Anyone else stupid enough to smoke, but lucky enough to of swiched to e-cigs?

[jsabine]

the WHO is an Unelected and unofficial organisation, funded in a large part by pharmaceutical companies,

Unelected, yes - just like the UN and the Department of Health. Unofficial - scarcely, unless you think that other UN organisations are unofficial.

Funded in large part by pharmaceutical companies - citation needed, but I call bollocks.

Google for 'WHO funding' and the top two results go into a fair bit of detail, agreeing that well under 1% of WHO funding comes from big pharma.

To set the record straight: Eighty percent of WHO's budget now comes from governments. For the two-year budget period 2010-11, 53 percent of the voluntary contributions came directly from governments that chose to go beyond what their annual dues require; 21 percent came from other UN bodies (such as UNICEF, UNDP, and UNAIDS) and other multilateral bodies (such as the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization); 18 percent from philanthropic foundations (such as the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, the UN Foundation, and the Rockefeller Foundation). Of the remainder, seven percent came from nongovernmental organizations, by far the largest of which was Rotary International for work on polio eradication.

For the entire year, just one percent came from private industry. And roughly half of that comprised a specific donation from local organizations in Japan to finance costs of a WHO office in Kobe. The other half came from pharmaceutical companies that directed their funds toward neglected and tropical diseases.

And the government money that they get is paid for by Governments that are lobbied heavily and receive funds from Big Pharma', Giant Tobacco companies and not to forget the Huge amount of money they get in from tax on tobacco.

And by construction companies. Banks. Oil companies. Retail. Motorists. Hell, even cyclists pay tax and that goes into government funds.

You said very specifically that the WHO is funded in large part by pharmaceutical companies.  According to apparently credible references it actually receives less than one percent of its funding from pharmaceutical companies.

I suggest you either i) show that those references are not credible, ii) produce credible references to support your assertion, or iii) accept that you were repeating fictitious allegations.

[Pedaldog.]

I may be repeating fictitious allegations, I genuinely do not know for sure and the link posted to the WHO finances shows I might be wrong, but I do hold with the fact that tobacco sales bring the government a lot more in taxes than they spend in dealing with the bad effects of smoking tobacco and the "Second hand smoke" problems. Tobacco even kills enough people early to save on state pensions and Welfare/Health costs.

[Pancho]

I'm a smoker. I've not actually had a fag for some time now - but have always had an e-fag around should I feel the urge. As I have a few times. I'm pretty certain I'd not be smoke-free without the e-cig, TBH.

[levitator]

I'm a smoker. I've not actually had a fag for some time now - but have always had an e-fag around should I feel the urge. As I have a few times. I'm pretty certain I'd not be smoke-free without the e-cig, TBH.

I've not waded through all the science stuff on this thread, but I think you're on the right track, nicotine is not 100% safe but it's got to be an improvement on all the nasties in tobacco smoke.  So keep at it!  You've probably bought yourself a few extra life-years already.

All I ask, is that you observe the same NO SMOKING rules as if you were smoking tobacco.  And try to convince other E-cig users to show the same courtesy.

[king boonen]

Question is then, Who would you accept studies from?
Are studies done by J.Random. Scientist any less valuable if he/she doesn't have a backing from the political types?

That's not the question, there is no question, the point is there are no studies.

The products should be assessed and licences by the MHRA. That means the companies do the studies, submit the evidence and the MHRA approves it. I'd be perfectly happy with that.


My brother and his wife use them. I'm kind of happy about that although they just use them so they can smoke indoors in places where they can't, they have not reduced their smoking.

What I don't want to happen is for an unregulated, unlicensed product to be allowed to be sold and used and is then suddenly found to be harmful, for the user or those surrounding them.

As far as I am concerned they are a drug delivery system and should be classed as a medical device and the liquids should be classed as medicines.

[levitator]

Tobacco even kills enough people early to save on state pensions and Welfare/Health costs.

I recall reading a news item about one country - Czech Republic was it? - which actively curbed anti-smoking publicity, because they wanted people to die younger - they were having the same pension meltdown as we're having here, now. Is there any truth in this?  I just hope there's been a Snopes debunk.

Anyway, this story prompted me to write a short story of my own - about a dystopia in which people were forced to keep smoking: in fact I conjured up a network of 'Smoke-easies' which citizens were required to visit for a few hours every day and smoke/cough their lungs out!  Needless to say, in this dystopic world, cycling or any sort of fitness activity was a capital offence...

Maybe I should publish one day....

[Pedaldog.]

They can't be regulated as Medicines because they make no claims to cure any illness and are used for recreational purposes.

The lobbying thing I mentioned about Pharma' by the way, I found an older link here... http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-19/glaxo-memo-shows-drug-industry-lobbying-on-e-cigarettes.html?utm_source=ECF+Active+Members+Opted-in.&utm_campaign=b0f75df295-E-news_Jan_2014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_22416810d6-b0f75df295-51457549

[Pedaldog.]

The medical profession say e-cigs are in no form a medical product as they are not a smoking cessation product or a  nicotine replacement therapy product, they say e-cigs are a recreational product because a product must treat some symptom or symptoms to be classified as medical.   
If the medical profession refuse to accept them as medical but the government insist they be regulated as such what happens then ?

[Pedaldog.]

More, I know it's about 6 months old, links to a Professional in the Industry, not a professor but concerned with regulation.

http://www.ecita.org.uk/blog/?p=445

[Pedaldog.]

About Juicy Vapor E-Liquid - Available in the UK only from Switch2.ecigs.com!

Juicy Vapor e-liquid is manufactured (AEMSA certified) in the USA from 100% US sourced ingredients. We believe their E-Liquid is among the best available today in terms of quality, and way ahead of the nearest rival in terms of the number of flavours available - presently over 900 and growing. Although importing from the USA means we have to charge a little more, we think you’ll find it is worth every penny. And remember, while it may cost a little more than some e-liquid brands, it still works out to be a fraction of the cost of cigarettes. 20 ml of e-liquid at £9.99 is equivalent to at least 200 tobacco cigarettes which retail in the UK at somewhere between £80 - £90. So why pinch pennies buying cheaper, inferior quality e-liquid?

At Switch2 we sell the “reduced PG variety”, with a blend of Propylene Glycol (PG) and Vegetable Glycerine (VG) being the principal ingredients. We believe that this mix works best in an electronic cigarette as the PG provides excellent flavour transfer and the VG helps produce thicker, denser vapour. Therefore it resembles the smoking experience of a tobacco cigarette by delivering a strong flavour and a good throat hit.

Of course to create all their delicious flavours, Juicy Vapor uses natural and artificial flavourings and colourings, and sometimes alcohol depending on the specific flavour. Your Juicy Vapor E-Liquid may therefore contain some or all of the following ingredients;

Propylene Glycol

Vegetable Glycerine

Distilled water

Natural & artificial flavours

Natural and artificial colours

Alcohol

Menthol Crystals (Menthol flavours)

Nicotine (You can choose not to have the nicotine!)

Now in case you are worried by any of those ingredients, you might like to compare the above to the chemicals that are found in a conventional cigarette. When you do, you will see why Doctors and other medical professionals have stated their belief that using an electronic cigarette is approximately 4000 times safer than smoking tobacco! Ready? Here is what you can expect to find when you smoke a cigarette;

LIST OF ADDITIVES IN CONVENTIONAL TOBACCO CIGARETTES:

(Source Wikipedia)

This is a list of 599 additives in cigarettes submitted to the United States Department of Health and Human Services in April 1994. It applies, as documented, only to American manufactured cigarettes intended for distribution within the United States by the listed companies. The five major tobacco companies that reported the information were:

American Tobacco Company

Brown and Williamson

Liggett Group, Inc.

Philip Morris Inc.

R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company.

One significant issue is that while all these chemical compounds have been approved as additives to food, they were not tested by burning. Burning changes the properties of chemicals. More than 4,000 chemical compounds are created by burning a cigarette.

cetanisole; Acetic Acid Acetoin; Acetophenone; 6-Acetoxydihydrotheaspirane; 2-Acetyl-3-Ethylpyrazine; 2-Acetyl-5-Methylfuran; Acetylpyrazine; 2-Acetylpyridine; 3-Acetylpyridine; 2-Acetylthiazole; Aconitic Acid; dl-Alanine; Alfalfa Extract; Allspice Extract, Oleoresin, and Oil; Allyl Hexanoate; Allyl Ionone; Almond Bitter Oil; Ambergris Tincture; Ammonia; Ammonium Bicarbonate; Ammonium Hydroxide; Ammonium Phosphate Dibasic; Ammonium sulfide; Amyl Alcohol; Amyl Butyrate; Amyl Formate; Amyl Octanoate; alpha-Amylcinnamaldehyde; Amyris Oil; trans-Anethole; Angelica Root Extract, Oil and Seed Oil; Anise; Anise Star, Extract and Oils; Anisyl Acetate; Anisyl Alcohol; Anisyl Formate; Anisyl Phenylacetate; Apple Juice Concentrate, Extract, and Skins; Apricot Extract and Juice Concentrate; L-Arginine; Asafetida Fluid Extract And Oil; Ascorbic Acid; L-Asparagine Monohydrate; L-Aspartic Acid; Balsam Peru and Oil; Basil Oil; Bay leaf, Oil and Sweet Oil; Beeswax White; Beet Juice Concentrate; Benzaldehyde; Benzaldehyde Glyceryl Acetal; Benzoic acid, Benzoin; Benzoin Resin; Benzophenone; Benzyl Alcohol; Benzyl Benzoate; Benzyl Butyrate; Benzyl Cinnamate; Benzyl Propionate; Benzyl salicylate; Bergamot Oil; Bisabolene; Black Currant Buds Absolute; Borneol; Bornyl Acetate; Buchu Leaf Oil; 1,3-Butanediol; 2,3-Butanedione; 1-Butanol; 2-Butanone; 4(2-Butenylidene)-3,5,5-Trimethyl-2-Cyclohexen-1-One; Butter, Butter Esters, and Butter Oil; Butyl acetate; Butyl butyrate; Butyl butyryl lactate; Butyl isovalerate; Butyl phenylacetate; Butyl ndecylenate; 3-Butylidenephthalide; Butyric Acid; Cadinene; Caffeine; Calcium Carbonate; Camphene; Cananga Oil; Capsicum Oleoresin; Caramel color; Caraway Oil; Carbon Dioxide; Cardamom Oleoresin, Extract, Seed Oil, and Powder; Carob Bean and Extract; beta-Carotene; Carrot Oil; Carvacrol; 4-Carvomenthenol; L-Carvone; beta-Caryophyllene; beta-Caryophyllene Oxide; Cascarilla Oil and Bark Extract; Cassia Bark Oil; Cassie Absolute and Oil; Castoreum Extract, Tincture and Absolute; Cedar Leaf Oil; Cedarwood Oil Terpenes and Virginiana; Cedrol; Celery Seed Extract, Solid, Oil, And Oleoresin; Cellulose Fiber; Chamomile Flower Oil And Extract; Chicory Extract; Chocolate; Cinnamaldehyde; Cinnamic Acid; Cinnamon Leaf Oil, Bark Oil, and Extract; Cinnamyl Acetate; Cinnamyl Alcohol; Cinnamyl Cinnamate; Cinnamyl Isovalerate; Cinnamyl Propionate; Citral; Citric Acid; Citronella Oil; dl-Citronellol; Citronellyl Butyrate; Citronellyl Isobutyrate; Civet Absolute; Clary Oil; Clover Tops, Red Solid Extract; Cocoa; Cocoa Shells, Extract, Distillate And Powder; Coconut Oil; Coffee; Cognac White and Green Oil; Copaiba Oil; Coriander Extract and Oil; Corn Oil; Corn Silk; Costus Root Oil; Cubeb Oil; Cuminaldehyde; para-Cymene; L-Cysteine; Dandelion Root Solid Extract; Davana Oil; 2-trans,4-trans-Decadienal; delta-Decalactone; gamma-Decalactone; Decanal; Decanoic Acid; 1-Decanol; 2-Decenal; Dehydromenthofurolactone; Diethyl Malonate; Diethyl Sebacate; 2,3-Diethylpyrazine; Dihydro Anethole; 5,7-Dihydro-2-Methylthieno(3,4-D) Pyrimidine; Dill Seed Oil and Extract; meta-Dimethoxybenzene; para-Dimethoxybenzene; 2,6-Dimethoxyphenol; Dimethyl Succinate; 3,4-Dimethyl-1,2-Cyclopentanedione; 3,5-Dimethyl-1,2-Cyclopentanedione; 3,7-Dimethyl-1,3,6-Octatriene; 4,5-Dimethyl-3-Hydroxy-2,5-Dihydrofuran-2-One; 6,10-Dimethyl-5,9-Undecadien-2-One; 3,7-Dimethyl-6-Octenoic Acid; 2,4 Dimethylacetophenone; alpha,para-Dimethylbenzyl Alcohol; alpha,alpha-Dimethylphenethyl Acetate; alpha,alpha Dimethylphenethyl Butyrate; 2,3-Dimethylpyrazine; 2,5-Dimethylpyrazine; 2,6-Dimethylpyrazine; Dimethyltetrahydrobenzofuranone; delta-Dodecalactone; gamma-Dodecalactone; para-Ethoxybenzaldehyde; Ethyl 10-Undecenoate; Ethyl 2-Methylbutyrate; Ethyl acetate; Ethyl acetoacetate; Ethyl alcohol; Ethyl benzoate; Ethyl butyrate; Ethyl cinnamate; Ethyl decanoate; Ethyl fenchol; Ethyl furoate; Ethyl heptanoate; Ethyl hexanoate; Ethyl isovalerate; Ethyl lactate; Ethyl laurate; Ethyl levulinate; Ethyl maltol; Ethyl methyl phenylglycidate; Ethyl myristate; Ethyl nonanoate; Ethyl octadecanoate; Ethyl octanoate; Ethyl oleate; Ethyl palmitate; Ethyl phenylacetate; Ethyl propionate; Ethyl salicylate; Ethyl trans-2-butenoate; Ethyl valerate; Ethyl vanillin; 2-Ethyl (or Methyl)-(3,5 and 6)-Methoxypyrazine; 2-Ethyl-1-Hexanol,3-Ethyl-2-Hydroxy-2-Cyclopenten-1-One; 2-Ethyl-3,(5 or 6)-Dimethylpyrazine; 5-Ethyl-3-Hydroxy-4-Methyl-2(5H)-Furanone; 2-Ethyl-3-Methylpyrazine; 4-Ethylbenzaldehyde; 4-Ethylguaiacol; para-Ethylphenol; 3-Ethylpyridine; Eucalyptol; Farnesol; D-Fenchone; Fennel Sweet Oil; Fenugreek, Extract, Resin, and Absolute; Fig Juice Concentrate; Food Starch Modified; Furfuryl Mercaptan; 4-(2-Furyl)-3-Buten-2-One; Galbanum Oil; Genet Absolute; Gentian Root Extract; Geraniol; Geranium Rose Oil; Geranyl Acetate; Geranyl Butyrate; Geranyl Formate; Geranyl Isovalerate; Geranyl Phenylacetate; Ginger Oil and Oleoresin; L-Glutamic Acid; L-Glutamine; Glycerol; Glycyrrhizin Ammoniated; Grape Juice Concentrate; Guaiac Wood Oil; Guaiacol; Guar Gum; 2,4-Heptadienal; gamma-Heptalactone; Heptanoic Acid; 2-Heptanone; 3-Hepten-2-One; 2-Hepten-4-One; 4-Heptenal; trans-2-Heptenal; Heptyl acetate; omega-6-Hexadecenlactone; gamma-Hexalactone; Hexanal; Hexanoic acid; 2-Hexen-1-Ol; 3-Hexen-1-Ol; cis-3-Hexen-1-Yl Acetate; 2-Hexenal; 3-Hexenoic Acid; trans-2-Hexenoic Acid; cis-3-Hexenyl Formate; Hexyl 2-Methylbutyrate; Hexyl Acetate; Hexyl Alcohol; Hexyl Phenylacetate; L-Histidine; Honey; Hops Oil; Hydrolyzed Milk Solids; Hydrolyzed Plant Proteins; 5-Hydroxy-2,4-Decadienoic Acid delta- Lactone; 4-Hydroxy-2,5-Dimethyl-3(2H)-Furanone; 2-Hydroxy-3,5,5-Trimethyl-2-Cyclohexen-1-One; 4-Hydroxy -3-Pentenoic Acid Lactone; 2-Hydroxy-4-Methylbenzaldehyde; 4-Hydroxybutanoic Acid Lactone; Hydroxycitronellal; 6-Hydroxydihydrotheaspirane; 4-(para-Hydroxyphenyl)-2-Butanone; Hyssop Oil; Immortelle Absolute and Extract; alpha-Ionone; beta-Ionone; alpha-Irone; Isoamyl Acetate; Isoamyl Benzoate; Isoamyl Butyrate; Isoamyl Cinnamate; Isoamyl Formate, Isoamyl Hexanoate; Isoamyl Isovalerate; Isoamyl Octanoate; Isoamyl Phenylacetate; Isobornyl Acetate; Isobutyl Acetate; Isobutyl Alcohol; Isobutyl Cinnamate; Isobutyl Phenylacetate; Isobutyl Salicylate; 2-Isobutyl-3-Methoxypyrazine; alpha-Isobutylphenethyl Alcohol; Isobutyraldehyde; Isobutyric Acid; d,l-Isoleucine; alpha-Isomethylionone; 2-Isopropylphenol; Isovaleric Acid; Jasmine Absolute, Concrete and Oil; Kola Nut Extract; Labdanum Absolute and Oleoresin; Lactic Acid; Lauric Acid; Lauric Aldehyde; Lavandin Oil; Lavender oil; Lemon Oil and Extract; Lemongrass Oil; L-Leucine; Levulinic acid; Liquorice root, Fluid, Extract and Powder; Lime Oil; Linalool; Linalool Oxide; Linalyl Acetate; Linden Flowers; Lovage Oil And Extract; L-Lysine; Mace Powder, Extract and Oil; Magnesium Carbonate; Malic Acid; Malt and Malt Extract; Maltodextrin; Maltol; Maltyl Isobutyrate; Mandarin Oil; Maple Syrup and Concentrate; Mate Leaf, Absolute and Oil; para-Mentha-8-Thiol-3-One; Menthol; Menthone; Menthyl Acetate; dl-Methionine; Methoprene; 2-Methoxy-4-Methylphenol; 2-Methoxy-4-Vinylphenol; para-Methoxybenzaldehyde; 1-(para-Methoxyphenyl)-1-Penten-3-One; 4-(para-Methoxyphenyl)-2-Butanone; 1-(para-Methoxyphenyl)-2-Propanone; Methoxypyrazine; Methyl 2-Furoate; Methyl 2-Octynoate; Methyl 2-Pyrrolyl Ketone; Methyl Anisate; Methyl anthranilate; Methyl Benzoate; Methyl Cinnamate; Methyl Dihydrojasmonate; Methyl Ester of Rosin, Partially Hydrogenated; Methyl Isovalerate; Methyl Linoleate (48%); Methyl Linolenate (52%) Mixture; Methyl Naphthyl Ketone; Methyl Nicotinate; Methyl phenylacetate; Methyl Salicylate; Methyl Sulfide; 3-Methyl-1-Cyclopentadecanone; 4-Methyl-1-Phenyl-2-Pentanone; 5-Methyl-2-Phenyl-2-Hexenal; 5-Methyl-2-Thiophenecarboxaldehyde; 6-Methyl-3,-5-Heptadien-2-One; 2-Methyl-3-(para-Isopropylphenyl) Propionaldehyde; 5-Methyl-3-Hexen-2-One; 1-Methyl-3-Methoxy-4-Isopropylbenzene; 4-Methyl-3-Pentene-2-One; 2-Methyl-4-Phenylbutyraldehyde; 6-Methyl-5-Hepten-2-One; 4-Methyl-5-Thiazoleethanol; 4-Methyl-5-Vinylthiazole; Methyl-alpha-Ionone; Methyl-trans-2-Butenoic Acid; 4-Methylacetophenone; para-Methylanisole; alpha-Methylbenzyl Acetate; alpha-Methylbenzyl Alcohol; 2-Methylbutyraldehyde; 3-Methylbutyraldehyde; 2-Methylbutyric Acid; alpha-Methylcinnamaldehyde; Methylcyclopentenolone; 2-Methylheptanoic Acid; 2-Methylhexanoic Acid; 3-Methylpentanoic Acid; 4-Methylpentanoic Acid; 2-Methylpyrazine; 5-Methylquinoxaline; 2-Methyltetrahydrofuran-3-One; (Methylthio)Methylpyrazine (Mixture Of Isomers); 3-Methylthiopropionaldehyde; Methyl 3-Methylthiopropionate; 2-Methylvaleric Acid; Mimosa Absolute and Extract; Molasses Extract and Tincture; Mountain Maple Solid Extract; Mullein Flowers; Myristaldehyde; Myristic Acid; Myrrh Oil; beta-Napthyl Ethyl Ether; Nerol; Neroli Bigarde Oil; Nerolidol; Nona-2-trans,6-cis-dienal; 2,6-Nonadien-1-ol; gamma-Nonalactone; Nonanal; Nonanoic Acid; Nonanone; trans-2-Nonen-1-ol; 2-Nonenal; Nonyl Acetate; Nutmeg Powder and Oil; Oak chips extract and oil; Oakmoss absolute; 9,12-Octadecadienoic acid (48%) and 9,12,15-Octadecatrienoic acid (52%); delta-Octalactone; gamma-Octalactone; Octanal; Octanoic acid; 1-Octanol; 2-Octanone; 3-Octen-2-one; 1-Octen-3-ol; 1-Octen-3-yl acetate; 2-Octenal; Octyl isobutyrate; Oleic acid; Olibanum oil; Opoponax oil and gum; Orange blossom water, absolute, and leaf absolute; Orange oil and extract; Origanum oil; Orris concrete oil and root extract; Palmarosa Oil; Palmitic Acid; Parsley Seed Oil; Patchouli Oil; omega-Pentadecalactone; 2,3-Pentanedione; 2-Pentanone; 4-Pentenoic Acid; 2-Pentylpyridine; Pepper Oil, Black And White; Peppermint Oil; Peruvian (Bois De Rose) Oil; Petitgrain Absolute, Mandarin Oil and Terpeneless Oil; alpha-Phellandrene; 2-Phenenthyl Acetate; Phenethyl alcohol; Phenethyl Butyrate; Phenethyl Cinnamate; Phenethyl Isobutyrate; Phenethyl Isovalerate; Phenethyl Phenylacetate; Phenethyl Salicylate; 1-Phenyl-1-Propanol; 3-Phenyl-1-Propanol; 2-Phenyl-2-Butenal; 4-Phenyl-3-Buten-2-Ol; 4-Phenyl-3-Buten-2-One; Phenylacetaldehyde; Phenylacetic Acid; L-Phenylalanine; 3-Phenylpropionaldehyde; 3-Phenylpropionic Acid; 3-Phenylpropyl Acetate; 3-Phenylpropyl Cinnamate; 2-(3-Phenylpropyl)Tetrahydrofuran; Phosphoric Acid; Pimenta Leaf Oil; Pine Needle Oil, Pine Oil, Scotch; Pineapple Juice Concentrate; alpha-Pinene, beta-Pinene; D-Piperitone; Piperonal; Pipsissewa Leaf Extract; Plum Juice; Potassium Sorbate; L-Proline; Propenylguaethol; Propionic Acid; Propyl Acetate; Propyl para-Hydroxybenzoate; Propylene Glycol; 3-Propylidenephthalide; Prune Juice and Concentrate; Pyridine; Pyroligneous Acid And Extract; Pyrrole; Pyruvic Acid; Raisin Juice Concentrate; Rhodinol; Rose Absolute and Oil; Rosemary Oil; Rum; Rum Ether; Rye Extract; Sage, Sage oil, and Sage oleoresin; Salicylaldehyde; Sandalwood oil, yellow; Sclareolide; Skatole; Smoke flavor; Snakeroot oil; Sodium acetate; Sodium benzoate; Sodium bicarbonate; Sodium carbonate; Sodium chloride; Sodium citrate; Sodium hydroxide; Solanone; Spearmint oil; Styrax extract, gum and oil; Sucrose octaacetate; Sugar alcohols; Sugars; Tagetes Oil; Tannic Acid; Tartaric Acid; Tea Leaf and Absolute; alpha-Terpineol; Terpinolene; Terpinyl Acetate; 5,6,7,8-Tetrahydroquinoxaline; 1,5,5,9-Tetramethyl-13-Oxatricyclo(8.3.0.0(4,9))Tridecane; 2,3,4,5, and 3,4,5,6-Tetramethylethyl-Cyclohexanone; 2,3,5,6-Tetramethylpyrazine; Thiamine Hydrochloride; Thiazole; L-Threonine; Thyme Oil, White and Red; Thymol; Tobacco Extracts; Tocopherols (mixed); Tolu balsam Gum and Extract; Tolualdehydes; para-Tolyl 3-Methylbutyrate; para-Tolyl Acetaldehyde; para-Tolyl Acetate; para-Tolyl Isobutyrate; para-Tolyl Phenylacetate; Triacetin; 2-Tridecanone; 2-Tridecenal; Triethyl Citrate; 3,5,5-Trimethyl-1-Hexanol; para,alpha,alpha-Trimethylbenzyl Alcohol; 4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-1-Enyl)But-2-En-4-One; 2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-2-Ene-1,4-Dione; 2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,3-Dienyl Methan; 4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,3-Dienyl)But-2-En-4-One; 2,2,6-Trimethylcyclohexanone; 2,3,5-Trimethylpyrazine; L-Tyrosine; delta-Undercalactone; gamma-Undecalactone; Undecanal; 2-Undecanone,1; 0-Undecenal; Urea; Valencene; Valeraldehyde; Valerian Root Extract, Oil and Powder; Valeric Acid; gamma-Valerolactone; Valine; Vanilla Extract And Oleoresin; Vanillin; Veratraldehyde; Vetiver Oil; Vinegar; Violet Leaf Absolute; Walnut Hull Extract; Water; Wheat Extract And Flour; Wild Cherry Bark Extract; Wine and Wine Cherry; Xanthan Gum; 3,4-Xylenol; Yeast.

Now which would you rather use for that satisfying smoke? Still worried about E-Liquid? We are not saying E-Liquid is good for you, but anyone can see that it is a whole lot better than smoking a cigarette! And when you consider the exciting and delicious flavours available for your electronic cigarette, isn’t it time for you to Switch2 ? Don’t delay, Switch2 E-Cigs today!

E-Liquid and Electronic Cigarettes are not intended as smoking cessation aids or devices. Rather they are sold as an alternative to tobacco cigarettes, intended only for existing smokers who don’t want to quit but who would like to Switch2 a cheaper, tastier, less harmful and less offensive method of smoking that is not subject to the smoking ban as imposed in the UK under the 2006 Health Act.

All E-Liquid should be securely stored, a cool dark place is best, and always safely out of the reach of children. E-Liquid and Electronic Cigarettes are not for sale to persons under 18 Yrs of age. If you are not already a smoker we strongly recommend that you remain a non-smoker and avoid both conventional tobacco and Electronic Cigarettes and e-liquid!

If you want to stop smoking altogether please consult your Doctor.

[king boonen]

The medical profession say e-cigs are in no form a medical product as they are not a smoking cessation product or a  nicotine replacement therapy product, they say e-cigs are a recreational product because a product must treat some symptom or symptoms to be classified as medical.   
If the medical profession refuse to accept them as medical but the government insist they be regulated as such what happens then ?

Citation?

Now in case you are worried by any of those ingredients, you might like to compare the above to the chemicals that are found in a conventional cigarette. When you do, you will see why Doctors and other medical professionals have stated their belief that using an electronic cigarette is approximately 4000 times safer than smoking tobacco! Ready? Here is what you can expect to find when you smoke a cigarette;

Either you need to stop that argument or I'll assume you are a shill and cease any discussion. I have already stated that they are presumed safer than cigarettes and almost certainly are, that is not to issue. The issue is that they are completely untested and could quite possibly have an effect on people around users, just like passive smoking. This needs to be proved false before they are allowed to be used in public in my opinion.

They can't be regulated as Medicines because they make no claims to cure any illness and are used for recreational purposes.

The lobbying thing I mentioned about Pharma' by the way, I found an older link here... http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-19/glaxo-memo-shows-drug-industry-lobbying-on-e-cigarettes.html?utm_source=ECF+Active+Members+Opted-in.&utm_campaign=b0f75df295-E-news_Jan_2014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_22416810d6-b0f75df295-51457549

They are a drug delivery system, they can and should be regulated, for users health as well. How do they differ from nicotine chewing gum? Or do you believe these should not be regulated as well?

As for the lobbying, you'll have to explain your opposition to the reported information in that link. It seems highly sensible to be honest.

More, I know it's about 6 months old, links to a Professional in the Industry, not a professor but concerned with regulation.

http://www.ecita.org.uk/blog/?p=445

Again, you'll need to explain the problems here as I'm at a loss.

[Pedaldog.]

http://www.ecigarette-politics.com/electronic-cigarettes-global-legal-status.html

Quote "They are a drug delivery system, they can and should be regulated, for users health as well. How do they differ from nicotine chewing gum? Or do you believe these should not be regulated as well?"

Many things that are unregulated could be classified as a "Drug Delivery System", coffee, coca-cola etc. Again, as in the stuff I linked to above, they failed to be classified as such, despite the Powerful Lobbying from Pharma' and others.
They are not a "Cure for Nicotine addiction" but an "Alternative and safer option to cigarettes".

There was a study done in USAlands, I really can't remember where I saw it listed, that said the effects of second hand nicotine from three hours in the same room as somebody using an E-Cig was roughly the same as eating three tomatoes. Can't give a citation at all there as it was only one that I was pointed as a few months ago and I don't know where it was linked from.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I'm a smoker. I've not actually had a fag for some time now - but have always had an e-fag around should I feel the urge. As I have a few times. I'm pretty certain I'd not be smoke-free without the e-cig, TBH.

I've not waded through all the science stuff on this thread, but I think you're on the right track, nicotine is not 100% safe but it's got to be an improvement on all the nasties in tobacco smoke.  So keep at it!  You've probably bought yourself a few extra life-years already.

All I ask, is that you observe the same NO SMOKING rules as if you were smoking tobacco.  And try to convince other E-cig users to show the same courtesy.

Seems sensible.

[levitator]

cetanisole; Acetic Acid Acetoin; Acetophenone; 6-Aceto.... [about 50 lines skipped] .....at Extract And Flour; Wild Cherry Bark Extract; Wine and Wine Cherry; Xanthan Gum; 3,4-Xylenol; Yeast.

You're not about to tell us you typed in that whole lot by hand, are you? 

...se Fiber; Chamomile Flower Oil And Extract; Chicory Extract; Chocolate; Cinnamaldehyde; Cinnamic Acid; Cinnamon Leaf Oil, Bark Oil, and Extract; Cinnamyl Acetat...

Damn!!  I like chocolate.  I'M DOOMED!

[levitator]

The medical profession say e-cigs are in no form a medical product as they are not a smoking cessation product or a  nicotine replacement therapy product, they say e-cigs are a recreational product because a product must treat some symptom or symptoms to be classified as medical.   
If the medical profession refuse to accept them as medical but the government insist they be regulated as such what happens then ?

This is the point of view which - although not exactly wrong - is something I'm afraid of, despite being the most diehard of anti-smokers (I've been getting plenty of stick on this topic over in the Grauniad's comment pages).

I would prefer it if ex-smokers really believed that the switch to E-cigs was helping them to keep off the nastier stuff.  There is such a thing as a placebo effect after all.  It bothers me if people put across the message that it's recreational, because I think there are committed giver-up'ers who don't want that label attached.

But I still insist that they go to where smoking is permitted, to puff their aerosol.  Isn't the Great Outdoors room enough?  For one thing it makes the no-smoking rule easier to enforce.  Also it's a matter of plain courtesy.

Just for the record, I have never smoked myself, nor has anyone in my immediate family: therefore I don't really know what anguish giving up, or trying to, puts a person through!

[menthel]

If no medical claim is made then they would not fall under medicines regulation. The maker would have to explicitly claim that it is used for smoking cessation before the MHRA would be involved. As long as they are seen as recreational with no medical claim then they won't be licensed. This is the difference between nicotine gum (the makers claim it aids smoking cessation) and e-cigarettes. As far as it being a drug delivery system, is this not the same as beer or normal cigarettes?

Personally I don't like any form of smoking and nicotine in itself is a nasty, dangerous and highly addictive drug, without considering the nasty excipients put in the mixtures. I also agree that it is anti-social to use the e-cigs in enclosed spaces as they still smell and I don't want your second hand nicotine or other crap thanks.

(If you have a look at previous posts of mine you may well understand why I can make the comments abovewith regards medicines!)

[Cudzoziemiec]

BAT have recently received a UK medicines licence for a nicotine inhaler, called Voke.
This is a different product from their e-cigarette, called Vype.
I don't know any details about the differences but I do know that BAT put them both in their 'nicotine' category of products (Nicoventures).

[Cudzoziemiec]

Apparently the next thing is heating tobacco, not burning it.

The principle on which HnB products have been based is that an external heat source vaporises the nicotine from what resembles a traditional cigarette, thereby avoiding the toxicants which result from combustion (this is in contrast to e-cigarettes which vaporise nicotine only in a nicotine-extract liquid). The quest to develop a serviceable HnB cigarette has played only one part in the history of the so-called ‘reduced harm cigarette’ but it is potentially the key piece of the puzzle, as if tobacco manufacturers cannot completely chemically eliminate the toxins which endanger tobacco consumers, HnB removes the combustion which renders carcinogens viable. 

One of the problems this faces is apparently shared with e-cigarettes -

speaking as a witness in a Montreal court in November 2013, Jeffrey Gentry Executive VP Science at RJR Tobacco made an intriguing comment on the drawbacks of the ‘not-burn’ aspect of these products: precisely because the product did not burn down, ‘there were no sensory cues that the product was progressing’. The intriguing element of this is that e-cigarette users regularly raise this as a failing of those products also - there is no way to know when they’ve had enough.

http://blog.euromonitor.com/2014/01/can-philip-morris-must-learn-from-the-mistakes-of-heat-not-burn-tobaccos-past.html

So, no satiation. Apparently. A bit like fast food... Have our vapers noticed this?

[Pedaldog.]

Clive Bates piece makes a lot of sense,

Over a thousand chemicals have been reported in roasted coffee: more than half of those tested (19/28) are rodent carcinogens. There are more rodent carcinogens in a single cup of coffee than potentially carcinogenic pesticide residues in the average American diet in a year, and there are still a thousand chemicals left to test in roasted coffee.
The causes and prevention of cancer: the role of environment (Ames BN, Gold LS 1998).

http://www.clivebates.com/?p=2197

[jsabine]

That's an extremely selective quote from an abstract which also contains the statement:

Epidemiological evidence indicates several factors likely to have a major effect on reducing rates of cancer: reduction of smoking,

I'd be very wary of relying on the Bates site - unsupported special pleading, as far as I can tell.

[Pedaldog.]

Sorry. I wasn't using that quote to Justify the E-cigs but more to say I was shocked about the amount if stuff in coffee. I put it here because it came from a link about e-cigs.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Sorry in advance, but we don't have a random smoking thread and I found it rather interesting that some regions spend over twice as much as others on smoking. It would be interesting to know why this was: they smoke more, prefer more expensive brands, cigarettes are  generally more expensive there, perhaps even (tenuous link to the thread!) lower prevalence of e-smoking.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/dec/05/how-much-do-different-parts-of-the-uk-spend-on-cigarettes

[Pedaldog.]

I don't understand the figures there, Cudzo'. A single pack of 20 cigarettes seems to be around the £8.50 mark so I assume they've taken the total cigarette spend in the area and divided it by the total of households, smoker and non smoker included.   I know that, at current prices for my brand, I would be spending around £15-00 a DAY at my previous rates. I am not totally Atypical!

[Cudzoziemiec]

Yes, it's the average across all households in each region. I think I was looking for too many possible variables and neglected the obvious major one of rate of smoking.  Still interesting why that should vary so much from region to region.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Apparently you can now get electronic cannabis. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/16/france-stub-out-e-joints-cigarette-ban They should call it weeed!