Author Topic: Tour de France 2012 (Read 143845 times)

TimC · « **Reply #750 on:** 19 July, 2012, 05:56:16 pm »

Quote from: spesh on 19 July, 2012, 05:49:07 pm

Wiggins admitted to losing concentration once he saw that Nibali was cracking, and temporarily forgot about "all that performance crap". To me, it looked like Froome was trying to egg him on/ keep him going further up the Peyregudes climb, because Wiggo might have slightly overcooked it when they dropped everyone else. Note how Pinot and Nibali were starting to work their way back up to the Sky pair nearer the finish. Wiggins and Froome know what the deal is, this year is probably Wiggins' last best chance for the TdF, and he reiterated that he's happy to ride for Froome, so I'd imagine that Sky will have a plan for La Vuelta, learning from their mistakes last year, when they switched leadership roles too late in the race.

I think you're right, Spesh. I somehow doubt Wiggins will get another chance to lead a Grand Tour with Sky, though I'm sure he will win lots of other stuff. I could easily see the roles reversed next year. I can't imagine Wiggo will ride the Vuelta ths year; I expect he'll want sometime off after the Tour and the Olympics.

Rhys W · « **Reply #751 on:** 19 July, 2012, 06:10:19 pm »

Yes, I think he had a go at the Vuelta last year to salvage something after breaking his collarbone. This will be 4th yellow jersey this year, and Sky have plenty of talent wanting to be Froome's domestiques if they get the chance.

Dibdib · « **Reply #752 on:** 19 July, 2012, 06:15:53 pm »

What's surprised me most is that Froome has been able to keep up this level of performance. He's clearly strong, but I incorrectly guessed that he would be able to crucify himself to drag Wiggins through the Alps, then chill out through the Pyrenees and let others on the team pick up the burden. In contrast, Wiggins would need the "performance crap" to stay on the front through the whole tour, as well as keeping enough in reserve to chase down any threats if they arise.

Obviously that isn't quite what has happened, and yeah I've got to wonder whether if left to push on his own, Froome could have outperformed Wiggo. My guess is still not (as others have said, Sky have pretty much done the maths on everything) but we'll never know for sure.

jogler · « **Reply #753 on:** 19 July, 2012, 06:40:15 pm »

I do not care wether Wiggins or Froome wins.If a British cyclist wins it,riding in a British team,that's good enough.
Such a notion was preposterous 5 years ago.
AIUI a win would be 2 years into a 5 year plan.Makes another win not entirely unrealistic.

TimC · « **Reply #754 on:** 19 July, 2012, 06:58:40 pm »

Absolutely. 2 years into a 5-year plan, they look odds-on for a Brit 1-2. That is phenomenal! And they must be contenders for anything else they choose to attempt. What a change from anything that's gone before. Boring and efficient it may be, but ruthless crushing of the opposition is always my preferred style, and gives reasonable prospects for them being a long-term top-flight team.

Analog Kid · « **Reply #755 on:** 19 July, 2012, 07:15:26 pm »

I'm so excited I have to stop myselfv thinking about it - a Brit winning the Tour? - wow!

Fingers crossed the wheels don't fall off before Sunday.

Be interesting to see if David Millar ends up in the Cav lead out train on Sunday .

Oh and have Sky redefined "Tempo Riding" ? Can't remember seeing another team do it consistently UP hill.

C'mon Brad....

rogerzilla · « **Reply #756 on:** 19 July, 2012, 07:15:51 pm »

Quote from: jogler on 19 July, 2012, 06:40:15 pm

I do not care wether Wiggins or Froome wins.If a British cyclist wins it,riding in a British team

Bankrolled by a currently unpopular Australian/American media mogul

Peter · « **Reply #757 on:** 19 July, 2012, 07:17:35 pm »

Yes, that's always knocked a bit of shine off it for me, but it's still a feel-good thing.

Wowbagger · « **Reply #758 on:** 19 July, 2012, 07:22:21 pm »

I don't think he will be properly accepted by the French until he calls himself Ouiggeaux.

jogler · « **Reply #759 on:** 19 July, 2012, 07:27:55 pm »

Only a Frenchman will be properly accepted as a genuine TdF winner by the French.
The French reckon any other nationality winner is on the zoomzoomstuff.They are the world's worst sour grapes merchants.

Eccentrica Gallumbits · « **Reply #760 on:** 19 July, 2012, 07:33:27 pm »

Quote from: Paul Metcalfe on 19 July, 2012, 12:10:27 pm

Strangely the phenomenon of decrying British "winners" as non-British, because of their parentage/place of birth, only seems to target white athletes.

Is this because it would appear racist to use the same arguments against, for example, Linford Christie (born in Jamaica, to Jamaican parents) or Daley Thompson (Nigerian father)?

I think it's because Daley Thompson's mother is Scottish and as he kept winning, he was obviously British.

rogerzilla · « **Reply #761 on:** 19 July, 2012, 07:53:35 pm »

Quote from: jogler on 19 July, 2012, 07:27:55 pm

Only a Frenchman will be properly accepted as a genuine TdF winner by the French.
The French reckon any other nationality winner is on the zoomzoomstuff.

Not like Richard Virenque, their ~~most successful~~ temporarily successful rider of recent times, then.

citoyen · « **Reply #762 on:** 19 July, 2012, 08:11:38 pm »

Effectively neutralising the final stage ensures that they get an exciting finish - and come on, the final sprint on the champs élysées is one of the most exciting sights in pro cycling. If GC were still at stake, the final stage would be a much cagier affair.

Also, I want to see Brad playing a full part in the leadout for Cav. First, because he owes him one, and second, because it'll be good practice for the Olympics. You could add: third, the prospect of a Brit in the yellow jersey heading the peloton on the final charge down the champs élysées... I'm getting goosebumps just imagining it.

d.

TimO · « **Reply #763 on:** 19 July, 2012, 08:17:29 pm »

I guess it's now mostly just about staying safe until they hit the final line, but with the TT I suppose that to an extent, they can just open up and hammer it, so long as they don't use up so much energy that they haven't got anything left for the last day. Indeed, they can't take it too easy, or they could loose time to someone, that could be useful if something went wrong on the final run into Paris.

You can make lots of what-if's about whether Froome could have gone into Yellow, or for that matter whether someone else would have done if Froome wasn't helping Wiggins, but you really don't know what impact additional pressure would have on people. As it is, the chances are that Sky is going to get 1st and 2nd place on the podium for the GC, which is pretty damned spectacular.

Thomas Voeckler completely dominated the King of the Mountains today, somewhat impressively, making sure that Kessiakoff had no chance of gaining any more points than he couldn't stop him from getting. That was pretty spectacular as well.

Exit Stage Left · « **Reply #764 on:** 19 July, 2012, 10:25:01 pm »

Quote from: bobb on 19 July, 2012, 01:59:33 pm

Quote from: mcshroom on 19 July, 2012, 11:04:44 am
...petty anti-patriotism ... seems to me to be just as annoying.

^ That

Quote from: Paul Metcalfe on 19 July, 2012, 12:10:27 pm
Strangely the phenomenon of decrying British "winners" as non-British, because of their parentage/place of birth, only seems to target white athletes.

^ And that

I don't know why ESL has such an obbsession with this. No thread about bicycle racing is complete without it being brought up again. And again. And again

I have trouble with nationalistic pride because I'm at heart a parochial internationalist. I was brought up to abhor the national distinctions that brought about the World Wars, but to take pride in my local area. So I quite like headlines like this, http://www.wirefm.com/news/local/chorley-man-leads-tour-de-france/ obviously Bradley has been comfortable for the 10 years he has lived in the North West, and has even organised a sportive for others to share the training routes which have shaped a champion.

Quote

About the Ride With Brad Sportive August 19th 2012

Ride with Bradley Wiggins in Aid of the Bradley Wiggins Foundation

"Come and join me on a challenging ride through the stunning Lancashire countryside and experience the roads and climbs I regularly train on. This brand new event has been specially organised to help celebrate the launch of the Bradley Wiggins Foundation. I look forward to welcoming you all and riding alongside many of you on what will be a special day for all the family."

Bradley Wiggins CBE

http://www.bradleywigginsfoundation.org/site/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=42&Itemid=27

It's all good fun, claiming a piece of a champion, and everyone from The Daily Mail to the Ghent local papers will be taking a bit of Brad. But his team is as much Australian as British, with a touch of Norwegian. The technical part of it is based in Belgium, and the money comes from transnational high capitalism. The bit that interests me is 'Chorley Man Wins Tour de France' and I will treasure my souvenir copy of the Chorley Guardian.

Can anyone name the rider who was born in Great Britain who is riding the Tour?

mcshroom · « **Reply #765 on:** 19 July, 2012, 10:31:45 pm »

If you are so sold on internationalism, why such a hangup about birth location?

Veloman · « **Reply #766 on:** 19 July, 2012, 10:32:40 pm »

Daniel Martin

Born 20 August 1986, in Birmingham.

citoyen · « **Reply #767 on:** 19 July, 2012, 10:34:28 pm »

Quote from: Exit Stage Left on 19 July, 2012, 10:25:01 pm

Can anyone name the rider who was born in Great Britain who is riding the Tour?

Steve Cummings. Your point?

d.

citoyen · « **Reply #768 on:** 19 July, 2012, 10:35:49 pm »

Quote from: Veloman on 19 July, 2012, 10:32:40 pm

Daniel Martin

Born 20 August 1986, in Birmingham.

Of course, forgot about him. So that means neither Irish rider in the race was born in Ireland. Funny.

d.

Exit Stage Left · « **Reply #769 on:** 19 July, 2012, 10:36:26 pm »

Quote from: mcshroom on 19 July, 2012, 10:31:45 pm

If you are so sold on internationalism, why such a hangup about birth location?

I've already said that I'm also parochial. There's only one person riding the Tour who was born somewhere I can ride to without taking a ferry, or the Eurotunnel. Obviously I could fly, but that seems to be frowned on.

bobb · « **Reply #770 on:** 19 July, 2012, 10:36:48 pm »

There is nothing wrong with a bit of gentle patriotism. It is not the same thing as nationalism.

As for taking pride on your local area - what's the difference? That's just localised patriotism!

Anyway, your views on this are well known. I don't see why you feel the need to repeat them in every single thread in Racing.

Why not start a new thread on it? It would save polluting every other thread with this nonsense

clarion · « **Reply #771 on:** 19 July, 2012, 10:43:02 pm »

It is a bit dull. Yes, it's exciting that there may be not only a first British winner, but a one-two. Historic, even. But I think I would be equally impressed with any rider dominating the race like this with strong riding in his specialty and in his weaker parts of the discipline, so long as it wasn't Landisly outrageous.

I'm among the least patriotic or nationalist (though very proud of my region), but even I am finding this repeated nitpicking pedantry rather tedious.

Exit Stage Left · « **Reply #772 on:** 19 July, 2012, 10:43:25 pm »

Quote from: Veloman on 19 July, 2012, 10:32:40 pm

Daniel Martin

Born 20 August 1986, in Birmingham.

I must admit I'd missed that one,
It's almost as good as Michael Wright,

Quote

Wright was born in Bishop's Stortford, Hertfordshire. His father died in World War II and his mother re-married to a Belgian soldier. The family emigrated to Belgium when Wright was only three. He grew up in Liège.

Wright's first sport was football. However, when his stepfather died leaving the family short of money, Wright turned to cycling as a more lucrative way of exploiting his athletic talent.

His first language was French and, although he represented Great Britain at the Tour de France and several World road race championships, his English was limited. During the winter of 1967-8 he took evening classes to brush up his English in preparation for riding with the British team. In 2006, he told Procycling magazine that his English is poor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Wright_(cyclist)

It often seems that cycling is the sport for misfits, and that includes those who don't identify with a nation. Although being a Francophile helps.

TimC · « **Reply #773 on:** 19 July, 2012, 10:45:01 pm »

Quote from: Wowbagger on 19 July, 2012, 07:22:21 pm

I don't think he will be properly accepted by the French until he calls himself Ouiggeaux.

You owe me a fresh pint!

onb · « **Reply #774 on:** 19 July, 2012, 10:53:00 pm »

Its due to be a climbers tour next year ,Froome against Bertie , looking forward to it already.Think Froome may be cooked for the vuelta this year.