Author Topic: Tour de France 2012  (Read 143886 times)

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #650 on: 17 July, 2012, 06:56:33 pm »
I might take a mosey up around tomorrow lunchtime. Hope it won't be too rammed.
'Something....something.... Something about racing bicycles, but really a profound metaphor about life itself.'  Tim KrabbĂ©. Possibly

Dibdib

  • Fat'n'slow
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #651 on: 17 July, 2012, 07:56:53 pm »
Apologies if it's been posted elsewhere already, but it doesn't look good for Schleck...

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12427/Frank-Schleck-tests-positive-for-banned-diuretic-UCI-wants-him-to-leave-Tour-de-France.aspx

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #652 on: 17 July, 2012, 08:20:53 pm »
Chapeau to ITV4's TdF coverage vision engineer, apparently he rode up the Col du Tourmalet on a Brommie - 'kin' hardcore!  :o :thumbsup:

http://twitter.com/nedboulting/status/225294117788332032/photo/1
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Rig of Jarkness

  • An Englishman abroad
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #653 on: 17 July, 2012, 09:08:46 pm »
Aero but not dynamic

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #654 on: 17 July, 2012, 09:47:19 pm »
Well, 2 cases so far. Any bets on the final total?
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #655 on: 17 July, 2012, 10:17:01 pm »
The recent days riding haven't been the most exciting of this tour, but to be fair, the first couple of weeks were exceptional.  We've got to the point now, that Sagan is pretty solidly in Green, and Wiggins in Yellow, so it's unlikely that many of the teams are going to push things that hard, because they've got little chance of getting anywhere, unless something like an accident takes out one of the leaders.  Even then, for teams who don't have a second or third placed contender, they've got little incentive.  Of course, some teams will still try and get a stage win, especially if they've lost their team leader anyway, since it'll get them coverage which they're not going to get from winning an overall jersey.

The King of the Mountains seems less certainly decided, and the last couple of days haven't had a vast number of points for that.  Wednesday and Thursday are going to be somewhat killers of stages in the Mountains, so the polka dot jersey could still be won and lost.  For the same reason, many of the teams were also clearly taking it easier, leading up to the rest day, because they knew after that, there would be some very hard days, before the last few flatish stages, and the time trial.

I think there's still going to be some interesting riding in the mountains, it always splits the ride up more than the mass of the peloton storming along on the flat stages.  It's easier for someone who is a good enough climber to jump away from the group he's in, and try and get to the front, or just gain some time or points on a rival.  It also shows up anyone who has any issues with fitness, injures, or illness, since they can just drop off of the back of the race, and at this point in the tour, they'll have so much less effort available, that it can amplify the differences.

There's definitely some good days coming up. :thumbsup:
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #656 on: 17 July, 2012, 10:28:19 pm »
Apologies if it's been posted elsewhere already, but it doesn't look good for Schleck...

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12427/Frank-Schleck-tests-positive-for-banned-diuretic-UCI-wants-him-to-leave-Tour-de-France.aspx

My thoughts (which you are welcome to ignore):

1. His performance has been relatively poor. If he has been doping (speaking as one who takes diuretics daily to keep blood pressure down) it wasn't much use.
2. He was called in at the last minute to replace his injured brother and may have been unable to get drugs out of his system which may have been "legal" to use out of competition. The inverted commas are there because the anti-drugs regime in sport is not exactly justice (and especially not British justice), more a case of judgment by a committee of bounding marsupials.
3. I really feel for Jens Voigt, the nicest man in the peloton, who has just said there is less in the way of drugs this year (an opinion with which I concur, bearing in mind the closeness of the competition and the explanability of Sky's dominance).
The journey is always more important than the destination

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #657 on: 17 July, 2012, 10:28:48 pm »
Well, 2 cases so far. Any bets on the final total?

Two.
The journey is always more important than the destination

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #658 on: 17 July, 2012, 10:31:54 pm »
We'll have to wait 8 years to get the correct total.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #659 on: 17 July, 2012, 10:37:16 pm »
We'll have to wait 8 years to get the correct total.

That'll be after the rules have been changed by the committee of marsupials several times.

Eight years as in athletics (or physical jerks, as I call it)? When do we find out about the dopers in association football and tennis (although in association football, the dope is likely to be far from performance-enhancing)?
The journey is always more important than the destination

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #660 on: 17 July, 2012, 10:42:46 pm »
Nobody in tennis and soccer wants to actually catch dopers, so never, I guess.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #661 on: 17 July, 2012, 10:48:37 pm »
Nobody in tennis and soccer wants to actually catch dopers, so never, I guess.

That's one reason I follow pro cycling whenever I can steal live footage, only watch football if it's free to air and Arsenal or England are involved (and then only if Mrs Honest hasn't offered to take me out to eat Expensive Food) and regard tennis as one of the minor works of the Evil One on one of his off-days when he let his 11-year-old daughter take over.
The journey is always more important than the destination

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #662 on: 18 July, 2012, 01:03:50 am »
No one has tested positive for a banned substance on this Tour yet. Di Gregorio was caught in possession of illegal equipment and Schleck has tested positive for a "specified" substance, not a prohibited one - he wasn't even thrown off the Tour by the organisers, his team withdrew him.

I'm kind of pleased that the sport is punishing such suspicious behaviour based on the probably very fair assumption that there's no smoke without fire, but also kind of disappointed that even in these cases where they have good grounds to suspect doping, they can't get a positive test.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #663 on: 18 July, 2012, 07:47:40 am »
Nobody in tennis and soccer wants to actually catch dopers, so never, I guess.

Not true, at least in tennis, but those caught in tennis so far are minor players way down the rankings, and who in the UK (other than tennis afficianados) cares? My stepson is an ex-county player, follows the game very closely, and could no doubt give me details if I cared enough to ask. I guess the diference is that in cycling a lot of the top ranking (ie grand tour) riders are believed by many in and out of the sport to be doping. That level of suspicion just isn't there in other sports. because it's probably not true of other sports - few if any of which involve the constant high level physical activity of (road) cycling.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #664 on: 18 July, 2012, 07:50:43 am »
Did you look at the occupations of sportspeople in Operacion Puerto? That was a long time ago and I doubt that the high level doping in other sports has diminished?
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #665 on: 18 July, 2012, 08:01:13 am »
Nope, but you referred to tennis, of which I have a little knowledge, and that's what my answer was about. The rest was pure conjecture (on my part) - as is (IMO) most talk about doping on these fora  ;)
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #666 on: 18 July, 2012, 08:17:30 am »
There were soccer and tennis players in Operation Puerto, about half of the clients of the doping operation were cyclists. If you don't look, you don't find, don't prosecute and you can then proclaim that <your sport> is clean.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Steph

  • Fast. Fast and bulbous. But fluffy.
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #667 on: 18 July, 2012, 09:16:18 am »
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/3176004.stm

There are others.

Back to the Tour, I was in France for a week, and read the local papers each day. Oddly, the Tour was dominated by Evans, the Schleck in question and a few other French, Eastern European and Benelux riders. I wasn't informed if any Brits were riding, or rather not unless I looked at the general classification table. I have just read Liberation's on-line edition, and in there they appear to slag off the Sky team for being too 'mechanical'in their approach, and they long for the return of (long list of adjectives) party people. Real cyclists, heroes, perhaps like Richard Virenq.....oops.
Mae angen arnaf i byw, a fe fydda'i

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Tour de France 2012
« Reply #668 on: 18 July, 2012, 09:37:08 am »
Doping is rife in golf, baseball, American football, association football, swimming, tennis... And plenty of other sports.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #669 on: 18 July, 2012, 09:52:13 am »
Sky's whole style is highly technical, they've left no stone unturned to get where they are. I was on holiday last week with a top sports physio, and she'd given Sky a talk on musculo-skeletal issues. I had to spend some time explaining cycle racing tactics, and why some riders might benefit from upper body development and others might not.
This morning Bradley was on the radio saying that he knew exactly what the had to do, which was to produce 400 watts on every critical climb. I know what that means, and I know why it's a good way of managing the anxiety of the man in Yellow, breaking the problem down into doable segments. But it is nearer to a turbo trainer race than to a swashbuckling spectacle. Barring the unpredicted, the climax of this Tour is the final TT, which is like watching paint dry for the average casual viewer. I'll be at the 24 hour myself, which is like watching paint dry for a whole day, so I find it difficult to identify with the attention span of the average viewer, who would most like to see lots of suffering on steep climbs, or 10 seconds of a final sprint.

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #670 on: 18 July, 2012, 10:01:37 am »
So is ESL saying that Bradley Wiggins is the Geoffrey Boycott of cycling? ;)
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #671 on: 18 July, 2012, 10:18:53 am »
So is ESL saying that Bradley Wiggins is the Geoffrey Boycott of cycling? ;)

Pretty much. And if he's not careful, Chris Froome will deliberately run him out!
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #672 on: 18 July, 2012, 10:21:14 am »
What happened to the TdF 2012 topic about the race?

It was a rest day yesterday, on which the most significant story relating to the race was Frank Schleck testing positive for a specified substance. What do you expect us to talk about?

Anyway, D-day for Sky today. The excitement of the racing should drown out tangential talk. Squeeeeeee!  ;D

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

fuzzy

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #673 on: 18 July, 2012, 10:24:06 am »

Back to the Tour, I was in France for a week, and read the local papers each day. Oddly, the Tour was dominated by Evans, the Schleck in question and a few other French, Eastern European and Benelux riders. I wasn't informed if any Brits were riding, or rather not unless I looked at the general classification table. I have just read Liberation's on-line edition, and in there they appear to slag off the Sky team for being too 'mechanical'in their approach, and they long for the return of (long list of adjectives) party people. Real cyclists, heroes, perhaps like Richard Virenq.....oops.

However, if it were Europcar, Cofidis, FDJ BigMat or one of the other French teams that had developed this strategy and were benefitting from it by having their main (French) man in yellow and another French rider on the second podium spot, the French media would declare the strategy was being employed with panache.

LEE

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #674 on: 18 July, 2012, 10:26:59 am »
History may show that all previous "swashbuckling spectacles" were drug-fuelled.

Nibali's such attempts have all been reeled-in by SKY's constant 400 Watt approach.

Brailsford and team know precisely what a "clean" cyclist is able to do and therefore what their boys need to do to counter it.

I suppose it could be considered a bit "Boycottish" but it's in our nature to complain that we never win anything and then complain that, when we do win something, it wasn't won in the correct way.

I'm positive Wiggins could give it more on the climbs if he was 30 seconds behind the leader but why would he risk it from his current position? Of course any Wiggins attack would be a slow cranking up of the pace rather than a sudden sprint but I quite enjoy watching riders falling off the back of the SKY train as they crank it up and up and up...