Anyone else stupid enough to smoke, but lucky enough to of swiched to e-cigs?

[Jaded]

The image of a powerful and manipulative industry simply doesn't correspond to reality.

Yet.

[Pedaldog.]

I disagree Cudzo'. "To Convince themselves it's harmless is bad"? Why is it bad when it is as near as dammit harmless?

This is just incorrect. What evidence us there that it is "as near as dammit harmless"? The best we can say is that its unlikely to be as bad for you as bad as smoking tobacco.

It impossible to judge one way or the other whether it is harmful or harmless until specific studies are done. And that will take years.

As I mentioned above there have been a lot of studies done, specific to aspects of the effects of Vaping.  They aren't widely known as it has always been seen as a bit if a Fad that Tobacco and Pharmacy hoped would go away.
 
Where's the evidence that it IS harmful, or is ut just that "I don't understand it so it must be Bad"?

[Pedaldog.]

And as for the addiction thing. Nicotine is the addictive part of smoking but the 4,000 and some nasty chemicals and "Stuff" is what kills. I just got back after being away from home for over 4 hours. Didn't take any Vaping gear with me and in the old days I would have smoked at least 8 cigarettes in that same situation and would never  dream of going out without a good stock of Tabs!

[red marley]

I don't think anyone is doubting that in your situation, e-cigs have allowed you to reduce your intake of the more damaging tobacco cigs.

My objection is a different. It is that the promotion of e-cigs has, quite recently, increased in intensity and is more actively trying to replicate the past advertising of tobacco cigs. In so doing it helps to (re)normalise tobacco in society. That includes present smokers, past smokers, kids and future smokers. Like most advertising, people tend not see an ad and consciously think I must buy product X (and if you think that is not the case, ask yourself why the tobacco companies so strongly oppose plain packaging, hidden displays and sponsorship bans). Instead it is about keeping the product in the mainstream, stopping if from disappearing from people's awareness and creating an emotional bond. The progressive bans on advertising and sponsorship have been successful in marginalising smoking in public and has had huge health benefits. The re-emergence of cigarette adverts on billboards, buses and newsagent counters is intended to reverse that trend. It is no surprise that as e-cigs scaled up in production though investment by tobacco companies that their promotion has become increasingly similar to the old fag ads.

[Kim]

The progressive bans on advertising and sponsorship have been successful in marginalising smoking in public and has had huge health benefits.

I thought it was the smoking ban?

[red marley]

Hmm. That might have something to do with it too (it's Friday afternoon and I'm tired).

[Kim]

Let's not forget the increased age for buying tobacco and the rise of PAYG mobile phones, either.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I'm not sure what the phones have to do with tobacco? But obviously it's all those things - however, without the progressive reduction in tobacco advertising (you - Kim - might not be old enough to remember tobacco advertising on TV, that was banned long before it disappeared from billboards and magazines) it's arguable we would never have reached a smoking ban in pubs etc. No politician is going to ban something which a majority of adults do, first you have to whittle those numbers down.

[Kim]

I'm not sure what the phones have to do with tobacco?

They're at least as cool and teenagers would rather spend their limited disposable income on them.  I believe the statistics show a surprisingly strong correlation.

But obviously it's all those things - however, without the progressive reduction in tobacco advertising (you - Kim - might not be old enough to remember tobacco advertising on TV, that was banned long before it disappeared from billboards and magazines) it's arguable we would never have reached a smoking ban in pubs etc.

I remember the Hamlet cigar adverts, certainly.  Same set of neurons that's got "Fly Fishing by J R Hartley" burned into them.

[Pedaldog.]

I do agree that the current state of advertising by the Big Tobacco and other large companies is something to be wary of.  The ones that advertise what is known as "Cig-A-Likes", the ones that are the same size and colouring as a real cigarette, are really trying to jump in and they seem to have the money as well as the Shameless lie capacity. The classic "200 cigarettes for £10-00" claim is total Bow Locks and the odd upside to that is that it is more likely to make people wonder what the fuss is about and turn back to tobacco. I know it will be forcibly regulated at some point but that is, in my opinion, simply for the sake of profit and nothing to do with Health bonus or scares.

[Jaded]

Renormalise smoking in countries it is controlled in, and at the same time using those markets to create economic manufacturing processes so that the rest of the world can also be targeted.

The tobacco industry has been one of the most evil, insidious and duplicitous industries ever. I see no reason why we should not expect it to carry on in that vein by whatever means it can.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Pedaldog and all you other electro-smokers, be careful you don't end up Gitmoed!

The pace of change is illustrated by the story of the hapless e-cigarette user travelling by coach down the M6 from Preston to London last year who found himself the focus of a full-scale terrorist alert. Passengers on the Megabus noticed smoke coming from his bag and thought they saw him pouring liquid into it. They alerted the driver who made an emergency call, armed police swooped, closing the motorway and causing a tailback that stretched for miles on one of Britain's busiest roads.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/no-smoke-without-ire-the-ecigarette-revolution-8994118.html

Some serious stuff in there as well, from the nature of nicotine ("a perfect drug") to tax, corporate ownership, renormalisation and vaping in class.

[SteveC]

My employer has recently decreed that e-cigs are to be treated the same as other forms of smoking at work; only in designated areas, never in cars on company business, that sort of thing.

(not sure it adds much to the argument but it shows how some organisations are managing this)

[Pedaldog.]

My employer has recently decreed that e-cigs are to be treated the same as other forms of smoking at work; only in designated areas, never in cars on company business, that sort of thing.

(not sure it adds much to the argument but it shows how some organisations are managing this)

Does that mean that they're forcing Ecig users into the same space as smokers, 2nd hand smoke etc?

[red marley]

That space being "outside", of which there is quite a lot.

[Pedaldog.]

So, Jo, does that mean that staff are encouraged to do something away from work and not punished for leaving the premises for a vape or are they expected to go to the "Smoke Room" with the SMOKERS?

[red marley]

I've no idea. You'll have to ask SteveC's employers.

It was more a comment on the fact that perhaps smoking (whether electronic or otherwise) outside isn't necessarily are great infringement of personal liberty and that there is enough outside to go round for tobacco smokers not to force passive  smoking onto others.

[finch]

I smoked since I was 14 , not truly heavy but over the years I've smoked a lot. I went on an ecig doofer 16 weeks ago and stopped the cigarettes entirely . 10 weeks ago I chucked the ecig as well.

Although I felt the ecig "worked" and stopped me smoking tobacco , I didn't want to swap one thing for another so I just changed the where and when so it was different from real smoking . Once I'd broke my habits I didn't need the ecig anymore , it did it's job basically

In the 10 weeks since I haven't had a single puff of a cigarette or an ecig , I hate to say this but it was a piece of piss and I feel bloody marvellous about it .

Shame my job is so shit

[SteveC]

I've no idea. You'll have to ask SteveC's employers.

At our site, the designated smoking space is indeed 'outside' and there appears to be no penalty on people going out for a smoke (or vape). (Although this has caused friction in the past leading to one person 'going outside to not-smoke' as she got fed up with how much time people were disappearing for.)

On other sites I believe things may be different.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Well done the finch. 

[andygates]

Fun fun... I've never been a smoker as I'm a wheezy sort.  But I do love a pinch of snuff - that's my nicotine hit of habit.  So I had to try one of these things to see if I could smoke it.

Yes, I'm the Gateway User

Anyhoo, it's rather clever.  Someone spent *hours* making the LED glow right when you draw.

I wonder what else you can put in the juice besides nicotine and custard flavouring?

[Kim]

I wonder what else you can put in the juice besides nicotine and custard flavouring?

Caffeine, ibuprofen and a hint of salbutamol.  It'll be an audax hit.   

[jsabine]

I've no idea. You'll have to ask SteveC's employers.

At our site, the designated smoking space is indeed 'outside' and there appears to be no penalty on people going out for a smoke (or vape). (Although this has caused friction in the past leading to one person 'going outside to not-smoke' as she got fed up with how much time people were disappearing for.)

On other sites I believe things may be different.

In a job a while ago, I started going outside for a stand - it wasn't that I resented the time others were spending, but I was missing out on the gossip and didn't have a clue what was going on with the slightly flaky office politics.

[Jaded]

In a role a while ago the MD smoked and the limited numbers of smokers in the office got more to go their way than the non-smokers.

[rabbit]

Interesting thread and something I have been pondering myself for a while.  I'm, overall, positive about the availability of Ecigs for current smokers.  I agree it's better to be puffing on just nicotine than a spewing load of smoke that gets everywhere and is full of tar, benzene and all the rest. 

However, the promotion of Ecigs is unsettling.  The appeal is very much unsettling.  I see billboards and nice packet designs everywhere I look.  When I go in the garage there is sooo much choice.  I just want to try one......but as an ex smoker, I know it would be a very slippery slope to addiction (although I doubt it would return me to normal ciggies, but then, what happens if you loose your ecig and someone says, here, have a rollie?) so I stay away.   

I'd tell people "won't someone think of the children" when in fact, I think I mean, "won't someone think of me - do you know how bluddy hard it was to give up the white sticks and now you are waving this under my ever addictive nose"  Some of us are weak.  Alcohol I never miss now (have been teetotal since 1999), but fags, that addiction never leaves. 

However, say the advertising wasn't so effective, the appeal and availability reduced.  They weren't waved under your noses every time you pay for fuel....then, would they be so effective at changing the habits of current smokers?  So many folks I know have pretty much stopped with real cigarettes now.  Surely that's a good thing? 

Torn in opinion, but biased because of my own addictive weakness.