Author Topic: First Superhighway Fatality.  (Read 18765 times)

iakobski

Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #50 on: 27 October, 2011, 09:15:23 pm »
Absolutely. A cycle lane is often worse than useless if it hasn't got BOTH double yellow lines (or in a clearway) AND a solid white line to show that cars should keep out if possible*. I say "worse" because there are drivers who still expect you to use it even if it's full of parked cars. The one you posted was only painted in because the planners wanted to reduce the road to a single lane, not that they wanted to do anything for cyclists.


* note to the pedants, I can't be bothered to look up if it's should or must, and possible or necessary, but you get the drift....

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #51 on: 28 October, 2011, 06:50:14 am »
traditional green/red cycle lanes (hotspots of minicab parking aside  ....1. Cue torrent of anecdata.

I'm not a torrent, but in Plymouth on Sunday I started my ride back to Bristol, and chanced to go along the road from Laira Bridge towards Yealmpton, which was a dual carriageway with a cycle lane along the left side - just a white line, really...

On one section there were around 45 parked cars, and I got the feeling that they lived there and they parked there and had always done so, and the traffic authorities must know this, yet do nothing..

Most amusing was a section with approx 18 cars FOR SALE with the same white paper notice in the back window - god knows what Plymouth City Council are up to letting someone use the cycle lane as a car showroom  !!!

Nice looking cycle lane!

Unfortunately, without any parking restrictions, it's a perfectly good place to park. The little blue signs are just information, they don't imply any rights or restrictions.

As for the for sale signs, it's not really down to the council, but Trading Standards would be interested and probably prosecute, and HMRC would be interested to have his number too.

It is an offence to park cars on the public highway for commerical purposes (section147A Highways Acy 1980).  The Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005 (external link) also introduced the offence of "nuisance parking" where it is an offence for a trader to leave two or more vehicles parked on a road within 500 metres of each other where they are advertised for sale.

Report it to the police and to the local authority (if the vehicles aren't taxed and insured the council can seize them).
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor


Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #53 on: 28 October, 2011, 06:17:46 pm »
When cycling east-west or vice versa I've found going up onto the flyover a much, much safer option.

I've only ever used the Bow Flyover on FNRttCs, and even at gone 1am, it's still pretty busy, and I always feel the need to hit it at ludicrous speed, so that I'm better in the flow of traffic.

One of my colleagues regularly cycles over it on his commute (and he's a slower and less confident cyclist than me), a few years ago he was side-swiped by the rear of a bendy bus on the roundabout, destroying the thankfully unoccupied child seat on the back of his bike, so he views the flyover as a safer alternative.  Personally I'd be looking for a better route to these two possibilities, but I don't know the area, and he says that there's really no practical usable alternative.

The Cycle Superhighway's seem to have largely involved an expensive process of applying vast amounts of blue paint to the roads (often as others have said, first removing existing cycle lane markings).  It seems like it would have been far better if a few of the truly horrible junctions that some of the CSs either cross or tortuously avoid (like E&C) had had some of that cash spent on them instead, with some real improvements made to the junctions to help favour cyclists over motorised vehicles, but that doesn't seem to be a likely occurrence under the current regime.

It would be nice if sometimes something significant was done without requiring fatalities to occur on junctions first, but events like this recent one seem to be required before anything is considered, and even then nothing may come of it (look at Blackfriars for an example of that).

The Met are still looking for witnesses.
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #54 on: 28 October, 2011, 07:03:58 pm »
I've only ever used the Bow Flyover on FNRttCs, and even at gone 1am, it's still pretty busy, and I always feel the need to hit it at ludicrous speed, so that I'm better in the flow of traffic.

I've often waymarked that junction on the FNRttC.

Facing east bound traffic I have witnessed countless attempted left hooks and total misjudgements/impatience with those who are trying to get onto the flyover - at that time of night, the bulk of the eastbound stuff appears to be heading onto the junction underneath the flyover, for the A12 / Blackwall Tunnel Northern Approach - comparatively little of it finds its way onto the flyover itself.

Kim

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Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #55 on: 28 October, 2011, 07:58:00 pm »
Indeed.  Earlier in the evening, the approach to the roundabout eastbound is usually jammed solid, making it relatively straightforward to get onto the flyover.  The problem then becomes one of moving left across traffic accelerating off the roundabout, for which speed is a distinct advantage, while dodging the nasty and particularly badly-placed pothole in the left-hand lane (which I believe has since been repaired).

Westbound I rarely took the flyover, as it was usually too hard to achieve a safe speed to do the required lane change.  The main hazard then was dodging the mass of debris on the roundabout while not giving traffic mixed messages about which way you were going.

That the roundabout seemed to have a permanent coating of freshly broken glass says everything that needs to be said about the junction, really.

And yes, the A12 cuts through the area in such a way that there aren't any alternatives to that junction that don't involve a significant detour, especially if the greenway is still closed by the olympic works.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #56 on: 28 October, 2011, 08:17:52 pm »
I don't understand - does the cycle superhighway use the flyover?
Getting there...

Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #57 on: 28 October, 2011, 08:20:48 pm »
I don't understand - does the cycle superhighway use the flyover?

No, the superhighway goes halfway under and stops, flyover is safest IMO.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #58 on: 28 October, 2011, 08:21:32 pm »
So was the poor guy on the superhighway at all?
Getting there...

Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #59 on: 28 October, 2011, 08:27:04 pm »
So was the poor guy on the superhighway at all?

The original post said "... was involved in the accident on the roundabout at the Bow flyover ...", and the roundabout at the end of the Cycle Superhighway is illustrated as being mostly part of the Cycle Superhighway:



I suspect without further information, it's hard to say whether he was literally on CS2 or not, but he was certainly very close to it.

There's a small image and some text about the CS2 implementation at that roundabout here.
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #60 on: 28 October, 2011, 08:36:03 pm »
I don't understand - does the cycle superhighway use the flyover?

Nope.
It goes via the junction beneath it.

Not the way I'd choose were I going east - west or vice-versa.

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #61 on: 28 October, 2011, 08:49:25 pm »
I don't understand - does the cycle superhighway use the flyover?

Nope.
It goes via the junction beneath it.

Not the way I'd choose were I going east - west or vice-versa.

I would use (and have frequently used) the flyover.  Sod the roundabout....
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #62 on: 01 November, 2011, 01:44:20 pm »
A short article from the Evening Standard about this.

:(
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #63 on: 01 November, 2011, 01:56:31 pm »
Yes, picked it up from Diamondgeezer (http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2011/11/blue-monday.html) this has been sending shivers down my spine all morning:

"He may have been 58 but he was very fit and very road aware. He has not just decided to cycle to work - he has always cycled......He cycled 40 miles a day every day"

He and I must have been crossing paths in reverse directions.

Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #64 on: 14 November, 2011, 06:07:02 pm »
Sorry to drag this up again, but there is a piece on this on the BBC London news tonight 1830.

iakobski

Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #65 on: 14 November, 2011, 06:26:58 pm »

Oh Shit. There's been another fatality at the same spot. A tipper truck again.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-24009578-second-fatal-collision-at-cycle-route-roundabout.do

Mr Larrington

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Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #66 on: 15 November, 2011, 09:13:29 am »
I don't understand - does the cycle superhighway use the flyover?

Nope.
It goes via the junction beneath it.

Not the way I'd choose were I going east - west or vice-versa.

I would use (and have frequently used) the flyover.  Sod the roundabout....

+1.  I used it practically daily for about seven years when I lived in Leytonstone.
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spindrift

Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #68 on: 16 November, 2011, 12:31:22 pm »

Andrij

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Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #69 on: 16 November, 2011, 12:51:27 pm »
http://lcc.org.uk/articles/cyclists-fined-30-pounds-then-told-to-ride-around-killer-roundabout

Coppers fining cyclists who don't use the roundabout.

As I have commented elsewhere, it appears the local constabulary has picked up on Newham Council's 'enthusiasm' for cycling.  >:(
;D  Andrij.  I pronounce you Complete and Utter GIT   :thumbsup:

Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #70 on: 16 November, 2011, 01:10:06 pm »
http://lcc.org.uk/articles/cyclists-fined-30-pounds-then-told-to-ride-around-killer-roundabout

Coppers fining cyclists who don't use the roundabout.

The fine was for riding on the pavement, not for not using the roundabout.

I would guess there aren't any road markings or signs on this shared use path but is only indicated on the TfL cycling map.

From the above article (my bold):

Quote
Ms Swain said, "The police were waiting behind a pillar by the Porsche garage, and when I cycled past on the pavement they jumped out and fined me £30.

"I said it was too dangerous to cycle to the roundabout and back, and asked why there wasn't a safe cycle route.

"They had no response to that, but said it wasn't an excuse and that I'd be okay because I had a helmet.

"In the time I was there, three other cyclists were fined £30 each for riding in the same location.

"Now I cycle around the Bow roundabout every day; it's such a horrible road, and I really hate it."

LCC campaigns officer Charlie Lloyd said, "This is an example of extremely insensitive policing.

"We'll be contacting the Metropolitan Police Commander for Newham insisting cyclists are not fined in this location.

So it's OK to be knocked off and squashed and get seriously injured or die, just as long as your polystyrene wrapped head doesn't hit the ground at more than 12 mph or get hit by something else with the same force.

Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #71 on: 16 November, 2011, 01:31:20 pm »
http://lcc.org.uk/articles/cyclists-fined-30-pounds-then-told-to-ride-around-killer-roundabout

Coppers fining cyclists who don't use the roundabout.
Strewth !  This has got be good copy for the Beeb surely.
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her_welshness

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Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #72 on: 16 November, 2011, 02:53:55 pm »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/goPFgSqvYYE&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/goPFgSqvYYE&rel=1</a>

Jeez:
1) You get fined for not using the roundabout, and get told by police that it is perfectly reaonable to ride the route if you have a helmet, of course.
2) If you do cycle on that roundabout then it is proving to be dangerous and there has now been an official death on the CSH.
3) TfL are advising cyclists not to use the CSH to get to the Olympics.
4) Boris is now saying that HGV drivers are at fault, it has got nothing to do with the road design.

ULTIMATE FAIL.

Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #73 on: 16 November, 2011, 03:35:39 pm »
If this path really is shared use - and it seems to be, then why doesn't LCC grow a pair and organise a mass ride along it, and back again, and along it and back again.


Re: First Superhighway Fatality.
« Reply #74 on: 16 November, 2011, 04:12:13 pm »
4) Boris is now saying that HGV drivers are at fault, it has got nothing to do with the road design.

Boris is saying that, and yet he disbanded funding for the Met Lorry safety initiative, despite it finding serious safety faults with 100% of the lorries it checked?

Boris, you are either stupid beyond words, or you don't give a toss about cyclists.
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