Author Topic: Danger! iPods!  (Read 19922 times)

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #25 on: 07 August, 2010, 12:52:28 am »
Personal stereos have been around for a while now.  That it's a shiny Apple product driving the headphones rather than a ubiquitous 80s cassette player shouldn't make the slightest difference in terms of your awareness of your surroundings.  It seems odd that there would be an increase in incidents.

Back in the days when I was regularly walking non-trivial distances or using public transport, I'd use a cassette and later minidisc player most of the time.  I'd simply look both ways before crossing a road, as I was taught to as a child, which is what I do even when I can hear unimpeded.  My partner removes her hearing aids (effectively giving her silence) when walking around outside, as the confusing monaural mush of traffic and wind noise is overwhelming and not particularly beneficial, and hearing aids prefer not to get rained on.  She uses the same looking-before-you-cross technique.  It appears that that has gone out of fashion.

Anyway, I'd have thought mobile phones would be more of a problem.  You're more distracted and your hearing is less obviously impaired.  They certainly seem popular amongst the pedestrians I have to take evasive action for.

I've never used headphones while cycling.  I'm not especially averse to the idea on awareness grounds, though I wouldn't bother in city traffic because the noise would drown out the music, but the practicalities of headphones that stay in my ears while moving around sweatily have thus-far thwarted me.  I don't see it as any different from using them as a pedestrian, or having music playing in a car.  No audio, no problem - as long as you're making decent visual observations.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #26 on: 07 August, 2010, 01:24:26 am »
I treat peds (whether I am cycling, driving or walking) as people who are likely to do unexpected things. Usually they disappoint me, but it pays to be ready for the odd occasion when they don't.

This is just another bit of the drip, drip, drip of anti-non-motorist guff and should be treated as such.
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #27 on: 07 August, 2010, 01:38:22 am »
I tend to find holidaymakers the worst for randomly walking into the road infront of me. I cycle up and down Cheddar Gorge most days (because I'm rubbish at hills and trying to do better), and at least 3 of them step out into my path without looking every single day, usually when I am doing 30mph coming downhill. I notice that the same didn't happen on my old bike that made a god-awful screeching noise every time I touched the brakes tho .. so I guess my bike is just too silent and the holidaymakers left their brains and road sense at home  ;D

I thought your chicken dance description was hilarious Wendy. We all know that having someone step out in front of us is more likely to result in serious injury of ourselves than the idiot that caused the accident, but having averted the disaster I think you have every right to laugh at their spack-attack  ;D

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #28 on: 07 August, 2010, 01:51:42 am »
I tend to find holidaymakers the worst for randomly walking into the road infront of me.

Agreed - tourists with cameras are even worse than mobile phone users.  They'll obliviously walk *backwards* into the middle of the road.

Fortunately they're fairly predictable in their location and obliviousness.

And I'm fairly sure the pingfuckit that the mechanism in my bell pivots around gave way while trying to gain the attention of a cluster of wayward tourists while riding through Oxford last week.

woollypigs

  • Mr Peli
    • woollypigs
Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #29 on: 07 August, 2010, 07:37:57 am »
She uses the same looking-before-you-cross technique.  It appears that that has gone out of fashion.
It has, in the last 15 off years I have only seen three parents teaching their young ones how to cross the road. One was clearly German as I overheard what mummy was telling the child, what yo should do before crossing the road.

The normal way I see now, is the parent dragging the child across the road at a random place on the road. The best one was a mum dragging two young kids a dual carriage way and then lift them over the barrier in the middle and then continue across the busy road. Around 75 metres from a crossing that is put in to help pedestrians.

I do cycle with music on and really enjoy it, but never loud. When a car, bus etc come right past me I can just about hear it. I have often stopped traffic, to much annoyance, because I have seen and heard a emergency vehicle long before any other road users. Sitting inside a tin with the radio on you can just about hear what is going on outside.

 
Current mood: AARRRGGGGHHHHH !!! #bollockstobrexit

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #30 on: 07 August, 2010, 07:41:44 am »
The trouble with the Green Cross Code is "Find a safe place to cross away from parked cars".

WHERE?
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

woollypigs

  • Mr Peli
    • woollypigs
Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #31 on: 07 August, 2010, 07:45:29 am »
Just like we teach cyclist, somewhere you can be seen and you can see. Which still can be between cars, on the outside of the parked cars. As long as you LOOK before stepping out.
Current mood: AARRRGGGGHHHHH !!! #bollockstobrexit

Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #32 on: 07 August, 2010, 07:54:25 am »
I think I should take a chill pill before I get in an accident or an aneurism, on the other hand it doesn't seem right for pedestrians to get away with this.

"Get away with this"????
There is no offence of jaywalking in the UK. Too many people hae watched too many US TV shows. I believe people in the UK have insisted on being read their Miranda rights too.

nicknack

  • Hornblower
Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #33 on: 07 August, 2010, 11:58:55 am »
I think I need some advice. On my commute home, there's a pedestrian crossing where the peds always cross through red.

Quote from: klaas
I fiter both left and right in order to get to the front quickly where I can RLJ.

Quote from: klaas
I feel perfectly free to RLJ

One rule for some...?  ;D
There's no vibrations, but wait.

Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #34 on: 07 August, 2010, 04:33:17 pm »
I'm not especially averse to the idea on awareness grounds, though I wouldn't bother in city traffic because the noise would drown out the music, but the practicalities of headphones that stay in my ears while moving around sweatily have thus-far thwarted me.  I don't see it as any different from using them as a pedestrian, or having music playing in a car.  No audio, no problem - as long as you're making decent visual observations.

I use headphone with a band that goes over my head. Those in the ear ones don't stay in my ears. I also have it at full volume, otherwise I can hardly hear it over the traffic noise and the sound of the wind rushing past my earholes.

Phones and cameras are the worst thing because they divert attention away from the road. I can understand tourists being worse for not paying attention too, if they're looking around. After all, it's what they came here for, to look at where they are.

Andyf

  • I would engage you in a battle of wits, but it appears you came unarmed.
  • I love my Specialized, and my Specialized loves me
Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #35 on: 07 August, 2010, 05:59:08 pm »
In my one year of cycle commuting in central london, pedestrians are the biggest danger.
Bus drivers are very aware, taxi drivers are mostly ok, private cars mostly ok.
Have hit one pedestrian and had lots of near misses
A few have had earphones in...............
I listen to music while cycling, but feel that i am more aware of whats around me.
yes i'm prepared to be disagreed with............................
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting: "What a ride!" - Brian Davies

Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #36 on: 07 August, 2010, 06:06:55 pm »
In my one year of cycle commuting in central london, pedestrians are the biggest danger.
Bus drivers are very aware, taxi drivers are mostly ok, private cars mostly ok. ...

I'd agree with that.  I have most issues in that sort of order, but of course the impact of a collision is roughly in the opposite order.  A collision with a pedestrian is a fairly high risk, but is likely to be one that both parties would walk away from (possibly a bit bruised).  A collision with an HGV on my route would be unusual, partly because I've picked it to avoid HGVs and PSVs, but I would come off very very badly, and the larger vehicle may not even notice.
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #37 on: 07 August, 2010, 06:42:13 pm »
I think I need some advice. On my commute home, there's a pedestrian crossing where the peds always cross through red. If a car or bus approaches they'll wait but cyclists they ignore. I got a loud bell and ring like crazy yet still they cross like blind wildebeest right in front of me. Not a few times a year but every single bloody day. It's driving me nuts. I'm attentive enough that I have never hit one of them but it's close about once per month. Sometimes, I think I should take a chill pill before I get in an accident or an aneurism, on the other hand it doesn't seem right for pedestrians to get away with this. I just ordered and AirZound (good deal on, just use Google). Is this the right thing to do?

I have this issue in London whenever I head up there for work.

My method is to slow down and find a safe gap in the pedestrian traffic, then as I approach it I yell "Oi!!!   I thought you were supposed to stop at red lights!"

That way I have dealt with the situation by slowing down and providing a warning, and I also I absolutely love the confusion on all their faces as they stop dead in their tracks and realise that it's a cyclist shouting at them the usual shout that is directed at cyclists*.





*I'd like to point out that I do stop for red lights, and also I find that London is the worst place for red light jumping cyclists.

red marley

Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #38 on: 07 August, 2010, 06:50:42 pm »
Yeah, but surely the point is that pedestrians are not required to stop at red lights.

If I knew there was a regular spot where peds cross as Klaas describes I'd slow right down and be prepared to stop and either wait, or weave very carefully through safe gaps. It just seems the polite thing to do and helps keep the blood pressure to comfortable levels.

Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #39 on: 07 August, 2010, 06:59:17 pm »
Indeed, it's simply bad practice to step out in front of moving traffic which is why I make a point of slowing and looking for the gap, rather than blasting through, and having found the safe space I use a warning of some sort to ensure the gap stays open.  The call of "stop at a red light" is something I find amusing, and also seems to work the best as you can see the pedestrians stopping whilst their brains process it.


I'm happy with the blood pressure and this sort of thing doesn't bother me.

If it was a regular occurrence on my commute, then I'd probably change my route to avoid it.

itsbruce

  • Lavender Bike Menace
Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #40 on: 07 August, 2010, 07:02:28 pm »
I would never wear an ipod while cycling; the directional information you get from traffic noise is so life-savingly valuable (that car I can hear is travelling away from me, but this monster truck is heading right up my arse!) and more useful than a mirror because it's constantly available information that doesn't distract you from the view ahead.  I have had ipod-wearers step out in front of me but I've had at least as many non-headphone-equipped idiots do that.
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked: Allen Ginsberg
The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads: Jeff Hammerbacher

Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #41 on: 07 August, 2010, 08:39:30 pm »
I would never wear an ipod while cycling; the directional information you get from traffic noise is so life-savingly valuable (that car I can hear is travelling away from me, but this monster truck is heading right up my arse!)

What i-pod do you use? I'd love my MP3 to be loud enough to not hear a truck up my arse but it doesn't come close to being that loud.

itsbruce

  • Lavender Bike Menace
Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #42 on: 07 August, 2010, 08:43:25 pm »
It's not so much the volume; the earphones are going to affect the directional component.
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked: Allen Ginsberg
The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads: Jeff Hammerbacher

Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #43 on: 07 August, 2010, 08:52:21 pm »
Hearing is a very poor sense for any directional information.  Not to be relied on, IMO.  Looking is what you need to do above all else.
Your Royal Charles are belong to us.

redshift

  • High Priestess of wires
    • redshift home
Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #44 on: 07 August, 2010, 09:16:12 pm »
Hearing is a very poor sense for any directional information.  Not to be relied on, IMO.  Looking is what you need to do above all else.

Your HF response must really be shot then.  Too late for you to benefit from earplugs.   ;D
L
:)
Windcheetah No. 176
The all-round entertainer gets quite arsey,
They won't translate his lame shit into Farsi
Somehow to let it go would be more classy…

Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #45 on: 07 August, 2010, 09:27:41 pm »
Hearing is a very poor sense for any directional information.  

Not so, in my experience.

When I suffered hearing loss on one side due to an ear infection, riding the Honda became an *interesting* if not slightly less than pleasant experience, causing me to do a significant amount of head turning / neck craning to compensate for the loss of information.

I found I was unable to ascertain exactly where 'stuff' coming up behind me to overtake was  coming from - I had a vague idea, but by no means the more accurate one I was accustomed to.

My M/C riding buddy's advice of "Well, just make sure nothing overtakes you", was spectacularly unhelpful  ::-)


itsbruce

  • Lavender Bike Menace
Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #46 on: 07 August, 2010, 09:32:07 pm »
Hearing is a very poor sense for any directional information.  Not to be relied on, IMO.  Looking is what you need to do above all else.

Your HF response must really be shot then.  Too late for you to benefit from earplugs.   ;D

I'm with redshift on this one.  Your ears can be fooled, sure enough, but it's still extra information, often useful and I don't see any reason for cutting it out.
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked: Allen Ginsberg
The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads: Jeff Hammerbacher

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #47 on: 07 August, 2010, 10:46:19 pm »
Since becoming totally deaf in one ear, my brother will not ride a bcycle on the road at all.
I don't think his balance was affected.
(The reason for this problem was never ascertained; it happened overnight in a fit 24 year old.)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #48 on: 07 August, 2010, 11:18:23 pm »
I gave a cyclist a bit of a shock today. Nothing to do with earphones or hearing. He simply wasn't looking where he was going and had wandered onto my side of the road right in front of me. It was a pretty quiet road which doesn't go anywhere much. Had I rung my bell or shouted he would have become aware of my presence earlier and not been taken by surprise so.
Presumably mounting an AirZound on your bike was 'deliberate', and as I understand from your post, if you had had the opportunity in this incident, you would have used it on this pedestrian. And shown us the video of it.
I can identify with this.  I only have a bell on my commuting bike, but when you have a bell, you ring it all the time, just because you can.
I have bells on all my bikes, more by default than by actual choice. Sometimes I find them very useful. But I certainly don't ring them all the time, even when in India. OTOH the Little Pink Bike That Is Used By Everyone has a broken bell which cannot be deliberately rung, but which tinkles incessantly whenever the bike is in motion. I find it very annoying, but those who use that bike most often say they like it!
She uses the same looking-before-you-cross technique.  It appears that that has gone out of fashion.
It has, in the last 15 off years I have only seen three parents teaching their young ones how to cross the road. One was clearly German as I overheard what mummy was telling the child, what yo should do before crossing the road.
You haven't seen me, but I am the fourth. Little Cudzo even made up his own "road sign" for it.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Clandy

Re: Danger! iPods!
« Reply #49 on: 07 August, 2010, 11:33:55 pm »
Actually I think the problem with people walking into the road while using handheld devices has less to do with not being able to hear and more to do with looking at the device while they browse the web, play games, text, write emails etc. instead of looking where they are going. Not my problem , it's Darwin in action.