Author Topic: [HAMR] Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)  (Read 450587 times)

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #175 on: 16 January, 2015, 11:46:36 pm »
Nope. Looks like he's going for a big one today. Good effort.

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #176 on: 17 January, 2015, 06:35:54 am »
Big indeed. 212 miles at just over 20mph. That is impressive as a one-off ride let alone as part of this challenge. Chapeau.

mattc

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Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #177 on: 17 January, 2015, 08:26:49 am »
To be honest, Tarzan won't get better riding conditions than he's got at the moment pretty well all year in the USA.
For me,  this is the big unknown. My knowledge of US climate is limited to just a few pockets of land.

Where will be the best riding conditions in July,  and how hot will it be?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Hummers

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Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #178 on: 17 January, 2015, 08:35:32 am »
I have to admit to being in two minds about the challenge from the US.   :-\


On the one hand, I am cross that they have decided to tackle this at the same time as Steve and (to my mind) seem to be deliberately using him as a pacer for their own ends/glory.

On the other hand, there was and is only ever going to be one record holder and having someone competing for the record the same time as you must spur you on.

Either way, I would like to say that I am quite even handed in my support for all three riders attempting this record........but I'm not.  :demon:

COME ON STEVE!!

H

IanDG

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Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #179 on: 17 January, 2015, 08:52:39 am »
'Tailwinds and Flats - 3 Bike - 3 Flats - glad Alicia Snyde was on top it for two of the three flats so I only had to change one on my own.'

Not so for Steve eh?

mattc

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Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #180 on: 17 January, 2015, 08:53:31 am »
Starting first has given Steve 2 advantages:
- a slight moral high ground. Most followers of the contest realise that Tarzan has taken the "sneakier" route. Like the rider in the breakaway that does no work at all until the final sprint,  some will always criticise him,whatever the result.
- There's a strong possiblity that Steve will be the first to break the record in 70 years. Even if he loses it 10 days later, that will feel amazing, and he may gain the more lasting acclaim. Who remembers the first rider to break Jens' figure for The Hour record??

Plus of course it's generating more publciity  :thumbsup:
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

hillbilly

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #181 on: 17 January, 2015, 09:03:04 am »
Kurt is doing nothing wrong, as it's all in the rules. 

I don't go with the implication he is somehow not playing the game fairly or is only where he is because he is exploiting advantages.  One could also flip it around and say Steve should have come up with a better strategy.

hillbilly

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #182 on: 17 January, 2015, 09:07:39 am »
There's a strong possiblity that Steve will be the first to break the record in 70 years. Even if he loses it 10 days later, that will feel amazing, and he may gain the more lasting acclaim.

Steve could also go on for the time to 100,000 miles record (although that would be an unofficial record).

LittleWheelsandBig

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Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #183 on: 17 January, 2015, 09:20:16 am »
In my opinion, if Steve is near or ahead of Tommy's year record, he will certainly go on to the 100,000 mile record.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

mattc

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Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #184 on: 17 January, 2015, 09:31:16 am »
Kurt is doing nothing wrong, as it's all in the rules. 

I don't go with the implication he is somehow not playing the game fairly or is only where he is because he is exploiting advantages.  One could also flip it around and say Steve should have come up with a better strategy.
I know that.

Just like my analogy with the road-racers: both strategies are in the rules, but fans will still judge one rider more kindly than the other.

Nevertheless, think through what Steve's "better strategy" would have been. To never declare an attempt until someone else had? Can't see that fitting round his life.
Or rescheduling by 20 days after Kurt's announcement? That could lead to ludicrous spiralling gamesmanship.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

IanDG

  • The p*** artist formerly known as 'Windy'
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Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #185 on: 17 January, 2015, 09:38:04 am »
Kurt is doing nothing wrong, as it's all in the rules. 

I don't go with the implication he is somehow not playing the game fairly or is only where he is because he is exploiting advantages.  One could also flip it around and say Steve should have come up with a better strategy.

Agreed, 2 riders at the same at the same time add interest and later in the year and it's going to be tense for all of us 'Steve' fans later in the year.

Rules is rules - accepted. My problems however are accepting the following:
The year record is now any 365 day period (previously a calendar year).
The option to switch between conventional and recumbent bikes (other endurance records such as LEJoG have separate recumbent/conventional records).

But that's what it is and I'll get over it.

Respect to both, I'm in awe of the mileage that both are clocking up day after day, but I'm with H and as he says Come on Steve!!!




hillbilly

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #186 on: 17 January, 2015, 10:04:11 am »
This angst feels to me people worrying Steve won't hold the UMCA validated record. 

Personally, I'm confident Steve will end the year ahead of Kurt.  In my gut, Kurt is going to have a wobbly spell because he is mixing in competitive events.  If he doesn't frazzle having done RAAM and goes on to get the record, fair play to him, that will be exceptional.

MarkA

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #187 on: 17 January, 2015, 10:14:45 am »
Steve always expected to fall behind Tarzan early on.  He is sticking to his strategy and at or slightly ahead of his upper target.  365 days is a long time and Tarzan is only on day 7.  Tarzan does not appear to be sticking to his strategy where he previously concluded he needed a rest day to recover. 

hillbilly

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #188 on: 17 January, 2015, 10:18:28 am »
Just like my analogy with the road-racers: both strategies are in the rules, but fans will still judge one rider more kindly than the other.

Probably.  Plucky Brit and all that.  We really are a strange little country.  Lost in the romantic notion that there is a right way to win.  Bollocks to that, this is what competition and winning is about:

http://youtu.be/6PQ6335puOc

Come on Kurt and Steve.  May the strongest prevail.

hillbilly

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #189 on: 17 January, 2015, 10:25:38 am »
Steve always expected to fall behind Tarzan early on.  He is sticking to his strategy and at or slightly ahead of his upper target.  365 days is a long time and Tarzan is only on day 7.  Tarzan does not appear to be sticking to his strategy where he previously concluded he needed a rest day to recover.

I suspect it is because Steve has him rattled.  The psychology of it is interesting.  Steve will be an unknown quantity to Kurt, as they don't move in the same circles.  He probably didn't fully appreciate Steve really is up to the task of doing the miles needed every day. 

I am taking his pushing distances as a good thing for us that prefer Steve to prevail, as it makes it more likely Kurt will blow up.  You can't apply the same tactics to this challenge as you woild in other races - push too hard and you may struggle to recover adequately.

Steve's advantage in starting first is that he sets his own pace.  If he sticks to his plan, he dictates how much effort Kurt expends.  It may break Kurt.  Or it may not.  But either way Steve was in control and will know he could do little more.  Better than the tDF this  :)

mattc

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Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #190 on: 17 January, 2015, 10:30:16 am »
It is defintely not an attitude unique to Britain.

Across the world sportsfans judge their heroes on all sorts of attributes other than the raw results. It can be about style (on and off the pitch!).

Some love a passionate clueless tactician. Some love the boring-but-effective robots. Some value how their heroes play the game.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

hillbilly

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #191 on: 17 January, 2015, 10:32:23 am »
I guess.  Wiggo being a good example - as clinical and sterile a win as we might ever see.  But many like to think back to Cadel Evans, and the struggles he overcame to win in France.  In my eyes, both were great athletes and champions in their own way.

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #192 on: 17 January, 2015, 10:47:42 am »
By allowing riders to choose their start date, rather than having to start on 1st Jan, they have turned it from a Year record to a 'consecutive 365 day' record.

This has given Tarzan the oppotunity to use Teethgrinder's mileage as a target to beat.

Therefore, it ought to be allowable for riders to continue beyond the anniversary of their start, to give them the opportunity to acheive a higher 'consecutive 365 day' total.

Perhaps this is not desirable though, as it could turn it into a 'who declares/cracks first' competition.
If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is...

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #193 on: 17 January, 2015, 10:48:03 am »
In my opinion, if Steve is near or ahead of Tommy's year record, he will certainly go on to the 100,000 mile record.

It would be a shame not too.

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #194 on: 17 January, 2015, 10:54:19 am »
On the one hand, I am cross that they have decided to tackle this at the same time as Steve and (to my mind) seem to be deliberately using him as a pacer for their own ends/glory.

Tis the nature of the cycling beast though isn't it? And at the rate Kurt is riding in beautiful Florida [who wouldn't start there? in January?] it's not going to last very long. It won't be long before he has more miles on the clock than Steve and days in hand. Even if he gets close to Steve then decides to pull back a bit, biding his time, that's a well dangerous game to play in an event with such huge longevity and what lies ahead is the unknown. If he carries on as he is and goes ahead, then he's in the driving seat, but that's a seat with nobody to follow. Never mind what anybody else is doing, just do what needs to be done.

It's worth remembering that after today Steve will still have about 93% of the challenge left to complete, and Kurt 98%. Somewhere down the line, they'll both be in new territory where they will have ridden further than they've ever ridden before without any kind of recovery. That's when the whole thing will really start to kick in.

And the recumbent thing is interesting, because I'd have thought that with careful planning in terms of roads, conditions in the USA, if miles is your main objective, and you can ride where the hell you like, and you're going to ride recumbent at some point, then ride the damn thing from the beginning. My very limited experience switching between the two tells me that the two ways of riding in terms of muscle groups are not perfectly interchangeable. Unless he's looking to ride into a monstrous head wind for a month, then I can't see what advantage he'll gain really by switching like that.

What fascinating times we live in  :)
Garry Broad

Jack_P

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Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #195 on: 17 January, 2015, 10:56:51 am »
Both Steve and Tarzan appear to have what it takes to fight to the end.
Could this lead to the crazy situation in late December of both riders riding non stop until they drop.
If anything the competition element could make for an amazing December, with all sorts of support options from each riders supporters.
I Hope Steve breaks him before then  :thumbsup:


Chris S

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #196 on: 17 January, 2015, 10:59:26 am »
I thought Steve's only concern was with beating Tommy Godwin's year record. Any competition from others was a side-show, as far as he was concerned.

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #197 on: 17 January, 2015, 11:04:34 am »
If it comes down to riding continuously for the last month with 20 minutes sleep every 3 days in a bus shelter, I know where my money is...

Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #198 on: 17 January, 2015, 11:09:25 am »
I thought Steve's only concern was with beating Tommy Godwin's year record. Any competition from others was a side-show, as far as he was concerned.

I was thinking just that, reading this thread. For Steve my take is that it's a personal challenge for him to try and beat Godwins record, and it's from that that he will gain his satisfaction.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Jack_P

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Re: Tarzan.
« Reply #199 on: 17 January, 2015, 12:02:52 pm »
If it comes down to riding continuously for the last month with 20 minutes sleep every 3 days in a bus shelter, I know where my money is...
But would Kurt be better equipped with potentially an Rv loaded with bikes, food and support with his track record, and the weather will again be a big factor.