like it to be location aware and work with a phones GPS when out on a route.  I'd like to be able to choose the next point on the route by address, postcode, lat long, grid reference, or clicking on the map.

my site's going to be purely a gpx editor / route planning tool, not an actual navigation aid when actually out on a ride. MOst of the target audience (primarily me ;) , but also audaxers/tourists) probably use garmins/dedicated GPSs actually on their bike rather than phones.

It will however have location awareness in the sense that the place-search box will be like the one on google maps itself rather than on bikehike - as in, its results are tailored for where the map is zoomed to, and it also offers a drop-down of likely matches as you start to type.


Thanks for the suggestions. It's making progress but isn't up to saving and loading a track yet, so you can't do much with it yet so probably not much point people trying to play with it but when it can at least 'round-trip' I'll post the URL here, with a list of what features i've got planned next.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Phil W on 07 October, 2012, 10:07:47 pm
Quote
my site's going to be purely a gpx editor / route planning tool, not an actual navigation aid when actually out on a ride. MOst of the target audience (primarily me , but also audaxers/tourists) probably use garmins/dedicated GPSs actually on their bike rather than phones.
[unquote]

I mean that when on my PC it uses location to centre the map on where I am.  The search box is purely to choose the next point to plot my route, not to navigate. So I want the route to go from St Ives to Cambridge. I usethe search box to centre the map on cambridge and then click the point I wish to navigate to next
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 07 October, 2012, 11:12:30 pm
I mean that when on my PC it uses location to centre the map on where I am.  The search box is purely to choose the next point to plot my route, not to navigate. So I want the route to go from St Ives to Cambridge. I usethe search box to centre the map on cambridge and then click the point I wish to navigate to next

Not quite sure what you mean by "uses location to centre the map on where I am", but yes, it will do essentially what I think you're saying: there will be a search box that will enable you to search for a location which will then centre the map on that location, then you will be able to click on (or near) that location to plot the next route/track point.

If by "where I am" you mean will it automatically know where your computer (and thus your house) is geographically located and automatically center it there without you having to search for it, then it might not do that - I think it's just starting to become possible as browsers can be location-aware but how well it works and whether I'll bother with it as one of the first features I don't know. If you just mean 'will there be a search box' yes absolutely.

Made pretty good progress today. I can upload multiple tracks at once and save one individually or them all, and fixed quite a few bugs. Just got a few more known issues to iron out and also put some stuff in to enable routes as well as tracks (they're subtly different as they don't have segments) and then i'll start letting other people use it.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Phil W on 10 October, 2012, 12:49:52 pm
I works well Ben.

It is supported by all the latest versions of IE, Firefox and Safari. The code couldn't be simpler either.  Just make sure you're coding your HTML to HTML5 standards. The location stuff is a HTML5 standard.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 10 October, 2012, 12:58:02 pm
I works well Ben.

It is supported by all the latest versions of IE, Firefox and Safari. The code couldn't be simpler either.  Just make sure you're coding your HTML to HTML5 standards. The location stuff is a HTML5 standard.
Yeah. When I went on your site on IE it asked me permission to track my location, and I allowed it, and it got it reasonably correct, but chrome didn't even ask me, but that may be because I've previously told it it's not allowed to.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 18 October, 2012, 12:28:10 am
This is what i've got so far: www.gpxeditor.com.
Currently done:
Draw track.
Save track.
Load track.
Streetview.
Hover over shows distance.
Undo last.

To use it, it is all accessed via the right click menu.
So to start off right click anywhere on the map and choose 'Draw Track'.
You then have a route mode in the bottom right. You can also override the current route mode one-time-only by right clicking and choosing 'route to here ...' e.g. if you mainly want car mode but the odd bit down a cycle path.
If you stop drawing, you can then create another track, and can then save each individually or save all to the same gpx file.
Right clicking on each track gives you options for that particular track.

NB:
Save track produces a gpx that loads ok in mapsource or bikehike.
Load track: for now it's best to say that it probably doesn't handle gpx files that it didn't create itself very well. However it loads ones that it created ok. If you load multiple files sequentially (or draw a track then load), it should simply add the tracks in the new file to the 'workspace' rather than wiping out what's already there.

Next on the list of features I am thinking about:
Search box
Routes and waypoints
Reducing number of points on a track
Split and join segments
Show profile of segment or whole track
Reroute segment
Send track to garmin
+ anything anybody suggests that I agree with
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: frankly frankie on 18 October, 2012, 10:30:11 am
The mode change is very smooth.  And the multiple tracks ability is unusual, and useful.
And the ability to drop in and out of Streetview without losing track (as it were).

Pretty good!
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 18 October, 2012, 11:07:15 am
The one thing I noticed (on very brief test) is that it produces a large number of trackpoints per km -much more than say bikehike.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 18 October, 2012, 12:15:31 pm
The one thing I noticed (on very brief test) is that it produces a large number of trackpoints per km -much more than say bikehike.
yes, it does. It can be reduced by using the 'overview path' but that might reduce it too much. It shouldn't matter when the reduction facility is in there as you'll be able to reduce them down to what you want.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: frankly frankie on 18 October, 2012, 01:55:47 pm
And (I'm sure there's a very good reason!) it seems to be writing lat/lon co-ords to 15 decimal places, with 10 of those being just low-level jitter.  5 places is sufficient, of course, 15 would tend to bloat the GPX file size a bit.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 18 October, 2012, 02:47:43 pm
And (I'm sure there's a very good reason!) it seems to be writing lat/lon co-ords to 15 decimal places, with 10 of those being just low-level jitter.  5 places is sufficient, of course, 15 would tend to bloat the GPX file size a bit.
ah yes, cheers, that's easy to sort
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 23 October, 2012, 01:39:49 pm
Update: put the point reduction on: HOWEVER there is a bug in it when the track has multiple segments (an intermediate 'clicked' point that you use to force it to go a certain way, will generate a new segment)
If it looks ok, it will be - however it might create gaps in the track... this is fixable however and I should be able to do it tomorrow

As an interim I have used the 'overview_path' rather than the full path so it doesn't generate a huge amounts of points in the first place, although it will probably be over 500 for a 200km, although a 200km will almost certainly now come under the 10k limit of a new etrex.

Have also lopped the decimals off to 4 d.p.

Should be able to at least start, hopefully finish, fixing the reduction to work with multi-segment tracks tomorrow...

Next on the cards is a 'segment view' where you'll be able to see what segments a track is made up of - and then join and split them for analysis and/or rerouting.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 23 October, 2012, 02:40:43 pm
Warning: The following post may make you bang your head on the wall a bit.  I've only just "got it".

I had a little play with the previous version, and now I understand what you are doing.  THe lightbulb came on.  THis is the creation of a track (rather than a route) for downloading to the GPSr.  The GPSr will then navigate along the track.

The way I use my Garmin at present is to generate a route, and let the GPSr navigate point to point.  In that case I'm relying on the routing algorithm in the GPSr.  In the case of your web service the algorithm is on the web, and the route is already calculated when you download the track. 

Am I right?

So - my question is: how does the GPSr behave when navigating a track?  Can it actually tell that you have a left turn coming up (and beep you a warning) or is it up to you to keep the location triangle over the track?
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 23 October, 2012, 03:25:01 pm
Warning: The following post may make you bang your head on the wall a bit.  I've only just "got it".

I had a little play with the previous version, and now I understand what you are doing.  THe lightbulb came on.  THis is the creation of a track (rather than a route) for downloading to the GPSr.  The GPSr will then navigate along the track.

The way I use my Garmin at present is to generate a route, and let the GPSr navigate point to point.  In that case I'm relying on the routing algorithm in the GPSr.  In the case of your web service the algorithm is on the web, and the route is already calculated when you download the track. 

Am I right?

You're right, yes.
A "track" is basically just a pre-defined line that shows up on the GPS unit. It doesn't DO anything with  it, it just shows the line that you give it.
This is the way I prefer to navigate, as I'm not relying on the GPS unit's routing algorithm, this is because when I have planned a route, I normally decide exactly what roads I want to go down in advance and I can't really be sure the unit's routing is going to choose the same ones.

So - my question is: how does the GPSr behave when navigating a track?  Can it actually tell that you have a left turn coming up (and beep you a warning) or is it up to you to keep the location triangle over the track?


It doesn't "do" anything, other than just draws it as a line on the map, like an overlay. You have to look at it every so often to know of upcoming turns but I find I do anyway - and I find I can't always guarantee that I'll hear the beep.
An etrex 20/30 (new etrex) apparently can actually "navigate a track", but this is an alien concept to me and one that I haven't really bothered investigating.


My site will eventually (probably fairly soon) have the capability to create a route, as well as a track. You won't be restricted to using 'as-the-crow-flies', but it will be my recommendation that you do, in order to keep the routepoints sparse. Otherwise you can end up with a proliferation of flags obscuring road features, and the unit beeping every 10 seconds.

In contrast to the Schrodinger-like behaviour of bikehike, which only decides whether it's a route or a track when you download it, mine will distinguish between routes and tracks - routes will probably show up red or something. The reason I'm doing it like this is I want it to be as much of a WYSIWYG-editor as possible - what you've got on screen is as close as possible a representation of what you've actually got in a GPX file.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: simonp on 23 October, 2012, 03:29:34 pm
Old etrex would also navigate a track. The problem is it doesn't reliably identify 'turns'.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 23 October, 2012, 03:50:51 pm
Not sure if it's already been mentioned, but when you've got the option of routes as well as tracks on there, one thing that would be absolutely brilliant would be the ability to rename (and maybe sequentially number) the routepoints.   

Routecoverter does this rather well, even having an option to automagically detect and insert intermediate turnpoints that bikehike has failed to identify.   
With acknowledgements to Aralsopp's video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRfPO62zSCI that introduced me to the Routeconverter freeware downloadable from http://www.routeconverter.de/home/en

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 31 October, 2012, 07:29:23 pm
Added search and point reduction  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 01 November, 2012, 09:42:20 am
A minor point ... I had a play and wrote out a "balloon" route, out the string, round the loop then back down the string.  On the return leg down the string, I can't click on the road as there's already a blue line there so I have trouble planning the return bit.

Apart from that, it's looking great and I await new features eagerly (esp. the route profile bit, and really esp. the "where's that hill" feature).
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 01 November, 2012, 06:39:40 pm
A minor point ... I had a play and wrote out a "balloon" route, out the string, round the loop then back down the string.  On the return leg down the string, I can't click on the road as there's already a blue line there so I have trouble planning the return bit.

Apart from that, it's looking great and I await new features eagerly (esp. the route profile bit, and really esp. the "where's that hill" feature).

yep, i've noticed that. will be one of the next things to be fixed.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 01 November, 2012, 07:07:27 pm
A minor point ... I had a play and wrote out a "balloon" route, out the string, round the loop then back down the string.  On the return leg down the string, I can't click on the road as there's already a blue line there so I have trouble planning the return bit.

Apart from that, it's looking great and I await new features eagerly (esp. the route profile bit, and really esp. the "where's that hill" feature).

yep, i've noticed that. will be one of the next things to be fixed.

fixed  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 01 November, 2012, 07:48:11 pm
fixed  :thumbsup:
Check!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 01 November, 2012, 08:40:40 pm
Interesting ... bike mode doesn't work in some coutries.  I noticed that it didn't work in France, so I tried some other countries.  That's a No in Belgium and Germany, a Yes in Finland, Denmark & Norway.  I went to Flensburg on the Germany/Denmark border and tried making routes that cross the border.  As soon as you go into Germany bike mode is verboten.

I don't suppose you have any control over that, but it's interesting nonetheless.

Anything else you want me to break? ;)
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 01 November, 2012, 11:37:55 pm
Bike mode doesn't work in some (dare I say it most) countries, you're right.
It should degrade gracefully, however - i.e. give you an informative error, rather than just not drawing the track - will be sunday now though.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Panoramix on 02 November, 2012, 07:49:53 am
open route service gives reasonably good routes on the continent.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 03 November, 2012, 09:19:26 am
THe file save options aren't working ... are they not implemented yet?

I'm sure they worked before as I looked at the content of the GPX file.  If I right click then choose "save just this" on one of the named boxes (segments?) then nothing happens; if I right click the map then choose "save all" I get a dialog box with a filename but I don't get an OS dialog box to name the location where to save it.

Or is there a security setting I need to do in my browser or something like that?
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 04 November, 2012, 11:39:04 am
THe file save options aren't working ... are they not implemented yet?

I'm sure they worked before as I looked at the content of the GPX file.  If I right click then choose "save just this" on one of the named boxes (segments?) then nothing happens; if I right click the map then choose "save all" I get a dialog box with a filename but I don't get an OS dialog box to name the location where to save it.

Or is there a security setting I need to do in my browser or something like that?

maybe - I'll have a look at it.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 04 November, 2012, 01:45:14 pm
Toady,
not a problem your end, I was getting it too.

Publish of the fix just going through now.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 04 November, 2012, 05:11:40 pm
I used to be a test manager, can you guess? ;)
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 23 November, 2012, 06:33:50 pm
Is there a (new) problem with Loading previously saved tracks?
It was working for me before, but now clicking on Load doesn't bring up a dialog box.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 24 November, 2012, 05:30:13 pm
Is there a (new) problem with Loading previously saved tracks?
It was working for me before, but now clicking on Load doesn't bring up a dialog box.

Pete,
I did notice a problem with that on firefox but seemed ok on chrome and IE, and I suspect it was something to do with hiding the file load control, under a menu item - in order to look nice - but working is more important,  so I've taken it out and put it at the top left(ish) - just to the right of the map/satellite control.

I'm looking to put a front page on and also archive versions as I publish them, at least while it's in development which it will be for the foreseeable, so if I muck something up you can still use an old version.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 24 November, 2012, 05:54:52 pm
I've also done rerouting.
When you've stopped drawing a track, right click on any segment (use split and/or join to get the segment the right length, you can see what segment is what as it glows blue when hovering over it), and choose 'reroute', and then move the mouse.

Click the map when happy then choose accept or cancel. It will use the currently selected routing mode, so I've made the routing mode control (bottom right) permanently visible. If you reroute using as crow flies routing mode, then it will just 'unroute' a segment, i.e. make it a straight line.


I did have to do a bit of refactoring to store the routes in encoded format rather than as json, which is why I might have messed a few things up with it.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 24 November, 2012, 05:57:12 pm
Point reduction will also have broken. I'll fix it now.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Phil W on 24 November, 2012, 09:36:18 pm
I'd like to be able to adds controls / waypoints to the route. Gpx can hold waypoints as well as tracks etc. then my gps could highlight the waypoints / controls on the map
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 25 November, 2012, 03:38:30 pm
I'd like to be able to adds controls / waypoints to the route. Gpx can hold waypoints as well as tracks etc. then my gps could highlight the waypoints / controls on the map

ok, I'll do that soon.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 26 December, 2012, 06:13:37 pm
published quite a lot of updates to my site today, can now add/edit routes and waypoints as well as tracks.

You can also automatically 'create route' from a track.

(link in sig)
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 27 December, 2012, 12:28:26 pm
published quite a lot of updates to my site today, can now add/edit routes and waypoints as well as tracks.

You can also automatically 'create route' from a track.

(link in sig)

Any limit to the size of track that you can create a route from ?
I only ask because I started ceating a track for a 200km before these updates came into effect and although I just reduced it to 500 points it won't convert into a route in the same way as a little "fresh" track (of 17km) that I just created for working out how to use the new features.

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 27 December, 2012, 12:54:16 pm
Sorry - it doesn't convert it into a route, it adds a new route based on it.

It will work better for a 200 if you split it up into segments first.
The way it works is to take each segment, reduce it (but only internally, in its own memory - it leaves the original track there) to 10 points, then asks google for a route through those 10 points.
The reason it has to reduce each segment to 10 is because 8 is the limit for number of intermediate waypoints, so that, plus start and end, is 10. But it does that for each segment of the route, not the whole route itself, so obviously the more segments you have the more fine grained and potentially accurate it is.
Reducing it to 500 first should have no (or insignificant) effect because it reduces each segment to 10 internally anyway.

It's by no means perfect - you will almost certainly have to fiddle around with it a bit, like add, remove and move the points on the route (but you should be able to do that now) however it should at least have a stab at pointing out junctions.


edit: it's not a bad idea to get into the hang of splitting into segments anyway - as a way of grouping your tracks into logical blocks. Certainly split it at least at controls, but further, any section that could potentially be re-routed, i.e. any section for which there's a potential choice of different ways to go, is better being its own segment.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 28 December, 2012, 12:52:03 pm
It's by no means perfect - you will almost certainly have to fiddle around with it a bit, like add, remove and move the points on the route (but you should be able to do that now) however it should at least have a stab at pointing out junctions.

I've had a good play around with it this morning.  Not sure I've discovered all the features yet, but I am most impressed so far.   This is now at a point where it definitely becomes the "weapon of choice" for the combined breadcrumb track and off-road "route" approach favoured by many AUKs with older Etrexes.
Do you plan to add in the options of OSM Cycle and OS Landranger map display(like on bikehike)?   That would make it well nigh perfect in my book. 
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 28 December, 2012, 12:58:38 pm
Looking great.  Need to play with it a bit more ...
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 28 December, 2012, 02:11:13 pm
It's by no means perfect - you will almost certainly have to fiddle around with it a bit, like add, remove and move the points on the route (but you should be able to do that now) however it should at least have a stab at pointing out junctions.

I've had a good play around with it this morning.  Not sure I've discovered all the features yet, but I am most impressed so far.   This is now at a point where it definitely becomes the "weapon of choice" for the combined breadcrumb track and off-road "route" approach favoured by many AUKs with older Etrexes.
Do you plan to add in the options of OSM Cycle and OS Landranger map display(like on bikehike)?   That would make it well nigh perfect in my book.

Thanks , that's good to hear  :thumbsup:

You haven't discovered all the features yet because they haven't all been written yet   :D (currently working on elevation)
but the ones that are there are all accessible via the right click menu.


Adding OSM cycle/OS landranger maps is more difficult because it effectively means almost completely rewriting it if those maps are to be interactive. However what might be easier is to do something similar to the split screen approach, and just have the split screen display the line on the map but not have it interactive.

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: fuaran on 28 December, 2012, 02:17:05 pm
You can show OSM maps through the Google Maps API. See for example: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Maps_Example
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 28 December, 2012, 02:20:16 pm
You can show OSM maps through the Google Maps API. See for example: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Maps_Example
Oh excellent, thanks - yes, then Pete, eventually.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 28 December, 2012, 05:02:54 pm
Having used the split screen of bikehike a lot (and it has many advantages) I think, on balance, I prefer the bigger single screen real estate of gpxeditor.  With OS and OSM "layers" that can be switched in and out at will (while still using the various Google routing protocols) it will be AUKtastic.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 28 December, 2012, 07:41:07 pm
yeah, well if it really is as easy as fuaran's link suggests it could be doable quite soon, I might prioritise that above elevation as i'm quite curious about that method of just swapping out the tile provider.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 28 December, 2012, 09:24:15 pm
I've put OSM on. Seems to just work  :thumbsup: Seems very slow at the moment, but it might just be our internet what with the amount of bloody iphones, ipads, games consoles, kindles, smartphones, etc on the router all synching themselves every 5 seconds  ::-)
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: PloddinPedro on 28 December, 2012, 10:25:53 pm
Ben - I stayed away for a while, waiting for you to polish it, but I've given in to temptation and had another go this evening.

I suspect I've not properly educated myself on how to use it but........ Using the "Draw Track" option and set to "Walking" I input the 7 controls (plus start/finish) of my regular 201km ride. This delivers 200km exactly in Google Maps and rides as 201.5km on my Garmin. But on your GPXEditor I get 219km around a course which differs markedly from my usual route and which visually, is very obviously not the shortest path.

Am I misunderstanding this, or expecting it to do something it's not actually designed to do? Or just doing something wrong?
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 29 December, 2012, 07:33:03 pm
Ben - I stayed away for a while, waiting for you to polish it, but I've given in to temptation and had another go this evening.

I suspect I've not properly educated myself on how to use it but........ Using the "Draw Track" option and set to "Walking" I input the 7 controls (plus start/finish) of my regular 201km ride. This delivers 200km exactly in Google Maps and rides as 201.5km on my Garmin. But on your GPXEditor I get 219km around a course which differs markedly from my usual route and which visually, is very obviously not the shortest path.

Am I misunderstanding this, or expecting it to do something it's not actually designed to do? Or just doing something wrong?
My guesses are, most likely first:
a) Where you actually clicked is a slightly different position from what google regards as the centre of the town when you create the route by inputting place names on 'get directions' on google maps
b) you had it on driving mode for some of the route, or there was possibly a bug that caused it to be actually on driving mode when it said it was on walking mode
c) there is some anomaly like a manual level crossing that google walking doesn't think you can get past when you can (more likely if combined with (a) )

(I am presuming the 219km is when you actually used gpxeditor t create it rather than just upload one created elsewhere)
so then:
Did you only click at the controls? And you had it on walking right from the start of when you created the track?
It's probably pretty easy for me to work out why it differed. I'll send you a pm so you can send me the file so I can take a look if you like.
You can re-route a segment if you like. Right click on any segment (you might have to choose 'stop drawing' first if you're in the middle of drawing a track) and choose 'reroute'. Move the mouse gently to where you want to reroute it through. When the line looks a better route, click the mouse (either button) and choose accept. If it goes haywire, click the mouse and choose 'cancel', and the track will go back to what it was like before you clicked reroute.

I'll get some guides up soon that will give you a step by step guide on how to use the features.
Thanks for persisting with it!

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 30 December, 2012, 09:26:02 pm
I've put OSM on. Seems to just work  :thumbsup: Seems very slow at the moment, but it might just be our internet what with the amount of bloody iphones, ipads, games consoles, kindles, smartphones, etc on the router all synching themselves every 5 seconds  ::-)

Works fine for me. :thumbsup:
I think there are different "renderings" of the OSM data.  Any chance it could use one that highlights designated cycle routes (like bikehike does) ?
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 03 January, 2013, 11:16:36 pm
And another couple of "wish list" item.

"hover" over a "via point" on a route and it would be good to see its name rather than clicking it to "rename" and finding the name was fine after all.

Option to export the numbers, names and comments of all the "via points" on a route to a CSV file.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 04 January, 2013, 08:55:24 am
And another couple of "wish list" item.

"hover" over a "via point" on a route and it would be good to see its name rather than clicking it to "rename" and finding the name was fine after all.

Option to export the numbers, names and comments of all the "via points" on a route to a CSV file.

yep, both easy. might get chance on sunday, failing that later next week.

Also don't get your hopes up too much but I think it's possible to enable bing as a tile provider, which means OS maps.  :D
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 04 January, 2013, 09:42:52 am
When you switch between maps does it also use the displayed map for routing?  Or does it always use google road data for routing. 

I know I could check this by trying a route where there is a road missing from OSM, but I thought I'd be lazy and ask.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 04 January, 2013, 09:48:09 am
When you switch between maps does it also use the displayed map for routing?  Or does it always use google road data for routing. 

I know I could check this by trying a route where there is a road missing from OSM, but I thought I'd be lazy and ask.
no, it always uses google for routing.

get this, though - fairly spookily, streetview still works... ;)
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 13 January, 2013, 11:46:41 pm
published a few updates today: http://blog.gpxeditor.co.uk/2013/01/default.aspx
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: PloddinPedro on 14 January, 2013, 08:48:13 am
It's looking better and better by the day Ben. Keep up the good work
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: frankly frankie on 14 January, 2013, 09:50:59 am
Yes indeed.  I'm looking forward to this bit -

I'll get some guides up soon that will give you a step by step guide on how to use the features.

'cos I seem to be missing something - in 'Track' mode everything works as expected, but when I try to draw in 'Route' mode all I can get is straight line point-to-point lines, regardless of what I select among the modes at the bottom, and regardless of whether I just click or right-click and use 'route to here'.
Win 7 and Firefox 12.

Still, I see from the blog that 'route generation from track' is an up-coming feature, so maybe I'll be able to get round it that way.

get this, though - fairly spookily, streetview still works... ;)  [in OSM view]

 :o :thumbsup:
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 14 January, 2013, 10:02:07 am
Yes indeed.  I'm looking forward to this bit -

I'll get some guides up soon that will give you a step by step guide on how to use the features.

'cos I seem to be missing something - in 'Track' mode everything works as expected, but when I try to draw in 'Route' mode all I can get is straight line point-to-point lines, regardless of what I select among the modes at the bottom, and regardless of whether I just click or right-click and use 'route to here'.
Win 7 and Firefox 12.

Still, I see from the blog that 'route generation from track' is an up-coming feature, so maybe I'll be able to get round it that way.

yes, sorry, that's deliberate. I've taken the view that routes are meant to be sparse, with just a routepoint at each instruction, rather than to define the actual shape of the line.

I create a marker for each route point which you can individually give a name to.
The browser seems to grind to a halt when there are hundreds of these on the map. Try loading an existing gpx with a rte in it that has hundreds of rtepts, and see how responsive the browser is.

Is that a limitation do you think, do you need to create routes rather than tracks but with auto routing? If so how would you like to name all the (many) routepoints - just by number? If you do need that feature then I'm sure I can think of a way round it.

The 'create route from track' is already in there, it's accessed from the track's rectangular icon in the top right. The way it works is described in post #97.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 14 January, 2013, 10:11:11 am
..... but when I try to draw in 'Route' mode all I can get is straight line point-to-point lines, regardless of what I select among the modes at the bottom, and regardless of whether I just click or right-click and use 'route to here'.
Win 7 and Firefox 12.

I see the fact that it doesn't do its own "routing" as a definite advantage.
Seems to me (Ben, correct me if I'm wrong) that it lays down via points on any road junctions it finds on the track, and then shows them connected in direct mode routing.   
This corresponds to how I use my Vista HCx anyway (track on the road + crow flies route which I learned from these pages many moons ago). 
But if you take the route GPXEditor generates into Mapsource and ask it to recalculate, it does it according to whatever rules you have set up.   Presumably if you put in on a Garmin in "follow road" mode it would show the route followiing the road.

Edit: X-posted with Ben
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 14 January, 2013, 11:37:11 am

I see the fact that it doesn't do its own "routing" as a definite advantage.
Seems to me (Ben, correct me if I'm wrong) that it lays down via points on any road junctions it finds on the track, and then shows them connected in direct mode routing.
that's a fairly kind description, but yes, essentially  ;)

(being pedantic, it doesn't look along the track and find junctions, it asks for a NEW route going through a subset of the point of each segment, and then assembles a route from those - this caveat meaning that it's obviously entirely possible that it could get it wildly wrong - the route it creates should be regarded as just a starter which you should then check, and chop and change if necessary, but hopefully i've made it easy for that to be done.)

however I think what frankie was on about is the fact that it doesn't do auto-routing when drawing a route, only when drawing a track, which like I say is intentional just so you don't get a huge number of markers.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: frankly frankie on 14 January, 2013, 01:20:18 pm
Is that a limitation do you think, do you need to create routes rather than tracks but with auto routing?

No not a problem at all - I just misunderstood what was on offer.  After all, if I'm drawing a Route and then right-click - I'm offered options to continue the Route using a variety of different algorithms, driving, walking etc.  'Direct' Routes suits me fine, it's just an oddity that the other options seem to be there.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 14 January, 2013, 01:27:51 pm
I like the sparse or as the crow flies routing.

How does the "save just this" work?

Is it possible to (assuming you save the route and the track separately) import both into Basecamp and then save the two as a combined GDB file but keeping the route part as a sparse route (avoiding recalculation by Basecamp)?
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 14 January, 2013, 02:26:58 pm
I like the sparse or as the crow flies routing.

How does the "save just this" work?
Save just this saves just the particular track to a GPX file, rather than all the *things* (routes, tracks and waypoints) that are currently loaded all into one GPX file.
So for example if you have three tracks, two routes and four waypoints loaded, and you click 'Save just this' on one of the tracks, then it will save just that track into its own GPX file, but not the other tracks, or the routes. (For convenience, it will give you the option to include the waypoints as well, or not.)

If you click save all, then it will save all three tracks, two routes and four waypoints into the one GPX file.

Quote

Is it possible to (assuming you save the route and the track separately) import both into Basecamp and then save the two as a combined GDB file but keeping the route part as a sparse route (avoiding recalculation by Basecamp)?

i don't know basecamp, only mapsource, but if you want a combined GDB file, it sounds like it might be easier to save them NON-separately, i.e. save all, then import the resulting single gpx containing both the track and the route into basecamp, then save it off as a GDB?
I know this works with mapsource, which doesn't recalculate a route when you load one from a GPX file. I don't know what causes basecamp to recalculate a route.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 14 January, 2013, 02:29:06 pm
Is that a limitation do you think, do you need to create routes rather than tracks but with auto routing?

No not a problem at all - I just misunderstood what was on offer.  After all, if I'm drawing a Route and then right-click - I'm offered options to continue the Route using a variety of different algorithms, driving, walking etc.  'Direct' Routes suits me fine, it's just an oddity that the other options seem to be there.

Oh right I see what you mean - those options do present themselves on the menu which is why it's confusing, thanks for spotting that.  :thumbsup:

Also I've noticed that the ad box obscures the hover-over panel, I'll fix that tonight hopefully.

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: frankly frankie on 14 January, 2013, 05:04:06 pm
Quote
Is it possible to (assuming you save the route and the track separately) import both into Basecamp and then save the two as a combined GDB file but keeping the route part as a sparse route (avoiding recalculation by Basecamp)?
i don't know basecamp, only mapsource, but if you want a combined GDB file, it sounds like it might be easier to save them NON-separately, i.e. save all, then import the resulting single gpx containing both the track and the route into basecamp, then save it off as a GDB?
I know this works with mapsource, which doesn't recalculate a route when you load one from a GPX file. I don't know what causes basecamp to recalculate a route.

I don't know Basecamp either, but remember that ultimately whether a Route follows the road or not is down to what you choose in the GPS - regardless of whether it does or does not, in Basecamp or any other software.
(http://www.aukadia.net/gps/follow-or-off-w.gif)
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 15 January, 2013, 09:26:32 am
I don't know Basecamp either, but remember that ultimately whether a Route follows the road or not is down to what you choose in the GPS - regardless of whether it does or does not, in Basecamp or any other software.
This is why, on Ben's wonderful site, routes (rather than tracks) would be lower on my priority list than tracks.

If I set up a route (with relatively few points) and then ask a piece of software to calculate roads-to-be-taken* between the route points for me, I want to be confident that this is the same as my GPS will give.  Using Garmin Mapsource with the same OSM data as in my Garmin GPS  I can have this confidence.

But if I create a set of routepoints on software using different map data, and a different routing engine to my GPS I don't have total confidence that my GPS isn't going to do something totally different, and maybe quite bonkers when navigating between the points (maybe it's missing a crucial road or something).

That's why, if I have  software and map data different to my GPS (as is the case here) then I'd prefer to create a track, not a route, and manually try to keep my current position on the line of that track, rather than wait for my GPS to bing me and tell me to turn left in 100 metres.

Does that make sense?

* trying hard not to use the word "route"
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 15 January, 2013, 09:46:04 am
I don't know Basecamp either, but remember that ultimately whether a Route follows the road or not is down to what you choose in the GPS - regardless of whether it does or does not, in Basecamp or any other software.
This is why, on Ben's wonderful site, routes (rather than tracks) would be lower on my priority list than tracks.

If I set up a route (with relatively few points) and then ask a piece of software to calculate roads-to-be-taken* between the route points for me, I want to be confident that this is the same as my GPS will give. 
<peter kay>

I wanna moonwalk son, but life's a shithouse. ;)

</peter kay>

Quote
Using Garmin Mapsource with the same OSM data as in my Garmin GPS  I can have this confidence.

I'm not really sure you can be confident even then.

Garmin mapsource may be able to be installed with the same data as in on your garmin but it still hasn't necessarily got the same routing algorithm.

Quote
But if I create a set of routepoints on software using different map data, and a different routing engine to my GPS I don't have total confidence that my GPS isn't going to do something totally different, and maybe quite bonkers when navigating between the points (maybe it's missing a crucial road or something).

That's why, if I have  software and map data different to my GPS (as is the case here) then I'd prefer to create a track, not a route, and manually try to keep my current position on the line of that track, rather than wait for my GPS to bing me and tell me to turn left in 100 metres.

Does that make sense?

* trying hard not to use the word "route"

It's been said before and I'll say it again, but the only way you can have 'total confidence' your garmin isn't going to divert you from the exact roads you intended to use is not to let it use its own routing algorithm - i.e. don't use 'follow road' routing. That's not what it's for. It will get you to a destination, using *some* roads, but they may not be the roads you would have chosen yourself. It's for things like finding your way to a travelodge or the train station in a strange town - not for navigating a whole pre-planned bike ride. That's what tracks are for.
The way I've intended routes as my site creates them to be used, is to follow on your unit - but in off-road mode, that way it will just remind you of the next instruction (and possibly beep when near it) but won't try and figure out every single turn. You figure out the turns beforehand, and just use it to remind yourself of them - not ask it to calculate them again and hope it comes up with the same result. However, I make no apologies for giving yourself enough rope to hang yourself with. ;)
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 15 January, 2013, 09:55:43 am
Sorry, I didn't intend to be contentious.

Quote
Using Garmin Mapsource with the same OSM data as in my Garmin GPS  I can have this confidence.

I'm not really sure you can be confident even then.

I can be moderately confident because that's what it normally does (ie confidence comes from experience) and also because I normally put my route points fairly close together/at junctions so there's little scope for disagreement.  I know it's a little gamble but I'm happy to take it when using the same map data and the same (OK similar ... from same vendor) routing engine but I wouldn't take it otherwise.

And from your explanation above you're not expecting me to take that gamble! I understand now.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Manotea on 15 January, 2013, 10:59:09 am
I use an eTrex Vista Cx, mostly programmed using Garmin mapsource & City Navigator maps using routes.

That’s mostly because (a) I like the pop up exploded displays for upcoming junctions (especially at night) and (b) mapsource has only limited support for "route" planning using tracks.

My approach to programming routes is to place editable waypoints midway on key roads, labeling them with town names and color coded flags, generally placing a waypoint every 5km or so.

This approach requires far fewer waypoints than the traditional waypoint every junction, and running my GPS display in autozoom mode, I generally have a view of the next waypoint coming up with a display titled “Toytown in xKm. 

I'm using a mapping gps so it’s generally pretty obvious if my GPS is attempting to direct me down some blind alley but that doesn’t happen often because I’ve restricted its decision making to what happens in the next 5km or so. Any “off road” sections I mark with flags; the GPS throws a tantrum when I wander off road but recovers automatically when I pop out the other side. I also have the option of loading a track as well as the route to provide a reference. This approach works "fine".

Things move on though and the trend is for maps to show off-road paths and nextgen GPS units (AIUI) to display tracks like routes complete with pop up display’s at junctions. The former makes mixing "routes" generated on maps which show off road cycleways et al with maps that don't problematic and the latter rather makes the  route based approach redundant and tracks/courses whatever you wantto call them are the future.

Regardless until my Vista dies for Ben’s tool to replace Garmin map products in my affections it would need to replicate Mapsource’s functionality in defining routes’s based on a set of editable waypoints (not routes based on  tracks with trackpoints rendered as a zillion uneditable routepoints, which is what most online utilities tend to do).

A bit late for the spec but this may inform some decisions.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 15 January, 2013, 11:45:28 am
I'm guessing you create the waypoints first, and then use mapsource's "Create Route From Waypoints" feature, right?
If you're asking can I replicate that, yes, absolutely.
But, if you want it to just create *straight lines* between the waypoints, that would be a route.
If you want it to go away to google and 'route by road' between the waypoints, then what comes back would be a *track* (like your willy warmer gpx, which fairly conveniently will prove quite useful for testing the fact that waypoints go off the bottom of the screen and need a scrollbar  :).)

When mapsource actually does for 'create route from waypoints' is not to create routepoints from all the intermediate points from the on-road routing (it still only has one routepoint for each of your waypoints), but to store them in an extension, iirc. It would be better to just put them in a track though imho.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Manotea on 15 January, 2013, 02:01:50 pm
I'm guessing you create the waypoints first, and then use mapsource's "Create Route From Waypoints" feature, right?
Yes

But, if you want it to just create *straight lines* between the waypoints, that would be a route.
what mapsource calls "direct" route mode

If you want it to go away to google and 'route by road' between the waypoints, then what comes back would be a *track* (like your willy warmer gpx, which fairly conveniently will prove quite useful for testing the fact that waypoints go off the bottom of the screen and need a scrollbar  :).)

When mapsource actually does for 'create route from waypoints' is not to create routepoints from all the intermediate points from the on-road routing (it still only has one routepoint for each of your waypoints), but to store them in an extension, iirc. It would be better to just put them in a track though imho.

Not sure I quite follow...

In mapsource "follow road" mode, I define the (editable user) waypoints and then lace them together as a route; mapsource calcs and displays the route between them, however that is for display purposes only. The route between the waypoints is not written to the GPX; the gps recalcs the "follow road" route at load (which is what causes all the grief).

If you're saying your system would replicate mapsource "follow road" routing by calculating and displaying the "route" between waypoints, and write both the waypoints (with labels and bespoke flags) and associated route based on them AND/OR the associated (follow road) inter-route-point track segments to the GPX at the same time, that would be perfect!
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 15 January, 2013, 03:57:10 pm

In mapsource "follow road" mode, I define the (editable user) waypoints and then lace them together as a route; mapsource calcs and displays the route between them, however that is for display purposes only. The route between the waypoints is not written to the GPX; the gps recalcs the "follow road" route at load (which is what causes all the grief).
OK, I think I see what you mean. You lace them together (by which I presume you mean use mapsource's 'Create Route From Waypoints' feature) just in order to make sure you've got enough waypoints, yes?

I'll take the next bit step by step,
Quote
If you're saying your system would replicate mapsource "follow road" routing by calculating ...

yes, albeit using google's algorithm and data

Quote
and displaying the "route" between waypoints, and write both the waypoints (with labels and bespoke flags)
(the WAYpoints already exist - you've said you create them first, so it wouldn't need to write them again...see '<anal>' below )

Quote
and associated route based on them
yes, which is made up of ROUTEpoints, which it would create anew. One in the same place as each waypoint, which is exactly what mappoint does.

Quote
AND/OR the associated (follow road) inter-route-point track segments to the GPX at the same time,

yes, absolutely. This could be like you say instead of, or as well as, creating the route. I would recommend instead of.

Creating just the track would produce a GPX like your willy warmer 'full' , by the way, the way I'm thinking of doing it. (And this is the exact format of GPX that I like to navigate by - I like having waypoints there if I need them, but I navigate primarily from a track, not a route. Obviously also therefore what I would recommend, although I will provide the 'route' option as well if it's wanted.)


This is something mapsource can't do - which leads me to be curious as to how you did create it - did you create the track separately?

<anal>
The way I think of it:
A WAYpoint is its own entity, an orphan, it is its own free agent, nothing owns it and nothing is made up of them.  :D
A ROUTEpoint is what a ROUTE  is made up of, it cannot live outside of a route, and a route cannot be made up of anything else.
Confusingly, in the schema, http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1/ a routepoint has the same type specification as a waypoint. However, you can't just 'move' waypoints into a route. They have to be copied to routepoints, declared as <rtept> rather than <wpt>.

</anal>
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 15 January, 2013, 04:23:03 pm
Something in Manotea's post made me think of another "nice to have" but by no means essential feature:
In Mapsource the "flag" assigned to a Waypoint is user-selectable (and transfers to the Etrex).    The default blue flag is fine for most things.  I change to a small dot in urban areas where screen is cluttered anyway, and to a red flag for a control  (especially for Infos - on which I put a proximity warning also)

Any chance those options could be replicated for your "routepoints"
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 15 January, 2013, 04:56:27 pm
Something in Manotea's post made me think of another "nice to have" but by no means essential feature:
In Mapsource the "flag" assigned to a Waypoint is user-selectable (and transfers to the Etrex).    The default blue flag is fine for most things.  I change to a small dot in urban areas where screen is cluttered anyway, and to a red flag for a control  (especially for Infos - on which I put a proximity warning also)

Any chance those options could be replicated for your "routepoints"

A routepoint already is just a red dot on mine, but a waypoint can easily be made to be just a purple dot instead of a purple 'google marker' icon, yes.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Manotea on 15 January, 2013, 05:16:34 pm
Creating just the track would produce a GPX like your willy warmer 'full' , by the way, the way I'm thinking of doing it. (And this is the exact format of GPX that I like to navigate by - I like having waypoints there if I need them, but I navigate primarily from a track, not a route. Obviously also therefore what I would recommend, although I will provide the 'route' option as well if it's wanted.)

The problem with tracks is that all eTrex (h)Cx users get is a line on a map. A route gives active navigational aides (beeps and popups at junctions). Why not let the user decide which to use by making waypoints, route and track user selectable?

As pppete notes, waypoints should ideally have user editable labels and selectable flags. I color code waypoints to distinguish between standard points, info and controls.

I use wingdb3 to generate a track from the route then copy it into the input gdb
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 15 January, 2013, 05:27:34 pm
Creating just the track would produce a GPX like your willy warmer 'full' , by the way, the way I'm thinking of doing it. (And this is the exact format of GPX that I like to navigate by - I like having waypoints there if I need them, but I navigate primarily from a track, not a route. Obviously also therefore what I would recommend, although I will provide the 'route' option as well if it's wanted.)

The problem with tracks is that all eTrex (h)Cx users get is a line on a map. A route gives active navigational aides (beeps and popups at junctions). Why not let the user decide which to use by making waypoints, route and track user selectable?

Oh yes, the route option will definitely be there.

Quote
As pppete notes, waypoints should ideally have user editable labels and selectable flags. I color code waypoints to distinguish between standard points, info and controls.

I use wingdb3 to generate a track from the route then copy it into the input gdb

I'll provide the option to convert it into a small dot rather than the google marker image but I'm loath to allow the user to change the colour of it, as the colour coding is integral to the way the map items relate to the items in what I call the 'explorer', i.e. the list on the right hand side. I could definitely have different shapes, though, but they would all be purple. Maybe a purple pencil for an info control, and a purple knife-and-forks symbol for a cafe, etc.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Manotea on 15 January, 2013, 05:38:59 pm
Dots, diamonds, squares, K&F, etc. all work!
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: frankly frankie on 16 January, 2013, 10:16:32 am
The problem with tracks is that all eTrex (h)Cx users get is a line on a map....

To be fair though, the situation now is that we (h)Cx users are outliers.  Look at any sizeable group of cyclists (eg at an event start) and you'll find that we're part of a very small minority now. 
As such it's not really reasonable to tailor any new programming with these old devices in mind.

Similarly - because I often produce GPX files for distribution to groups of cyclists - I've had to review my standards over the last year to produce files that are friendlier towards the new devices.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 16 January, 2013, 10:37:55 am
The problem with tracks is that all eTrex (h)Cx users get is a line on a map....

To be fair though, the situation now is that we (h)Cx users are outliers.  Look at any sizeable group of cyclists (eg at an event start) and you'll find that we're part of a very small minority now. 
As such it's not really reasonable to tailor any new programming with these old devices in mind.

Similarly - because I often produce GPX files for distribution to groups of cyclists - I've had to review my standards over the last year to produce files that are friendlier towards the new devices.

edges, etc?
As well as what devices they use i'd be interested in how they use them. Do they use mainly use sparse routes, use (or try to use) complex routes, use just tracks, combination of track and route, etc ?
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: PloddinPedro on 16 January, 2013, 10:54:50 am
My two-penn’orth: I’ve always used just a plain Track only, with User Waypoints for Controls and Infos, with Proximity Alerts where relevant. It may be my imagination but I believe the Routing uses more battery power and I’ve never trusted the Garmin unit algorithm to choose the exact roads I want between Route points. And the method of customising waypoints with turn instructions has always seemed too much hassle.

The drawback with my method is that I don’t get a prompt if I go off course, which I am prone to do when my mind wanders and I forget to look at the unit!

Might be a case for a poll of sorts? Question (A) what model of GPS unit do you use? Question (B) do you use: (i) a Track only; (ii) a Route only; (iii) a Route with pop-up “turn” prompts; (iv) a combination of Track and Route. And any other alternatives people can come up with.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 16 January, 2013, 11:01:02 am
Might be a case for a poll of sorts? Question (A) what model of GPS unit do you use? Question (B) do you use: (i) a Track only; (ii) a Route only; (iii) a Route with pop-up “turn” prompts; (iv) a combination of Track and Route. And any other alternatives people can come up with.
I think a new thread on ways you do your navigation would be a good idea, as I'd like to know what others do and I don't want to pull Ben T's thread off the topic of his web service.  I had a browse to see of there was a suitable old thread that discussed all this, but didn't find one (although it gets discussed in many other threads en passant, there's no one dedicated one).
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: PloddinPedro on 16 January, 2013, 06:08:35 pm
..
I think a new thread on ways you do your navigation would be a good idea, as I'd like to know what others do and I don't want to pull Ben T's thread off the topic of his web service.  I had a browse to see of there was a suitable old thread that discussed all this, but didn't find one (although it gets discussed in many other threads en passant, there's no one dedicated one).
I think that's a good idea and I'd start one if I could figure out how to do the poll thing and if I knew what all the options were! :hand:
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 16 January, 2013, 10:52:43 pm
Creating just the track would produce a GPX like your willy warmer 'full' , by the way, the way I'm thinking of doing it. (And this is the exact format of GPX that I like to navigate by - I like having waypoints there if I need them, but I navigate primarily from a track, not a route. Obviously also therefore what I would recommend, although I will provide the 'route' option as well if it's wanted.)

The problem with tracks is that all eTrex (h)Cx users get is a line on a map. A route gives active navigational aides (beeps and popups at junctions). Why not let the user decide which to use by making waypoints, route and track user selectable?

As pppete notes, waypoints should ideally have user editable labels and selectable flags. I color code waypoints to distinguish between standard points, info and controls.

I use wingdb3 to generate a track from the route then copy it into the input gdb

I've published to the test domain http://test.gpxeditor.co.uk
a "Create from waypoints" option.
At the moment it only does routes, not tracks, but will do tracks as well soon.
You drag them from the 'available' to the 'selected' box to choose which waypoints you want to use and drag them to reorder them as well.

I've refactored the marker icons as well slightly, so that the waypoint markers don't obscure the route's start and end markers.
Now, track and route start and end markers are just dots rather than the big google marker icon, with the intermediate route points just being black dots, so now waypoints are the only thing that uses the big google marker icon and they don't get in the way of the routepoints when you use this new feature.
Hopefully this isn't too confusing!

Haven't really tested it that much yet which is why i've only put it in the test domain , once i'm happy with it and i've done it for tracks as well i'll put it in the main site.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 18 January, 2013, 08:09:28 pm
now done for tracks as well as routes and in the main domain.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 22 January, 2013, 04:24:33 pm
I've put the elevation graph on http://test.gpxeditor.co.uk.

I've also refactored the menus so that some things are grouped together into sub menus, this makes it possible to have more features visible more of the time. Previously you had to 'stop drawing' to be able to access some things that are now available all the time.

Sorry to force you to have to get used to a new structure, but slight restructuring is a necessary evil as more things are added. However now I've got the ability to embed menus in submenus, adding new features should be more painless.

One other major improvement I've done is all modifications to tracks via the new 'Edit' menu are now undo-able, via a new menu item that appears at the bottom of the Edit menu when this is possible.
I've also put little arrows on that appear when you hover of a track to more easily tell which direction round it goes.

Another fairly important change is when you reroute, it automatically does a split at the point that you rerouted via (like a 'hard point' in bikehike) so that subsequent reroutes won't undo the effect of the previous reroute.

Next in line is actual numerical stats for elevation and (maybe, if it works) an overlay on the graph to show the change in elevation when rerouting, and then hopefully the routes database ... unless any other suggestions anyone would prefer first.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: PloddinPedro on 22 January, 2013, 05:19:48 pm
I've put the elevation graph on http://text.gpxeditor.co.uk.  ......................
Ben - is there a typo in the link? Should it be "teSt.gpxeditor"?
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 23 January, 2013, 09:34:45 am
I've put the elevation graph on http://text.gpxeditor.co.uk.  ......................
Ben - is there a typo in the link? Should it be "teSt.gpxeditor"?

yes, sorry - http://test.gpxeditor.co.uk.

Updated
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Panoramix on 25 January, 2013, 02:46:07 pm
May be this is a known bug/feature as I haven't read the entire thread.

If I import a track and I then click "create route", the route is completely different from the track. Am I missing something or is this a bug?

It is a French route, the GPX can be found there: http://www.bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=495152
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 25 January, 2013, 02:58:51 pm
May be this is a known bug/feature as I haven't read the entire thread.

If I import a track and I then click "create route", the route is completely different from the track. Am I missing something or is this a bug?

It is a French route, the GPX can be found there: http://www.bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=495152

I couldn't get that to load in gpxeditor.
However I have previously noted that in "car" mode it puts viapoints in places off the track
Try changing to walk or bike before creating the route.

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Panoramix on 25 January, 2013, 03:04:17 pm
May be this is a known bug/feature as I haven't read the entire thread.

If I import a track and I then click "create route", the route is completely different from the track. Am I missing something or is this a bug?

It is a French route, the GPX can be found there: http://www.bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=495152

I couldn't get that to load in gpxeditor.
However I have previously noted that in "car" mode it puts viapoints in places off the track
Try changing to walk or bike before creating the route.

I have tried walk without success, bike doesn't work in France.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 25 January, 2013, 05:25:41 pm
May be this is a known bug/feature as I haven't read the entire thread.

If I import a track and I then click "create route", the route is completely different from the track. Am I missing something or is this a bug?

It is a French route, the GPX can be found there: http://www.bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=495152


I couldn't get that to load in gpxeditor.
However I have previously noted that in "car" mode it puts viapoints in places off the track
Try changing to walk or bike before creating the route.

I have tried walk without success, bike doesn't work in France.

I did eventually manage to load your track, after downsizing it in bikehike to 500 points.
Certainly the results it gives when you create route in car mode are a bit 'odd' but in walk it looked as if all the viapoints were on (or very close to) the track.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 25 January, 2013, 10:39:22 pm
right, the reason it doesn't load is because bikeroutetoaster downloads it with an old schema specification
so if you change the first lines of the file from

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<gpx xmlns="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/0"

to

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<gpx xmlns="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1"

then it loads. (bikeroutetoaster's fault, basically  ;) )

I can probably do something about that.

Panoramix, the create route works by specifying 8 via points per segment. So if there's only one segment in the whole route, then there's only 8 via points in the whole route. If there's 10 segments, that's 80 via points in the whole route - much more accurate.

I just tried it and with it all as one segment the created route goes out of Rennes on the N12, but if I split at Montfort-sur-meu, then click create route, the created route goes out on the D125, I presume that's the route you're more likely to follow. (This is on car mode.)

To split into multiple segments, Right click -> Edit -> Split here. A good starting point is to split at your controls, or every 50k or so. The route will be more likely to follow the track exactly the shorter each segment is.

I'll think about doing it automatically as it does seem a bit of a stumbling block.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 26 January, 2013, 10:17:19 am
Not that it really matters to me (because the site works how I want it to for the most part), but I'm confused  ??? by the "8 points per segment" explanation.

When I load the track I previously filtered down to 500 on bikehike.. it seems to be a single segment.   Without splitting it before route creation:
If I leave in car mode it creates 75 via points (and leaves Rennes on the N12)
If I change to walk it creates 215 via points (and leaves Rennes on the D125
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 26 January, 2013, 11:08:23 am
Not that it really matters to me (because the site works how I want it to for the most part), but I'm confused  ??? by the "8 points per segment" explanation.

When I load the track I previously filtered down to 500 on bikehike.. it seems to be a single segment.   Without splitting it before route creation:
If I leave in car mode it creates 75 via points (and leaves Rennes on the N12)
If I change to walk it creates 215 via points (and leaves Rennes on the D125

Yep, there is still only one segment. The reason it's generating more points is not because there are more segments.

When you use walking mode as opposed to car mode, the set of points that it's asking google for a route through is exactly the same set of 8 points. The difference is that in walking mode, google needs to send back more route points to specify the route correctly, than it does in car mode.

Don't forget I'm not sending google the whole track - I'm only sending it the track reduced to 8 points. This is because it has a limit of 8 via points for a route request.

What it's doing there is saying "give me the route from Rennes back to Rennes, via these 8 points in between - in a car." In other words, if you were driving the audax and the controls were the 8 points that the track reduces to, then that's the way you'd go.
But by splitting it, what you're doing is saying "give me the route from Rennes to Montfort-sur-meu via these 8 points that are between Rennes and Montfort-sur-meu (rather than spread out between Rennes and Rennes) and then, do the same from Montfort-sur-meu and ... (the next place you split it).
If you split it into 5 segments, it's making google do 5 times more work than it is if you leave it as 1.

Why walking gives more points:
To give an analogy: if I drew a track from nottinghamshire to penzance (that just happens to, for the sake of argument, reduce to newark, leicester, coventry, birmingham, gloucester, bristol, exeter) then if you asked me to describe the shortest route there via those 8 places I would say, right - A46, M69, M6, M42, M5, A30. There you go - only 6 route points. But if you asked me to describe the way walking via those *same* 8 places, then it would contain a lot more than those 6 points as you wouldn't go on motorways but would take a much more laney route.
Now, if instead you first asked me to route to leicester, via 8 little villages between here and leicester, then even in car mode it wouldn't just go straight down the A46 because it would have to go through all the little villages.
That is how I intended the create route function to work. And I am hoping users get into the habit of keeping tracks logically grouped into segments as they make sense for other purposes (rerouting, elevation, etc) as well.
However, it's often unclear that (especially with tracks created elsewhere) the splitting process is necessary for the route to be vaguely accurate to the track - so I will look to making it more automatic; it's only a first stab so I can certainly adapt it to make it easier for users.

Using walking mode is sort of "cheating" - it's the wrong way of achieving the end of getting it to generate the increased amount of points that you want. The only reason it's bad is that it could route you down a footpath that is uncycleable (albeit legal in france iirc.) But it's understandable, it's not your fault - I should make it less cumbersome to do it using car mode (which imho it should be), as it is it's a bit of a burden on the user to have to split it down into separate segments in order to get the route to be accurate.

What I will probably do is instead of simply using 8 via points per each segment, use 8 via points per 50km or so - no matter how many segments there are. I suppose it would be good for me to keep my eye on the fact that while the user may want to split tracks into segments, they shouldn't have to understand segments in order to use it.

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 26 January, 2013, 10:08:55 pm
This is great, I've been doing my summer tour route planning on it.  A few comments.


*Locating the positions of hills on the route is something I really want to do.  I do it by guessing the number of km (from the elevation plot) then finding that position usig the "x km" box.  Is there an easier way?
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 26 January, 2013, 10:34:40 pm
This is great, I've been doing my summer tour route planning on it.  A few comments.

  • You don't save the elevation in the gpx file, so if I save it to file then reload it, you've lost the elevation plot. :(
It doesn't save it in the file, no.
Saving it in the file is slightly harder because for reasons that are possibly a bit technical and are best known to google it doesn't have exactly one point on the graph per point on the track.

However, if you reload it, it should just recalculate it again.


Quote
The elevation box often hides the "xkm seg y of z" box, and sometimes you want to see both (eg trying to figure out where the summit of a hill is)*[/li][li]
yes, I've noticed that, I will look into putting it at the bottom right instead of bottom middle/left.


Quote
When you place a waypoint initially, sometimes it is dropped in a really crazy location and you have to drag it a long way to it's ultimate destination.[/li][li]
When you right-click to get the menu up, the position at which you right clicked, that's where the waypoint goes.  :)

Quote
The "Rename" button on the waypoint dialogue would be better named just "OK" because when you first place a waypoint you're not really renaming it.[/li][/list]
OK good point i'll think about that

Quote
*Locating the positions of hills on the route is something I really want to do.  I do it by guessing the number of km (from the elevation plot) then finding that position usig the "x km" box.  Is there an easier way?
Soon I am hoping to have it so that when you click on the graph it will put a marker at the point on the track that that corresponds to.


Thanks for the comments!
[/list]
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 26 January, 2013, 11:40:23 pm
You don't save the elevation in the gpx file, so if I save it to file then reload it, you've lost the elevation plot. :(

It doesn't save it in the file, no.
Saving it in the file is slightly harder because for reasons that are possibly a bit technical and are best known to google it doesn't have exactly one point on the graph per point on the track.

However, if you reload it, it should just recalculate it again.
Doesn't seem to.  Just shows a blank white empty elevation box.  Do I need to do something else?
This is quite important to me because I want to send the routes with elevations to my touring buddies, and I want to keep opening them, fiddling with them, then saving them.

Thanks for the advice on how to create waypoints.

Looking forward to the "find a hilltop" clicky marker feature.

Oh and ctrl-Z as a shortcut for undo last would be good, as it's hardwired in my brain.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: frankly frankie on 27 January, 2013, 10:11:41 am
Ben's developing a really fantastic project here, so the following is in no way dissing what he's done ...

*Locating the positions of hills on the route is something I really want to do.  I do it by guessing the number of km (from the elevation plot) then finding that position usig the "x km" box.  Is there an easier way?

You can save out a Track and then run it through BikeRouteToaster (upload/download) and that will add elevations.  On some GPSs (the Etrex30 is one) you can use 'Where To' to 'navigate' that Track, and if you have the 'Waypoint at Next' and 'Distance to Next' data fields showing, it will automatically mark the next 'high point' and the distance to it.  (Likewise with 'low points'.)
It would look like this except in the box under 'next point' it would say 'high point'.
(http://www.aukadia.net/gps/e30/routing_tr11.jpg)
The same models can also do this:
(http://www.aukadia.net/gps/e30/map-ele-b.jpg)
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Panoramix on 27 January, 2013, 02:01:22 pm

Panoramix, the create route works by specifying 8 via points per segment. So if there's only one segment in the whole route, then there's only 8 via points in the whole route. If there's 10 segments, that's 80 via points in the whole route - much more accurate.

I just tried it and with it all as one segment the created route goes out of Rennes on the N12, but if I split at Montfort-sur-meu, then click create route, the created route goes out on the D125, I presume that's the route you're more likely to follow. (This is on car mode.)

To split into multiple segments, Right click -> Edit -> Split here. A good starting point is to split at your controls, or every 50k or so. The route will be more likely to follow the track exactly the shorter each segment is.

I'll think about doing it automatically as it does seem a bit of a stumbling block.

Thank you, I was unlikely to find the fix on my own but it makes sense now.

Not having the bike mode in France, I ended up amending some bits with Qlandkarte which is why there is just one segment in my track.

If I do the translating bit (you give me a list of word and I translate them), would you consider making it available in French and English?
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 27 January, 2013, 03:47:47 pm
Doesn't seem to.  Just shows a blank white empty elevation box.  Do I need to do something else?
maybe hover over it - but if that doesn't do it then it's probably google's elevation service coming back with UNKNOWN_ERROR, fairly helpfully, which it does on fairly large tracks. I'm going to have a play with it to see if there's a limit as it's ok with a lower amount of points.

If you're touring you've probably gone over the size which causes it to baulk.

I can probably fix it by sending the track to google in smaller portions.



Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Ningishzidda on 28 January, 2013, 01:50:59 pm
I find Microsoft Autoroute 2011 fine for creating and editing GPXs.
( As a ‘wish list’ item, I’ll have to see about Autoroute 2013 ).

I create an .AXE on AR11, and the DIY Administrator checks it on AR05.
I export as a .GPX with minimal points for the Garmin to not get confused.

Getting clever, I have a .AXE which is a template for every DIY. On it, I put a marker on really steep hills I don’t like. If the suggested route goes across a marker, I pick and drag the route to another road.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 28 January, 2013, 02:00:18 pm
I find Microsoft Autoroute 2011 fine for creating and editing GPXs.
( As a ‘wish list’ item, I’ll have to see about Autoroute 2013 ).

I create an .AXE on AR11, and the DIY Administrator checks it on AR05.
I export as a .GPX with minimal points for the Garmin to not get confused.

Getting clever, I have a .AXE which is a template for every DIY. On it, I put a marker on really steep hills I don’t like. If the suggested route goes across a marker, I pick and drag the route to another road.

ON gpxeditor I have a 'reroute' option. (Right click on a track, Edit -> Reroute)
When you reroute and you have the elevation graph showing, it shows the elevation of the proposed path against that of the original path. You can see whether it's higher, and/or longer.

I think it's only in test (http://test.gpxeditor.co.uk) at the moment, but I'll promote it to live when i've tested it more thoroughly and fixed a couple of bugs that I know it's got.
The elevation graph also displays the maximum percentage gradient for a segment. (this is currently in the middle of the graph, but i'm  thinking of moving it to the side with the rest of the stats)

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Ningishzidda on 28 January, 2013, 03:30:55 pm
The 'really steep hills' I don't like are the REALLY steep hills. The ones over 20%.
Other hills are not feared.
I reckon I've covered all the really steep hills I'll be likely to encounter, so knowing elevation changes is secondary to my needs.

Most really steep hills in GB are famous, or infamous, and if I do go somewhere I don't have any knowledge, I Google for 'Steep hills in Norfolk', or wherever.
 ;D
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Bianchi Boy on 28 January, 2013, 07:32:18 pm
Hi,

I have been using the test editor and like the elevation graph. I would like to see the total climbing and a way to re-sample the climbing statistics.

Also is there any plans to save the tracks to a Garmin unit?

Steve
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 28 January, 2013, 10:05:04 pm
I've been working on having stats showing to the left of the graph but haven't published that yet as I've not quite finished it yet.

When you say resampling, do you mean just ask google for the data again? It would come back with the same result.
If you mean get the data for an existing track that you load, then it should do it when you hover over it but might not work currently as google's elevation service seems to baulk if you give it too much data at once, which would be likely to happen if you loaded a track from a file rather than drawing it bit by bit. I can fix this.

The garmin communicator plugin, yes, it probably can be done.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 29 January, 2013, 09:09:34 am
Doesn't seem to. [show elevation graph on reloading from gpx file] Just shows a blank white empty elevation box.  Do I need to do something else?
maybe hover over it - but if that doesn't do it then it's probably google's elevation service coming back with UNKNOWN_ERROR, fairly helpfully, which it does on fairly large tracks. I'm going to have a play with it to see if there's a limit as it's ok with a lower amount of points.

If you're touring you've probably gone over the size which causes it to baulk.

I can probably fix it by sending the track to google in smaller portions.

I've done a minor bit of playing with it and I find that (a) it's not a file size thing - the elevation profile always seems blank when you reload a track from gpx, even a teeny little one and (b) the elevation profile fills itself in if you edit the track (eg add a little bit on the end).
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 29 January, 2013, 10:58:37 am
It won't be file size, it will be , if anything, maximum number of trackpoints in a segment.

Sorry if dev's a bit slower now, the weather's improved! But will definitely get these things tidied up.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Bianchi Boy on 01 February, 2013, 08:20:47 am
I've been working on having stats showing to the left of the graph but haven't published that yet as I've not quite finished it yet.

When you say resampling, do you mean just ask google for the data again? It would come back with the same result.
If you mean get the data for an existing track that you load, then it should do it when you hover over it but might not work currently as google's elevation service seems to baulk if you give it too much data at once, which would be likely to happen if you loaded a track from a file rather than drawing it bit by bit. I can fix this.

The garmin communicator plugin, yes, it probably can be done.

1. I use bike hike and this reads the elevation data as you add points. Sometimes it does not read the elevation data and you need to resample to get this data. Maybe it is a server load thing.

2. The Garmin plug in would make this very complete. I  like the full use of the screen for editing and have to save the track, open bikehike and then save it to my trusty old eTrex.

BB
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Bianchi Boy on 01 February, 2013, 08:27:02 am
Just been planning a route for todays ride and there is a section where you do not follow the road. It is only about 100m. There is a feature in some editors that allow you to do a point to point line and not follow the road. Is that possible with GPX Editor?

BB
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Ningishzidda on 01 February, 2013, 09:14:52 am
I've finally twigged what this thread is all about,,, horray. ;D

Its a third party software package that allows the user to edit a GPX file...  :o

Don't need it. I'll go away.

B4igo, import a GPX onto BikeHike and then Export it as a different name.
Import new named file into Microsoft Autoroute 2011 and all the data points are displayed as waypoints. Chop and change at will.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 01 February, 2013, 10:14:32 am
Just been planning a route for todays ride and there is a section where you do not follow the road. It is only about 100m. There is a feature in some editors that allow you to do a point to point line and not follow the road. Is that possible with GPX Editor?

BB

Yes - either right click, Route to here -> as crow flies (or walking, etc - this changes the routing mode temporarily)

OR, to change the routing mode permanently, click the option on the routing mode selector which is at the bottom right, a little bit in from the left.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Bianchi Boy on 11 February, 2013, 10:01:46 am
I have been playing with the cycle, drive, walk options. I have for a while been wondering about the methods that it uses to choose routes between points.

Is there any explanation of the rules? In cycling it appears to favor minor roads even if this is an extra 10% or so ans a lot hillier.

Great editor - keep up the good work.

BB
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 11 February, 2013, 10:27:15 am
I have been playing with the cycle, drive, walk options. I have for a while been wondering about the methods that it uses to choose routes between points.

Is there any explanation of the rules? In cycling it appears to favor minor roads even if this is an extra 10% or so ans a lot hillier.

Great editor - keep up the good work.

BB

That's a question you'll need to ask google ;D I just call out to google's web service.
So it's exactly the same as if you go on maps.google.com, click 'get directions', and enter a start and end point.
The only difference is if you do it on cycling mode on maps.google.com then it turns the map into a green 'cycle' map, and I've told it not to do that on my site, just because I find it annoying.

Did publish a few bug fixes yesterday, which you might not notice but:
If you used streetview more than once it would throw an error which could knock the menu system out - that's fixed,
The start and end markers were missing when loading a track from a file - that's also fixed,
and certain old versions of gpx namespaces e.g. from bikeroutetoaster were not deserializing correctly - can handle those now and should be a lot more robust generally, so if any gpx has got weird namespaces it doesn't understand it will just strip all the namespaces out and try without them.

Also promoted a couple of the improvements that were in test into main, namely the reorganized menus and the overlay when drawing so that the cursor stays as a crosshair which enables you to do a point on an existing track.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 03 March, 2013, 01:39:11 pm
A little bug for you.

Create a track
Save the track (say as fred.gpx)
Now I want to upload a previously created track next to it.
Select load, enter the file I want to load, say bill.gpx
Instead of uploading bill, it prompts you if you want to download fred.

This is easily worked around.  Just reload the site then load fred.gpx then load bill.gpx and you have the contents of both on display.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 04 March, 2013, 12:29:23 pm
PS - the question of whether it will show the elevation data for a loaded track:  I think my problem was that I was too impatient.  If you load a track or several tracks, then click on one of them, the elevation data should come up ... eventually.  Takes a while.  A nice to have would be to place the name of the track being displayed above the graph.  Then you can be sure which elevation profile is on display.  THere's a bit of latency while it decides what to do, so it can get confusing if you have multiple tracks open.

PPS - the placement of waypoints CAN be bonkers. 
When you right-click to get the menu up, the position at which you right clicked, that's where the waypoint goes.  :)
Yesterday it placed a waypoint off my current screen, so it can't have been where I right clicked.  But I can't provide a reproducible error scenario.

PPPS - a very minor irritation.  Sometimes I right click and bring up the menu by mistake.  Then I can't get rid of the darn thing without doing something.  Cancel option would be handy. Or is there a key to cancel that I'm not using?

And to finish on a positive note:  I really like the reroute option!
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 04 March, 2013, 01:13:40 pm
A little bug for you.

Create a track
Save the track (say as fred.gpx)
Now I want to upload a previously created track next to it.
Select load, enter the file I want to load, say bill.gpx
Instead of uploading bill, it prompts you if you want to download fred.

This is easily worked around.  Just reload the site then load fred.gpx then load bill.gpx and you have the contents of both on display.

yes, funnily enough I discovered that one myself only the other day!

I haven't had chance to do much on it lately as i've been trying to build an auto strava uploader ;)

But I've refactored the elevation so it's a lot more reliable, it just uses a google chart which looks a bit nicer anyway.

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 08 March, 2013, 11:08:54 am
I've not been keeping up with developments on this project, and just thought I'd have a read of the blog to bring myself up back up to speed and learn how to use the elevation stuff.... but I got this:

blog.gpxeditor.co.uk Website Holding Page

This is the default web hosting holding page. If you see this page it means:

    Hosting for this domain name is not configured
    This domain name has only just been registered
    The website owner has not uploaded their website

Is the documentation/helpstuff somewhere else now ?
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 08 March, 2013, 12:25:05 pm
Pete - sorry, no, I've binned the blog as I havent' got time to update it as well as the site.
In truth it will eventually be replaced by just a static site of documentation and guides, but it will probably have to wait till I can't think of any pressing features I need to add, becasue if I've got some spare time to work on it I'd rather work on features than documentation, and have people ask if they need any help using it.
I'll remove the blog link and probably replace it with an email link this weekend.

Where I'm currently up to with it is I've done elevation in a more reliable way (google chart) but  not published it yet, so I'm hoping to do that this weekend, and I'm also hoping to do some features that should make it more friendly for editing ridden tracks as well as planned ones (i.e., it will respect times and elevations within the track, and download them if they were in the uploaded track.)

I might also fix the route generation if it doesn't piss me off too much ;) I managed to get it to work ok by splitting it into small enough segments but then google spat its dummy out that I had gone over its requests-per-minute limit, so I am hoping it will work with a wait timer - that means it will be quite slow but that won't be too bad as there can be an accurate progress bar.

I'm also hoping to enable logging in and start on strava-like functionality of storing ridden tracks for logged in users, as well as potentially a routes database. (That might will take longer than this weekend though :) )
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 08 March, 2013, 12:30:16 pm
KEWWL !

You do realize you've long since made the article I wrote for Arrivee out-of-date long before it gets published ?    ;D
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 09 March, 2013, 10:22:38 am
if any users can please use the .co.uk domain for now, i'm faffing about with the .com one.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: contango on 09 March, 2013, 03:19:07 pm
The problem with tracks is that all eTrex (h)Cx users get is a line on a map....

To be fair though, the situation now is that we (h)Cx users are outliers.  Look at any sizeable group of cyclists (eg at an event start) and you'll find that we're part of a very small minority now. 
As such it's not really reasonable to tailor any new programming with these old devices in mind.

Similarly - because I often produce GPX files for distribution to groups of cyclists - I've had to review my standards over the last year to produce files that are friendlier towards the new devices.

edges, etc?
As well as what devices they use i'd be interested in how they use them. Do they use mainly use sparse routes, use (or try to use) complex routes, use just tracks, combination of track and route, etc ?

Just reading through this thread, having only just realised it's about a new project and not something that wants a one-line response like "try bikehike.co.uk"

I route using a Garmin Montana. It's a bit of a brick on the handlebars but when I've got less than 50 pounds of fat around my middle I'll worry about the weight of my devices. That said...

I use the OSM maps and the routing on them varies from useful to worse than useless. I've had it tell me to turn onto a trail that had six-foot high metal barriers, no cycling signs, and nettles either side of a dirt path barely six inches wide. I've had it figure a 6 mile route to get to a place that's a mile away along a single road.

I plan a route using bikeroutetoaster and then check it out in detail using Google Maps with Street View as appropriate. If it's going to take me onto anything that isn't a road I'll check it out to see what kind of trail it is, and use extra points to force a reroute if appropriate. If it's going to take me on what looks like a main road I'll check it out to see speed limits, road width etc. The last thing I want is to be on a road like the A27 out of Romsey with a 60 limit, inadequate space to overtake a cyclist and not even room to pull over and let the inevitable queues pass every once in a while.

On the Montana when I tell it to navigate a route it gives me a nice fat purple line to follow. It still doesn't beep at every turn (although I gather with a more recent firmware version it will transfer a route precisely from Basecamp to the Montana and not recalculate it, as long as the maps are identical) but it's generally not hard to follow a big fat purple line on the map. There have been times when I've zoned out a bit and not turned when I should but if I'm going to do that the chances are I'll also miss a beep to tell me to turn. Luckily I've never had a major issue getting back on track when I've wandered off.

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 12 March, 2013, 01:32:45 pm
OK testers:

I've published quite a lot of changes at the weekend.


That's about it for visible stuff but I have also done some preparatory work for being able to upload tracks and have strava-like functionality.

If you notice any bugs please let me know, either post here or pm me or email admin at gpxeditor dot co dot uk, Pete I know you've already let me know of one thanks for that, I'll get onto that asap.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 13 March, 2013, 11:56:19 pm
Fixed a couple of bugs (thanks PpPete and Fidgetbuzz :) )

main improvement I've made is that it now doesnt' strip out time and elevation data needed for validation when redownloading a track after editing. This seems to work ok now here but if anybody has any problems with it please let me know.

Also the OS mapping seems to work now as well  :thumbsup: (you can't draw when on it though unfortunately due to OS's anal licensing restrictions  :-[)

I've also published it to www.gpxeditor.com and www.gpxeditor.co.uk which are both on different servers, it's exactly the same code on each now so you can use either, I'd be interested to know if anybody notices .com to be slower than .co.uk. I'm planning to bin one of the hosts off (probably the one that .com is on, and just repoint the domain) and just carry on with the other.

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 18 March, 2013, 09:40:55 am
Have made quite a few changes yesterday mainly to give the ability to log in, you can't actually DO anything extra yet as a logged in user, but you can log in. :)
This is to pave the way for the ability to save routes, both publically and privately.
So you shouldn't really notice any changes since before the weekend, but if I have broken anything that worked before I've put the previous version on http://test.gpxeditor.co.uk.


Also just got round to picking up a few of these points:

This is great, I've been doing my summer tour route planning on it.  A few comments.

  • You don't save the elevation in the gpx file, so if I save it to file then reload it, you've lost the elevation plot. :(

Should be ok now, if you upload a track that has elevations and times in it - then re download it, they should still be in.


Quote
The elevation box often hides the "xkm seg y of z" box, and sometimes you want to see both (eg trying to figure out where the summit of a hill is)*[/li][li]


I've put the elevation panel at the right. Also if you click on the line, it will highlight the position of that hill on the map.

Quote
The "Rename" button on the waypoint dialogue would be better named just "OK" because when you first place a waypoint you're not really renaming it.[/li][/list]

Agree - done.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 18 March, 2013, 10:03:22 pm
Just had a quick 5 minute play.  I love the "where's that hill" feature.  So useful.  Will comment more later.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 19 March, 2013, 12:02:50 pm
Not sure if the problem is at this end, but I can't get it to "save all" after creating a track and route this morning.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 19 March, 2013, 12:23:01 pm
Also if you click on the line, it will highlight the position of that hill on the map.

This doesn't seem to work for me, although the equivalent on other programs does.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 19 March, 2013, 12:56:42 pm
Not sure if the problem is at this end, but I can't get it to "save all" after creating a track and route this morning.

Does it give you any error message, or does it just not download at all?
Can you download files ok from other sites?
also, have you got 'Contact' and 'Log in' links at the top? If not, you've probably got an old (i.e. cached ) version (try Ctrl-F5). What browser are you using?
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 19 March, 2013, 01:00:18 pm
Also if you click on the line, it will highlight the position of that hill on the map.

This doesn't seem to work for me, although the equivalent on other programs does.

Does it still put a little dot on the line as you move the mouse over it?
And is the elevation graph at the right, or still at the left?
also, have you got 'Contact' and 'Log in' links at the top? If not, (and/or if the elevation graph's still at the left) you've probably got an old (i.e. cached ) version (try Ctrl-F5). What browser are you using?

Does it not work with any track, or just a specific one?
If you can reproduce it not working from just from loading a gpx (and not drawing it or editing it in any way) and you can email me that gpx then I'll probably be able to find out why.



Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 19 March, 2013, 01:16:17 pm
Not sure if the problem is at this end, but I can't get it to "save all" after creating a track and route this morning.

Does it give you any error message, or does it just not download at all?
Can you download files ok from other sites?
also, have you got 'Contact' and 'Log in' links at the top? If not, you've probably got an old (i.e. cached ) version (try Ctrl-F5). What browser are you using?

Yes, I have contact and log in links. The browser is Safari. When clicking save all, it brought me to an error page.

Having said all that, I wonder if there was a problem with my chosen file name or the route itself, as it is working now - albeit with a simple test route. I'll repeat it shortly with a similar track and route that produced the error.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 19 March, 2013, 01:28:30 pm
Not sure if the problem is at this end, but I can't get it to "save all" after creating a track and route this morning.

Does it give you any error message, or does it just not download at all?
Can you download files ok from other sites?
also, have you got 'Contact' and 'Log in' links at the top? If not, you've probably got an old (i.e. cached ) version (try Ctrl-F5). What browser are you using?

Yes, I have contact and log in links. The browser is Safari. When clicking save all, it brought me to an error page.

Having said all that, I wonder if there was a problem with my chosen file name or the route itself, as it is working now - albeit with a simple test route. I'll repeat it shortly with a similar track and route that produced the error.

OK, thanks. If it generated a server error it should log it, so i'll check if it logged anything.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 19 March, 2013, 01:30:45 pm
Ah yes, it did say an error message had been sent.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 19 March, 2013, 02:25:23 pm
Also if you click on the line, it will highlight the position of that hill on the map.

This doesn't seem to work for me, although the equivalent on other programs does.

Does it still put a little dot on the line as you move the mouse over it?

Yes little dot on elevation line - now't that I could see on the map

And is the elevation graph at the right, or still at the left?
Bottom right

also, have you got 'Contact' and 'Log in' links at the top?

Yes

What browser are you using?

Firefox

Does it not work with any track, or just a specific one?
I just redrew one my short local rides to have a look at the elevation stuff which I'd not really played with before.


EDIT.... I just realised where I went wrong.
I didn't realise I had to click on the elevation plot.   
From experience with other sites I was expecting the marker on the map to "track" any movement of the curser on the plot.
On reflection I like your system better.
 
 
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 19 March, 2013, 02:35:08 pm
Yes sorry you have to click on it. I don't think the google chart has a hover event, I did try it but when I found it didn't I made it handle click and I must admit I like it better as well.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 19 March, 2013, 04:23:01 pm
Yes sorry you have to click on it. I don't think the google chart has a hover event, I did try it but when I found it didn't I made it handle click and I must admit I like it better as well.
I much prefer having to click on it.  I don't like those arrangements that automagically pan the map when you hover over the profile.  I especially don't like it when they do it when you accidentally hover over the profile and your map goes crazy.  A single click is a much more positive, planned action.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: gibbo on 19 March, 2013, 05:19:50 pm
Hi - I can't seem to get any of the links to the editor to work, all I get is a light blue(ish) page.
Gibbo.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 19 March, 2013, 05:23:42 pm
Hi - I can't seem to get any of the links to the editor to work, all I get is a light blue(ish) page.
Gibbo.

That'll be your browser version I think (but I could be wrong).  I get the blue page on an old laptop, but the full site on more up to date machines with latest browsers.

Which may lead to an enhancement request for it to put up a screen saying "your browser is too old, you need xyz" if it detects  a wrong browser.  If indeed that is the problem.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: gibbo on 19 March, 2013, 05:35:44 pm
Hi - I can't seem to get any of the links to the editor to work, all I get is a light blue(ish) page.
Gibbo.

That'll be your browser version I think (but I could be wrong).  I get the blue page on an old laptop, but the full site on more up to date machines with latest browsers.

Which may lead to an enhancement request for it to put up a screen saying "your browser is too old, you need xyz" if it detects  a wrong browser.  If indeed that is the problem.
Browser is Internet Explorer 8.
Gibbo.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 19 March, 2013, 05:40:31 pm
Browser is Internet Explorer 8.
Gibbo.
Maybe that's not the problem ... just me guessing.  Best wait for Ben T to come along.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Feanor on 19 March, 2013, 05:47:21 pm
IE9 on Win7 here, I also just get a blank light blue backgroung with nothing on it.

Stuffs load OK in Chrome, so it looks like some browser-version dependency.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 19 March, 2013, 11:27:14 pm
Tried IE8 on Win7, I also just get a blank light blue backgroung with nothing on it.

Works fine on Firefox(19) which is my default browser and Chrome(25) which I use if Firefox misbehaves.  IE is the work of Stan.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 20 March, 2013, 02:29:50 pm
OK I think I know the issue with IE, having a look.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 20 March, 2013, 02:37:32 pm
ok I think I've fixed the IE issue.

I had made a mistake in part of the code, but in some code that is only necessary in the first place to code round IE's weirdness. So it is still definitely IE's fault. ;)
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: gibbo on 20 March, 2013, 02:40:26 pm
ok I think I've fixed the IE issue.

I had made a mistake in part of the code, but in some code that is only necessary in the first place to code round IE's weirdness. So it is still definitely IE's fault. ;)

I think you still need to blame IE as mine is still not working. IE8 on WinXP but didn't work on IE8 on Win7 either.
Gibbo.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: ran doner on 20 March, 2013, 02:47:40 pm
I just got the light blue screen on IE9 / Win 7.

Just F5 refreshed and it was OK.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 20 March, 2013, 02:51:32 pm
ok I think I've fixed the IE issue.

I had made a mistake in part of the code, but in some code that is only necessary in the first place to code round IE's weirdness. So it is still definitely IE's fault. ;)

I think you still need to blame IE as mine is still not working. IE8 on WinXP but didn't work on IE8 on Win7 either.
Gibbo.

try pressing Ctrl+F5, IE has a nasty habit of caching old versions.
If that doesn't work, try clearing your cache by pressing Ctrl+Shift+Delete, and leave just "Temporary Internet Files" checked (uncheck the others if you want), click Delete, and then browse to the site again, and let me know what it does.
If it still doesn't work then I will investigate if there is something about IE8 that it doesn't like.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: gibbo on 20 March, 2013, 02:58:55 pm
ok I think I've fixed the IE issue.

I had made a mistake in part of the code, but in some code that is only necessary in the first place to code round IE's weirdness. So it is still definitely IE's fault. ;)

I think you still need to blame IE as mine is still not working. IE8 on WinXP but didn't work on IE8 on Win7 either.
Gibbo.

try pressing Ctrl+F5, IE has a nasty habit of caching old versions.
If that doesn't work, try clearing your cache by pressing Ctrl+Shift+Delete, and leave just "Temporary Internet Files" checked (uncheck the others if you want), click Delete, and then browse to the site again, and let me know what it does.
If it still doesn't work then I will investigate if there is something about IE8 that it doesn't like.

Hi - tried both as suggested but no use. I did get a nano second screen change with what appeared to be text but too quick to see anything before returning to blueish screen. By the way shouting at it doesn't work either.
Gibbo.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 21 March, 2013, 12:13:42 am
Hi - tried both as suggested but no use. I did get a nano second screen change with what appeared to be text but too quick to see anything before returning to blueish screen. By the way shouting at it doesn't work either.
Gibbo.

ok gibbo,
can you try it again (press Ctrl+F5 for a full refresh), and if it still doesn't work, can you please tell me:
* does it say "You have JavaScript turned off, please turn it on in order to view this site"
* is it now pink instead of blue
?
cheers



I have noticed one of the issues with uploading in IE was due to the advert. It was just generally a bit flaky, it has various technical issues I don't like aswell  (it refuses to use https, it uses an iframe and it outputs spurious errors to the console) so I have removed it.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 21 March, 2013, 09:57:49 am
My IE8 now goes pink.  No warning about Javascript.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: ran doner on 21 March, 2013, 10:26:31 am
I just retried in IE9 and it now gets the pink screen for a millisecond-ish then loads, no refresh required.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 21 March, 2013, 10:35:27 am
OK it definitely sounds like an issue with IE8 then. gibbo and Toady both have IE8 and for both it doesn't work, ran doner, myself, and others have IE9 and it works.
I will have a look but to see if I can 'downgrade' to IE8 and see what's going on.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 21 March, 2013, 10:44:12 am
I don't actually use it on IE8, so I'm all right Jack.  But I have access to one to test it when you need.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: gibbo on 21 March, 2013, 01:14:26 pm
Hi - tried both as suggested but no use. I did get a nano second screen change with what appeared to be text but too quick to see anything before returning to blueish screen. By the way shouting at it doesn't work either.
Gibbo.

ok gibbo,
can you try it again (press Ctrl+F5 for a full refresh), and if it still doesn't work, can you please tell me:
* does it say "You have JavaScript turned off, please turn it on in order to view this site"
* is it now pink instead of blue
?
cheers



I have noticed one of the issues with uploading in IE was due to the advert. It was just generally a bit flaky, it has various technical issues I don't like aswell  (it refuses to use https, it uses an iframe and it outputs spurious errors to the console) so I have removed it.

Loaded the page (no refresh) and the page is pink. Shift + F5 and the page remains pink, no warning about java though.

For reference the following options are set:
Java console enabled is not checked neither is Java loggin enabled but JIT compiler for virtual machine enabled is.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 21 March, 2013, 01:40:40 pm
Yes it's an issue with IE8, I get the same in IE8. Can you use chrome or firefox for the time being..?
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: gibbo on 21 March, 2013, 05:40:21 pm
Yes it's an issue with IE8, I get the same in IE8. Can you use chrome or firefox for the time being..?

'fraid not - works laptop but I am changing jobs soon so may have the option to change.
Gibbo.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 22 March, 2013, 05:08:17 pm
Yes it's an issue with IE8, I get the same in IE8. Can you use chrome or firefox for the time being..?

'fraid not - works laptop but I am changing jobs soon so may have the option to change.
Gibbo.

alright. Might have time to sort it this weekend anyway, what with the weather being shite and  not bothering doing the dean an' all
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 24 March, 2013, 06:11:11 pm
Rename track not working.  It retains the original name (I'm using Chrome at the moment by the way)

Also just had "Sorry, an error occurred while processing your request.  The administrator of the site has been notified of this error." While doing a "save all".  At about 19:10
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Oaky on 24 March, 2013, 10:30:56 pm
Also just had "Sorry, an error occurred while processing your request.  The administrator of the site has been notified of this error." While doing a "save all".  At about 19:10

I've had a couple of those recently, but put it down to me having done a load of messing around with tracks (splitting, re-routing, rejoining, lather-rinse-repeat...). 

It's almost certainly not relevant, but I only saw these since the login feature was added (and whilst logged in via Google credentials).  I didn't try the same operations while not logged in to see if there was any difference.  I expect that this information is a red-herring.

The site is really cool, and I can easily see it becoming my first go-to for route construction/translation to usable GPX.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 25 March, 2013, 01:57:38 pm
Rename track not working.  It retains the original name (I'm using Chrome at the moment by the way)

Also just had "Sorry, an error occurred while processing your request.  The administrator of the site has been notified of this error." While doing a "save all".  At about 19:10

ok fixed rename. Might have to do Ctrl+F5/clear cache depending on how cache-heavy your browser is.


Also just had "Sorry, an error occurred while processing your request.  The administrator of the site has been notified of this error." While doing a "save all".  At about 19:10

I've had a couple of those recently, but put it down to me having done a load of messing around with tracks (splitting, re-routing, rejoining, lather-rinse-repeat...). 

It's almost certainly not relevant, but I only saw these since the login feature was added (and whilst logged in via Google credentials).  I didn't try the same operations while not logged in to see if there was any difference.  I expect that this information is a red-herring.

The site is really cool, and I can easily see it becoming my first go-to for route construction/translation to usable GPX.

no, that's not a red herring that could well be relevant. Thanks


Am having a bit of a problem with the logging at the moment so am going to have to roll my own as the logger I've put in isn't working and I've no way of finding out why. Once I've put a simple, working logger in I should know what any errors you get are. They're probably all the same one, to be honest.

I'm going to turn custom errors off, this means the error screen will be a lot less pretty but it will hopefully be dscriptive. So if anybody gets an error message could you please screenshot the screen or save it as html and send it to me please - at admin@gpxeditor.co.uk. THis (mainly) applies to the error that is caused when doing save all.

many thanks

I'll also look at putting some UI tests in to increase the robustness.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 25 March, 2013, 01:59:43 pm
It should also now work (ish) in IE8

It wouldn't render properly in IE7 though (and certainly won't in 6) and I didn't think it worth the time making it work in IE7, so you should give a 'get a better browser' message if you try to access it with IE7 or less.

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 25 March, 2013, 02:09:56 pm
It should also now work (ish) in IE8

It wouldn't render properly in IE7 though (and certainly won't in 6) and I didn't think it worth the time making it work in IE7, so you should give a 'get a better browser' message if you try to access it with IE7 or less.
Displays OK on my IE8.  Don't have time to tell you if it actually works, but it doesn't give the pink screen any more.

PS.  Another save all problem.  I have 3 routes, but I just get an empty gpx element:

Code: [Select]
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<gpx xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1 http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1/gpx.xsd" creator="GPXEditor" version="1.1" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1" />

And that is all. 

Background is I loaded a file of 3 routes, drew 3 new ones and deleted the originals as I replaced them with new versions.  Then tried to save.  Attempts to save individual routes give same empty result
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 26 March, 2013, 01:20:40 pm
Ok thanks Toady - test.gpxeditor.co.uk hasn't got that bug, but (I think) it has still got the 'antiforgery token could not be decrypted' one, although I often don't get that so you could try test, you might be lucky and not get it either, i think it may be browser dependent.
If you get the antiforgery token one on test as well I'd be keen to hear about it but otherwise I should be able to fix the empty gpx element problem tonight as I can reproduce that.

Will get more stable as it gets more mature, thanks to your letting me know of this stuff. Especially since the work going into the actual mapping functionality is now all bug fixes and not new features, all the new features now for the foreseeable are all going to be along the lines of a route database and a 'my rides' section.

cheers
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: gibbo on 26 March, 2013, 04:28:20 pm
It should also now work (ish) in IE8

It wouldn't render properly in IE7 though (and certainly won't in 6) and I didn't think it worth the time making it work in IE7, so you should give a 'get a better browser' message if you try to access it with IE7 or less.

Thanks for that Ben. Will start having a play.
Cheers,
Gibbo.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 26 March, 2013, 11:10:14 pm
It should also now work (ish) in IE8

It wouldn't render properly in IE7 though (and certainly won't in 6) and I didn't think it worth the time making it work in IE7, so you should give a 'get a better browser' message if you try to access it with IE7 or less.
Displays OK on my IE8.  Don't have time to tell you if it actually works, but it doesn't give the pink screen any more.

PS.  Another save all problem.  I have 3 routes, but I just get an empty gpx element:

Code: [Select]
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<gpx xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1 http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1/gpx.xsd" creator="GPXEditor" version="1.1" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1" />

And that is all. 

Background is I loaded a file of 3 routes, drew 3 new ones and deleted the originals as I replaced them with new versions.  Then tried to save.  Attempts to save individual routes give same empty result

fixed.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 27 March, 2013, 02:46:17 pm
Any chance of an UNDELETE track/route option ?
Busy editing some viapoints, renaming, adding, deleting.... and didnt spot I was deleting the whole chuffin route not just a point.   :facepalm:
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 27 March, 2013, 02:49:27 pm
Any chance of an UNDELETE track/route option ?
Busy editing some viapoints, renaming, adding, deleting.... and didnt spot I was deleting the whole chuffin route not just a point.   :facepalm:
I've done that.  If undelete is too much faff, a quick "Are you sure you want to delete route XYZ" dialog box would be handy.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 27 March, 2013, 03:01:40 pm
Yep, should be doable :)
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 14 April, 2013, 04:49:17 pm
Put some guides up
http://www.gpxeditor.co.uk/guides

these will eventually be the front page once I've put the necessary link to the map in place.

These will of course be added to as time goes on.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: hulver on 15 April, 2013, 02:20:43 pm
Any chance of an UNDELETE track/route option ?
Busy editing some viapoints, renaming, adding, deleting.... and didnt spot I was deleting the whole chuffin route not just a point.   :facepalm:

Yep, I've done that about 3 times. It's quite frustrating.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: hulver on 15 April, 2013, 02:23:57 pm
I've been playing around with this, and it's pretty good. It's almost become my route editor of choice now.

One thing that I would love, would be able to convert a route into a track. I realise that this would be a monumental pain in the arse to do, as you'd have to go over each route point, calculate the route between them and convert to a track. It would be great though, and fantastic for getting a better idea of the true elevation and distance of a route.

You would then be able to support the gpxx format as well, which is basically a route, with added track points.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 15 April, 2013, 03:43:02 pm
I've been playing around with this, and it's pretty good. It's almost become my route editor of choice now.

One thing that I would love, would be able to convert a route into a track. I realise that this would be a monumental pain in the arse to do, as you'd have to go over each route point, calculate the route between them and convert to a track. It would be great though, and fantastic for getting a better idea of the true elevation and distance of a route.

You would then be able to support the gpxx format as well, which is basically a route, with added track points.

Thanks hulver,
I'm not sure I'm understanding you correctly but I think what you perceive to be a monumental pain in the arse to do, i.e. "go over each route point, calculate the route between them..." is already there.
If you have got a track, right click on the track and choose 'create route'. It then goes off to google's routing algorithm and says - give me a route that goes through the points on this track. The only caveat is that it doesn't feed EVERY point in the track into the routing request, it thins it out first. The produced route may not be exactly correct, but it largely places the route points on junctions, and it gives you a 'starter for 10', it should then only take a bit of dragging about and deleting and inserting and you have got a usable route.
It was a bit of a pain in the arse to do, but not too bad.

The only thing it doesn't do is embed route into track as gpxx extension (fairly easy, will do it soon) and straight route-to-track conversion (again, fairly easy).

In fact if you upload a route with a large number of route points it makes the browser fairly sluggish as it has to generate a map element for the dot for each route point, which eats memory, so I'm thinking of putting a message up saying 'this route has a large number of routepoints, do you want to load it as a track instead'.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: hulver on 15 April, 2013, 03:48:25 pm
Cool.

Easier than I thought then.

Now I just need to stop deleting tracks when I've almost completed them by trying to edit them. ;D
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 15 April, 2013, 03:49:13 pm
I've been playing around with this, and it's pretty good. It's almost become my route editor of choice now.

One thing that I would love, would be able to convert a route into a track. I realise that this would be a monumental pain in the arse to do, as you'd have to go over each route point, calculate the route between them and convert to a track. It would be great though, and fantastic for getting a better idea of the true elevation and distance of a route.

You would then be able to support the gpxx format as well, which is basically a route, with added track points.

Thanks hulver,
I'm not sure I'm understanding you correctly but I think what you perceive to be a monumental pain in the arse to do, i.e. "go over each route point, calculate the route between them..." is already there.
If you have got a track, right click on the track and choose 'create route'. It then goes off to google's routing algorithm and says - give me a route that goes through the points on this track. The only caveat is that it doesn't feed EVERY point in the track into the routing request, it thins it out first. The produced route may not be exactly correct, but it largely places the route points on junctions, and it gives you a 'starter for 10', it should then only take a bit of dragging about and deleting and inserting and you have got a usable route.
It was a bit of a pain in the arse to do, but not too bad.

The only thing it doesn't do is embed route into track as gpxx extension (fairly easy, will do it soon) and straight route-to-track conversion (again, fairly easy).

In fact if you upload a route with a large number of route points it makes the browser fairly sluggish as it has to generate a map element for the dot for each route point, which eats memory, so I'm thinking of putting a message up saying 'this route has a large number of routepoints, do you want to load it as a track instead'.

Oh, sorry. I've just re-read it and I think I understand what you mean now. You want to go the other way to what my 'Create Route' does - i.e. you've already got a (sparse) route and you want to make it into a track, but fill in in between the sparse bits to make it follow roads.

Right - no, that's not that difficult to do at all, but it does come with the obvious warning that you have to pick a routing mode - i.e. driving, walking, or cycling - and it will use that for each request. So if you have it on driving, you may get a bit of dual carriage way somewhere that  you didn't want (although I do use 'avoid highways' for all driving mode requests), and if you have it on walking, you may get a bit of footpath that you didn't want.
In short, you'll have to check the result and make sure it corresponds with what you expected. You'll be able to re-route segments as and where necessary if it's not.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: hulver on 15 April, 2013, 05:13:43 pm
Oh, sorry. I've just re-read it and I think I understand what you mean now. You want to go the other way to what my 'Create Route' does - i.e. you've already got a (sparse) route and you want to make it into a track, but fill in in between the sparse bits to make it follow roads.

Right - no, that's not that difficult to do at all, but it does come with the obvious warning that you have to pick a routing mode - i.e. driving, walking, or cycling - and it will use that for each request. So if you have it on driving, you may get a bit of dual carriage way somewhere that  you didn't want (although I do use 'avoid highways' for all driving mode requests), and if you have it on walking, you may get a bit of footpath that you didn't want.
In short, you'll have to check the result and make sure it corresponds with what you expected. You'll be able to re-route segments as and where necessary if it's not.

Ah, yep. That's what I was after. If the section of the track in between each route point was a segment that could be re-routed that would be awesome. I tend to find with other gpx editors, that it's almost impossible to edit the track after you've created it. One wrong click and the whole thing goes wrong in some way, and with no undo, your hours of work are gone.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 15 April, 2013, 07:55:44 pm
OK. You can reroute a segment of a track now. Right click on the segment you want to reroute, choose 'Reroute segment' and then move the mouse around gently and it will reroute through the point where the mouse is.
I'll get round to writing a proper guide to how to do it soon.
It needs to know how much of the track you want to reroute, however. For this, the segment boundaries have to be correct. It will reroute one segment, no more, no less.
So you need to do a right click (on the track) -> Split Here, at the point just before you want to reroute, and right click -> Edit -> Split Here, at the point after the bit you want to reroute.

Then right click on the segment* that is the bit you want to reroute and click Edit -> Reroute segment, and drag the mouse.

Roughly, segment splits are like bikehike's 'hard points', and 'reroute segment' is the rough equivalent of bikehike's 'drag edit mode'.


Also, most "Edit" operations (like reroute, reduce - basically things on the edit menu) on a track are undo-able - the "Undo xxx" menu item should appear at the bottom of the edit menu when you've done something you can undo.

* if it's multiple segments, to join them up:
 - make sure you're not currently in drawing mode (crosshair cursor), if so, Right click -> Stop Drawing
 - (left) click the first of the segments to join up
 - right click the last of the segments to join up, and from the menu choose Edit -> Join Selected Segments
 - they are now one segment





btw I've just done the Undo Delete function, that was pretty easy but any probs let me know.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 15 April, 2013, 08:02:43 pm
The only caveat I will say is that if you Load a track from a file, that wipes the 'Undo' memory, so you can't delete a track, load another one, then undo delete. But I get the impression you're likely to realize fairly soon after when it disappears!
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: hulver on 16 April, 2013, 07:28:50 am
Awesome, thanks. I'm looking forward to having a play with it.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 27 April, 2013, 08:56:12 am
I've been using this quite a bit and am gradually building up my route editing skills.  Very happy with it.

Another small suggestion - it could be nice to have a pure relief map available.  It can be quite instructive to be able to look at the terrain without any other detail shown.  For example the one here:

http://maps-for-free.com/

I quite often have maps-for-free open in another tab while route planning.  You can have "eureka" moments - so that's why it's so hilly if I turn left there, there's a spit of high land sticking out into a plain.  That kind of thing.  You often don't notice the topography on a map cluttered with towns, roads, this that and the other.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: IbisTouche on 03 May, 2013, 11:16:35 am
Dorte andI have been playing around with the program for the last days. We are needing a way to get from the automatic mode where the track/route is drawn to the manual mode: to draw a track over fx a bicycle path, a path in a forrest or something like that - sometimes we only need  10 meters to make a track perfect!
Carsten & Dorte
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 03 May, 2013, 02:32:52 pm
Dorte andI have been playing around with the program for the last days. We are needing a way to get from the automatic mode where the track/route is drawn to the manual mode: to draw a track over fx a bicycle path, a path in a forrest or something like that - sometimes we only need  10 meters to make a track perfect!
Carsten & Dorte
Draw your track as normal up to the start of the bike path/unmarked trail
Switch to "crow flies" mode (click on the bird at the right of the icons down bottom right, car, walking figure, bike, flying bird ).
Click to the end of your unmarked bit.  You will get a dead straight line.
Now return to your chosen automatic mode (car, walking, bike).

If you wanted to follow a bike path, say, as wiggled around you could put in a series of points which would be all joined up with straght lines.

HTH
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: vorsprung on 03 May, 2013, 03:17:12 pm
I didn't realise that gpxeditor was your project, I quite like it

The only buggette I've noticed is when rerouting, in one place it doesn't correctly deal with dual carriageways.  I have a situation where attempting to reroute so that the end of the segment is on a dual carriage leads to "looping" up the dual carriage and back

If this sounds wildly interesting I can email you the file that does this
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: IbisTouche on 04 May, 2013, 04:57:40 am
Dorte andI have been playing around with the program for the last days. We are needing a way to get from the automatic mode where the track/route is drawn to the manual mode: to draw a track over fx a bicycle path, a path in a forrest or something like that - sometimes we only need  10 meters to make a track perfect!
Carsten & Dorte
Draw your track as normal up to the start of the bike path/unmarked trail
Switch to "crow flies" mode (click on the bird at the right of the icons down bottom right, car, walking figure, bike, flying bird ).
Click to the end of your unmarked bit.  You will get a dead straight line.
Now return to your chosen automatic mode (car, walking, bike).

If you wanted to follow a bike path, say, as wiggled around you could put in a series of points which would be all joined up with straght lines.

HTH

Oh yes,

now I understand how to do this
thanks
Carsten
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: TimC on 04 May, 2013, 09:23:06 am
I've been using your site with my Macs various, and have a couple of comments.

Right click: always, always results in the map zooming out as well as the (required) menu coming up.

IPad use: doesn't work, cos you can't right click with an iPad.

The crow-flies thing is useful, because occasionally I've found that the routing logic won't let me cross an A-road where I want to and will re-route me several miles to cross where it wants to! That's using OSM - it seems less picky using Google maps.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: toontra on 04 May, 2013, 09:36:28 am
I've been using your site with my Macs various, and have a couple of comments.

Right click: always, always results in the map zooming out as well as the (required) menu coming up.


For me the right-click/zoom thing only happens with Firefox.  Safari has other issues where the screen locks up and no input is possible.  Chrome is the only browser on Mac that I don't seem to have problems with so that's what I'm using at the moment.  I guess these issues could be due to 3rd party extensions, ad blockers, etc.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: TimC on 04 May, 2013, 09:46:22 am
Ah, interesting - I use Firefox too. I'll try it with other browsers when I get the chance.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 05 May, 2013, 12:12:50 am
Never had a problem with zooming on right click.  I use IE and Chrome, depending on what machine I'm using and which one I choose at random.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 07 May, 2013, 07:53:48 am
I didn't realise that gpxeditor was your project, I quite like it

The only buggette I've noticed is when rerouting, in one place it doesn't correctly deal with dual carriageways.  I have a situation where attempting to reroute so that the end of the segment is on a dual carriage leads to "looping" up the dual carriage and back

If this sounds wildly interesting I can email you the file that does this

It'll be because I always have the "avoid highways" option set when asking google for the route.
Turning it off would have to be a user-specific option, along with miles vs km, etc. I haven't got round to doing user-specific options yet but it's on the to do list.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 07 May, 2013, 07:58:29 am
I've been using your site with my Macs various, and have a couple of comments.

Right click: always, always results in the map zooming out as well as the (required) menu coming up.

IPad use: doesn't work, cos you can't right click with an iPad.

The crow-flies thing is useful, because occasionally I've found that the routing logic won't let me cross an A-road where I want to and will re-route me several miles to cross where it wants to! That's using OSM - it seems less picky using Google maps.

I thought it might have an issue with macs because don't they only have one mouse button instead of two? Solution: don't use a mac - they're shite!  ;)
Does it do the same thing on google maps site?

It might not be that difficult to make a non-right click version, with just all the menus at the top - I'll look into it, because a lot of people do have these new fangled ipad things.

On OSM it doesn't use OSM's routing - it still uses google's. It doesn't matter what rendering you have, the routing provider is always the same.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Ningishzidda on 07 May, 2013, 08:21:19 am
Maps zooming in and out by unintentionally activating the Apple Magic Mouse scroll is a blinding nuisance on any mapping package.
It is a 'user problem' and not the mapping package software.

The scroll detection area on the Magic mouse, as I've discovered, does not extend to the very outer limit of the mouse top surface.
Handling the mouse by its very outer edges alieviates spurious zooming, ( most of the time ).

The other option is to drive from the keyboard.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: toontra on 07 May, 2013, 08:38:38 am
One suggestion Ben.  When in route mode and naming the waypoints, would it be possible to have the "OK" button highlighted by default, so after entering your text you can confirm and close the window by a return keystroke rather than having to navigate the cursor into the "OK" box and click.  May seem a small thing but if entering hundreds of waypoints (as I do) this would save a lot of time.

I'd have thought 99% of the time people will want to just confirm their entry.  The cancel option would obviously still be there by using the cursor.

BTW I'm really beginning to like GPX Editor - Marengo will soon be a distant memory ;)
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: TimC on 07 May, 2013, 08:52:03 am
Maps zooming in and out by unintentionally activating the Apple Magic Mouse scroll is a blinding nuisance on any mapping package.
It is a 'user problem' and not the mapping package software.

The scroll detection area on the Magic mouse, as I've discovered, does not extend to the very outer limit of the mouse top surface.
Handling the mouse by its very outer edges alieviates spurious zooming, ( most of the time ).

The other option is to drive from the keyboard.

Yes, i think you're right - I'll try these solutions!
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 07 May, 2013, 09:10:44 am
OK. You can reroute a segment of a track now. Right click on the segment you want to reroute, choose 'Reroute segment' and then move the mouse around gently and it will reroute through the point where the mouse is.

Oh, by the way, segment re-routing:  It's grrrreat!

One thing I haven't figured out is how the editor splits the original track into segments.  When I want to do some re-routing I split the track before/after the bit I want to re-route, and then have to merge the segments between my two points if there are breaks in there  - which there normally are.  While I'm doing this I have time to ponder why the editor chose the initial segment breakdown.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 07 May, 2013, 09:31:48 am
One suggestion Ben.  When in route mode and naming the waypoints, would it be possible to have the "OK" button highlighted by default, so after entering your text you can confirm and close the window by a return keystroke rather than having to navigate the cursor into the "OK" box and click.  May seem a small thing but if entering hundreds of waypoints (as I do) this would save a lot of time.

I'd have thought 99% of the time people will want to just confirm their entry.  The cancel option would obviously still be there by using the cursor.

BTW I'm really beginning to like GPX Editor - Marengo will soon be a distant memory ;)

yep, probably.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 07 May, 2013, 09:42:50 am
OK. You can reroute a segment of a track now. Right click on the segment you want to reroute, choose 'Reroute segment' and then move the mouse around gently and it will reroute through the point where the mouse is.

Oh, by the way, segment re-routing:  It's grrrreat!

One thing I haven't figured out is how the editor splits the original track into segments.

It's where you clicked. When you left click to continue the route to a certain point, it just adds a new segment from where you last clicked, to where you've just clicked.

Quote
When I want to do some re-routing I split the track before/after the bit I want to re-route, and then have to merge the segments between my two points if there are breaks in there  - which there normally are. 

yes, that's exactly the way you should do it.

Quote
While I'm doing this I have time to ponder why the editor chose the initial segment breakdown.

You chose it, not it ;)

If I could think of an easy way of avoiding the extra step of joining segments, then I'd do it - but I haven't yet... if you think of a way, let me know...

I have thought of one way but it's a bit stateful and thus a bit messy to implement - I could have 'reroute between x and y', the only thing is it then has to be put into the mode of being ready to select x, then go into the mode of being ready to select y. Might be worth it however.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 07 May, 2013, 10:24:25 am
I have thought of one way but it's a bit stateful and thus a bit messy to implement - I could have 'reroute between x and y', the only thing is it then has to be put into the mode of being ready to select x, then go into the mode of being ready to select y. Might be worth it however.
OK Thanks for the explanation.  Makes perfect sense now (it was obvious really now I think).  I would put an alternate solution to this down the priority list because it works fine as is - I think the extra interface complexity may be a regression.  I've managed to do quite extensive re-jigging of routes using this method. 

Straightforward re routing, along with abliity to flip into OS mode to have a peek at "proper" (=familiar to me, lots of lovely contours) maps are the best points about this editor imo.

What did you think about my suggestion for a pure terrain view? 
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 07 May, 2013, 12:08:53 pm
It depends on whether it's accessible to a google map as an image provider. If it is, then yes. If there's no tile server already set up then it's probably out of the question. I'll have a look.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 27 May, 2013, 09:34:56 pm
have added two more options called 'define segment' and 'reroute between'.
'define segment' basically lets you choose two points on a track and then makes everything between those two points one segment.

'reroute between' basically just does 'define segment' and then reroutes the defined segment.

These features do seem a little bit temperamental but i'll be keeping my eye on it and using it quite a bit myself and if I can put my finger on exactly what it's doing wrong i'll correct it but thought it usable enough to put it out there for other people to try.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Russell on 04 June, 2013, 11:43:55 am
I have just found GPXeditor having been a confirmed BikeHike man for some years.  I was just playing with it trying to understand how it works.  Drawing a track from new I understand.  Drawing a route from new looked like 'as the crow flies' but I thought I saw a 'create route' command which converted the straight lines into a 'track' that followed the road.  I cannot see it now - did I imagine it????

R
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 05 June, 2013, 08:52:49 am
You can change between the "as crow flies" and "follow the road" mode using the icons along the bottom.

"Create route" takes a "track" that you've recorded, downloaded, or drawn on the map, and produces a set of "routepoints" more or less at the road junctions you go through (not 100% accurate but not half bad), with straight lines in between them.  If you load that "route" (or another straight line route you've drawn) into Mapsource or your GPS you have a choice between "as crow flies" and "follow road" navigation between those "routepoints". 

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 05 June, 2013, 10:50:11 am
I have just found GPXeditor having been a confirmed BikeHike man for some years.  I was just playing with it trying to understand how it works.  Drawing a track from new I understand.  Drawing a route from new looked like 'as the crow flies' but I thought I saw a 'create route' command which converted the straight lines into a 'track' that followed the road.  I cannot see it now - did I imagine it????

R

You have to right click ON the actual track to get the Create Route option.

Any examples of tracks that don't work with create route please let me know. I can't make it happen during a cursory play with it, but if you notice it producing wacky routes from a track, could you please right click on the track, 'save just this', and email me that gpx to admin@gpxeditor.co.uk.
Thanks.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: ran doner on 05 June, 2013, 02:15:23 pm
I'm also a confirmed BikeHike user who has looked at gpxeditor and liked what i saw  :thumbsup:

As i primarily use an Edge 500 with no routing i create tracks in BikeHike with added "coursepoints" to aid navigation prompts and save as a tcx track.

Will the addition of coursepoints be added ? Or are they already there and i've missed em ?



Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 05 June, 2013, 02:27:10 pm
I'm also a confirmed BikeHike user who has looked at gpxeditor and liked what i saw  :thumbsup:

As i primarily use an Edge 500 with no routing i create tracks in BikeHike with added "coursepoints" to aid navigation prompts and save as a tcx track.

Will the addition of coursepoints be added ? Or are they already there and i've missed em ?

I'm not sure I know exactly what 'coursepoints' are (I'm guessing they are tcx-equivalent of 'routepoints'), but if you send me an example gpx /tcx with them in to admin@gpxeditor.co.uk, then I'll put this on the to-do list, can't promise when it'll happen though.
You can create a route - with routepoints, which can have name and comment - but whether that's the same thing as what you're describing I don't know.

I am thinking of providing a separate page with a set of 'down 'n' dirty' utilities, just a set of buttons to do simple jobs, like convert from one format to another, reduce points to 500, etc etc. So that might cover it.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: ran doner on 05 June, 2013, 10:26:15 pm
I'll do a couple of short tracks tomorrow and email them in.

You basically create a track as per gpxeditor then there is an option to add a coursepoint(s) along the route. There is an option to do this automatically.

The coursepoint types are:

Left Turn
Bear Left
Right Turn
Bear Right
Straight
Generic
Danger

The coursepoint name will be the same as the type except for Generic and Danger which are input by the user each time you add one.

When you save the tcx track you have the option of offsetting the coursepoints by a user defined number of metres/feet earlier in the track.
So if you added a left turn on an actual left turn in a road when you save it with a 50m offset the coursepoint is shifted 50m before that in the downloaded track. If you reopen the track you can see the coursepoints in their "new" position. Generic and Danger coursepoints are static and don't move.

The beauty of all this is that in the Edge 500 (and I presume 510 and 200), when you "Do" a course the next of our coursepoints is shown with an icon based on the coursepoint type and the distance along the track to it. i.e. it is the next waypoint in routing speak. When you reach the coursepoint the Edge beeps and displays the coursepoint name. So you are warned that you need to turn or are at an info etc...


I did a quick google and there are links to the TCX schemas here (http://developer.garmin.com/schemas/). A quick search in there and I found a more extensive list of coursepoint types.

While we are on wishlists  ::-) there one was other thing I like in bikeike that I also think is in maymyride (or maybe ridewitgps) which is the ability to left-click and drag/select over a section of the elevation chart to zoom in to that section for a more detailed view of the profile. And also allow it to switch the display between elevation and gradient.

Hope all that makes sense.

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 06 June, 2013, 09:32:44 am

While we are on wishlists  ::-) there one was other thing I like in bikeike that I also think is in maymyride (or maybe ridewitgps) which is the ability to left-click and drag/select over a section of the elevation chart to zoom in to that section for a more detailed view of the profile. And also allow it to switch the display between elevation and gradient.

Hope all that makes sense.

Hmm, yes, interesting, you might be able to do that I think.
You could do it by defining a segment on the actual track on the map, rather than on the elevation chart, now:
- Right click on the track, choose 'Define segment'
- Choose the start and end points (of where you think a hill might be, for instance)
 (you've now defined a segment, it should flash as one contigious segment)
- Right click on that segment, and choose 'Show Elevation' -> 'for selected segment'

I know with long rides the elevation chart looks a bit like an ECG screen squashed up, so yes it would be nice to zoom into it on there.

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: ran doner on 06 June, 2013, 11:14:29 am
Ben

I've just emailed you 2 tcx tracks. 1 with coursepoints and 1 without.

The coursepoints are tagged on at the bottom of the xml file.


Code: [Select]
-<CoursePoint>
  <Name>Straight</Name>
  <Time>2013-06-06T11:00:49Z</Time>
  -<Position>
    <LatitudeDegrees>51.112150</LatitudeDegrees>
    <LongitudeDegrees>-1.577890</LongitudeDegrees>
  </Position>
  <AltitudeMeters>0</AltitudeMeters>
  <PointType>Straight</PointType>
  <Notes/>
</CoursePoint>


Cheers
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 06 June, 2013, 12:29:35 pm
I know with long rides the elevation chart looks a bit like an ECG screen squashed up, so yes it would be nice to zoom into it on there.
The comparison with an ECG isn't entirely inapt.  You will have heart failure just ... here.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: bikey-mikey on 20 June, 2013, 12:05:30 pm
Just found this Ben. Well done. I'll look later. :)
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Phil W on 07 October, 2013, 05:21:32 pm
If you want gpx to tcx you just need to do a xsl transformation. A sample xsl can be found at https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?13452-Data-Converter-Plugin-Development
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Phil W on 07 October, 2013, 05:25:38 pm
Used your editor today, overall looks good.

Be good if I could change the default sequence of waypoints if I introduce an extra waypoint when min distance not satisfied in original route / track.

If I generate a walking, biking, driving track then all three tracks are the same colour and not easy to see which is which. Colour coding tracks if more than one would be a great addition. Adding an icon to the track boxes top right so I know which routing algo was used would also be good.

Cheers

Phil
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 25 October, 2013, 07:49:20 pm
Problem with trying to associate an icon showing the algorithm is that you may use different algorithms for different segments in the same track, eg switching to crow flies and back again
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 29 October, 2013, 09:41:38 am
Problem with trying to associate an icon showing the algorithm is that you may use different algorithms for different segments in the same track, eg switching to crow flies and back again
not sure what you mean, can you describe the steps you're taking?
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 29 October, 2013, 10:23:41 am
Problem with trying to associate an icon showing the algorithm is that you may use different algorithms for different segments in the same track, eg switching to crow flies and back again
not sure what you mean, can you describe the steps you're taking?

I start a new track and click the bike icon to use the bike algorithm.  Make a few segments.  Get a nice route along some lanes.  Come to a river.  I actually propose to wade across this river holding my bike above my head (let's say ;) ).  Now, the nearest bridge is a mile away, so I can't use any of the routing options as these will force me to go via the bridge, and I want to try out my new rubber cycling waders from Wiggle, so I click on the crow flies algorithm and put my next route point on the other side of the river.  I get a straight line across the river.  Now I revert to bike algorithm and create some more segments and finish my track.

(More sensible scenarios may involve me sneaking down a ginnel that's not marked on the map)

Thus the track I have created contains a mix of algorithms:  bike for most of the way, and crow flies to cross the river.  Therefore it doesn't make sense in this instance to associate a single algorithm icon with the track, as suggested above.


I've just realised that I should have quoted "Adding an icon to the track boxes top right so I know which routing algo was used would also be good."  from Phil W's post, to give my post above a bit more context.  I was responding to that.

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Ningishzidda on 29 October, 2013, 12:00:57 pm
You finish one track on one side of the river and start the next track on the other side of the river.
It'll be up to you to get the riverbanks correct.

In the olde days, Garmin didn't have maps which featured a footbridge over the A452. From the final control back to HQ was split into two routes.
The same scenario is where the route takes a gap in the hedge.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 29 October, 2013, 12:33:04 pm
You finish one track on one side of the river and start the next track on the other side of the river.
It'll be up to you to get the riverbanks correct.

In the olde days, Garmin didn't have maps which featured a footbridge over the A452. From the final control back to HQ was split into two routes.
The same scenario is where the route takes a gap in the hedge.

I don't want to have two tracks, and I don't need two tracks.  I just temporarily switch to crow flies routing in gpxeditor for the river crossing (or sneaking through the hedge or down a ginnel) and it works fine and dandy.  (I'm using a track not a route btw).

The only point I'm making is that during the route I have utilised two different routing algorithms.  And therefore it is not possible to associate a single algorithm icon with a track  because a track may have utilised many algorithms.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 29 October, 2013, 01:45:28 pm
it is not possible to associate a single algorithm icon with a track  because a track may have utilised many algorithms

quite so.
however the ability to colour code tracks at will (as suggested by Phil W) could be rather useful.
In planning a DIY for example one might do a track in "walking" mode to check the distance, then have another version (which actually planning to ride) using car mode to ensure not routed down any muddy farm tracks.  Both might have some small portion of "direct routing" to deal with any special areas, but some means of distinguishing the two tracks might be a "nice to have" 
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 29 October, 2013, 01:59:37 pm
Oh, yes please to pretty coloured tracks, on the nice to have list!
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Oaky on 01 November, 2013, 04:01:41 pm
One thing I'd like is the option to strip elevation data from a track - I often want to do that with imported BRT tracks.

I can currently do this by doing a "null" re-route of a segment of the track, but it would be nice to have an explicit shortcut for that.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 01 November, 2013, 04:07:34 pm

I start a new track and click the bike icon to use the bike algorithm.  Make a few segments.  Get a nice route along some lanes.  Come to a river.  I actually propose to wade across this river holding my bike above my head (let's say ;) ).  Now, the nearest bridge is a mile away, so I can't use any of the routing options as these will force me to go via the bridge, and I want to try out my new rubber cycling waders from Wiggle, so I click on the crow flies algorithm and put my next route point on the other side of the river.  I get a straight line across the river.  Now I revert to bike algorithm and create some more segments and finish my track.

(More sensible scenarios may involve me sneaking down a ginnel that's not marked on the map)

Thus the track I have created contains a mix of algorithms:  bike for most of the way, and crow flies to cross the river.  Therefore it doesn't make sense in this instance to associate a single algorithm icon with the track, as suggested above.


I've just realised that I should have quoted "Adding an icon to the track boxes top right so I know which routing algo was used would also be good."  from Phil W's post, to give my post above a bit more context.  I was responding to that.

Right, i see what you mean.
For clarity, (and to Phil W as well), the routing algo icon in the bottom right is the routing algo that is currently being used, not that is associated with the current track.
It doesn't make sense to associate a routing algo with a track, partly because, obviously, like you say, it could have been multiple ones.
But you can't even associate a routing algo with just a single segment of a track as it might not have been created by any of them - it could have been imported. Or it could have been created with one but then rerouted with another. The only things to be stored against a track are (or should be) things that are part of the gpx specification.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 01 November, 2013, 04:16:18 pm
If you want gpx to tcx you just need to do a xsl transformation. A sample xsl can be found at https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?13452-Data-Converter-Plugin-Development

Brilliant, cheers that makes it easy then - will take a look at that.


Used your editor today, overall looks good.

Be good if I could change the default sequence of waypoints if I introduce an extra waypoint when min distance not satisfied in original route / track.

If I generate a walking, biking, driving track then all three tracks are the same colour and not easy to see which is which. Colour coding tracks if more than one would be a great addition. Adding an icon to the track boxes top right so I know which routing algo was used would also be good.

Cheers

Phil
sorry just seen this post, also see reply above as per reason why you can't associate.

But you could colour code tracks (you would have to change the colour of a track manually*).
I actually want to put something in for myself to set the color in the gpxx extension so it shows up that colour on my unit - otherwise I have to keep going into each and every track on the unit and changing it manually.


* although I might put in a 'set default track colour' option so if that's set, it always sets the gpxx colour. I always want mine black, for instance, so I want to set it so that it always downloads mine with 'black' in the gpxx colour extension.
Not personally bothered about colour on the screen myself - probably easier if the gpxx colour is in sync with the displayed colour - unless anyone has a burning desire to be able to set them separately?
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 01 November, 2013, 04:24:04 pm
You finish one track on one side of the river and start the next track on the other side of the river.
It'll be up to you to get the riverbanks correct.


that's fine but it doesn't give you an accurate total distance.

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Oaky on 02 November, 2013, 01:29:22 am
You finish one track on one side of the river and start the next track on the other side of the river.
It'll be up to you to get the riverbanks correct.


that's fine but it doesn't give you an accurate total distance.

I have no idea if it is true in this particular case or not, but it's my impression from readings of the forum that it is not unknown for Mr. Ningishzidda to engage in Phantastickal Experiments of the Mind, not actually meant as serious in their entirety.

A bit like our most Flatulent friend, in fact. (although, I've not known his thought experiments to veer so often into the realm of GPS, since he is, as far as i remember,  a 705 user with a well practiced and successful usage pattern thereof).
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 15 November, 2013, 09:42:09 pm
Ben I have a buglet for you.

Just did a trail that crossed the meridian, and then I couldn't load it into another program.  Turns out the teeny weeny longitude value had expressed itself in scientific notation.  (Middle row below)
Code: [Select]
    <trkpt lat="51.2779" lon="-0.0027" />
      <trkpt lat="51.27987" lon="2E-05" />
      <trkpt lat="51.28054" lon="0.00162" />
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 15 November, 2013, 10:06:35 pm
yebbut - it's only very small buglet  ;D
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 15 November, 2013, 11:13:13 pm
Ben I have a buglet for you.

Just did a trail that crossed the meridian, and then I couldn't load it into another program.  Turns out the teeny weeny longitude value had expressed itself in scientific notation.  (Middle row below)
Code: [Select]
    <trkpt lat="51.2779" lon="-0.0027" />
      <trkpt lat="51.27987" lon="2E-05" />
      <trkpt lat="51.28054" lon="0.00162" />
oh! Well done... both for managing to get it to happen and finding the cause.
Should be easy to fix.
In the meantime, simply cycle further west ;)
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: nikki on 16 November, 2013, 10:26:42 am
Hi Ben,

I've been using your site quite a bit over the last 6 months, so first off I'd like to say thanks for building something that's turned out to be really very useful and is now one of the main tools in my route-planning arsenal.

Adding my vote for being able to change the colour of different tracks on screen.

Quite often I'll pull in tracks from various sources to compare and use as a starting point for planning my own, so I end up with a mass of blue lines in roughly the same place. Colours would help untangle them!



Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Oaky on 16 November, 2013, 05:26:02 pm
One other suggestion... (and maybe it's there already, but I'm too thick to find it).

how about a "Clear all" option.  I often work on a track and some associated waypoints, save the lot off to a GPX file, then want to start again on a fresh track+waypoints.  Currently I reload the site form my bookmarks, but a menu item (probably with a confirmatio dialog!) to "Delete all" woudl be handy.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 16 November, 2013, 09:54:23 pm
One other suggestion... (and maybe it's there already, but I'm too thick to find it).

how about a "Clear all" option.  I often work on a track and some associated waypoints, save the lot off to a GPX file, then want to start again on a fresh track+waypoints.  Currently I reload the site form my bookmarks, but a menu item (probably with a confirmatio dialog!) to "Delete all" woudl be handy.
yep ok I can put that in... as a quick alternative in the mean time you can just put the cursor in the address bar and hit enter
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 17 November, 2013, 04:02:52 pm
Added the ability to set tracks to be different colours.
any problems let me know.

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 17 November, 2013, 08:13:10 pm
oh! Well done... both for managing to get it to happen and finding the cause.
Should be easy to fix.
In the meantime, simply cycle further west ;)
I spent several years as a software test manager.  :)

Edit.  By the way, to check out the world relief map I suggested, have a look at this link and then under "more maps" dropdown choose world relief map.  I find this useful when planning rides in terra incognita.  (as in this example in France) http://www.wikiloc.com/wikiloc/view.do?id=4995977
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 22 November, 2013, 09:29:03 pm
Here's another little funny for you. 

I downloaded this track: http://ridewithgps.com/routes/3677426 as a gpx file (Go to export, gpx track)

It contains a single track segment and starts like this

...
</name>
<trkseg>
<trkpt lat="51.379281" lon="0.01905399999998281">  <ele>67</ele> </trkpt>
<trkpt lat="51.37932" lon="0.01904000000001815"> <ele>67</ele></trkpt> 
<trkpt lat="51.37922" lon="0.01817000000005464"> <ele>68</ele> </trkpt>
...
   


Then I loaded it into gpx editor, and did a reduce to 500 points, then a save just this.  Now it has a little four point extra segment at the start with some bonkers co-ords, before it gets into the track proper

...
      </name>
      <extensions>
      <gpxx:TrackExtension>
        <gpxx:DisplayColor>#0000e0</gpxx:DisplayColor>
      </gpxx:TrackExtension>
    </extensions>
    <trkseg>
      <trkpt lat="-0.00001" lon="-0.00001" />
      <trkpt lat="-0.00014" lon="7619.59126" />
      <trkpt lat="-0.00004" lon="5048.04393" />
      <trkpt lat="0.0002" lon="5309.11929" />
    </trkseg>
    <trkseg>
      <trkpt lat="51.37928" lon="0.01905" />
      <trkpt lat="51.37932" lon="0.01904" />
      <trkpt lat="51.37922" lon="0.01817" />
...

Huh?  Where did the four odd points come from?

No problem, I just edited them out with notepad and all was well.

And a minor incompatibility ...

 Garmin Mapsource doesn't like the <extensions> element, it refuses to load gpx files with that in.  But that's not your problem, it's theirs.  Just thought I'd mention it.  I just edit it out with notepad.

Maybe I deserve it for using an obsolete thingy like Mapsource, when I should be using Basecamp (I think ... I haven't bothered investigating Basecamp because Mapsource works for me) 
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 22 November, 2013, 10:10:21 pm
Here's another little funny for you. 

I downloaded this track: http://ridewithgps.com/routes/3677426 as a gpx file (Go to export, gpx track)

It contains a single track segment and starts like this

...
</name>
<trkseg>
<trkpt lat="51.379281" lon="0.01905399999998281">  <ele>67</ele> </trkpt>
<trkpt lat="51.37932" lon="0.01904000000001815"> <ele>67</ele></trkpt> 
<trkpt lat="51.37922" lon="0.01817000000005464"> <ele>68</ele> </trkpt>
...
   


Then I loaded it into gpx editor, and did a reduce to 500 points, then a save just this.  Now it has a little four point extra segment at the start with some bonkers co-ords, before it gets into the track proper

...
      </name>
      <extensions>
      <gpxx:TrackExtension>
        <gpxx:DisplayColor>#0000e0</gpxx:DisplayColor>
      </gpxx:TrackExtension>
    </extensions>
    <trkseg>
      <trkpt lat="-0.00001" lon="-0.00001" />
      <trkpt lat="-0.00014" lon="7619.59126" />
      <trkpt lat="-0.00004" lon="5048.04393" />
      <trkpt lat="0.0002" lon="5309.11929" />
    </trkseg>
    <trkseg>
      <trkpt lat="51.37928" lon="0.01905" />
      <trkpt lat="51.37932" lon="0.01904" />
      <trkpt lat="51.37922" lon="0.01817" />
...

Huh?  Where did the four odd points come from?

No problem, I just edited them out with notepad and all was well.

And a minor incompatibility ...

 Garmin Mapsource doesn't like the <extensions> element, it refuses to load gpx files with that in.  But that's not your problem, it's theirs.  Just thought I'd mention it.  I just edit it out with notepad.

Maybe I deserve it for using an obsolete thingy like Mapsource, when I should be using Basecamp (I think ... I haven't bothered investigating Basecamp because Mapsource works for me)
Ok the four extra points but sure about that, looks like a bit of an anomaly... Probably something silly though.
The not loading in map source might be fixable, it could be that map source is parsing it lazily and as such being overly strict with how it expects the namespace to be laid out and it might be possible to pander to it without any loss of integrity.
I'll have a look tomorrow afternoon
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 23 November, 2013, 09:59:05 am

ok the four extra points (didn't it strike you as odd that it said the track was 30-odd thousand km when you first loaded it in gpxeditor ;) ) - a very numpty mistake on my part, and to do with the slightly proprietary data format i use to transfer between client andserver, I've fixed it in a way that is very slightly imperfect, but the imperfection should give no loss of usability at all and is probably not even noticeable by most people :)

sharing issue (that i found) also fixed.

mapsource will have a look this afternoon.

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 23 November, 2013, 02:46:37 pm
Thanks Ben.

I'm not so bothered by the Mapsource issue, as I have some history of messing around with XML files,so I can normally get it to load eventually, but if it helps you improve gpxeditor, I'll keep reporting ”funnies” if I find them.

Incidentally, I use gpxeditor for creating tracks (I don't use routes) and mapsource for downloading to my 60csx. If I'm using an externally supplied GPX, as is the case above,I use gpxeditor to reduce to 500 points (limit for saved tracks on the 60csx), then mapsource to download. There may be a better way, but this method works.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 23 November, 2013, 04:58:58 pm
Thanks Ben.

I'm not so bothered by the Mapsource issue, as I have some history of messing around with XML files,so I can normally get it to load eventually, but if it helps you improve gpxeditor, I'll keep reporting ”funnies” if I find them.

Incidentally, I use gpxeditor for creating tracks (I don't use routes) and mapsource for downloading to my 60csx. If I'm using an externally supplied GPX, as is the case above,I use gpxeditor to reduce to 500 points (limit for saved tracks on the 60csx), then mapsource to download. There may be a better way, but this method works.
I might be able to investigate the Garmin communicator plug in, but if it's too complex to do I might decide it's not worth it.
I do appreciate you reporting the funnies as obviously not everyone is as au fait with xml files!
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: bikey-mikey on 10 December, 2013, 10:00:17 pm
With the 'demise??' of BrT, for a while at least, I'm looking at this at last, Ben   :)

I haven't caught up with all the thread yet, but will find time.

Initial comments....

I'm not registered with Google or Microsoft or (please excuse profanity) twatter or arsebook, and not sure why they are mentioned?

I took the plunge and started doing a route and am impressed so far.  :thumbsup:

Especially like the way I can use the Bristol Bath cycle path without having to click it all in in straight line sections.  8) 8)

Not sure why I can't scroll in and out with my 'scroll in and out' wheel though, which works on other planners ??  It's a pain to have to go across to the + and - buttons.....    ???
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: frankly frankie on 11 December, 2013, 11:11:44 am
Garmin Mapsource doesn't like the <extensions> element, it refuses to load gpx files with that in.  But that's not your problem, it's theirs. 
The not loading in map source might be fixable, it could be that map source is parsing it lazily and as such being overly strict with how it expects the namespace to be laid out ...

... In other words, Mapsource expects well-formed GPX files - whereas most other programs and utilities aren't so picky.
You can't really criticise Mapsource for that.  ;)
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Ningishzidda on 11 December, 2013, 11:45:24 am
http://www.gpstraining.co.uk/Garmin_GPS_and_Garmin_Ordnance_Survey_mapping_training-days.html

Garmin, in their uncontrolled evolution of incompetence, have unintentionally created entrepreneurial openings.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 11 December, 2013, 01:18:07 pm
Garmin Mapsource doesn't like the <extensions> element, it refuses to load gpx files with that in.  But that's not your problem, it's theirs. 
The not loading in map source might be fixable, it could be that map source is parsing it lazily and as such being overly strict with how it expects the namespace to be laid out ...

... In other words, Mapsource expects well-formed GPX files - whereas most other programs and utilities aren't so picky.
You can't really criticise Mapsource for that.  ;)

It turned out not to be that eventually - it was actually that the colour has to be one of a list of named colours as per http://developer.garmin.com/schemas/gpxx/v3/oxygen/index.html#h421429051 , and I had set it to my default colour was something like #0000dc.  I previously (wrongly) assumed that mapsource was expecting the definition of what namespace the gpxx prefix is to be an attribute of the root, rather than an attribute of the gpxx element itself, whereas my understanding of xml is that it should be able to cope with either.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 11 December, 2013, 01:23:59 pm
With the 'demise??' of BrT, for a while at least, I'm looking at this at last, Ben   :)

I haven't caught up with all the thread yet, but will find time.

Initial comments....

I'm not registered with Google or Microsoft or (please excuse profanity) twatter or arsebook, and not sure why they are mentioned?

Just because they are the methods of logging in. You don't have to log in to use the site, but you do if you want to 'share' routes. You can then just copy and paste a URL somewhere and when people click on it, it should load up that route.

Quote
Not sure why I can't scroll in and out with my 'scroll in and out' wheel though, which works on other planners ??  It's a pain to have to go across to the + and - buttons.....    ???

Not sure about that - not seen that issue before...
WHat make of mouse is it?
Are you using a mac?
Does it work on maps.google.co.uk?
Does it work in a different browser?
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Toady on 13 December, 2013, 08:01:16 pm
What would be nice would be a total climb for route (estimation).  I know this would be fraught with difficulty, because the heights that you get aren't spot heights actually on the route, but you have some data there for the graph, so you could just sum up all of the height differences that are positive (and possibly all that are negative too.

 I've just planned two possible routes for tomorrow and it would be nice to give the rough (relative) total climb for each route as well as the distance when I email my cycling mate.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 13 December, 2013, 11:14:07 pm
What would be nice would be a total climb for route (estimation).  I know this would be fraught with difficulty, because the heights that you get aren't spot heights actually on the route, but you have some data there for the graph, so you could just sum up all of the height differences that are positive (and possibly all that are negative too.

 I've just planned two possible routes for tomorrow and it would be nice to give the rough (relative) total climb for each route as well as the distance when I email my cycling mate.

yes, I could do that. You could compare gpxeditors estimate of one route with gpxeditors estimate of another route, but what you couldn't do is compare it with something else's estimation of the same route and expect it to be the same.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 15 December, 2013, 07:07:16 pm
A useful feature of bikehike is that you can load GPX files directly from other webservers.

Or you can ... if you can remember the URL format!  :facepalm:

It's something like www.bikehike.co.uk/load?f=www.flatus.co.uk/mybestaudaxwin.gpx

Can anyone help? [And does Ben's do this? :) ]

it doesn't currently but I could fairly easily add it.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 15 December, 2013, 11:44:39 pm
What would be nice would be a total climb for route (estimation).  I know this would be fraught with difficulty, because the heights that you get aren't spot heights actually on the route, but you have some data there for the graph, so you could just sum up all of the height differences that are positive (and possibly all that are negative too.

 I've just planned two possible routes for tomorrow and it would be nice to give the rough (relative) total climb for each route as well as the distance when I email my cycling mate.

Done.
If you right click on a track, there is a new menu option 'Update total climbing'.
One thing I would say though, is it gets more inaccurate (tends to underestimate) the longer the route is.
I did it on yr elenydd and it came back with just under 4,000m, the AUK site lists ~4,900. However, doing it on each track, with one track per leg, and adding them together, probably gives you closer to 4,900 that the AUK site says.
So just don't go doing it on a 1,000, thinking it's quite flat, and then come crying to me when it's hillier than you thought ;)

I've also added some new routing methods today, they are based on the OSRM routing engine. http://project-osrm.org/
The winter one I don't think is particularly effective - I threw it together as an afterthought and haven't had much time to test it yet so there's a high chance I'll be rebuilding it after tweaking its profiles*.
The others produce some quite interesting routes! Try going from one side of a large city to the other, for instance.
Keen to hear any feedback on here or by email.


*In fact there's a chance I might tweak any of them, but the ones other than winter are quite good.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on 15 December, 2013, 11:54:30 pm
Nice! Is that five separate OSRM profiles?
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 15 December, 2013, 11:55:18 pm
Nice! Is that five separate OSRM profiles?
yep, five different ones.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 17 December, 2013, 04:07:19 pm
feedback:  the AUK is looking very disdainfully at the Google symbology  ;D

Seriously: I think the elevation thing is spot on. On the limited testing I've done so far, the numbers come out within a gnat's crochet (as the late lamented Humphrey Lyttleton used to say) of bikehike, which I've previously found to be close enough to contour counting as makes no difference.   So - a big  :thumbsup: from me.

Routing
I've only tried a couple of routes for comparison where I know on the ground what the alternatives are like.
The Winter one is definitely a bit odd, it seems to me to give too much preference to "B" roads (over "A" and lanes) and at the expense of more km.   Some interesting inspirations for future DIYs though.....

The Tourist ones are good, though I've not found significant differences between them (more playing neeeded)

The AUK one seems to pick some gravel surfaced paths which are signed as "no cycling" on the ground (and which are ignored by the Tourist options) - but that may well be the fault of the way they are tagged on OSM rather than anything to do with the routing algorithm.


 
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Bianchi Boy on 17 December, 2013, 08:40:19 pm
I have just been trying the route options and I really like the routes it is giving me.

This is the best routing tool I have used.

BB
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 17 December, 2013, 09:05:35 pm
Thanks, you're right I have noticed they are fairly similar to each other.
What's now the super tourist will probably be renamed tourist, and what's now tourist will be changed to a different one that is a bit like the auk but a little bit more sensible with town centres. Double st will stay as it is.
Winter, I'll have a look at debugging it.

Would be interested to know where it went down a track?! The profiles are all based on the car profile with different speeds so I'd be curious to know where they go on non roads.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: ran doner on 19 December, 2013, 03:40:56 pm
Hi Ben,

Have you got a problem with the AUK routing at the moment. If i try and create any new tracks with AUK routing it crashes when selecting the 2nd (in fact any after the 1st) point with an error "Error occurred when routing. Please report to admin@gpxeditor.co.uk" and the "Calculating Route, please wait" routing box hanging. I tried the same thing with Google Walking and it was OK. Problem happens in both Chrome 31.0.1650.63m and IE 11.0.9.600.16476

Actually i get the error with AUK, Tourist or Double-Super Tourist. The others create the track.

Cheers
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 19 December, 2013, 03:46:13 pm
will have a look into it.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 19 December, 2013, 04:07:41 pm
should be ok now. have just been faffing about with them....

I have also rationalsed the tourist ones into just two - three was too many.
There is now just 'tourist' and 'super tourist'.
Super tourist has the profile of what was originally called 'double super tourist' (so no net decrease in maximum laney-ness :) ), and what's now called 'tourist' has a new profile which makes it slightly more noticeably different to super tourist, in practice however it is not that much different. I might flatten its profile off a bit as it is a little bit more resistant to enter urbanity than I'd like but it won't change much if I do.

Winter is now slightly better, the thing with it is - remember it still doesn't go on 70mph dual carriageways. So if you choose a route that is only really possible with lanes or 70mph dual carriageways, then it will still go on lanes, if the detour is multiple times longer. If it's only, say, twice as long then it should go on the secondary and primary roads.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 19 December, 2013, 07:46:57 pm
Testing an automated update script on winter so if it stops working it'll have at least partially worked ;) shouldn't affect the others.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: mattc on 23 December, 2013, 02:43:16 pm
A useful feature of bikehike is that you can load GPX files directly from other webservers.

Or you can ... if you can remember the URL format!  :facepalm:

It's something like www.bikehike.co.uk/load?f=www.flatus.co.uk/mybestaudaxwin.gpx

Can anyone help? [And does Ben's do this? :) ]
Found it:
http://www.bikehike.co.uk/mapview.php?lnk=http://www.flatus.co.uk/mybestaudaxwin.gpx

[with apologies for the thread hijack]
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 23 December, 2013, 06:37:56 pm
A useful feature of bikehike is that you can load GPX files directly from other webservers.

Or you can ... if you can remember the URL format!  :facepalm:

It's something like www.bikehike.co.uk/load?f=www.flatus.co.uk/mybestaudaxwin.gpx

Can anyone help? [And does Ben's do this? :) ]
Found it:
http://www.bikehike.co.uk/mapview.php?lnk=http://www.flatus.co.uk/mybestaudaxwin.gpx

[with apologies for the thread hijack]

Done
e.g.
http://www.gpxeditor.co.uk?lnk=https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55634526/pbp.gpx (http://www.gpxeditor.co.uk?lnk=https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55634526/pbp.gpx)


Also rationalised the routers to just two, hopefully no one minds. The winter one wasn't really that effective I didn't think, and the tourists were virtually the same pretty much, so I just decided which one was better and got rid of the other one (the laney one won out unsurprisingly). Hopefully it will probably be more feasible to update them slightly more regularly now.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 29 December, 2013, 10:21:38 pm
Ok I've programmed the routers to go across the bridges correctly. (Old severn, humber, tay, kessock and forth) .

i have just discovered that 'cycleways' are on. I'm not sure whether they're best left on, turned off, or just certain ones, e.g. 'asphalt'.
I could turn them all off or just turn non-asphalt ones off whilst still keeping the 'whitelisted' ones for the bridges turned on.
Would appreciate opinions.
I can't find any that I know of that I wouldn't use or that are too muddy.

I did google "muddy cycle path" to try to catch it out and there was one between Axminster and Kilmington that did indeed look a bit cruddy on streetview but it is marked as asphalt on OSM. It's not really a great example 'cos if it was in the news it may have been improved.

So would appreciate examples of others anyone knows of that you would want it to route down or would want it to avoid.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 29 December, 2013, 11:19:37 pm
I think "turn non-asphalt ones off whilst still keeping the 'whitelisted' ones for the bridges turned on" is probably the best option.
Between folks correcting the tagging on OSM** and running a whitelist it should deal with most things.

** it's a lot easier now with Potlatch 2
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 29 December, 2013, 11:21:07 pm
I think "turn non-asphalt ones off whilst still keeping the 'whitelisted' ones for the bridges turned on" is probably the best option.
Between folks correcting the tagging on OSM** and running a whitelist it should deal with most things.

** it's a lot easier now with Potlatch 2

I think you're probably right actually.

*edit, I've just realised AUK actually has NOT got cycleways turned on, only tourist has.


Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 29 December, 2013, 11:25:49 pm

** it's a lot easier now with Potlatch 2
it is yes, it's great... I used it to add the gap in the hedge (http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/27199864#map=19/51.62550/-2.67684)  ;)
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Somnolent on 29 December, 2013, 11:43:22 pm
*edit, I've just realised AUK actually has NOT got cycleways turned on, only tourist has.

One with, one without, seems appropriate - just have to remember which is which.

Tried to think of a suitable mnemonic but for some reason my brain kept returning to a line in the refrain of the .... er... ballad sometimes known as the Mayor of Bayswater's daughter.   Google it if you must (NSFW)


 
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Greenbank on 08 January, 2014, 06:42:41 pm
(Back from self imposed YACF hibernation)

Used this for the first time today to modify some GPX tracks I'd been creating for Audax organisers that don't know how to do it.

Excellent work Ben T.

By far the most useful feature I've found so far is the ability to reroute segments, it makes it so much easier to fix bits where I've gone wrong on one little stretch 60km into a 600km GPX file when the organiser reviews it.

I'm working on a good ride elevation plotter at the moment (as a separate project) that allows easy annotation (controls/towns, major summits, etc) so I may be able to make some suggestions on calculating climb and plotting things nicely once I've got my hands dirty.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Euan Uzami on 12 January, 2014, 03:14:22 pm
Nice one thanks.


I've put gpxeditor on github!
https://github.com/bjtaylor1/GPXEditor

I would like to use this from now on please for any discussion about it rather than using yacf if that is ok.
https://github.com/bjtaylor1/GPXEditor/issues

It's called 'issues' but it doesn't have to be just issues - suggestions, questions, discussion points all very much appreciated.

I should get emailed when anybody posts a thread/reply on there, and you get subscribed to threads you create by default.


Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: vorsprung on 14 June, 2015, 09:44:15 pm
This link is dead, can't see the project on github
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Ben T on 15 June, 2015, 12:24:12 am
Hi Jamie, no sorry I've made it private now I'm afraid. Partly laziness - it's easier to just have everything in the one repository rather than split out sensitive info like connection strings, and since I'm the only real contributor it doesn't particularly make sense for it to be open source. However as regards the project's openness if you wanted to know how any of it works I'm happy to discuss it , of course a lot of the code is JavaScript so you can browse that anyway at will, albeit bundled.
The best algorithms it's got that other route planners haven't - tourist router, contour counter, and junctions counter (create route from track), are running on linux servers in the cloud and the source for those isn't in the main project.
As regards the bug log, it's not really big enough to warrant a whole site for issues. I did try a couple - bugzilla, github, but they didn't really get used enough and often people just emailed me anyway. So I think if there's any issues our feature suggestions best just to drop me an email.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Oaky on 16 June, 2015, 09:25:31 am
Did the re-route segment functionality go away (or become premium only)?

When I right click on a track and select Edit, I no longer see the re-route options in the menu.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Jack on 16 June, 2015, 09:51:01 am
I think the new 'drag the route by the dots' functionality automatically re-routes by segment. If you want to re-route between points on the track that aren't already the endpoints of a segment, I think you have to create a new segment.

That's my take, anyway (I'm Not Ben T). HTH
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Ben T on 16 June, 2015, 10:33:09 am
Did the re-route segment functionality go away (or become premium only)?

When I right click on a track and select Edit, I no longer see the re-route options in the menu.

You just drag it now. Either just drag the line or drag an existing white dot.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Oaky on 16 June, 2015, 08:44:59 pm
Thanks Ben!
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: vorsprung on 05 July, 2015, 03:37:41 pm
Did the re-route segment functionality go away (or become premium only)?

When I right click on a track and select Edit, I no longer see the re-route options in the menu.

You just drag it now. Either just drag the line or drag an existing white dot.

I will have a try at this for 10 minutes or so and see if I can get it to do what I want.  It used to let me reroute fairly easily and undo if I didn't want it.  First impressions are
that the new system is really faffy with the mouse like google maps is, and the undo doesn't work at all


Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Ben T on 05 July, 2015, 03:57:33 pm
few tips Jamie:
when dragging the line, wait a few seconds  for the broad purple translucent line to match the route you want to achieve, before letting go of the mouse. You have to be slightly patient with this while holding the left button down, especially if you have a slow network connection and/or are using the optimum/shortest routing methods.
'Undo' is now at the bottom of the 'edit menu'. It restores the track to how it was before you did the last operation. There is no 'Undo Last' as that was confusing people as it wasn't a proper undo, it merely removed the last segment of the track.
If you're still struggling try and isolate a specific workflow, a few steps of operation illustrating why you can't get it to do what you want and I'll see if anything can be improved.

Also , what system are you using?
- mac? If so remember gpxeditor relies on there being a difference between left and right mouse click so it could be that that's spannering you.
- mobile? I've removed reroute from the mobile functionality as it was too difficult to determine a swipe between reroute and pan, and most attempted pan operations were resulting in (unintended) reroutes. It may be incorrectly determining that you are on a mobile device if you have a touch screen monitor and drag-to-reroute doesn't work at all - if this is the case let me know and I should be able to come up with a workaround.

Would be interested to know if anybody who has a touch screen monitor is able to reroute using the mouse.

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: vorsprung on 05 July, 2015, 04:41:00 pm
ok I have tried it and now I've got used to it, it works fine

- I was having a problem with a particular reroute but this was due to an almost invisible section of footpath in the middle of the reroute.  Impressively, when I used walking mode this route was found.  It took me one more "go" after this to reroute the entire segment

- I have found the "undo" but I haven't tried it yet

- On a different section of map a less taxing reroute worked straight away

So it's changed but it still works as well as before.  Thank goodness.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: nikki on 15 October, 2016, 11:08:12 pm
Hi Ben,

Just reporting back that the side menu started appearing for me on mac today. Thanks!



Does anyone else have problems with the elevation plot crashing? Quite often I get the white box and a "Generating elevation, please wait..." message that never goes away. There's no 'x' so I can't close the box and instead have to save my tracks, reload the page and then reload my tracks. Seems to happen most if I've had to use as the crow flies routing for off-road sections.

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Bunker22 on 16 October, 2016, 01:54:57 pm
How do you edit a part of a track. I have a number of segments and want to modify the routing in one of them. When I hold the cursor over that segment it highlights, but when I right click it de-highlights and in the 'This track: Edit: Reroute all..., is the only option i get.

Is it possible to cut out a segment and stitch in a new one, if so how?

TIA
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: nikki on 16 October, 2016, 04:20:30 pm
I find the easiest way to edit part of a track is to drag the part you want to edit; it'll re-route according to the method you've got selected (cycling/driving/crow/etc).
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: ChillyPanda on 26 October, 2016, 07:42:24 pm
Couple of questions.

If planning a loop, is there a shortcut to quickly join the last segment back to the start point?

Where can I find the 'Reduce' option? The help page suggests that it's under the Track->Edit menu but I can't see it. This feature would be very useful as my old eTrex has the 500-point limit.

Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Oaky on 07 November, 2016, 10:20:27 am
Would be interested to know if anybody who has a touch screen monitor is able to reroute using the mouse.

I am unable to reroute using my mouse on my touchscreen laptop - trying to do so just pans the map around.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: SoreTween on 07 November, 2016, 07:42:56 pm
Did I read or imagine that one of the premium route options uses OpenStreetMap data?
If so, does it use live osm data or cached?
Reason for asking is much as I love cycle.travel the update frequency is unworkable. 4 months for my last osm additions to be available on c.t, 4 minutes for me to find the next osm additions I'd like to make.
If live then my wish list has one item on it, .tcx.
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Feanor on 04 July, 2017, 10:08:17 pm
I uploaded a zipped tracklog of a 600k ride to GPXeditor today, to inspect where it went on nice OS maps.

This worked fine.
The uploaded tracklog takes on a 'glow' effect on mouse-over.

However, after a bunch of zooming with the mouse-wheel and panning, the 'glow' effect became disconnected from the tracklog, and appears offset from it.
This happened on both my home win 10 machine on Edge browser and Chrome, and on my work PC under Win7 and Chrome.
It might take a good 5 minutes of zooming and panning to break it.

The glow only appears when you mouse-over the offset place, not over the proper tracklog.
See example image...

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4206/35591210881_261812681e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/We5g1V)
GPXeditor (https://flic.kr/p/We5g1V) by Ron Lowe (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62966413@N04/), on Flickr
Title: Re: GPX editor / route planner wish lists?
Post by: Ben T on 05 July, 2017, 12:45:36 pm
If you manage to do it again, on chrome, can you press f12 and if there are any errors in the console email me them. Cheers

If there aren't any, or I don't manage to fix them, then F5ing it should fix it but keep the track.