Author Topic: Tour de France 2012  (Read 143062 times)

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #275 on: 09 July, 2012, 09:13:42 pm »
I think Wiggins would have been on to a loser either way. He has a pop at the keyboard warriors who take advantage of the moral hazard of the internet to post stuff that would get their faces filled in if said face-to-face, and people are getting all po-faced. If he had given a non-committal answer, or had avoided/polite dismissed the questions, he'd be accused of not tackling the issue, or be called characterless and corporate.

There's a third thing he could have said, you know...

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #276 on: 09 July, 2012, 09:26:23 pm »
Never mind the bollocks.... that was amazeballs!
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Rig of Jarkness

  • An Englishman abroad
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #277 on: 09 July, 2012, 09:45:33 pm »
I think Wiggins would have been on to a loser either way. He has a pop at the keyboard warriors who take advantage of the moral hazard of the internet to post stuff that would get their faces filled in if said face-to-face, and people are getting all po-faced. If he had given a non-committal answer, or had avoided/polite dismissed the questions, he'd be accused of not tackling the issue, or be called characterless and corporate.

There's a third thing he could have said, you know...

The question has been asked loads of times before and if he'd just given the same answer that he'd given before everyone would have shrugged their shoulders and left it at that.  But instead, his ill disciplined outburst has made headline news of it.  Completely counter productive.
Aero but not dynamic

Rig of Jarkness

  • An Englishman abroad
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #278 on: 09 July, 2012, 09:49:05 pm »
I love the specialised advert. Living the dreams..

Me too  :thumbsup:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/1BwnuBVUBsQ&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/1BwnuBVUBsQ&rel=1</a>
Aero but not dynamic

David Martin

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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #279 on: 09 July, 2012, 09:53:16 pm »
Has anyone actually heard the question? It was asked what he thought about those anonymous twitterers who were accusing him and Sky of doping. His answer was honest and to the point.  And only to be expected after 6 hours riding on the limit, the joys of podium ceremonies and so on.

He answered the question that was asked, not the question many people seem to think may have been asked.
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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #280 on: 09 July, 2012, 10:02:16 pm »
The question was
Quote
"There was some chatter in the Twitter-sphere about the comparison between Sky and US Postal," said the AP journalist. "I'm wondering your reaction. And, what do you say to the cynics who say you have to be doped up to win the Tour de France?"

Seems like a reasonable answer to the question to me.

(I started looking for the quote before David's post arrived, thought I'd post anyway.)

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #281 on: 09 July, 2012, 10:17:18 pm »
It was asked what he thought about those anonymous twitterers who were accusing him and Sky of doping. His answer was honest and to the point.

It's not to the point at all. The concerns of the twitterers are entirely reasonable, even if their accusations are false in this case. He could have said something like, "It's only natural, after the many disappointments of the last twenty years, that people should be suspicious that riders have to be doping to win."

Karla

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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #282 on: 09 July, 2012, 10:29:32 pm »
Imagine coming out of your final exams (I'm guessing that you've never won a pro bike race, but have taken some fairly important exams at some point.)

You've spent hours revising for these, and have just sat in an exam hall doing hard maths / essays for the past three hours.  You rose to the challenge and are rightly proud of your answers.

Someone sticks a mic in your face.  "There are some people [who know nothing - Ed.] who say that exams are worthlessly easy these days, and that all students cheat anyway.  What do you say?" 

I'm guessing your answer wouldn't be very polite!  Look around the internet and you'll see some keyboard warriors who are anything but reasonable: they're talking out of ignorance and have no idea which cyclists may be doping or even what Wiggins has achieved in his career.  Their belief that 'cyclists dope innit' isn't based on evidence, it's based on lazy thinking.  I don't like people insulting me based on lazy thinking, neither it seems does Wiggins.

Wowbagger

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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #283 on: 09 July, 2012, 10:30:52 pm »
It seems to me that the question was couched in a particular way to elicit a specific reaction. The objective is to sell papers and I'd suggest that the journalist, having achieved that reaction, has been successful in that objective. It would be entirely predictable if the anonymous twitters were journalists themselves, creating their own story.

Whatever reply he gave he was onto a loser. I thought he pitched his response about right.
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Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #284 on: 09 July, 2012, 10:38:36 pm »
I'm not at all sure that his response getting into the press is a bad thing, as almost everyone seems to be assuming. It gets him and Sky more coverage, it brings him to the attention of people who might not be interested in cycle racing, it shows character of whatever sort and it has absolutely no effect on the result of the race.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #285 on: 09 July, 2012, 10:40:53 pm »
Imagine coming out of your final exams (I'm guessing that you've never won a pro bike race, but have taken some fairly important exams at some point.)

Someone sticks a mic in your face.  "There are some people [who know nothing - Ed.] who say that exams are worthlessly easy these days, and that all students cheat anyway.  What do you say?" 

I'm guessing your answer wouldn't be very polite!

If in fact cheating were rife, and if the majority of the people who got the top mark in the last twenty years had been revealed to have cheated at some point, then this would be a fair question, wouldn't it? In such a circumstance, an honest exam taker ought to be angry at the cheaters, and at the people running the corrupt exam system which allows the cheaters to profit from their cheating, not at the people who are legitimately asking questions about it.

onb

  • Between jobs at present
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #286 on: 09 July, 2012, 11:10:06 pm »
Great quote from david millar on twitter

Wiggo's now better at me in everything to do with cycling, profanity-filled interviews were all I had left. Now he's taken that crown. Darn
.

Wowbagger

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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #287 on: 09 July, 2012, 11:13:25 pm »
Great quote from david millar on twitter

Wiggo's now better at me in everything to do with cycling, profanity-filled interviews were all I had left. Now he's taken that crown. Darn

It's not surprising if "Darn!" is the best he can do.
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citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #288 on: 09 July, 2012, 11:14:01 pm »
or they only interview riders from"English speaking" countries, why do they assume viewers are automatically more interested in a domestique who happens to be Austrialian than the stage winner who might be be from say Belgium.

You're obviously not watching Eurosport. They had a cracking interview with Nibali yesterday.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #289 on: 09 July, 2012, 11:19:30 pm »
Wiggins/Froome

What interests me [as somebody who doesn't follow profesional cycling from one TDF to the next] is the mutual support and strength that's being generated between these two. You only had to see how they embraced each other after Froome won that summit finish to see it so.

It might appear that it's all about Wiggins. In a sense it is, but it's also equally about Froome. Where Wiggins is, so there is Froome close by. Very powerful feeling when you can plug into that kind of team spirit.

Fascinating stuff.
Garry Broad

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #290 on: 09 July, 2012, 11:26:55 pm »
Bike Snob NYC's take on C***gate.

Quote
And should he actually win this thing, you can be sure Wiggins will leverage his "c" word the same way Armstrong did, after which it's only a matter of time before the wrists of Fred-dom* are bejewled with C***Strong bracelets.

* "Fred" being an American term for a newbie cyclist, particularly one with all the gear and no idea.
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

LEE

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #291 on: 09 July, 2012, 11:33:10 pm »
Can we order some "YACF C***strong" bracelets?

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #292 on: 09 July, 2012, 11:36:19 pm »
If in fact cheating were rife, and if the majority of the people who got the top mark in the last twenty years had been revealed to have cheated at some point, then this would be a fair question, wouldn't it? In such a circumstance, an honest exam taker ought to be angry at the cheaters, and at the people running the corrupt exam system which allows the cheaters to profit from their cheating, not at the people who are legitimately asking questions about it.

I'm bored of hearing this "surely you can understand why we're suspicious?" line. It's disingenuous bullshit.

First off, Brad has stated his position on doping many times in the past. Does he really need to repeat it?

Second, a deliberately needling, provocative question in a press conference with the sole purpose of generating headlines is not hard-hitting investigative journalism, it's lazy hackery.

Third, if you look beyond the superficial resemblances between Sky and USPS/Discovery and study the facts and figures, you will see that their performances don't really bear comparison.

Here are a couple of interesting tweets from Jani Brajkovic to consider:
Quote
@janibrajkovic: Couple of years ago every1 was laughing at @TeamSky for doing million things trying to improve performance, now when they're flying...

Quote
@janibrajkovic: ....it's very easy to say they must be doing something... Yes, they r, training, nutrition, dedication, etc. well deserved

I'm not saying this is proof that Sky are clean, but knee-jerk cynicism is not the only valid response to an impressive performance.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

LEE

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #293 on: 09 July, 2012, 11:48:36 pm »
It sounds typical of Dave Brailsford's attention to detail.  It worked in the Velodrome and it seems to be working on the road.  He doesn't leave any stone unturned when it comes to preparation and he is a master at getting a team to peak at the right time, even sacrificing races along the way in the name of it.

I hope that Wiggins wins it and SKY show the World that British can be best when we put our minds to it (I remember the Australian Track Cycling coach saying they needed to learn from and copy Team GB's coaching methods, after a recent drubbing at Manchester.  That says something when Australians are envious of British sport coaching).

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #294 on: 10 July, 2012, 12:01:37 am »
It sounds typical of Dave Brailsford's attention to detail.  It worked in the Velodrome and it seems to be working on the road.  He doesn't leave any stone unturned when it comes to preparation and he is a master at getting a team to peak at the right time, even sacrificing races along the way in the name of it.

Precisely. The whole Sky team trained on today's TT route months in advance AND WERE THE ONLY TEAM TO DO SO. Astonishing, really.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #295 on: 10 July, 2012, 12:20:04 am »
I am loving Bradley more and more having listened to his recent comments to camera and interview :D
He seems to have upset some of the stuffiest up-themselves holier-than-thou kinds in the process ... epic  :thumbsup:
Personally I would have called the twattering idiots twats not cunts, but hey that's just me. Go Bradley  ;D

Karla

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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #296 on: 10 July, 2012, 12:29:21 am »
 :thumbsup:

Team Sky also have shedloads (or c***loads?) of money.  It's noticeable this year how most of the riders contesting sprints (with the honourable exception of Peter Sagan) cut their teeth in the High Road team.  What High Road did for sprint trains, Sky are now doing for GC teams: there are several riders in Sky who could all lead teams in their own right.  Wiggo (obviously), Cav (has done), Rogers (has done), Froome (probably will at the Vuelta, and I doubt that will be the last time), EBH, Thomas (who is possibly kicking himself for steering away from road this year), anyone else anybody would like to name? 

LEE

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #297 on: 10 July, 2012, 07:53:15 am »
If SKY have all the money then I'd be tempted to offer Sagan a deal next year.

I don't know how long Wiggins has got left at this top level but between him, Cav, Froome and Sagan, they'd have someone who could win any type of stage. Realistically, they could be domestiques for Froome.

Jaded

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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #298 on: 10 July, 2012, 08:04:12 am »
It was asked what he thought about those anonymous twitterers who were accusing him and Sky of doping. His answer was honest and to the point.

It's not to the point at all. The concerns of the twitterers are entirely reasonable, even if their accusations are false in this case. He could have said something like, "It's only natural, after the many disappointments of the last twenty years, that people should be suspicious that riders have to be doping to win."

Well, they may be, but taking the words of a few odd individuals and propelling them to the world stage in this way is Daily Mailesque, in the worst possible way.  It's like taking a conversation from some of the thickest, racist, ignorant pub bores and presenting it as the lead item on the Ten o'clock news.
It is simpler than it looks.

mattc

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Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #299 on: 10 July, 2012, 08:09:01 am »
I didn't see the interview but I suspect his tirade was against anonymous twitterers rather than against the journalist who asked the question; a case of "kick the cat".  If he really thinks that no-one else does a job in the world other than someone who starts off supremely gifted anyway, then he's just wrong. 

What an astonishing conclusion to draw from so little basis.

Quote
Has he always had a short fuse?
Well have you watched any of his other dozens of interviews? Or even listened to the rest of the press conference leading up to the twitter/drugs question?
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