First Superhighway Fatality.

[spindrift]

Removing the flyover would just increase the traffic on the lower road.

[Jurek]

Removing the flyover would just increase the traffic on the lower road.

Indeed.
Making it brighter beneath the flyover, and (here's a truly radical idea, but stay with me) enforcing the law in so far as RLJ'ing at that location is concerned, might help.

EDIT - I never thought I'd find myself saying this as 'dwell' between signal phases is a pet hate - but this is one location where a lengthier dwell between phases, might actually be of some use - but then again, maybe not.
RLJrs appear to have scant regard for the colour red, whether it appears sooner or later.

[alexb]

^ I wouldn't call that cycle facility shit; I would call it non-existant.  This is one of the best types of cycling facility. 

The problem is that you are directed off a bus lane, down a narrow side street and then dumped onto this road, to get to a roundabout that you could have also approached by staying in the original bus lane and taking a left turn...

This route also runs parallel to an unmarked (from here), but perfectly accessible,  enormous, traffic-free drive which runs around the perimeter of Battersea Park.

A designer with courage would have taken the cyclists into the park, but the council refused to allow that to be marked out and the result is this:

[Cudzoziemiec]

To me the Superhighway in that photo looks like a Londinium example of something we have a few of here in "Britains' First Cycling City" (that's Bristol): a route rather than a lane. A suggestion of a route that links common destinations, not necessarily with specific facilities, though usually piecing together quieter routes. But then again, maybe the London thing is different.

[andygates]

Routes have the advantage that the drivers get used to plenty of cyclists, without ad-hoc lines and kerbs popping up.

(not that Bristol has any lack of those!)

[Kim]

That flyover isn't nice, taking the roundabout below is scary. And going over like Jurek is much better, but getting up there at busy times is hard.

+1 to all this.

While relatively unintimidated by London traffic, there was a time when I lacked the fitness to get up the flyover at above wobble-speed.  The easier option of taking the roundabout was unpleasant and often fairy-infested.

[iakobski]

Or they can be shit like this section in Wandsworth

When it's clear, it's just blue cycing roundels

OK, I'll bite.

The alternative: a cycle lane on the left would be narrow and leave the right lane narrow. But it would say to drivers: there are two lanes, overtake cyclists HERE, even though there's a central island and you can't leave the recommended
space.

Instead you have a sign in the road - this says to drivers: Expect cyclists HERE in the middle of the lane.

Other options might have been: widen on the left, but then cyclists have to pull right to go round the parked cars. Or perhaps narrow the island but the whole point of the narrowing is to make it a single lane to aid pedestrians.

All things considered: peds, parking, cycling, I reckon that's a reasonable way to mark a cycling route within the constraints. The only issue is the railings, but they are set back far enough that you could be on the kerb stones and not actually be crushed by a lorry unless it mounted the kerb.

[Wendy]

I'm sorta with Jake - I'd hope the blue squares start to educate motorists that cyclists can and should often take the lane.  TfL even mentioned this to me in an email recently.

[spindrift]

I'm sorta with Jake - I'd hope the blue squares start to educate motorists that cyclists can and should often take the lane.  TfL even mentioned this to me in an email recently.

I've got the same on my commute, added recently, white bikes painted in the middle of the lane, along Thorpe Road. Similar schemes were trialled in Hackney and Cambridge:



Realistically, they're not going to remove the Bow flyover, and because of the incline it maybe makes more sense for a cycle lane to carry on below, across the roundabout somehow. Robin Wales says he doesn't want any cycle lanes in Newham so it's academic, apart from the family torn apart by the death of someone they love.

[gordon taylor]

Surely there are reliable records of where and when cyclists have been killed, so it should be possible to work it out.

I'm interested to know how many cyclists were killed at places that now have CSHs before there were any CSHs marked and operational.

I'm not sure that those figures are available. However, this source - from the DfT-  provides the most comprehensive casualty data that I've found.

http://www2.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/datatablespublications/accidents/roadcasualtiesonline/

You have to register to use it.

[teethgrinder]

Routes have the advantage that the drivers get used to plenty of cyclists, without ad-hoc lines and kerbs popping up.

They're jolly handy for navigation too. I've even chased after busses in London as a way of navigating. London is a total maze if you don't know your way around, like wot I don't.

Saying that, I'm glad that I've invested in a GPS.

[Ham]

This junction is uniquely pernicious because - unlike most other places in London - there is just about no way out of tackling it, one way or the other. From the A13 in the South, to Lea Bridge in the north (if you discount the underpass by Tesco which few know about) this is pretty much the only route east-west.

Traffic was always going to get worse with the Olympic construction, but most of what seems to have been done seems to have made life worse for cyclists. Let me review it from my perspective.

East West, approaching the flyover to go over (my normal route) - not much has changed. Not a particularly bad route, and the sound of traffic thundering up to you left and right as you approach the flyover always makes you wonder. One improvement dating back some time) is that it is now single lane over, which is better. Coming off the flyover, something is the new scheme is now causing a constant stream of traffic coming up from the roundabout below (maybe sheer volume? don't think so), so makes it more difficult to move to the left. Overall, fairly standard stuff without particular hazards. Incline  going up is noticeable, enough to put some off I would guess.

East West under the flyover - approaching the flyover there are two tightly packed lanes of traffic, no cycle provision. Entering the roundabout you now have the start of the supershit-highway, particular danger here of dodgy drivers shooting the lights etc, no improvement until you come off the roundabout where there is a segregated lane which works OK.

West East approaching over the flyover to go over is the same old same old, main problem is drivers overtaking and cutting in to turn off and brake. Once you hit the flyover, you have two lanes of traffic (not one like the westbound) and coming off you have much more traffic than used to be there, incapable of dealing with cyclists so they mostly ignore even though you may easily be doing 30mph+ at this stage. My technique is to match speed and drop behind a car into the left.

West to East under the flyover? No idea, I've never taken it, it always looks 100% shit. Any cycle lane which draws people down there is B-A-D in my book. I'm guessing, but that is where the death is likely to have happened.

The joke about the traffic capaity issue is that at peak times it is just solid, anyway. Going nowhere, fast.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Or they can be shit like this section in Wandsworth

When it's clear, it's just blue cycing roundels

OK, I'll bite.

The alternative: a cycle lane on the left would be narrow and leave the right lane narrow. But it would say to drivers: there are two lanes, overtake cyclists HERE, even though there's a central island and you can't leave the recommended
space.

Instead you have a sign in the road - this says to drivers: Expect cyclists HERE in the middle of the lane.

Other options might have been: widen on the left, but then cyclists have to pull right to go round the parked cars. Or perhaps narrow the island but the whole point of the narrowing is to make it a single lane to aid pedestrians.

All things considered: peds, parking, cycling, I reckon that's a reasonable way to mark a cycling route within the constraints. The only issue is the railings, but they are set back far enough that you could be on the kerb stones and not actually be crushed by a lorry unless it mounted the kerb.

A few days ago I was talking to someone who is generally in favour of segregation, and he was praising the way they do these routes in Paris, where he'd recently been. Central Paris has wide boulevards radiating from a central point with very narrow streets connecting these spokes. The narrow side streets are all one-way, but most now have exemptions for bikes - but instead of a painted cycle lane, they just have a bike symbol with chevrons pointing against the main traffic flow. It says "bikes are here going this way" without restricting cyclists to a narrow strip of road.

[Domestique]

The joke about the traffic capaity issue is that at peak times it is just solid, anyway. Going nowhere, fast.

Thats the bit that gets to me. I havent been a regular around that area since my days at Poplar Technical College in the early eighties. The traffic situation was the same then on the A13. Years and years of experts making it better 
Rip cyclist.

[Greenbank]

They're wider, bluer and tend to be a little better thought out (less likely to suddenly disappear) and have less road furniture in the middle of them.

To be fair to them there are a few places where they have made a big difference, usually because the road layout has changed from two cramped lanes (with a nonexistant or 0.5m wide cycle lane) to one wide cycle superhighway and one wide normal lane. The two obvious examples of this on my commute are going East on Grosvenor Road just after Chelsea Bridge, and East/North on Millbank just after Vauxhall Bridge; these two places used to be the bits of my commute I liked least and they are now so much less confrontational.

The cycle superhighways are also, at the moment at least and in my experience, much more likely to be respected than traditional green/red cycle lanes (hotspots of minicab parking aside)¹. I rarely ever see a car/vehicle straying into them on the bit of CS8 I use between Chelsea Bridge and Lambeth Bridge.

1. Cue torrent of anecdata.

[clarion]

I'd concur with your overview.

[bikey-mikey]

traditional green/red cycle lanes (hotspots of minicab parking aside  ....1. Cue torrent of anecdata.

I'm not a torrent, but in Plymouth on Sunday I started my ride back to Bristol, and chanced to go along the road from Laira Bridge towards Yealmpton, which was a dual carriageway with a cycle lane along the left side - just a white line, really...

On one section there were around 45 parked cars, and I got the feeling that they lived there and they parked there and had always done so, and the traffic authorities must know this, yet do nothing..

Most amusing was a section with approx 18 cars FOR SALE with the same white paper notice in the back window - god knows what Plymouth City Council are up to letting someone use the cycle lane as a car showroom  !!!

[Gandalf]

traditional green/red cycle lanes (hotspots of minicab parking aside  ....1. Cue torrent of anecdata.

I'm not a torrent, but in Plymouth on Sunday I started my ride back to Bristol, and chanced to go along the road from Laira Bridge towards Yealmpton, which was a dual carriageway with a cycle lane along the left side - just a white line, really...

On one section there were around 45 parked cars, and I got the feeling that they lived there and they parked there and had always done so, and the traffic authorities must know this, yet do nothing..

Most amusing was a section with approx 18 cars FOR SALE with the same white paper notice in the back window - god knows what Plymouth City Council are up to letting someone use the cycle lane as a car showroom  !!!

Was this definitely a cycle lane or just a single white line to mark the edge of the carriageway?

[bikey-mikey]

Definitely cycle lane - signs and bikes painted on the bits you could still see....  It was very early Sunday morning so they were all in bed

I will say that the actual design of the lanes, often with large white cross hatched protection to your right, is first class, but the policing of it - nod nod wink wink, I imagine....

One view -  note sign on lamppost    http://g.co/maps/fw8k4   

Another with three cars parked on it, and another blue sign....   http://g.co/maps/gyujy

and again   http://g.co/maps/jk57a

I could bore you...   http://g.co/maps/4tybr

Does anybody who pays Plymouth council taxes actually care about this?  Are the responsible ones all negligent?

[Gandalf]

Routes have the advantage that the drivers get used to plenty of cyclists, without ad-hoc lines and kerbs popping up.

They're jolly handy for navigation too. I've even chased after busses in London as a way of navigating. London is a total maze if you don't know your way around, like wot I don't.

Saying that, I'm glad that I've invested in a GPS.

Good luck with the GPS.  If it's anything like my Edge 705 you'll have succumbed to terminal boredom or hypothermia long before it has found a route in central London.

[teethgrinder]

Routes have the advantage that the drivers get used to plenty of cyclists, without ad-hoc lines and kerbs popping up.

They're jolly handy for navigation too. I've even chased after busses in London as a way of navigating. London is a total maze if you don't know your way around, like wot I don't.

Saying that, I'm glad that I've invested in a GPS.

Good luck with the GPS.  If it's anything like my Edge 705 you'll have succumbed to terminal boredom or hypothermia long before it has found a route in central London.

Well, I am a long distance specialist.

Actualy, I wouldn't trust that crazy machine to do my navigating for me. Some of the stuff it came up with when I was using it for the first time in France was comedy gold.
I do the route at home and just use the Garmin to keep me on that route. Much easier than stopping every minute to get the map out and check that I'm going the right way.
Even a staright line from where I am to where I want to get to is very handy on my GPS. I've learned not to use the "Goto" function the hard way. When I was in Guilford and used Goto to get to Milton Keynes, it sent me via Winchester!

[Salvatore]

When I was in Guilford and used Goto to get to Milton Keynes, it sent me via Winchester!

It knew you didn't like London, and gave it a wide berth.

Some people are never satisfied.

[teethgrinder]

When I was in Guilford and used Goto to get to Milton Keynes, it sent me via Winchester!

It knew you didn't like London, and gave it a wide berth.

Some people are never satisfied.

I easily managed to avoid London without the need to go as far west as Winchester. Guilford is about 80 miles from my home, Winchester is about 100.

[iakobski]

traditional green/red cycle lanes (hotspots of minicab parking aside  ....1. Cue torrent of anecdata.

I'm not a torrent, but in Plymouth on Sunday I started my ride back to Bristol, and chanced to go along the road from Laira Bridge towards Yealmpton, which was a dual carriageway with a cycle lane along the left side - just a white line, really...

On one section there were around 45 parked cars, and I got the feeling that they lived there and they parked there and had always done so, and the traffic authorities must know this, yet do nothing..

Most amusing was a section with approx 18 cars FOR SALE with the same white paper notice in the back window - god knows what Plymouth City Council are up to letting someone use the cycle lane as a car showroom  !!!

Nice looking cycle lane!

Unfortunately, without any parking restrictions, it's a perfectly good place to park. The little blue signs are just information, they don't imply any rights or restrictions.

As for the for sale signs, it's not really down to the council, but Trading Standards would be interested and probably prosecute, and HMRC would be interested to have his number too.

[bikey-mikey]

traditional green/red cycle lanes (hotspots of minicab parking aside  ....1. Cue torrent of anecdata.

I'm not a torrent, but in Plymouth on Sunday I started my ride back to Bristol, and chanced to go along the road from Laira Bridge towards Yealmpton, which was a dual carriageway with a cycle lane along the left side - just a white line, really...

On one section there were around 45 parked cars, and I got the feeling that they lived there and they parked there and had always done so, and the traffic authorities must know this, yet do nothing..

Most amusing was a section with approx 18 cars FOR SALE with the same white paper notice in the back window - god knows what Plymouth City Council are up to letting someone use the cycle lane as a car showroom  !!!

Nice looking cycle lane!

Unfortunately, without any parking restrictions, it's a perfectly good place to park. The little blue signs are just information, they don't imply any rights or restrictions.

As for the for sale signs, it's not really down to the council, but Trading Standards would be interested and probably prosecute, and HMRC would be interested to have his number too.

I didn't realise that they didn't automatically become 'no parking' zones, but I suppose if they are only pretending genuinely trying to look after cyclists, then that is what you get...