Cheaper buses, more passengers

[Cudzoziemiec]

What a faffy system.

Not really. I'm quite a heavy public transport system, and it happens to me about twice a year.

The chip card readers are by every door. Often one on each side of the door.

Failures to check it are rare. And when you do. You can still get the money back.

J

You're able to claim the money back because you're computer-literate, intelligent, able bodied, have internet access at home and work, and because you're familiar with the system through living there. Why should there be a need to reclaim money? If you fail to tap out here, you just get charged the single fare (currently £2).

[quixoticgeek]

On London buses that would be 1.65 x 4

Not to argue with the general point you're making, just a slight correction to the detail: the daily payg cap on London buses is £4.65.

The daily payg cap to cover all bus, tram, DLR etc is £9.60 for zones 1-3 (varies depending on which zones you're travelling in).

So a single tube run increases your limit by a fiver ?

I'd have to try very hard to spend they much on transport here.

J

[quixoticgeek]

This. And a convenience win too – not bound by timetables, routes and stops.

Just a short note. If your public transport system is working properly then services should be so frequent you never need to look at a timetable. You just walk up and there'll be a service in a couple of minutes.

After all there's no timetable for when the road outside your house is open for you to drive on it...

J

[citoyen]

So a single tube run increases your limit by a fiver ?

No, I believe the system is more sophisticated than that.

The people who really suffer are those who for whatever reason need to pay for their travel with cash - they can't take advantage of capped payg fares. There's a lot of work currently going on behind the scenes to address this.

I'd have to try very hard to spend they much on transport here.

That's on central government. The funding that has enabled the £2 bus fare cap is a token gesture. They could go a lot further if they had the will. And as already noted, they significantly cut TfL's funding in the latest deal.

[Kim]

After all there's no timetable for when the road outside your house is open for you to drive on it...

There was when we lived in the People's Republic:  You had to look up the sportsball fixtures in order to determine whether  a) you'd be able to weasel your way to/from the main road in a timely manner  and   b) whether there would be anywhere to park when you returned.

More crucially, it also determined the times when, in pedestrian mode, it was best not to risk being perceived as lesbionic.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Happy birthday! Here's free bus travel for a month!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-65690176

People living in Bristol and the surrounding area are to get free bus travel during the month of their birthday.

The new £8m plan, which will see eligible people given bus passes, starts in July.

[SoreTween]

And in about 10 seconds the local rags and anti-social media will be full of people born in February bemoaning the unfairness of it.

[Cudzoziemiec]

And in about 10 seconds the local rags and anti-social media will be full of people born in February bemoaning the unfairness of it.

I can’t think of a worse present.
A month on Bristols Buses!!
🙏

https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/8m-birthday-buses-scheme-criticised-gimmick/

A rare instance of a policy uniting Greens and Conservatives!

[fd3]

I imagine one of the fundamental differences between buses in the UK and the Netherlands is that in the latter they are run as a service for the public while in the former they are run as a profit-making scheme for shareholders.

You forgot to add "and this is why the UK system is superior, offering a better service at a lower price".

(click to show/hide)

because free market is better

[hubner]

https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/how-we-work/how-we-are-funded

Reinvesting in transport
We are committed to reducing costs and reinvesting all our income to run and improve services.

We are a public body, with no shareholders or parent companies, which means we can reinvest every pound of income in the transport network

For every pound we receive, around 80% is spent on the everyday running costs of the network and around 20% on renewing and improving it for the future.

Well, the firms actually running the buses and trains in London are certainly private profit making companies with shareholders, so the above is misleading and dishonest.

[Kim]

https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/how-we-work/how-we-are-funded

Reinvesting in transport
We are committed to reducing costs and reinvesting all our income to run and improve services.

We are a public body, with no shareholders or parent companies, which means we can reinvest every pound of income in the transport network

For every pound we receive, around 80% is spent on the everyday running costs of the network and around 20% on renewing and improving it for the future.

Well, the firms actually running the buses and trains in London are certainly private profit making companies with shareholders, so the above is misleading and dishonest.

It's always tricky where to draw that line.  You probably wouldn't think it unreasonable for TFL to buy computers or paper towels or concrete or diesel from for-profit companies, if only on the no-ethical-consumption-under-capitalism principle.  But when it's a fundamental part of the business, it does seem irksome.

See also: NHS.

[Wowbagger]

I’ve had my Old Buggers’ Bus Pass for something over 3 years. I have used it only once - after a very good walk from Hope to Castleton via Hollins Cross last September. It was a Sheffield service that took me back to Hope.

I have never used it in Saarfend. Firstly, when I travel around the borough my first choice is bike. It’s quick and reliable. Secondly, I am unfamiliar with all the local services, so have no confidence that they will actually work.

The road I live in has bus stops but no buses, thanks to Tory cuts* quite some years ago. Indeed, last summer some road repairs were carried out near our house and I watched a couple of blokes carefully erect “BUS STOP SUSPENDED” signs and put in temporary bus stops elsewhere and only when they had finished did I tell them that there were no buses using those stops in any case.

*Labour cuts are also available but not so frequent

[quixoticgeek]

The road I live in has bus stops but no buses, thanks to Tory cuts* quite some years ago. Indeed, last summer some road repairs were carried out near our house and I watched a couple of blokes carefully erect “BUS STOP SUSPENDED” signs and put in temporary bus stops elsewhere and only when they had finished did I tell them that there were no buses using those stops in any case.

*Labour cuts are also available but not so frequent

having issues with your n key?

J

[fd3]

Had to contain the rotfl as I am in public.

[Cudzoziemiec]

https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/how-we-work/how-we-are-funded

Reinvesting in transport
We are committed to reducing costs and reinvesting all our income to run and improve services.

We are a public body, with no shareholders or parent companies, which means we can reinvest every pound of income in the transport network

For every pound we receive, around 80% is spent on the everyday running costs of the network and around 20% on renewing and improving it for the future.

Well, the firms actually running the buses and trains in London are certainly private profit making companies with shareholders, so the above is misleading and dishonest.

It's always tricky where to draw that line.  You probably wouldn't think it unreasonable for TFL to buy computers or paper towels or concrete or diesel from for-profit companies, if only on the no-ethical-consumption-under-capitalism principle.  But when it's a fundamental part of the business, it does seem irksome.

See also: NHS.

Several years ago, pre-covid, I went to a talk by professional train nerd Christian Wolmar, in a town that was a pleasant 20-mile bike ride away. He was supposed to be talking about Crossrail but he started by telling us of his failed attempt to become a Labour MP and even more failed attempt to become mayor of London and then making some general points, such as: outsourcing the peripherals is fine but outsourcing your core business means you no longer have a core business. He was referring to Network Rail outsourcing their signalling capabilities.

[diapsaon0]

I now have my OAP bus pass which I use mostly on the park & ride. the normal services are so irregular that the timetable should win the Booker Prize.  What we DO need is a cheap train system with more bike carrying capacity.  It's the best way to get people - especially commuters - out of their cars.  Even with my OAP railcard, the train fare is invariably more that the cost of petrol - sometimes more expensive than a cab.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

A train system that works would help.  So far this year I've had a week without a service (landslip), inability to get a train to Oxford for 2 months (collapsing viaduct), three weeks of reduced service (train engines couldn't cope with a new higher biodiesel content), travel to two of my four PBP qualifying rides disrupted by planned engineering works, and umpteen days of lost service due to strike action.

I used to travel about 20,000 miles by train a year, post-Covid with increased homeworking I expected it to be 12,000, but it is likely to be 8,000 this year and reducing because I can no longer plan for trains to get me to my destination in the UK. 

My bus service is once every two hours, which for a contiguous suburb in a town of 125,000 people explains why everyone uses a car.  If I want to get into the town centre, or catch a train, I walk.

[mrcharly-YHT]

My bus service is once every two hours, which for a contiguous suburb in a town of 125,000 people explains why everyone uses a car.  If I want to get into the town centre, or catch a train, I walk.

 

There is a more frequent bus service from right outside my house, and I live on a no-through road in a rural area on a remote scottish island.

[Jaded]

My bus service is once every two hours, which for a contiguous suburb in a town of 125,000 people explains why everyone uses a car.  If I want to get into the town centre, or catch a train, I walk.

Quite likely because every uses a car, it is a vicious circle of decline in public transport use, unless there is serious subsidising going on. (Ideally funded by squeezing the motorists more...)

[MikeFromLFE]

I live in a suburb of Leicester. At the top of the road we have three bus routes - two by Arriva and one by Stagecoach.
Until the City Council stepped in as part of the Bus Back Better plan the Stagecoach & Arriva buses travelled in convoy along the A47 every half hour - now they alternate every 15 minutes. The other Arriva bus is randomly timed.

The point is that they all go to the same place - the city centre or the next towns (Hinckley & Nuneaton) - if I want to get to either of the major hospitals, the big out of town shopping disaster zone, or any leisure facility it's a minimum of two buses.

Unless we have buses that take people where they want to go (desire lines?) rather than have routes based on historic travel patterns then of course people will take the easy option, and get in their cars.

[Jaded]

Trouble is that the motor car means that desire lines are now more massive desire meshes.

[Regulator]

My bus service is once every two hours, which for a contiguous suburb in a town of 125,000 people explains why everyone uses a car.  If I want to get into the town centre, or catch a train, I walk.

Quite likely because every uses a car, it is a vicious circle of decline in public transport use, unless there is serious subsidising going on. (Ideally funded by squeezing the motorists more...)

When I lived in Norfolk, there was one bus a day to Norwich...

...the one return bus per day to the village was that same bus, 20 minutes after it had arrived in Norwich!

[Jaded]

Did you really want to be in Norwich for longer than 20 minutes? 

[Cudzoziemiec]

Trouble is that the motor car means that desire lines are now more massive desire meshes.

Good point.

big out of town shopping disaster zone

Good phrase, which should be popularized.